Bigelow compared to Burton

[UR80sfan]

Burton’s transfer was a big setback for our basketball season, but Bigelow has significantly stepped up his game from last year and appears to be adding more value to the team then Burton did during conference play (understand we have a long way to go). Burton’s shooting percentage last year during conference play declined considerable and unfortunately for him, it is also happening this year.

After our 1st 3 conference games Bigelow is currently 4th in A10 in rebounding at 8.7 per game, 21st in 3 point shooting ave 44.4%, 10th in free throw percent 90.0%, 21st in steels at 1.3 per game. He probably would not have had these numbers if Burton was still on the team.

Burton has been struggling in conference play. After 5 games he is only shouting 31.4% and his 3 point shooting ave is 12.5%, Free throw ave 76.9, 7.8 rebounds a game and less then 1 steel per game.

 

[urfan1]

Love Bigelow "Bigs', but see no need to denigrate Burton.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Love Bigelow "Bigs', but see no need to denigrate Burton.

I agree. Burton was a tremendous player for us, and I appreciate all he gave us in his 4 years. I’ve watched a few Villanova games this year, and in those games he did well.

Bigs is having a big year and has stepped up his play and consistency. I’m glad he’s a Spider.

 

[SpiderRick]

80s was just noting Burton's stats, I wouldn't call that denigrating.

 

[fan2011]

They are on different teams with different needs. I think Nova is a top 25 team, probably can make a run in the tournament this year. I hope they do, want nothing but success for Burton.

 

[Gallipoli]

Burton's contribution is way down, as compared to his UR days. He went from a potential player of the year in the A10 to an also ran at Villanova. His production is down, his minutes per game are down, his FG% and 3FG% are down, his steals are down, his assists are down, and his blocks are down. He is probably not getting the individual coaching that he would have received at Richmond. Below are the stats for Burton, year over year.

Tyler Burton - Villanova Wildcats Forward - ESPN

View the profile of Villanova Wildcats Forward Tyler Burton on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.

www.espn.com

 

[Gallipoli]

Villanova is playing right now. Burton has 6 points on 2 of 6. He was 1 of 3 from 3. In this game, he is the #6 scorer for Nova.

Marquette 87-74 Villanova (Jan 15, 2024) Box Score - ESPN

Box score for the Marquette Golden Eagles vs. Villanova Wildcats NCAAM game from January 15, 2024 on ESPN. Includes all points, rebounds and steals stats.

www.espn.com

 

[Gallipoli]

On the other side of the coin, Mooney was probably going to try to make Burton the center of the offense, this year. Because Burton left, it opened up a lot of opportunities for other players, including Bigelow.

 

[Gallipoli]

I understand AW3 is available.

 

[urfan1]

I understand AW3 is available.

LOL

 

[Section9.RowD]

Love Bigelow ... love TB, a damn good Spider graduate .. Love our current team and will hope TB and Nova make a run in Big East tourney and we see them and beat them in the Round of 32 ..

 

[spider23]

Hard to compare. More weapons and better guard play this year would have probably helped Burton. He probably felt like he had too do a lot and that affected ball movement.

Look at it this way. I think Bigs and King would take Burton and Jaynel 2 v2.

 

[PalmTreeSpidUR]

I liked Burton but I think his absence has allowed/forced others to step up. I'm glad Bigelow did.

 

[Gallipoli]

I liked Burton but I think his absence has allowed/forced others to step up. I'm glad Bigelow did.

Sometimes change is good.

 

[wr70beh]

I don't think it's necessary to tear someone down in order to make your argument. Just enjoy the winning, man.

 

[97spiderfan]

On the other side of the coin, Mooney was probably going to try to make Burton the center of the offense, this year. Because Burton left, it opened up a lot of opportunities for other players, including Bigelow.

Yes, he most likely would have. Not saying we are better without Burton, he is a great player, but as noted, when he left, he opened up opportunity for other players (Bigs and Dji have both stepped in nicely) and most importantly Mooney's stubborn loyalty to tenured players was upset as he had none, which allowed this team to forge its own identity.

Do King and D-Lo become the leaders of this team if Burton is still here is an interesting and unanswerable question.

 

[spiderman]

Burton is a really good player and a great athlete. but the move to Villanova isn't helping his draft status at all. he shoots more 3's than 2's now, and at a 28.6% clip.

I'd still have loved him to stay, but I do wonder what the effect would have been. we successfully moved on. nobody is irreplaceable.

 

[Section9.RowD]

For those of you with a RTD subscription, seems coincidentally a new JOC article just came out ... as I think is pretty much well known at this point, Mooney speculates that Nova's NIL budget (that JOC mentions at 3 million) with TB getting a nice chunk of that was likely key factor in the move. I am happy for TB in this regards and still hope they can get to the tournament but worry about the skills of their coach and lack of a true point guard on the team - yesterday's game was rough.

Ex-Spiders star Tyler Burton jumped to Villanova. Was that the right move?

“You’ve got a player that’s really, really, really, really good that you coached the hell out of, and you just made them who they are … And that kid goes,

richmond.com

 

[Eight Legger]

I hope Burton kicks ass the rest of the way and gets drafted this summer. But if he doesn't, he pocketed $500k and gets to go play in the G-League for a chance to get a call-up, or in Europe for the chance to make a lot more money. Can't fault him at all.

I also agree that for this team, it has actually worked out very well. We look like more of a team than we did last year, for a variety of reasons, and it's translating to wins. Tough to complain about that right now.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Not to rain on this at all bc Bigs has been great this year, but he had 6 points two games back. Tyler had like 38 against CoC last year?Going to the extremes to show my point of course but I think ppl are losing sight of how good he was and the usage we asked of him on last year’s team. Bigs shot terribly with last year’s PG remember. Just wholly different situations for two players we all really like.

 

[gcarter52]

Not to rain on this at all bc Bigs has been great this year, but he had 6 points two games back. Tyler had like 38 against CoC last year?Going to the extremes to show my point of course but I think ppl are losing sight of how good he was and the usage we asked of him on last year’s team. Bigs shot terribly with last year’s PG remember. Just wholly different situations for two players we all really like.

Yes, his whole body of work has improved tremendously.

 

[Gallipoli]

The team has really grown, partly because we added two very good guards, who can score.

 

[spiderman]

The team has really grown, partly because we added two very good guards, who can score.

I used to think Mooney's system needed 5 guys who can shoot.

now I think it just needs a highly skilled big man and a dynamic scoring point guard. the other spots you can fill with any kind of talent if you have the right guys at the 5 and the 1.

 

[VT4700]

Burton is a really good player and a great athlete. but the move to Villanova isn't helping his draft status at all. he shoots more 3's than 2's now, and at a 28.6% clip.

I'd still have loved him to stay, but I do wonder what the effect would have been. we successfully moved on. nobody is irreplaceable.

I am not sure the move to Nova was about draft stock. He tested the draft after year 3 and 4 and got his feedback. I'm not sure what might change a year later, no matter the school. After 4 years, he got some good $ and a chance to play at a place like Nova in the Big East in his final year. GMs have already seen 4 years of him, and he will likely be in the same spot after this year with the draft, going to camps and workouts and seeing where that leads him. I wish him the best wherever his pro career takes him.

 

[spiderman]

Burton's 3 point shooting dropped from 36% to 29% when he became the scoring focus at Richmond. not a good time to go pro with that shooting percentage. I figured at Nova he wouldn't be the focus and maybe his 3 point shooting would jump back up. that would help his draft status. it hasn't.

 

[UR80sfan]

This post was supposed to focus on what a great job Bigelow was doing filling Burton's shoes, however a lot of people are commenting on Burton, so I will add my 2 cents of advice.

If Burton had stayed with Richmond and had a good season, I believe he had a good shot at getting drafted into the NBA. He might have gotten a short term pay day in transferring, but his chances of getting drafted into the NBA have gone down considerably, where $500,000 is pocket change.

I also think he needs to improve his shooting to make the G-league. I like Burton a lot and was devastated when he transferred. I hope he has a strong 2nd half.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Lol, the first paragraph of ypur initial post in this thread mentions Burton 3 times and Bigelow once. You tried to define Bigs by a comparison to Burton. No kidding we will discuss Tyler after that.

If you only wanted to say “how great has Bigs been” why not just write that? I’ll even answer the question.

He’s been great.

I also think Tyler made the correct move. It’s essentially taking what might turn out to be the best paying job of his life, and was only available this one year, never again. I don’t begrudge him a single bit.

 

[UR80sfan]

Lol, the first paragraph of ypur initial post in this thread mentions Burton 3 times and Bigelow once. You tried to define Bigs by a comparison to Burton. No kidding we will discuss Tyler after that.

If you only wanted to say “how great has Bigs been” why not just write that? I’ll even answer the question.

He’s been great.

I also think Tyler made the correct move. It’s essentially taking what might turn out to be the best paying job of his life, and was only available this one year, never again. I don’t begrudge him a single bit.

We were worried 2 years in a row that Burton might go pro and potentially be a draft pick and your talking about the best playing job he may ever have is from NIL? I hope not.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

1. He's making in NIL close to what Jacob is in the NBA.

2. What we - the board - think and what the reality of professional basketball are, are entirely separate and unrelated. Yes, we wanted him to stay and also go to the NBA. It may not happen. $500k is a lot of money for a single year. All separate things.

Also, I'm glad to see you admit we are discussing Tyler. Those goalposts bend in the wind.

 

[SFspidur]

It might be close, but I haven't heard a Burton number north of $500k being thrown around. Gilly should be making $560k this season.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

thanks. I'll edit. point remains the same.

 

[PalmTreeSpidUR]

It might be close, but I haven't heard a Burton number north of $500k being thrown around. Gilly should be making $560k this season.

Either way, I would have liked to make that money at their age. I would have liked to make 1/2 of that at their age. In fact, I'd like to make 1/2 of those numbers at MY age.

 

[97spiderfan]

500K is 500K, if you are 21, don't see how you turn that down. Invest that money properly and you have a nice jump start on your retirement. Also, he went to Nova, so I think his draft stock would improve with the chance to be seen more, play against a higher level competition in games and practice and be coached by someone different who might add some new tweaks to his game. Plus he gets the added bonus of having a higher chance of playing in the NCAA.

This was a win-win no matter how you look at it for Burton. Don't begrudge him at all, he gave us 4 years. And here is the kicker, I think it worked for us too. Look at how we are playing now.

 

[MountainSpider]

I don't think Tyler Burton is on the NBA's radar. He certainly doesn't have the stats for it, especially at his age.

Top 100 -- No Burton

He hasn't been a good 3 point shooter since he was told he needed to speed up his release for the NBA.

I remember when we beat Kentucky and one of the announcers said that if Richmond had an NBA player, it was Tyler Burton. Who could have guessed then it would actually be Jacob Gilyard?

Tyler Burton was a very nice player for us for four years, but probably still overrated. How did we do when Gilyard and Golden led the team? How did we do when Burton led the team?

 

[97spiderfan]

I don't think Tyler Burton is on the NBA's radar. He certainly doesn't have the stats for it, especially at his age.

Top 100 -- No Burton

He hasn't been a good 3 point shooter since he was told he needed to speed up his release for the NBA.

I remember when we beat Kentucky and one of the announcers said that if Richmond had an NBA player, it was Tyler Burton. Who could have guessed then it would actually be Jacob Gilyard?

Tyler Burton was a very nice player for us for four years, but probably still overrated. How did we do when Gilyard and Golden led the team? How did we do when Burton led the team?

All good points. Burton is not an NBA player. He is an incredible athlete with great leaping ability, but this jumper in not consistent enough and his handle not strong enough. Almost everyone on an NBA roster is an incredible athlete, you need more than that.

Of course, I didn't think Gilly would make an NBA roster, but Gilly has elite quickness, hands, dribble, so he has some NBA caliber tools. Always thought his size would be the reason he didn't make it, but he has beaten the odds.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

And it also takes something of a perfect situation and opportunity. Jacob got opportunity with the G league affiliate, he’s like a coach on the court which is what you want for the G league, he’ll get on assignment guys all the shots the nba team wants them to have, and his nba parent club had a megastorm of injuries / suspension, creating the opportunity. Jacob also has obviously worked his ass off bettering his skills, shooting 40% from 3 at NBA distance, while keeping the elite level steals and ball possession skills he already had. If I was a coach, I’d want a guy who shoots well, never turns it over and makes great decisions and with whom other players love playing.

That said, Jacob has killed it every step of the way the past couple years to make it happen.

 

[UR80sfan]

500K is 500K, if you are 21, don't see how you turn that down. Invest that money properly and you have a nice jump start on your retirement. Also, he went to Nova, so I think his draft stock would improve with the chance to be seen more, play against a higher level competition in games and practice and be coached by someone different who might add some new tweaks to his game. Plus he gets the added bonus of having a higher chance of playing in the NCAA.

This was a win-win no matter how you look at it for Burton. Don't begrudge him at all, he gave us 4 years. And here is the kicker, I think it worked for us too. Look at how we are playing now.

97, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, If you transfer to a power conference school and excel, it might increase your chance at being drafted into NBA, G league or getting a high paying job overseas.

However, there is also a lot of risk when you transfer including not having the same chemistry with the coach, not fitting well into the new style of play or not fitting in culturally.

I can think of 3 outstanding U of R players that transferred to power conference and 2 saw a dramatic decline in their offensive numbers and we will see at the end of the season how the 3rd ends up.

The bottom line for a very good college player is how good of a job will I get playing basketball after college.

 

[mr.spider]

The bottom line for a very good college player is how good of a job will I get playing basketball after college.

Hopefully there's a little bit of pride in your school involved as well.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Hopefully there's a little bit of pride in your school involved as well.

my main point in the NIL portion of this discussion is that you no longer have to wait for after college to do so. If the NBA is a longshot, take the guarantee in hand from a major conf. team. I appreciate Tyler for 4 years at Richmond, instead of leaving and grinding a $40,000 salary in the G-league, he took more than 10 times that from Nova. Good on him. This is the best salary he was getting this year!

 

[SFspidur]

2 points for Tyler tonight as St. John's whacks 'Nova by 20.