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2023 Bracketology

I know SLU got a Mizzou transfer guard, but it's losing two of its best players. That one seems off.
 
I guess the thought is VCU will continue to reload, they did add 2 transfers from Michigan I believe. But like most teams - it will be interesting to see how their transfers come into their system. I think VCU probably will have an easier time simply because they play a chaotic style, usually play 9-10 guys in a steady rotation, so if your transferring in - your likely going to get a shot to play.
 
SpiderTrap said:
I guess the thought is VCU will continue to reload, they did add 2 transfers from Michigan I believe. But like most teams - it will be interesting to see how their transfers come into their system. I think VCU probably will have an easier time simply because they play a chaotic style, usually play 9-10 guys in a steady rotation, so if your transferring in - your likely going to get a shot to play.
Click to expand...
I'm sure VCU will be fine they always are. The two transfers they added from Michigan were highly touted recruits but neither played significant minutes. They also lost a fair number of players in the portal as well. VCU is on the bubble because of the name of their jersey. Anyone who can predict how all of that change will mesh is just guessing at this point. Kind of like with us. And we did far better in the portal than they did.
 
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Isn't bracketology a full time job, or close to it, for Lunardi? He has to do something in the off season.........................
 
97 - agree that at this point it is hard to predict any level of success at VCU with the in and out action - same could be said for us. As far as discounting their transfers - I don't think you can say we slam dunked them in that regard. If those guys were getting 30 minutes a game in the Patriot League or Southern Conference, may very well have put up some numbers and had lots of suitors. I do like the production our guys had at the D1 level, but watched some Patriot league games this year and there were not many Cayor or Burton type athletes to be found.
 
Its a tale of two transfers - VCU has two guys moving down from Michigan, where they didn't get many minutes, but were likely very highly recruited.

We got guys from lower leagues, who played and put up good numbers - but competition will always be a factor.

I think in the transfer portal, just like recruiting HS kids - you need to try and mix and balance. You want guys with experience at lower levels who have played, but it also doesn't hurt to get a kid moving down looking for better fit and more minutes. Don't think you can rely heavily on one or the other.

I think the difference between VCU and UR is that their style is probably easier to pick up and Rhodes already has no problem playing 9-10 guys regular minutes. So you transfer there, your going to play. UR on the other hand, we tend to favor upperclassmen and guys in the program who know the system, so it will be interesting to see how these new guys fit in and what minutes they get right out of the gate.
 
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Gilyard started all 154 games of his career.
Golden started 152 games out of 161.
Cayo started 124 of 155.
Francis started all 45 healthy games once he got here.
TJ never started a game at Niagra but started 95 out of 102 when he got here.
Ced didn't start as a freshman. Started the next 84 games.
Brothers didn't start as a freshman. Started 102 of the next 103 games.

where does this myth end, that Mooney favors upperclassmen and guys with extensive time in the system? yes, some guys need time to develop, or the opportunity doesn't present itself early. their time comes later. but if you're better than the guys ahead of you, you play over them. as in the examples above. as it should be.
 
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SpiderTrap said:
UR….tend(s)to favor upperclassmen and guys in the program who know the system, so it will be interesting to see how these new guys fit in and what minutes they get right out of the gate.
Click to expand...

Definitely what I am going to be looking for this season. Always heard “best players play”, but the question is if you define best as most talented or those who run the system the best.
 
spiderman said:
Gilyard started all 154 games of his career.
Golden started 152 games out of 161.
Cayo started 124 of 155.
Francis started all 45 healthy games once he got here.
TJ never started a game at Niagra but started 95 out of 102 when he got here.
Ced didn't start as a freshman. Started the next 84 games.
Brothers didn't start as a freshman. Started 102 of the next 103 games.

where does this myth end, that Mooney favors upperclassmen and guys with extensive time in the system? yes, some guys need time to develop, or the opportunity doesn't present itself early. their time comes later. but if you're better than the guys ahead of you, you play over them. as in the examples above. as it should be.
Click to expand...
Out of curiosity...
Did you but these numbers together from multiple sources or are most of them stated in one source?

And I agree with you, other than the fact that Mooney seems to be slightly slow to change starters, most likely from being somewhat risk adverse.
 
urmite said:
Out of curiosity...
Did you but these numbers together from multiple sources or are most of them stated in one source?
Click to expand...
Sports Reference is really good for that sort of stuff. Lots of data that's easy to access. I've found an error here or there, but overall it's good data, and they've been quick to correct errors I've pointed out to them.

www.sports-reference.com

2021-22 Richmond Spiders Men's Roster and Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Check out the detailed 2021-22 Richmond Spiders Roster and Stats for College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
 
RichmondNative said:
Definitely what I am going to be looking for this season. Always heard “best players play”, but the question is if you define best as most talented or those who run the system the best.
Click to expand...
Pretty simple. Those that give you the best chance to win.
 
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spiderman said:
Gilyard started all 154 games of his career.
Golden started 152 games out of 161.
Cayo started 124 of 155.
Francis started all 45 healthy games once he got here.
TJ never started a game at Niagra but started 95 out of 102 when he got here.
Ced didn't start as a freshman. Started the next 84 games.
Brothers didn't start as a freshman. Started 102 of the next 103 games.

where does this myth end, that Mooney favors upperclassmen and guys with extensive time in the system? yes, some guys need time to develop, or the opportunity doesn't present itself early. their time comes later. but if you're better than the guys ahead of you, you play over them. as in the examples above. as it should be.
Click to expand...
Gilyard, Golden, and Cayo - UR was not very good when they got here. Two of Mooney's worse seasons. So saying they started on teams that 12 and 13 games - is not saying too much. We had no one else to beat them out.
Francis - agreed. He played when he got here, but also remember, he did have a whole year to redshirt and practice. So not sure how much that whole year of practice played into it for him. Same with TJ - got to redshirt and practice.

Ced and Brothers - both fit the pattern I might expect to see with the new transfers. Guys ahead of them their first years played the bulk of minutes (we had good teams then). So their first years - there minutes were limited, and then they stepped in the next season when spots opened. Similar to redshirt year - they got time to develop and play in games with limited minutes before being asked to play major role.

With transfers, and portal in general now - to be successful, we may need these transfers to step in and be major contributors from game 1. And that is something Mooney has not done and has not had success with. Not saying it can't be done. But good example would be Grace and Quinn. I think Grace gets the nod early because of what he did last year and familiar with the system. But the fact is - we may need to play Quinn or some of these new guys early on to let them learn and get experience so by A10 time - they are ready to go. If we find Mooney or staff saying - I need to find Bigelow or Roche or Quinn minutes - and its game 10 of the season, we are in trouble.
 
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SpiderTrap said:
If we find Mooney or staff saying - I need to find Bigelow or Roche or Quinn minutes - and its game 10 of the season, we are in trouble.
Click to expand...
he's definitely going to say it about someone. I think he does it intentionally to put the blame on himself as opposed to saying "I know people want to see more of 'player x' but based on practice and limited game action 'player x' is currently 9th or 10th or worse in the rotation and that guy doesn't play much".

on the upperclass thing ... I'm just saying there are plenty of examples where good players play here early on. implying Mooney unjustly favors upperclassmen is just an excuse for why young players might not get time. sometimes they're blocked by really good players ahead of them. that happens everywhere. but it's not like guys are held back because they're young. if they're the best option, they play.
 
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spiderman said:
just used sports-reference.com for everyone:
www.sports-reference.com

Grant Golden College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

Grant Golden - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
Click to expand...
Yeah, I use that for a few things including games played. Don't know why I never looked at games started.

I remember everyone wanted TJ to start his first year. Looking back, it was only 7 games (even if that is half the OOC)...

www.sports-reference.com

T.J. Cline College Stats | College Basketball at Sports-Reference.com

T.J. Cline - Stats, Game Logs, Splits, and much more
www.sports-reference.com www.sports-reference.com
 
spiderman said:
he's definitely going to say it about someone. I think he does it intentionally to put the blame on himself as opposed to saying "I know people want to see more of 'player x' but based on practice and limited game action 'player x' is currently 9th or 10th or worse in the rotation and that guy doesn't play much".

on the upperclass thing ... I'm just saying there are plenty of examples where good players play here early on. implying Mooney unjustly favors upperclassmen is just an excuse for why young players might not get time. sometimes they're blocked by really good players ahead of them. that happens everywhere. but it's not like guys are held back because they're young. if they're the best option, they play.
Click to expand...
When the young players are the best they play. I agree. But usually when that happens at UR - we don't have a good team that year. Last time we lost this many players off an NCAA team - the next 2 season we were 16-16 and 19-15. And we had guys returning from those NCAA teams - guys like Lindsay, Brothers, Martel, Garrett. So not like everyone graduated and we had to play 5 frosh. I just think under Mooney - whether its Mooney, the system, etc - usually new guys thrown into the mix take time to get adjusted. Sometimes that results in less playing time as Mooney hooks them quicker. Or it means we hear - gotta find him minutes.

The transfer portal is different and that is why it will be interesting to see how transfers who have played college ball, but under different system - adjust and will they play right away. By all accounts, with our only big guy returning being Grace - Quinn should play 25+ minutes a night just based on lack of people around him. But will he - and will that result in possibly Grace, the hero of last year - maybe getting less time, even down below 20 minutes possibly if Quinn is as good as advertised.
 
this rebuilt roster feels different than prior rosters after big graduations.
Quinn "should" be better than any big man replacement we've had. not fair to compare him to a 2,000 point guy but I don't expect much if any dropoff.
Bigelow and Roche ... if they earn the opportunity ... have already had success on the college stage.
we have two really talented guys who had minor roles ready to step up in Dji and Connor.
and then there's a higly touted redshirt freshman PG who we have yet to see.

just seems like a more complete rebuild than before, and it surrounds a big timer like Burton and solid guys like Goose and Grace.
 
spider23 said:
97 - agree that at this point it is hard to predict any level of success at VCU with the in and out action - same could be said for us. As far as discounting their transfers - I don't think you can say we slam dunked them in that regard. If those guys were getting 30 minutes a game in the Patriot League or Southern Conference, may very well have put up some numbers and had lots of suitors. I do like the production our guys had at the D1 level, but watched some Patriot league games this year and there were not many Cayor or Burton type athletes to be found.
Click to expand...
23. I hear what you are saying. I'll still say we did made out much better in the portal. VCU brought in 3 guys via the portal.

1. Johns: Michigan transfer. Senior who averaged 3.2 minutes per game in 13 minutes per game, saw his playing time, points and rebounds dip each year at Michigan after his freshman year.
2. Shriver: Hartford transfer: Senior who played 1 year at Hartford (one of the shittiest D-1 team in one of the worst leagues) averaged 10.7 points per game, primarily a three point shooter.
3. Jackson: Michigan Transfer: Rising Junior only played in 4 games this year before transferring mid season, last year played in 16 games and averaged 1 ppg.

Johns and Shriver are most likely rotational pieces who they have for one year. Jackson is the most intriquing as a former 4 star recruit, but he literally did nothing in a season and half at Michigan. But they have him for 3 years.

VCU also lost Ward (who was a starter and major contributor, particularly on defense) and Brown-Jones who was a rotational piece.

Compare that to our transfer haul:

1. Quinn: Lafeyette transfer: Rising Senior leading score and rebounder averaging 14.7 and 7.4, 2nd team all Patriot League
2. Roche: Citadel transfer: Rising Sophomore: Second leading scorer averaging 13.2 ppg, name Southern Conference ROY
3. Bigelow: Wofford transfer: Rising Senior: Averaged 8 points, 5 rebounds a game

We have Quinn and Bigelow for 2 years. Quinn is probably going to start for 2 years for us from day 1 and Bigelow will be a valuable bench piece. Roche is kind of equivalent to Shriver, except we got him for 3 years and he played more minutes and bigger roles as a freshman than Shriver did as a senior, both played for bad programs last year.

We lost a Wilson equivalent to Brown-Jones and Sal who was a bit player (much less of a loss than Ward).

So, on paper, I think we slam dunked them. How everyone performs and plays at their respective teams next year, of course remains to be seen.
 
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spiderman said:
Gilyard started all 154 games of his career.
Golden started 152 games out of 161.
Cayo started 124 of 155.
Francis started all 45 healthy games once he got here.
TJ never started a game at Niagra but started 95 out of 102 when he got here.
Ced didn't start as a freshman. Started the next 84 games.
Brothers didn't start as a freshman. Started 102 of the next 103 games.

where does this myth end, that Mooney favors upperclassmen and guys with extensive time in the system? yes, some guys need time to develop, or the opportunity doesn't present itself early. their time comes later. but if you're better than the guys ahead of you, you play over them. as in the examples above. as it should be.
Click to expand...
My view is that CM doesn’t necessarily favor upperclassmen so much as he favors guys he knows. It’s also noteworthy that in several cases you list above, the cupboard in front of those guys was pretty bare, so I don’t know that it disproves any particular Mooney tendency.
 
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MrTbone said:
My view is that CM doesn’t necessarily favor upperclassmen so much as he favors guys he knows. It’s also noteworthy that in several cases you list above, the cupboard in front of those guys was pretty bare, so I don’t know that it disproves any particular Mooney tendency.
Click to expand...
Isn't saying 'the cupboard in front of those guys was pretty bare' just another way of saying the freshmen were the best players at their positions? That only happens when 'the cupboard is bare', or with incredibly exceptional players.
 
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fan2011 said:
Isn't saying 'the cupboard in front of those guys was pretty bare' just another way of saying the freshmen were the best players at their positions? That only happens when 'the cupboard is bare', or with incredibly exceptional players.
Click to expand...
That’s exactly what it means. I think people want to ding CM for playing upperclassmen over potentially more talented underclassmen. I also think people want to credit CM for playing freshmen when he had no better options given poor recruiting in prior years.

It seems rather likely that he’s no more biased than any other coach towards experienced players , than he is particularly savant-like in identifying youthful talent.
 
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I'm not giving him credit for playing freshmen. I'm just arguing against the upperclass bias myth.

I think we all want to believe every new guy is awesome and ready, but I can't think of anyone that unjustly sat as an underclassman ... unless we count TJ for the 7 games or so he didn't start. I guess the big complaint relates to Mooney sticking with Deion longer than people wanted.
 
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All I am saying is that under Mooney, our teams have been successful when it is full of upperclassmen who have played a lot together. Anderson, Geriot, Butler, and Gonzo and Harper played a lot together because early on UR was not very good. Same was true for this past group of super seniors who even got an extra year added cause of COVID.
Under Mooney we have not had success when supporting guys are asked to step up and play a significant role, or when just added all new pieces - which in past cases would have been playing a young roster.

NOW - the transfer portal changes that, cause you get guys with experience elsewhere who can play right away. So can they step in and be ready day 1 - we will find out.

We do have Burton as our centerpiece, but I have two concerns with him - that I think he can overcome, but will need the help of Mooney and staff to do so. 1) Teams will now gameplan to stop him. I don't think before teams worked to stop him because we have Golden and Gilyard, and even Cayo at times to worry about. But now - teams will see him as priority #1 and work to make life difficult. He will be the center of attention of all scouting reports for our opponents. 2) Unlike in past years where our main guys to step up when players graduated was our PG, Burton needs help to get the ball in a position where he can score. He needs the offense to run through the post, swing the ball and get it on the wing for him to be dangerous. Unlike previous guys like Gilyard, Kendall Anthony, Ced Lindsay - who all did well when it was their time to play - but they controlled the ball and could make their own opportunities. Burton will need the coaching staff to get the offensive sets to get him the ball in key spots he can score and the other guys around him need to know - get him the ball, work to get him shots.

Typically under Mooney - our best player has always been our small guard (Anderson, Lindsay, Anthony, Gilyard) - but now, our best player is on the wing, and not a ballhandler - so he needs help to get the ball in spots he can be dangerous.
 
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You know you've been waiting for it...another Lunardi update!

He's moved Dayton with the AQ up from 5 to 4 and moved SLU up from 8 to 7. Loyola has moved up to first four out, while VCU dropped off the next four out list.

Other opponents: St. John's (potential) at 10, Toledo at 12 (AQ), and Drake at 13 (AQ).

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
 
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SFspidur said:
You know you've been waiting for it...another Lunardi update!

He's moved Dayton with the AQ up from 5 to 4 and moved SLU up from 8 to 7. Loyola has moved up to first four out, while VCU dropped off the next four out list.

Other opponents: St. John's (potential) at 10, Toledo at 12 (AQ), and Drake at 13 (AQ).

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
Meh…👎🏼 Meaningless really but hey what else we going to do😃🕷🏀
 
SFspidur said:
You know you've been waiting for it...another Lunardi update!

He's moved Dayton with the AQ up from 5 to 4 and moved SLU up from 8 to 7. Loyola has moved up to first four out, while VCU dropped off the next four out list.

Other opponents: St. John's (potential) at 10, Toledo at 12 (AQ), and Drake at 13 (AQ).

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
I didn’t see our name anywhere.
 
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SFspidur said:
Time for another Lunardi update!

He pushed Dayton back down to a 5 while SLU holds steady at a 7. Loyola has slid back to next four out.

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
Lunardi, if you want to publish an offseason bracket, we all know it is utterly meaningless clickbait to justify your paycheck, but fine whatever enough will indulge. But to update your offseason bracket regularly during the summer is peak screaming, "I'm still relevant, look at me, look at me".

So, lets see, I'm moving Dayton up to a 5 between June and July and Loloya back to the next four out line, but yet absolutely nothing has changed in the last month at all, but I gotta make the bracket look different just cause.
 
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Been a while since this thread was active, but Lunardi updated his bracketology this morning and while there's still a lot of season left, it's not looking good for the A-10 so far. SLU has the auto bid as an 11-seed and...that's it. Nobody else even made the first 8 out.

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
 
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SFspidur said:
Been a while since this thread was active, but Lunardi updated his bracketology this morning and while there's still a lot of season left, it's not looking good for the A-10 so far. SLU has the auto bid as an 11-seed and...that's it. Nobody else even made the first 8 out.

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
As you said, it's early!!
 
SFspidur said:
Been a while since this thread was active, but Lunardi updated his bracketology this morning and while there's still a lot of season left, it's not looking good for the A-10 so far. SLU has the auto bid as an 11-seed and...that's it. Nobody else even made the first 8 out.

www.espn.com

Men's Bracketology: Duke plus Cooper Flagg makes Blue Devils early overall No. 1

Bracketology begins the off season projections with a familiar name at the top. Duke, led by generational recruit Cooper Flagg, starts our 2024-25 bracket cycle on top.
www.espn.com
Click to expand...
First team out, UAB thanks to loss to Toledo...
 
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