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Delonnie Hunt joins the Spiders

spiderman said:
it didn't work out perfectly, but tough to argue with the 3 transfers he landed. all fit our needs.
there's no doubt Nelson has talent. we've started freshmen before with success. believing he was next in line wasn't a stretch. and Dji also has talent as a PG, though I think he'll do more as a non-PG with PG skills.
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Appreciate your perspective, but, I disagree with the "Nelson not a stretch" assertion.

If Mooney read Nelson's resume and press clippings then I 100% agree that Nelson being next in line wasn't a stretch. I thought (and said) the same before I saw him play. However, Mooney saw Nelson in-person, every day for two seasons. We only saw him occasionally (in games). From what I saw of him, It was immediately apparent that he had major deficiencies in his game that made him not ready for the keys to the kingdom.

p.s. I've never said that Nelson has no talent, but it was obvious that he had no business being an A-10 starter and team quarterback in his first year. Much the same as it was with Isiah Wilson.

As the coach, Mooney is expected to be able to properly assess his players. At his rate of compensation, it isn't too much to ask. In my opinion, several missteps could have happened with Nelson. None of them inspire a ton of confidence. 1) Coach's assessment was that Nelson was ready to be next in line, (Mooney hinted at this in pre-season). 2) Coach's assessment was that Nelson wasn't ready to be next in line but he put him in place anyway, 3) Coach felt that he had no choice but Nelson.

If # 1 was the problem, that speaks to a coaching competence issue. If # 2 was the problem, that speaks to a coach decision-making (competence) issue. If # 3 was the problem, that speaks to multiple lines of program failure which fall squarely on the shoulders of the coach. After watching Nelson daily for nearly 2-years, Mooney should have known that handing him the keys to the car wasn't going to promote maximum success.
 
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Not-A-Homer said:
Appreciate your perspective, but, I disagree with the "Nelson not a stretch" assertion.

If Mooney read Nelson's resume and press clippings then I 100% agree that Nelson being next in line wasn't a stretch. I thought (and said) the same before I saw him play. However, Mooney saw Nelson in-person, every day for two seasons. We only saw him occasionally (in games). From what I saw of him, It was immediately apparent that he had major deficiencies in his game that made him not ready for the keys to the kingdom.

p.s. I've never said that Nelson has no talent, but it was obvious that he had no business being an A-10 starter and team quarterback in his first year. Much the same as it was with Isiah Wilson.

As the coach, Mooney is expected to be able to properly assess his players. At his rate of compensation, it isn't too much to ask. In my opinion, several missteps could have happened with Nelson. None of them inspire a ton of confidence. 1) Coach's assessment was that Nelson was ready to be next in line, (Mooney hinted at this in pre-season). 2) Coach's assessment was that Nelson wasn't ready to be next in line but he put him in place anyway, 3) Coach felt that he had no choice but Nelson.

If # 1 was the problem, that speaks to a coaching competence issue. If # 2 was the problem, that speaks to a coach decision-making (competence) issue. If # 3 was the problem, that speaks to multiple lines of program failure which fall squarely on the shoulders of the coach. After watching Nelson daily for nearly 2-years, Mooney should have known that handing him the keys to the car wasn't going to promote maximum success.
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Not defending Mooney, but Nelson was obviously a head case. Anger and confidence issues, and definitely not a team player.
 
SpiderK said:
Not defending Mooney, but Nelson was obviously a head case. Anger and confidence issues, and definitely not a team player.
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K that is a pretty strong assessment of a player. That is like putting someone in the same category as Deon Merritt.
Nelson just played like a freshman that feels the pressure of the big stage. To me he struggled the last half of the season.
 
CarolinaSpider said:
K that is a pretty strong assessment of a player. That is like putting someone in the same category as Deon Merritt.
Nelson just played like a freshman that feels the pressure of the big stage. To me he struggled the last half of the season.
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I know j Nelson and his father personally and he is not what describe him to be. Your assessment is way out of bounds. I agree with you CSpider
 
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Yep, Nelson seemed like a good kid. He did show the potential too. If he has a good career at VCU, this is a bad look for moon. Kind of like all the criticism of both Sixers and Celtics players. Probably some of it warranted, but if they had a Spoelsra or Popovich in charge, likely a much different narrative, and they look a lot more composed because they are put in better positions by their coach.
 
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I think JayNel has talent, he had some great games for us. I think at times he looked like a freshman. Not surprising.

Armchair analysis is that he perceived the coaching staff lost faith in him, or they in fact did. Either way, I suspect he felt like he had to bounce.
 
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MrTbone said:
I think JayNel has talent, he had some great games for us. I think at times he looked like a freshman. Not surprising.

Armchair analysis is that he perceived the coaching staff lost faith in him, or they in fact did. Either way, I suspect he felt like he had to bounce.
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Yep, I think when you get benched late in the year, and then we immediately contact every guard we can think of in the portal, he realized it wasn't looking too good for him next year. I think he still could have given us some good minutes here and there, but it is not surprising he would not want that after starting and playing 30+ minutes a lot of games. I do wonder how much time he will get at VCU though. Maybe he gets some good minutes early, but I could see the same thing happening there that happened here.
 
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Nelson is a good kid and a good player. I suspect this is not going to look too good for Mooney when Nelson's career at that other school is over.
 
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Nelson will look much better at times at VCU because he won't have to break down a defense on his own as the shot clock winds down, like the UR point guard is expected to do (because the offense often fails against pressure defenses or when non-shooters fill the court.). If his 3 ball comes around and he's able to get more points in transition, he may look way better on offense. I'm not familiar with the new coach's offense so couldn't say for sure how much VCU will run but I think that is a strength for Nelson.

He'll still be very exploitable on defense, nothing I saw last year showed me he had the quickness to stay in front of guys or the defensive instincts and chops to be good on that side of the ball, and we know the size issue will always be a thing.
 
Not-A-Homer said:
From what I saw of him, It was immediately apparent that he had major deficiencies in his game that made him not ready for the keys to the kingdom.
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he scored double figures in 5 of his 1st 6 games including 21 vs Northern Iowa.
in those 6 games he also had 7 assists vs Wichita St and 6 assist vs Syracuse.
he was getting 2 steals per game.

while it's fair to expect bumps in the road, we were very happy with our 1st year PG early on. he seemed to get frustrated later on and regressed.
 
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spiderman said:
he scored double figures in 5 of his 1st 6 games including 21 vs Northern Iowa.
in those 6 games he also had 7 assists vs Wichita St and 6 assist vs Syracuse.
he was getting 2 steals per game.

while it's fair to expect bumps in the road, we were very happy with our 1st year PG early on. he seemed to get frustrated later on and regressed.
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It isn't all about scoring my friend.
 
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Not-A-Homer said:
It isn't all about scoring my friend.
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of course not. I'm saying in those first 6 games, no way anyone was writing him off. it wasn't just scoring. 6 and 7 assist games. 2 steals per game. 6 for his last 11 from 3. over 3 rpg. he looked pretty darn good for a freshman PG.
 
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I watched the kid play 30 games, 16 of them from 30 feet away. My assessment is right on the nose. Bad attitude.
 
SpiderK said:
I watched the kid play 30 games, 16 of them from 30 feet away. My assessment is right on the nose. Bad attitude.
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I'm not disagreeing with the final assessment. I'm disagreeing that Homer made that call "immediately".
and even if he did, a freshman will often have problems early and still end up good.

Nelson was HS POY. he was a very good recruit. he had a year in the program. I'm not surprised that Mooney felt good with Nelson/Bailey as his main PGs this past year.

we had 3 transfer spots open. we landed a 7 footer, a big forward, and a shooter. that's exactly what I would have focused on. I don't blame Mooney for not adding a PG.
 
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Not-A-Homer said:
Appreciate your perspective, but, I disagree with the "Nelson not a stretch" assertion.

If Mooney read Nelson's resume and press clippings then I 100% agree that Nelson being next in line wasn't a stretch. I thought (and said) the same before I saw him play. However, Mooney saw Nelson in-person, every day for two seasons. We only saw him occasionally (in games). From what I saw of him, It was immediately apparent that he had major deficiencies in his game that made him not ready for the keys to the kingdom.

p.s. I've never said that Nelson has no talent, but it was obvious that he had no business being an A-10 starter and team quarterback in his first year. Much the same as it was with Isiah Wilson.

As the coach, Mooney is expected to be able to properly assess his players. At his rate of compensation, it isn't too much to ask. In my opinion, several missteps could have happened with Nelson. None of them inspire a ton of confidence. 1) Coach's assessment was that Nelson was ready to be next in line, (Mooney hinted at this in pre-season). 2) Coach's assessment was that Nelson wasn't ready to be next in line but he put him in place anyway, 3) Coach felt that he had no choice but Nelson.

If # 1 was the problem, that speaks to a coaching competence issue. If # 2 was the problem, that speaks to a coach decision-making (competence) issue. If # 3 was the problem, that speaks to multiple lines of program failure which fall squarely on the shoulders of the coach. After watching Nelson daily for nearly 2-years, Mooney should have known that handing him the keys to the car wasn't going to promote maximum success.
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i could never look at Nelson when playing and think it was good for future. if you are point guard now and do not know everything about high ball screen strategy then sit down
 
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spider23 said:
Good interview. This guy is growing on me. Love the defensive mentality. I like the fact that we are coming in with a brand new attitude and dynamic in the back court. Like SF said, let's see it play out on the court, but deLonnie is saying all the right things.
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Yes, definitely liking the looks of this guy, and really looking forward to watching a new backcourt. Glad to see you have changed your thoughts on Hunt a little from questioning why I would start him. :)
 
he looks like a winner out there.

but while he may start, he's got a long enough track record in a lower level conference for pause. I'll assume very good defense and not great shooting. I'm not handing him (or Dji) the starting sport. let them plus Smith, Roche, and maybe others battle it out all fall.
 
I like Hunt, I love his attitude, but I don't think our style fits what he says his strengths are: picking up 94 feet and turning his guy three times before half court, and getting downhill on offense. That's not us, and I don't think the system will change to fit Hunt.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, because my view is this team (other than Quinn) would be at its best at a high tempo and pressing a LOT.
 
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kneepadmckinney said:
I like Hunt, I love his attitude, but I don't think our style fits what he says his strengths are: picking up 94 feet and turning his guy three times before half court, and getting downhill on offense. That's not us, and I don't think the system will change to fit Hunt.

I sincerely hope I am wrong, because my view is this team (other than Quinn) would be at its best at a high tempo and pressing a LOT.
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Wilson recently did that for us, and others have as well. It may not be our style to play Nolan Richardson's 40 minutes of hell, but we have shown we will bother an opposing PG 94 feet at times. Getting downhill is much needed in today's game, and Hunt looks good doing that. With so much emphasis on the 3 ball, if you can attack and have both (3s and attack) be part of your game, you have a chance to be real good offensively. I would expect Hunt to do just what he says he can do, and do it well. If he can get his 3s back to 35+%, we found ourselves a real good one here.
 
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spiderman said:
he looks like a winner out there.

but while he may start, he's got a long enough track record in a lower level conference for pause. I'll assume very good defense and not great shooting. I'm not handing him (or Dji) the starting sport. let them plus Smith, Roche, and maybe others battle it out all fall.
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If Roche starts, it would likely be with Hunt (and King), not instead of him. I think Smith is the one who could challenge Hunt, but I would be expect both to play good minutes, with Smith getting more and more as the season rolls along.
 
Roche can play guard.
we didn't like him at the 2 with Nelson, but it might be different with King. or not.

yes, if Hunt can shoot 35% from 3 like 3 years ago then it's a no brainer, but I can't ignore the 28.7% last year or 31% the year before. worse, he was only 41% from 2 last year! so I'm not sure we want him going downhill. his eFG was bad.
 
So is the assumption that Hunt is our starter?

Safe to assume that Roche, Bigelow, and Quinn are starting. Is Hunt our starting PG?
 
SpiderTrap said:
So is the assumption that Hunt is our starter?

Safe to assume that Roche, Bigelow, and Quinn are starting. Is Hunt our starting PG?
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King is our starting PG.
probably backed up by Hunt, who may or may not start at the 2.
and not safe to assume Roche is a starter at any spot yet.
 
As we all know, in the past one of my critiques of Mooney has been the fact that we go into each season being able to be pretty sure who we can pencil into starting positions. A big part of this is recruiting, and not having potential high impact guys that can take minutes.
That said I do see King, Bigelow, and Quinn as penciled in starters. King based on his a record and ability. Bigs - we need someone who can guard inside and he showed me enough last year, and again no proven "4" type that can defend/rebound in there. Quinn, as much as I want Walz to challenge, I don't think he will over take him.

I really hope for the other positions we do have some strong comp. I feel like Dji's experience gives him an edge in the back court. You could also say same for Roche at 2 or 3 I guess. But hopefully Tyne, Smith and Hunt are all pressing for a main job. Same with Noyes and Tanner.
 
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spider23 said:
As we all know, in the past one of my critiques of Mooney has been the fact that we go into each season being able to be pretty sure who we can pencil into starting positions. A big part of this is recruiting, and not having potential high impact guys that can take minutes.
That said I do see King, Bigelow, and Quinn as penciled in starters. King based on his a record and ability. Bigs - we need someone who can guard inside and he showed me enough last year, and again no proven "4" type that can defend/rebound in there. Quinn, as much as I want Walz to challenge, I don't think he will over take him.

I really hope for the other positions we do have some strong comp. I feel like Dji's experience gives him an edge in the back court. You could also say same for Roche at 2 or 3 I guess. But hopefully Tyne, Smith and Hunt are all pressing for a main job. Same with Noyes and Tanner.
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I agree King, Bigs, and Quinn are clear starters. With 3 years of eye test now, I still don't see Dji being a starter, so I will disagree there. We definitely want another ball handler with King, so that would leave Hunt or Smith, with my edge going to Hunt right now, but mainly because I have seen him more, and Smith is a little more of an unknown at this level. From there, the 5th spot could really go to anyone of Roche, Noyes, Tanner, or even Smith, if he is too good to keep off the court and we go super small. My best guess is Smith and Tanner won't be starting from day 1, so I am sticking with my 5 of King, Hunt, Roche/Noyes, Bigs, and Quinn, with Roche and Noyes maybe battling it out until the end of pre season.
 
spiderman said:
Roche can play guard.
we didn't like him at the 2 with Nelson, but it might be different with King. or not.

yes, if Hunt can shoot 35% from 3 like 3 years ago then it's a no brainer, but I can't ignore the 28.7% last year or 31% the year before. worse, he was only 41% from 2 last year! so I'm not sure we want him going downhill. his eFG was bad.
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Roche can play guard, but I would think only in a 3 guard lineup, if you want to call him a guard. I don't see him as our 2nd ball handler, do you?

We had the same talk about Goose and Grace going into last year, and they shot 36.5% and 37.3% from 3 last year. We don't know what Hunt will end up shooting, but my point is, like Goose and Grace had done, he has shown in the past that he can make them on pretty decent volume. So, the fact that he "could" be a 35% guy gives him the edge over someone who does not have the 3 in his game. Now, if his 3s are not falling and he is not finishing, than I don't see the 25+ minutes for him I have projected because we need scoring, especially at guard to give us another scoring option with King.

I am not as worried about Hunt's 2 point percentage. It was bad last year (41%), when he led them in scoring, was their only double digit scorer, and probably tried to do too much at times, but it was good 2 years ago (51.5%), when he was their 5th leading scorer. I think he will let the game come to him more here, pick his spots, and we will see some much improved shooting over last year from both 2 and 3.
 
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Hunt - was thinking the same thing - he may not have been used to being the lead guy, and having all the extra attention last season. Hopefully that was the case and he had forced some shots causing the lower percentage. Based on his interview he is very willing to be a glue guy and do all the little things to impact winning. It would be great though if Smith is so good he forces his way on the court.
 
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SpiderTrap said:
Side note - but somewhat related. Who is running the website over the summer for UR Athletics? You think they would update the roster with all the changes. We are still showing Burton, Nelson, and Goose on the roster.
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Come on, we are only barely surviving as it is with just 29 or 30 people in the athletic department administration, now you want to hire ANOTHER person just to update the website?? You'll get your update by Nov. 1 and not a day sooner – and you will LIKE IT!
 
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