2022-2023 Season outlook
- Thread starter SpiderDad75
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Tyler as a freshman was very productive per minute played. About 2/3 of the way through the season he would have crazy point/rebound to minutes played ratios, like 10 and 6 in 13 minutes. So probably he's not the best example - he was just on a very good team with Blake, a healthy Nick, Goose, and minutes were tight until he showed he deserved more than the 5-6 per half he was getting.
Honestly, for Moon though - do not ever turn the ball over if you're a bench guy, especially in the first 60-90 seconds. Try to make plays but be secure with the ball in doing so.
We all know Moon hates turnovers, predicates his philosophy around great turnover ratio and no fastbreak points allowed. So if you come in and gift the other team a bucket via an awful pass - you know what direction to run, straight to the bench. It's not like the team doesn't know this. Gilly could have a few turnovers bc he played like top 5 minutes in the ncaa and had a bazillion touches a game. The same isn't true for a spot minutes guy and they shouldn't be given the same leniency as a guy like Gilly or guys who have proven themselves.
For all his timeout stubbornness, you can't accuse Moon of losing a game because he stuck with a guy not ready for the moment who blundered the other team into a big run.
Again, this is nothing new, Harper had that hook until his junior year and he played in the NBA. Harp didn't turn the ball over as an upperclassman and stopped playing passively. Was it because of the quick hook? Well he sure learned what not to do his first 2 years.
Honestly, for Moon though - do not ever turn the ball over if you're a bench guy, especially in the first 60-90 seconds. Try to make plays but be secure with the ball in doing so.
We all know Moon hates turnovers, predicates his philosophy around great turnover ratio and no fastbreak points allowed. So if you come in and gift the other team a bucket via an awful pass - you know what direction to run, straight to the bench. It's not like the team doesn't know this. Gilly could have a few turnovers bc he played like top 5 minutes in the ncaa and had a bazillion touches a game. The same isn't true for a spot minutes guy and they shouldn't be given the same leniency as a guy like Gilly or guys who have proven themselves.
For all his timeout stubbornness, you can't accuse Moon of losing a game because he stuck with a guy not ready for the moment who blundered the other team into a big run.
Again, this is nothing new, Harper had that hook until his junior year and he played in the NBA. Harp didn't turn the ball over as an upperclassman and stopped playing passively. Was it because of the quick hook? Well he sure learned what not to do his first 2 years.
sman - I don't remember who played the back of that 1-3-1. Dobbins, Skrocki, Reggie Brown, Ungerer and Zwayer were starters, right? Did Jeff Myers come off the bench? I don't remember.
My guess is Ungerer because as a 6'7" guard he could see the court well and call out the cutters and movement from the back (also bc he was prob too slow to play the wings on a 131) but I really don't remember.
My guess is Ungerer because as a 6'7" guard he could see the court well and call out the cutters and movement from the back (also bc he was prob too slow to play the wings on a 131) but I really don't remember.
VT you didn’t answer the question and secondly what is considered great for you? You like to throw around stats but you lose sight of the game itself. You don’t have to shoot 40% from 3 to be great. There are things that have to be done on the court besides shooting. By all accounts I would say no you haven’t and it’s super easy to use the old google machine. But you need to watch more🏀 based on some of your comments. Do you know what the plus- minus is?? and who were some of our best on the team?? It’s a super important factor in todays game. But if it doesn’t fit the stat narrative players xyz weren’t a factor or any good. I def don’t know everything about the game but I do know a lot and some of things that you talk about is just 🤦🏼♂️ Sometimes we should use our eyes instead the stat sheet and google machine to see who can play and who is impacting the game. Because by your logic if you score 4 pts or not chucking a high rate of 3s you haven’t really done anything.
Hey they played two games with one being decided by a walk off. I did not say they had double doubles but they gave us a glimpse of what we had not seen because they were buried on the bench. They had positive contributions in each game that gave us a chance. Were you even posting back then or were you tutoring students struggling in statistics class. You only and solely go by stats but sports mental conditioning is what ultimately drives the athlete and that is the point several of us are driving at. Unfortunately many coaches create negative mental conditioning with many players who never reach their potential.
Before you say it, I have no idea where Mooney lands in this spectrum. Is he one that chews you out constantly but has the skill to bring you back up to the right mind set and give you hope. Personally I think he is tough but knows when to provide positive reinforcement just based on players wanting to come back.
What’re you disagreeing with? If the bench doesn’t produce they come out? That’s factual. You can produce in different ways. But if you make a play one possession then get driven by the next… are you producing in your mind?
Waiting on your definition of producing…and the quick hook is coming mostly from bench guys making TOs.
As a former high school basketball coach, when bench players are inserted in a game, if they make mistakes that are emphasized by to a player for a specific error, it is responsibility to learn from the bench so he will not repeat the same mistake. I use tat time as a teachable moment for him or her.
I remember going to a game in the old URI gym. Reggie Brown was playing the back alot in that game. Hit the game winner too after picking up his dribble and was well contested.
Yes, one thing with moon, saw too many times certain guys get blown by as primary defender, and nothing said or player pulled. Maybe it was addressed at half time or later on the bench, but the quick hook came right away. That's just my preference that he emphasize defense more. I'm not necessarily criticizing quick hook for turnovers, just do the same for bad or lack of effort defensive plays.
Not anywhere close to accurate. I think you can impact a game a lot of ways, and yes, even more than scoring and 3s, and I have said that about someone plenty of times on here. Sounds like you want me to get on here and say a guy who scored 5 points with 3 turnovers and 1 assist in 31 NIT minutes played great, but sorry, I just can't do that. Regardless of defense or all these other things you want to throw out there, sorry, to me, what I saw out there was not greatness. I never once said Dji or Wilson played bad then, but here you are getting on me because I don't think they played great? Seriously? So, please share with me what I missed about Dji and Wilson during the 2 NIT games. You think they played great? Fine, we can disagree. You say I need to watch more basketball based on my comments, but I am starting to think you need to be a lot less biased based on your comments.
Seems like you often take up for guys who can't shoot the 3 and can't score.
its not high school basketball here. Leave them in and they back it again. Then we’ve had 2 bad possessions because of a bench player and we lose by 4, then we’re putting moon on a billboard.
Producing is making plays, assists/hockey assists, scoring/making open shots WHILE NOT getting scored on or getting beat to the basket OR turning it over. It’s not producing if you’re out there and a guy misses a shot on you? You have to do something yourself? You can’t be a zero.
If Nick and Wilson check in and Sherod makes 5 threes in a row and Wilson doesn’t get scored on but doesn’t make any plays, both their plus minus goes up but it’s because of nick. Not because of Wilson. For as much basketball as you claim to watch, it sounds like you haven’t watched much college hoops
The post you copied said I said what you replied to, but it was not me. But, I agree with your reply here.
I’m with you. Those are solid examples and lack of effort absolutely has to be addressed. When it comes to the TOs, was it a bad TO, time within the game, was it another teammates fault that caused the TO etc... I believe the things we are discussing are addressed just bc we don’t see them doesn’t mean coach they aren’t. I always talk with Dji after a game to get insight whether he played a little, a lot, or not at all. Those convos are always great for an outsider & lover of the game. To go back to your first point…I’m a defensive guy too as I’ve stated many times. As a former coach if I used my bench, I often did it early bc it can’t hurt you too bad and I think it’s a win win for me and the player if he does what I need them to do. I’m not entirely sure how coach thinks but when I would sub I told them hey…I need you to rebound or box out or this guy doesn’t need to touch the ball, that’s it. If that player does it, great if he can’t do it then I need to get him outta there & bc it’s early I don’t get punished as much with someone with lesser talent but that’s just me. Every coach has their own philosophy when it comes to the game.
Thank you, you are absolutely right in your 1st half of your statement. You caught me 🫣I just started watching college hoops Djis Fr year 😶 You kinda remind me of some of my students and their parents…You watch a History Channel doc and now your a PHD in History…I can dig it
I like Goose, but I don't have him anywhere near our top 2 players. Roche and Quinn have both done much more on a college basketball court than Goose has.
this is big boy basketball. yes, getting pulled is tough on confidence. not getting pulled but failing again is tough on confidence too. Mooney does put you back in eventually. you get future chances. Zay for example got many. at some point, you run out. a lot of our young guys who got pulled quick go on and become really good players. but yes, bad turnovers have repercussions.
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Wow. So you asked him a question about producing. Then, you sent him another post saying you were waiting on his answer about what producing means. So, he gives you his answer, and you reply with this? It's like you couldn't wait for him to answer so you could give this pre thought of reply. C'mon man. Do better. This doesn't sound like the same, unbiased "say what you want because I get it" guy who has been posting here in the past.
Not sure if Goose is top 2, but we have plenty of hours seeing him firsthand in action at UR, in the A10, and in our system. Roche & Quinn hopefully will be the players we expect them to be & become major contributors. However, we have video & stats on them at this point. For the most part, they played against lower level competition in their respective conferences.
I'm not sure it's a fair statement to make that "Roche and Quinn have both done much more on a college basketball court than Goose has." That would take further examination, & it goes beyond pure metrics.
8legs1dream
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dude just shut up already, Jesus. You are insufferably whiny.
I'm pretty confident that all metrics will say Roche and Quinn are better offensive players than Goose and Grace.
the only question is whether Roche can defend. and if not at Goose's level, then is the gap big enough to offset the offensive difference.
the only question is whether Roche can defend. and if not at Goose's level, then is the gap big enough to offset the offensive difference.
Yes…so Sman how do we use players that are great offensively but not so great defensively. Not Roche per say but players that may fit the scoring mold but can’t guard your lunch. It’s a fine line I think esp if guys like Roche who can shoot the cover off the ball.(I’m not saying Roche can’t defend) We need that scoring but need to be able to stop someone at least every now and then to keep them honest…that would be a coach thing, right? Is it similar to Nick last year? Hide them best you can or live with it? We all know that Nick was a better player before the injuries but just using him as an example for defense.
With how our OOC schedule looks it seems like we’ll have a lot of minutes against bad teams to figure out the defense
I can't calculate it mathematically but there's a certain value each player has when on the floor. you can help a team just as much being a good team defender as a good offensive player. poor defense offsets good offense, and vice versa.
guys who have the best combined "score" on both sides of the ball will help a team the most. we don't actually have a good metric for this (+/- is obviously flawed) and a lot of the time it's not obvious ... or it's at least debatable.
I do get things but that doesn’t mean I am suppose to agree and just be happy about every little thing…I agreed with the first half of his post about producing. The second part was laughable to me and I get that too. But you think I’m suppose to be like “golly gee oh K you’re absolutely right I don’t know anything.” Cool..I’m pretty unbiased about bball in general but yeah I’m biased with my son I can separate. I can also ask questions. I’m starting to understand a little more though…
Fair and appreciate that answer. If we have those guys that struggle defensively then esp against stronger teams I personally would go defense 1st and strategically insert our offensive threats.
Yeah think you’re right on that. We can turn that into a positive I think.
agreed, it's a balance. I'm hoping guys like Bigelow and Roche are good on both sides of the ball.
While I think its certainly a balance, I think at UR for the past many years, the number one thing is whether or not you can execute the offense and how well you can do that. Not offense in general etc. and not just be a shooter etc. but how well do you run the Mooney system and make the right reads, get to the right spots, set the right screens etc. I think this is far and away the biggest factor in getting playing time on a Mooney UR team.
In general, I think Mooney is much more about NOT making mistakes than he is about actually making plays. So a guy who can make some plays, but also make frequent mistakes will struggle to get time. In some programs, the guy with the ability to make plays will get a much longer leash in hopes the mistakes can be minimized over time. Some places the learning comes from making mistakes and getting the chances to keep making them in hopes you don't. Here you hopefully learn to not make mistakes from making them and finding your butt on the bench as a result! I have an opinion on this, but both are philosophies that many coaches (good and bad) have adopted. Just saying that as a factual matter, we are of the no mistakes side of things.
In general, I think Mooney is much more about NOT making mistakes than he is about actually making plays. So a guy who can make some plays, but also make frequent mistakes will struggle to get time. In some programs, the guy with the ability to make plays will get a much longer leash in hopes the mistakes can be minimized over time. Some places the learning comes from making mistakes and getting the chances to keep making them in hopes you don't. Here you hopefully learn to not make mistakes from making them and finding your butt on the bench as a result! I have an opinion on this, but both are philosophies that many coaches (good and bad) have adopted. Just saying that as a factual matter, we are of the no mistakes side of things.
I am not giving a pass for Mooney’s petty handshake/no handshake antics on the sidelines, but speaking of giving players the hook. Who has ever been faster yanking players out after a mistake than Dick Tarrant? He would call a time out to get you out of the game and use some of that New Jersey language on you. Tarrant didn’t cover his mouth to cuss you out like Mooney does. The whole stadium knew when it was coming.
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“While I think its certainly a balance, I think at UR for the past many years, the number one thing is whether or not you can execute the offense and how well you can do that. Not offense in general etc. and not just be a shooter etc. but how well do you run the Mooney system and make the right reads, get to the right spots, set the right screens etc. I think this is far and away the biggest factor in getting playing time on a Mooney UR team.”
This is very on point.
I know we don't know as much about Roche's defense but the default argument seems to be that because he is a lock down shooter that he might not be a great defender. They guy played 36 minutes per year (which is Gilly level minutes) last year as a freshman, if he was that big of a liability he wouldn't have been on the court that much.
I don't know who starts next year, but Roche is gonna be eating some major minutes next year.
I don't know who starts next year, but Roche is gonna be eating some major minutes next year.
Agree, and last year the SoCon was the 11th ranked conference in the country, while the a10 was 10th. So he basically was playing at the same level.
This is why I think a lineup of 3 transfers is not going to happen until mid-season at best. One of the three is likely just due to a lack of options, but I don’t see Mooney playing program newcomers over experienced system players right from the start. I know most are talking about who is going to score, but I don’t even know if that is an issue to Mooney.
I think whoever runs the system the best plays and since there is so little to base a guess on at this point I have no guess. It would be fun to watch some of the summer practices to get a more educated guess.
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