deCline or inCline

[sdspider]

Last two games TJ has been more or less stifled on the offensive end. Granted he hit two big three at VCU but seems teams are doubling him down low limiting his efficiency near the rim and making it bit harder for him to pass out of. He does his best work down low but not getting the ball in a good position as much to do damage. Wondering what your thoughts are, obviously it's only a two game stretch but seems teams are trying to deCline him the ball. We need his contributions.

This post was edited on 2/6 3:06 AM by sdspider

 

[urfan1]

if I were coaching and saw that happen I would post Cline up low, let the other team put two bigs on him thus leaving one guy open at most times, Cline may not get his points, but he would make it easier for others to score

 

[Spider B]

+1 Fan1. That is the easy solution. If teams want to double TJ in the post, someone is open and we need to make them pay.

 

[Eight Legger]

How often was Cline in at the same time as Trey or Deion or both? I can't recall, but that could be part of the issue. Anytime that lineup is on the floor, Cline will always be doubled.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Maybe in a temporary funk, but he's shown signs of what he can do. Usually a great passer - maybe not so last night, but he's been a go to guy this year enough times when needed. Got us points in a big way when needed more times than not. On balance a really good player with upside. Think what it would have been this year w/out him. Glad he transferred to us.

Also doesn't help when teams can double him & know that there are other guys on the floor who aren't looking to shoot. It ain't rocket science.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think Cline is just feeling the effects of A10 play. He has had good games against teams he matches up well with. Davidson (a perimeter oriented team like UR), Datyon (no one over 6-6), and bottom feeders like Mason and Bonnies.

And this is just who he is this year - an inconsistent player. Almost like a frosh who plays a lot of minutes. His highs will be high, and his lows will be low. Hopefully next year he can more consistent and counted on as a key offensive player.

 

[97spiderfan]

Perhaps TJ has seen the secret to more minutes our system, don't score as much. Seems to work well for Trey and Deion.

 

[coachfezz]

I think that is funny 97.

 

[spiderman]

TJ worked his butt off last night posting up. made some good and some bad passes out of the doubles.
really impressed with LaSalle's defense. all this talk about Havoc, but LaSalle was much tougher defensively. they were able to deny the post, double if the ball got there, and still recover to shooters. we had a really tough time getting any good looks. they'd be pretty good if they weren't weak on offense.

refs didn't cost us the game, but I don't get why they feel the need to blow the whistle so quickly. I know you don't want to be too late, but make sure there's a foul first please before anticipating the call. LaSally shot 36 FT's. most were earned, but not all.

we're a good FT shooting team, but last night our misses really hurt.

never saw so many clanged shots roll up and in on soft rims before in LaSalle's favor. did they have mikes on that rim, or was the rest of the gym that quiet? yet the same soft rim didn't help us at all.

some bad turnovers, but otherwise a heck of a game by ANO. whole team did a nice job again on the defensive glass.

transition baskets really hurt, and that rarely happens to us. some of that was carelessness with the ball and some was good aggressive defense on the perimeter by LaSalle. we almost always get back. not sure why we couldn't last night.

we don't like to double to help Kendall because we don't want to leave the 3 point line open, but had to adjust and rotate when they kept backing him down. he was getting hit prett hard square in the chest. if he keeps his feet set, he takes charges there. I know "flopping" is unpopular these days, but getting hit in the chest and falling isn't a flop. a flop is exaggerating the contact. there was plenty of contact there. Kendall is tough and strong, but at 140 lbs or so, physics says he can't hold his ground.

 

[SpiderFan26]

Originally posted by 97spiderfan:

Perhaps TJ has seen the secret to more minutes our system, don't score as much. Seems to work well for Trey and Deion.

LOL. It was interesting to see how far La Salle slacked off the 2 of them

 

[SpiderK]

With TD and DT in the game, teams can double Cline and KO at same time. Terry Allen is the key. He has to take over when they double Cline or KO. He is the only Junior that can or will score. ANO could but won't. This team is built for rebounding and and scoring in the paint, yet we live or die shooting bricks from the 3 point line.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Originally posted by SpiderK:
With TD and DT in the game, teams can double Cline and KO at same time. Terry Allen is the key. He has to take over when they double Cline or KO. He is the only Junior that can or will score. ANO could but won't. This team is built for rebounding and and scoring in the paint, yet we live or die shooting bricks from the 3 point line.

I agree with most of your posts but don't get the "This team is built for rebounding". It may be built for rebounding but the system does not emphasize it. We're one of the worst rebounding teams in the country.

Please explain because maybe I'm missing something here.

 

[Eight Legger]

He means that we have the athletes who can rebound, but we just choose not to use them that way.

K, I would say that lately Alonzo has been turning into more of a scoring threat. Last night was a very solid effort for him. He did a little bit of everything. Ever since the GW game and that drive and dunk down the lane, he has been looking to dribble-drive more often, and he normally gets fouled. With as good a foul-shooter as he has become, that's pretty much two points either way. And when he is making a couple threes, like last night, he's almost impossible to guard.

 

[ur2K]

Originally posted by SpiderK:
With TD and DT in the game, teams can double Cline and KO at same time. Terry Allen is the key. He has to take over when they double Cline or KO. He is the only Junior that can or will score. ANO could but won't. This team is built for rebounding and and scoring in the paint, yet we live or die shooting bricks from the 3 point line.

Adoda scored 15 and had 7 boards last night. He wasn't the problem.

We can scream it until we are blue in the face, but our best team has ANO, TJ and TA in the game at the same time. That opens up the floor for the other players to score. When you have 2 starters who score 0 points in a game, it mucks things up around the basket.

 

[SpiderK]

Spider Guy, Eight has it right I just meant our 4 juniors are tall and athletic and physically built for rebounding. I am painfully aware that is not "our" philosophy. I am learning the change over from twitter and forget there is more room here to explain thoughts. I also don't want to write a book either. . ANO has done an unbelievable job with his free throw shooting. Love for him to teach DT and TD. Just looks like DT an TD should cut to the basket more often when Cline is double teamed. What happened to Princeton Offense?

Thank you both for the clarification.

This post was edited on 2/6 4:39 PM by SpiderK

 

[Eight Legger]

Since DT and TD more or less are in there for the same reason, I would prefer to see them subbed in and out for each other rather than both playing at the same time. I realize TD can do more things, like bringing the ball up and driving down the lane, but for the most part those guys are both defenders and rebounders, when they are allowed to do that.

It doesn't make a lot of sense to play them together, for the reasons mentioned here and in almost every thread on this board.

 

[97spiderfan]

It doesn't make a lot of sense to play them together, for the reasons mentioned here and in almost every thread on this board.

It does make sense to us, because we are all a bunch of morons. If we were enlightened as Coach Mooney or Matt Smith, than it would make perfect sense.

 

[sdspider]

It seems Trey has been instructed not to drive to the hoop anymore with a slash. Obviously Deion has a red light unless it is a dunk. Those two guys really hurt us on the O end, while they probably help on the D end. That's the missing piece right now to I think being more consistent. We need 4 or 5 guys who are a threat to score, preferably hit a three to draw out the defenders away from the hoop. I agree they should cut without the ball and look for the pass. Lasalle did a very good job of getting out on the right shooters and sagging off the non shooting threats and clogging the lane. Terry was even open so many times from three he has to shoot those more I think. Having Trey and Deion pass the ball around the perimeter doesn't help and smart teams will collapse off them and deny the interior and clog the lane for our bigs to get the ball, like Cline. I really hope Ododa can keep this up, he kept us in that game, and is finally starting to show flashes of putting it together. It's been a long time coming.

 

[PhillySpider]

Cline's recent struggles are no doubt intertwined with the TD and DT issue. They can double TJ anytime he is on the floor with either of them and simply take their chances on the open jump shot that either TD or DT might get as a result. Chances are we'll miss it.

This also explains why Cm must use the Offense/defense substitution pattern. TJ playing with SDJ, KO, TA, gives us a much better chance of not getting doubled in the post or knocking down the jumper. If he's out there with DT AND TD, anyone in their right mind would double him in the post!

 

[SpiderRick]

Originally posted by ur2K:

Originally posted by SpiderK:
With TD and DT in the game, teams can double Cline and KO at same time. Terry Allen is the key. He has to take over when they double Cline or KO. He is the only Junior that can or will score. ANO could but won't. This team is built for rebounding and and scoring in the paint, yet we live or die shooting bricks from the 3 point line.

Adoda scored 15 and had 7 boards last night. He wasn't the problem.

We can scream it until we are blue in the face, but our best team has ANO, TJ and TA in the game at the same time. That opens up the floor for the other players to score. When you have 2 starters who score 0 points in a game, it mucks things up around the basket.

This is so obvious that even us "couch coaches" can figure it out. If you have two guys in that don't have to be guarded, Cline can be double-teamed and the other extra can just park himself under the basket and wait for the rebounds that we don't compete for. However ANO can redeem us if he continues his assertiveness on the offensive end. I believe he has scored in double figures like 4 or 5 times in the past 7 games, and is in the top ten in the league in FT shooting (this still amazes me).

 

[Not-A-Homer]

No question that opposing teams are now giving T.J. Cline a lot of attention. That is certainly going to impact his game.

As mentioned by someone else, Cline's game and confidence seem to be slumping. The wise ones can decide whether it is significant, but I noticed on TV about 3 (or so) games ago Cline was in an obvious disagreement with Coach Mooney. Cline was in the lineup, there was a stoppage of play, Mooney was animated in Cline's ear, and Cline was talking back & shaking his head.

It was clear from the 3-5 second clip on TV that Mooney & Cline were not on the same page. Anybody else see this?

Coincidence or not, T.J. Cline has been a different player in the last few games. Have not paid attention as to whether he is receiving the little handshake or not, but something has changed. Mooney has clearly been barking at him more in the last few games. The less stellar play is likely causing a more aggressive reaction from Mooney, but the bigger question is, is more aggression from the Coach causing continuing lesser play from Cline?

Enlightenment, i.e. opinions, are welcome. The chicken or the egg? Maybe some of both? Anyone wish to assert that there is no connection at all? A coincidence?

One thing that I do know for sure is that the Spiders need the confident scoring & passing of T.J. Cline in order to win consistently.

 

[coachfezz]

Yes..coach always got doubled figures in scoring with half the game minutes so others not scoring was no problem. But I remember Duinker too. Teams double team Cline because they respect his scoring so it is trto coaches to solve because this will not go away. I was thinking about pressure to score because you are offense rotation. Defense rotation team is like a free bird. I think this is a delicate time for some players. Imagine if there was no pressure on you to ever score when you play and how free that would be?

 

[fan2011]

Cline is fine, you guys are reading too much into his performance last night. Everybody has off nights. He also looked a bit flustered in the first half of the VCU game, but that was just the jitters of playing our ranked rival on the road. He is going to continue being a great offensive weapon.

This post was edited on 2/6 5:30 PM by fan2011

 

[Spider B]

Cline is fine. I predict he scores 15 against Rhody.

 

[SpiderK]

Spiders need to Re-Cline. Get that young man in the offense by someone else chipping in on offense and opening up the floor for Cline to dish and shoot.

 

[McSpider67]

I agree that Cline will be fine. Defense on him last night resembled a sumo wrestling technique. He was off balance or constantly fighting to remain upright without a whistle. I doubt that would have been allowed in the RC.

 

[URSpider65]

You are right on the money, "Not-a-homer". Have rarely seen a coach with some much contempt for a player with his looks, and the constant removal every time TJ makes an errant pass, missed a shot, or has someone score on him. Even gets pulled after he hits two 3 pointers to put us back in the VCU game! I've been watching this interaction for a long time and am so disappointed in CM as I watch him pull TJ in and out of games, and play him so little. The team needs him on the floor, but it's obvious to me that it's not going to happen with this coach. SAD.

I know that TJ has significant shooting, passing, and "assists" potential if Chris would let him play.
Best line up is ANO, TA, TJ matched with any of the guards, Coach still doesn't get it. The other coach's respect TJ more than ours.
I'd be looking at another school/coach to escape the "purgatory" that I envision CM has created with TJ; I feel really sorry for TJ and indirectly his Mom, in choosing UR. What a waste.

 

[ThePhysician]

Could he transfer again?

 

[urfan1]

Really????????

 

[SpiderGuy]

Originally posted by URSpider65:
You are right on the money, "Not-a-homer". Have rarely seen a coach with some much contempt for a player with his looks, and the constant removal every time TJ makes an errant pass, missed a shot, or has someone score on him. Even gets pulled after he hits two 3 pointers to put us back in the VCU game! I've been watching this interaction for a long time and am so disappointed in CM as I watch him pull TJ in and out of games, and play him so little. The team needs him on the floor, but it's obvious to me that it's not going to happen with this coach. SAD.

I know that TJ has significant shooting, passing, and "assists" potential if Chris would let him play.
Best line up is ANO, TA, TJ matched with any of the guards, Coach still doesn't get it. The other coach's respect TJ more than ours.
I'd be looking at another school/coach to escape the "purgatory" that I envision CM has created with TJ; I feel really sorry for TJ and indirectly his Mom, in choosing UR. What a waste.

A reward for TJ at VCU for hitting 2 quick & critical 2nd half 3 pointers - a trip to the bench. I guess it would be illogical to leave a guy in with a hot hand. He gets substituted within 2 or 3 minutes of a half starting. Seems to be the pattern of late - not just at VCU. Bet on the clock for sub patterns.

 

[SpiderK]

Smart only mentioned Anthony and Cline in his Friday before the game show. Not sure if you guys noticed, but Mooney chewed KO's ass all the time his first 3 years. This is the first year he has laid off of him. I really thought we would lose KO every off season. Cline is good and will help keep us from bring a joke the next two years.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

You are on the money SpiderK.

Luckily for us, Kendal Anthony is as tough as they come. Much of his extraordinary success evolves from his mental & physical toughness. Few players are as mentally rugged as Kendal Anthony.

The manner in which a Coach interacts with players significantly impacts individual and team performances. That much I can confidently state as a fact.

People are free to decide for themselves whether this is a strength or a weakness when it comes to Coach Mooney.

 

[fan2011]

Originally posted by Not-A-Homer:

The manner in which a Coach interacts with players significantly impacts individual and team performances. That much I can confidently state as a fact.

Of course a coach's interactions with his players have an effect on their performance, that is the point of having a coach. I can't believe how much speculation you guys are doing. All former and current players have had nothing but good things to say about Mooney.