At this point, you have to wonder who will be here in the Fall. We have already lost 40% of our roster to unanticipated attrition since January.
Ford Gone
- Thread starter SFspidur
- Start date
At this point, you have to wonder who will be here in the Fall. We have already lost 40% of our roster to unanticipated attrition since January.
No way. All that would do is start a bunch of unnecessary rumors. How many more questions would follow if a coach said that? And, the next day and the next day, the same questions would be asked. No need to ever say that. Spiderman is correct in saying why open that can of worms. I don't know any coach in the country that would say "I don't think so" or "No comment" if asked about guys leaving. If I am a coach, I am 100% committed to my guys and they are 100% on my team until it is official they are gone.
Yep got it too. This staff is a bunch of mushed mouth, no passion, low intelect, low bball IQ, low on novel ideas, self important, resistant to change, mole planting on message board, mediocre basketball coaches. Got it.
Some of you guys (4700 and Oldie I'm looking at you) just don't get it. This isn't about the kid who is leaving in your eyes wasn't going to play anyway. Surely both of you are smart enough to see the big picture.
The big picture is a guy left who most likely was not going to play much and we now have an extra scholarship available. Seems like good news to me.
Seeing a kid not work out is never good news.
Sincerely wished he had made a splash with us. Hope he can at his next destination.
troll answer, big picture is Mooney can't keep a critical mass of good players to compete for A10 championships and NCAA opportunities. He gets a few very good players and has the STOP button enacted. Or self sabotages, or does something to stop success. That is the big picture.
Who recruited and signed the guy "who was not going to play much"?
The big picture is he is just one piece in a puzzle of multiple players leaving this year, as well as a large number of players leaving the last several years while the coach has no accountability and always remains for the next season.
40% of division 1 basketball players leave their school by the end of their sophomore year. Why do some of you think we should be the only school out there who doesn't have recruits leave early?
Everything is good news to VT4700. If Gilyard or Grant left tomorrow, he would spin that as some positive that we have another scholarship offer open and obviously they weren't that good since they played on a team that won 12 games last year.
Some of you complain about the negativity on this board, at least, our negativity is rooted in lots of facts, observations, and experiences over the past seven years and in particularly the last 12 months.
I get that negativity is annoying to some, but what is annoying to me is for the "truthers" always talk about the positives that WILL occur in the future, and then they don't occur, they shrug it off and just move the goal posts and the timeline down the road a little bit farther.
They basically just tried to reset an entire year on us and put off for now another year of any realistic postseason play for our program. And sorry, that is just a bunch of B.S. and there are a number of us and that number is growing, who just aren't going to take being lied to anymore.
I would love to talk about our new recruits, X&O's and the such and that is why I initially came to this board, but now it just a few Mooney loyalists trying to convince the rest of our fanbase, something that everyone deep down knows is just not true. I mean, my god, our own sports media department is basically not even trying to hype this crap anymore. Our program is a mess. We won 12 games last year, had a 40% roster turnover in the past 5 months, and brought in a bunch of guys who on paper are no where near the recruiting level that we had in the past (which was the reason we are in the position we are now, bad recruiting by Mooney).
Win now this year Mooney, take this team to postseason play (NIT or NCAA), or get the hell out of our program and let us try someone new.
I don't enjoy being the "Negative Nancy" about a program I love and care about deeply but I'm sure not just going to sit idly by and be fed a load of horse crap either.
Since you singled me out here, I will respond and show how what you said is nowhere close to accurate.
1. I have said numerous times we are in trouble if we lose Jacob, Nick, or Grant.
2. I have provided plenty of facts and observations to back up what I have said on here.
3. I have not reset and put off anything and have consistently said I think we will be pretty good next year.
4. What exactly am I lying about here on an opinion message board?
5. I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. Your minds are made up. That is fine. I am only sharing my opinion, and I find it amazing that a positive opinion and outlook about a school I would hope we all love and root for can rub so many people the wrong way.
6. If my opinion is horse crap, how is your opinion any different? Aren't they both opinions?
7. I am sorry posts on a message board from a guy none of you know bother some of you so much. It seems you might be trying to bother or upset me, but I promise you it is not working. This is a message board. Nothing more, nothing less. Get over yourselves.
Last edited:
No problem, Ulla. Just wanted to remind you in case you forgot.
4700 is new to these parts, seemingly out of the blue from no where just a few weeks ago to be the biggest Moonman cheerleader of them all, so I wanted to make sure he was well informed of some of the history of those of us who have been around longer than a month on this here message board. And Ulla, I'm still buying you that first beer at this get together 05 is planning. You are a diehard Spider and while I disagree with your prognosis of our basketball program, your consistent support of everything University of Richmond is quite admirable.
Thanks, 97, I'll drink to that. But then again, I'll drink to most anything. Go Spiders!No problem, Ulla. Just wanted to remind you in case you forgot.
And Ulla, I'm still buying you that first beer at this get together 05 is planning. You are a diehard Spider and while I disagree with your prognosis of our basketball program, your consistent support of everything University of Richmond is quite admirable.
VT - you say in point 3 we will be pretty good next year.
Without even knowing the schedule at this point - what would you define as "good" next year.
Right now - I am thinking over/under on wins next season is 14.5. Sounds like you would take the over on that?
Without even knowing the schedule at this point - what would you define as "good" next year.
Right now - I am thinking over/under on wins next season is 14.5. Sounds like you would take the over on that?
Rick,
Based on your post above, calling me out, that you believe all roster turnover is the same and all roster turnover is bad. That is just not a point of view that is even vaguely in touch with reality. I get that you have probably not seen Phoenix Ford play, whether in practice or otherwise. Why not rely on those who have seen him "play," to do the evaluation of talent levels?
To suggest that losing Phoenix is in any way a bad sign is utterly ....XXXX. (follow with things we can't say on this board). I am disappointed that Khwan and Buck are no longer with us (although I do not know if the team chemistry may actually improve without them). I am pleased to hear that Phoenix has decided to take his "skills" elsewhere. You, in theory, should realize that positive turnover is a good thing, but appear to have some kind of blind-spot. I guess like certain anatomical features, we also all have our opinions.
Based on your post above, calling me out, that you believe all roster turnover is the same and all roster turnover is bad. That is just not a point of view that is even vaguely in touch with reality. I get that you have probably not seen Phoenix Ford play, whether in practice or otherwise. Why not rely on those who have seen him "play," to do the evaluation of talent levels?
To suggest that losing Phoenix is in any way a bad sign is utterly ....XXXX. (follow with things we can't say on this board). I am disappointed that Khwan and Buck are no longer with us (although I do not know if the team chemistry may actually improve without them). I am pleased to hear that Phoenix has decided to take his "skills" elsewhere. You, in theory, should realize that positive turnover is a good thing, but appear to have some kind of blind-spot. I guess like certain anatomical features, we also all have our opinions.
I partially agree with you.
I think 100% of us are crushed or at least disappointed to lose Kwan and Buck. Maybe you didn’t want them as full time starters or wanted them used differently, but losing proven talent is always bad. I think it would go a long way to help constructive discourse continue if the Pro-Mooney crowd could admit this.
Your point about positive turnover is correct. However, I think the anti-Mooney crowd sees the losses of Solly, Friendsuh, and Ford as Mooney’s fault. Either he couldn’t figure out how to use him/keep him happy (Solly), or he wasted a recruiting spot/failed to recruit better on a player who turned out to be not good enough/not the right fit (Friendsuh and Ford). Though I think it would go a long way to help the return of constructive discourse for the anti-Mooney crowd to admit that a player moving on from the program because he’s not the right fit/not good enough (positive turnover) is both probably good for the player in the long run (finds a place he can really thrive) as well as the program by opening a new slot up for a new player (who hopefully will be an impact player).
I personally don’t think its completely fair to blame Mooney for all the turnover, as every coach at every level takes flyers on guys who may/may not turn into a contributor, and when they don’t, the player moves on (See: 40% of NCAA men’s players switch teams by the end of their sophomore year). However, I can see where they are coming from, and the argument that Mooney should be recruiting better, and when a player leaves because they weren’t good enough, it’s just another example of his failures.
I don't understand how team chemistry is better next year? Basically 7 to 8 new players coming to a program. They are freshmen it usually takes a whole year to learn the Princeton offense. I am going to say we win 14 games at the most next year. If we somehow win and make it to the NCAA. I might have to say its the best coaching job ever. I would say recruiting only gets harder the longer you stay out of the NCAA tournament.
Why would you think that tough academics would lead to roster turnover? I don't think any of the players we have lost early under Mooney were lost because of academics. Anyway, Davidson has the lowest roster turnover in the country. They are a pretty big outlier in that regard.
Here is the turnover in the last 4 classes for each A10 school:
Code:
Program Turnover
Fordham 16
Duquesne 15
UMass 13
Dayton 12
George Washington 12
SLU 11
VCU 11
George Mason 10
Richmond 10
Bonnies 7
La Salle 4
URI 2
Saint Joe’s 2
Davidson 0
Last edited:
How long did it take Grant and Jacob to get to be “pretty good”? Never know, it could happen again with some of our guys. Just never know.
Last edited:
How long did it take Grant and Jacob to get to be “pretty good”? Nevet know, it could happen again with some of our guys. Just never know.
Jacob was definitely quick. Grant was a RS Freshman (with some game experience previously). I love everything that Grant has done, but I think he benefitted from being around the team as much as he could during his non-redshirt freshman year, right?
B/C one of the crutches for the supporters of the coaching regime is that there has been difficulty with admissions leading to recruiting difficulties - which ergo, vis a vis has gotten us into the roster predicament we’re in now where we’ve recruited way too many kids in recent years who aren’t DI quality.
It would seem that Mooney ends up taking a disproportionate number of "flyers" that don't work out. The list is long.
I am hopeful of that, and certainly not against it. But, we have named a lot of guys over the course of the past 5 seasons who have not benefitted, unfortunately.
Ulla -- I ask this with all due respect, as a fellow Spider. I believe at one point years ago you had mentioned that you were a scientist, right? If my memory is indeed correct, how does your unbridled optimism match up with any scientific process that you have practiced in your career?
2011, If I am mistaken correct me, haven't all of those schools above UR changed coaches at least once in the past 4 years and the ones below us have had the same coach. One could argue that Richmond has the most of of all programs with coaching continuity.
Also, did include Solly in the"last four classes"?
In other words, like Jim Miller said on Bob Black's show, there has to be ALIGNMENT throughout the University. Davidson is to be commended.
I agree he takes more than I’d like. But, without the numbers being in front of me (so maybe you can correct me), it doesn’t feel like we are above the 40% average of roster departures within 2 years.
Granted, I would like us to be closer to Davidson than the NCAA average...
10 of the 14 A10 teams have changed coaches in the past 4 years, so yes. Solly was included in the count.
Last edited:
It’s not 7-8 new players ftr. We are bringing in 4
Freshmen and 1 transfer who won’t even be able to play. Maybe one more to replace Ford, so 5, potentially 6.
But yes it’s still kind of a disaster.
It is 7-8 if he means haven’t been on the court during our games. 4 freshmen, 2 redshirts, 1 transfer,
1 pending.
Of course that also makes the assumption that you can’t learn team chemistry except during a live game.
KWeaver, my optimism has served me well in all aspects of my life. In science, some experiments are difficult and optimism provides the fuel needed to see them through. We are all different; I just choose, when possible, to act kindly and view the world through rose colored glasses.
Some like to wallow in anger or despair when a situation gets tough; some like to smile and laugh when a situation gets tough. None of us here have the power to control personnel or coaching strategies, so I chose smile and laugh, even when I'm upset with a decision.
Similar threads
