I think a lot of people agree with this sentiment. The conundrum of course is that the fans are being led to believe something else.
Higher probability of Mooney getting contract extension than leaving early.
- Thread starter UR80sfan
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Missing the NCAAs has cost us millions of dollars. Miller was gambling on the assumption that in 10-year period, we'd make the NCAAs at least two or three times. Had we made it twice and lost our first game both times, we would have earned a total of about $2.4 million from the NCAA (assuming the A10's 75/25 unit split is still in place). That would have covered two years of Mooney's salary. Had we made it three times and win a game once, the total take would have doubled.
Instead, we've earned nothing and had to pay that salary ourselves or use donor money for it. Maybe donor money was going to pay it all along, in which case we lost out on$2.4 million or more that our athletic department could have used in many different ways. Even for a school like ours, that's not an insignificant sum of money.
Instead, we've earned nothing and had to pay that salary ourselves or use donor money for it. Maybe donor money was going to pay it all along, in which case we lost out on$2.4 million or more that our athletic department could have used in many different ways. Even for a school like ours, that's not an insignificant sum of money.
If this is true Eight Legger - and it might very well be, then our AD's need to attend some business classes. My point all along is that if you are willing to give someone a 10 year deal guaranteed at roughly 1 million a year, then you must be willing to pay that money to get out of the deal if it goes south (i.e. - we don't win enough). Of course the expectation is we would make the NCAA's more, but that is not a guarantee and if it doesn't happen - you must be willing to be pay to get out of this deal.
Its like a person buying a house beyond what they can afford. If in year 2 you need a new roof, and you thought by the end of year 2 you would have received a promotion or won the lottery - if that doesn't happen, you should have the money to get out and get the new roof - otherwise, you purchased a house you can afford.
I think UR had the money to get out of the Mooney deal, but simply did not want to. Mainly because can't think of a time in recent history where UR fired a coach under contract, and was willing to pay them out. And no one on campus is near Mooney's paygrade. Not to mention - all things considered, aside from winning and losing - Mooney is the ideal representative of the University. He is from Princeton, northeast guy, brings in good kids, is good for the University and Community - etc. etc. etc. BUT in my book - that should only keep you around so long. At some point - you got to win games.
Agreed. My point is just to illustrate why, if for no other reason but financially, this is an arrangement that needs to end. I'm sure we knew that we could pay for his entire contact, plus the extension, even if we never made the tournament. But I doubt we expected to have to do it that way, either, or we never would have given him the contract to begin with.
I get the feeling Eight that UR can afford it, but since Athletics are not the priority at the University - they do not want to explain why they are paying someone $3 million dollars (if you got rid of Mooney with 3 years left) to not work. If they did get rid of Mooney last year and paid him out - it would sway the conversation towards Athletics are significant at UR. Which is not something I think the University wants.
They are rolling the dice - and I think they will succeed because UR should have a good team this year and next year, that UR will at least make the NIT this year, maybe even NCAA with a better shot at NCAA next year. That will justify keeping him around as well as the extension he will need (I agree with it) to continue to recruit.
They are rolling the dice - and I think they will succeed because UR should have a good team this year and next year, that UR will at least make the NIT this year, maybe even NCAA with a better shot at NCAA next year. That will justify keeping him around as well as the extension he will need (I agree with it) to continue to recruit.
since we're talking about money, if he does well enough this year to warrant staying ... what the heck do you pay him? it's got to be a raise, no? you don't extend for less.
so unless we have a very surprising year, can you justify an increase to say $1.5 per vs a new up-and-comer for substantially less? I guess it's possible based on the current trajectory, but doubtful based on the end of the day return on the last extension.
so unless we have a very surprising year, can you justify an increase to say $1.5 per vs a new up-and-comer for substantially less? I guess it's possible based on the current trajectory, but doubtful based on the end of the day return on the last extension.
I don't see him getting a raise. I think we are pretty much maxed out per year there. Seems like we could just add a couple years at the same pay. Did he get a raise when we added a year a few years ago?
The ball is in our court. If we are foolish enough to offer him an extension, it will be on our terms. This is simple supply-and-demand stuff. If Mooney doesn't like the offer, he's free to go take a head coaching job somewhere in D3.
the only chance we offer an extension is if he has a big year. and if he's coming off a big year, he'll be in consideration with other schools.
could be right about the same pay, but can't just do a couple years with a 5 man class coming.
Meh. I wouldn't bank on that. What's a big year, making the NCAAs? On the heels of missing them eight straight, I don't know that he'll exactly be in demand for any jobs better than ours.
A couple years gets him through 2023. No need to go past that after this year. If we have back-to-back good years, then you extend again.
I believe right now his contract runs through the end of the 2022 season (season ending March 2022), which is 3 seasons including the season just about to begin.
If the team makes the NIT this year - I would expect no raise, but probably given a 2 year extension. If the following year UR makes the NCAA - then a decision will need to be made, either give him a raise and more years (probably to the 5-6 year extension mark) or just simply an extension with no raise and see if decides to leave.
If the team makes the NIT this year - I would expect no raise, but probably given a 2 year extension. If the following year UR makes the NCAA - then a decision will need to be made, either give him a raise and more years (probably to the 5-6 year extension mark) or just simply an extension with no raise and see if decides to leave.
If we give a 2 year extension to a coach after receiving a 10 year contract and 1 year extension on top who then proceeded to go the NCAA exactly ZERO times, then it is undeniable...Jabba the Hardt would be the most incompetent D1 AD imaginable.
I think this is simple, you can't extend a guy who isn't getting you where you want to be. Unfortunately, where I want to be and where the AD/University wants to be are likely different.
So I think it's entirely possible they would extend him without him making the tournament. It pains me to say that, but I think it's very possible.
So I think it's entirely possible they would extend him without him making the tournament. It pains me to say that, but I think it's very possible.
the 5 man class he's about to start recruiting doesn't even get here until 2021. if you're going to extend him, you have to extend him to 2025.
I'm not saying do it. but if we decide we want him here, we have to commit to him. 2 years doesn't help. recruits want to believe a coach is on solid ground and will be here for their career.
and if we don't commit to him, we have to commit to someone else. but at least though 2025.
I hear you, but Mooney does not have a lot of leverage right now. I don't think recruits would shy away knowing he's here at least two or three years. We got Burton and Wilson without a long window for the coach. I think we could add two years and extend through 2024. Then, if we have back-to-back good years, extend a couple more years. We really aren't talking that differently about it. I just don't think the extra year next year would make a lot of difference for recruits.
lol. I'm confident that won't happen again any time soon!
just saying that when the time comes, if we're not comfortable giving him the necessary extension to do his job, then we shouldn't give him any extension. do it right or don't do it at all.
just saying that when the time comes, if we're not comfortable giving him the necessary extension to do his job, then we shouldn't give him any extension. do it right or don't do it at all.
I have seen this done at other Universities and like the idea more than giving someone 10 years. You give them a 5 year deal with a rolling 1 year extension at the end of each year, which will be agreed upon based on performance and discussions at the end of each year. So in essence - if the coach does well, will always have a 5 year deal - if things start to go bad, then it doesn't extend and goes down to 4, maybe 3, etc. It keeps the term of the contract bearable, but also gives the coach at a minimum 5 year stability and likely more because if Mooney were to make the NCAA's in the next 2 years and we moved to this deal, I would assure him the first 2 years of the rolling extension are pretty much guaranteed as well. So almost like he is getting a 7 year deal in reality, but 5 years on paper.
Mooney has zero leverage right now. Him and his agent most assuredly don't want to have any conversation with Hardt with the words "contract" in it. If we have a good year this year, I have little doubt he and his agent will be pushing for some type of extension.
If we underachieve again, I fully expect Mooney and his entire staff to go hide in the same rabbit hole that they hid this spring and hope that when they emerge they all still have their jobs.
If we don't make at least the NIT this year, Mooney is gone. I have heard that Hardt said prior to last season to some donors that Mooney had 2 years to make the NCAA. So it might be NCAA or bust for Mooney this year.
If we underachieve again, I fully expect Mooney and his entire staff to go hide in the same rabbit hole that they hid this spring and hope that when they emerge they all still have their jobs.
If we don't make at least the NIT this year, Mooney is gone. I have heard that Hardt said prior to last season to some donors that Mooney had 2 years to make the NCAA. So it might be NCAA or bust for Mooney this year.
I have heard that too. The problem is Big Hat No Cattle. Those pretentious kind often talk out of both sides of their mouth.
I did wonder though if true & Mooney realizes it, that’s why Mooney said ncaa is reasonable expectation. Of course we have damn good team imo & it might just be that.
I'm confident that Mooney isn't making any tournament, but if he does, I would be on the phone to any desperate AD to take him off our hands. Let him be someone else's problem.
I would have gotten rid of him after last year. It would have been a good time to do it because with the roster we have coming back, if you hired the right coach and could limit guys leaving - this year would have been a transition year under the new coach (getting used to new system, new coach) and then next year - with the coach possibly bringing in one or two of their own recruits to mix with the leftover players - we could have been really good. Think of when Wainwright took over - he had Beilein players the first year, UR made the NIT, then the 2nd year - he still had the core of Beilein players, but added his own mix of recruits - most notably Daon Merritt and Gaston Moliva - which say what you about those two kids, they were significant parts of that NCAA team and run. I think even Moliva made All Rookie team?
But now that you have kept Mooney, you can't really get rid of him if he makes the tourney this year. And it is probably hard to get rid of him if they make the NIT and win a game or two. And you have to extend him in some way that makes sense to both sides. Rather than 10 years like before - I think you keep it short, but with a rolling option.
That is too sensible and damn so sad. This is the likely scenario and Mooney and his mediocrity will be here for years longer. The spiders will wallow in irrelevance as opposing coaches chuckle when they see CM keeps attempting his ancient schemes.
Very true, but his supposition is that there is no way we get rid of Mooney if he makes the tournament this year. Agreed, but I don't think you'd find many takers who believe that is happening this year. What happens if he doesn't make the NCAA with his self proclaimed "best class ever"?
The sad truth is that they keep him even with a mediocre season without any post season of relevance. Wins 17-19 games and its an improvement and hey, same kids back next year, so we have to keep him. And then the cry will be NCAA or bust in ‘21.
If it doesnt look like an NCAA season early on due to a couple CM special bad losses early, I for one am going to be hoping for a bad year again. Call me a horrible fan but if CM cant bring real relevance back to the program soon he needs to be led out the door, not given more chances.
