why? best players play. if a Nelson/Dji combo is more productive than a Neson/Goose combo, why would you get on Mooney?
2022-2023 Season outlook
- Thread starter SpiderDad75
- Start date
I was trying to be funny. But, I would wonder why we had 2 of Goose, Roche, or Bigelow on the bench. I mean, maybe a few minutes here and there if we have foul trouble or something, but I just can't make the Nelson/Dji combo make sense when we have what looks like better options. Of course, the best players play. But, the lineups have to make sense too. But, what changed from last year? It's not like Goose and Dji were close and Goose barely beat out Dji for playing time last year. And, it's not just Goose who sits. If you want Nelson/Dji together, that means Roche or Bigelow sits with Goose.
Last edited:
I say that my head will explode when Nelson plays more time at center than Quinn...
don't know. maybe Dji is better. maybe nothing changed and Goose beats him out.
can't evaluate Dji without getting a good look at him. I'm not one who believes in giving guys game time to evaluate. you evaluate all the time. now, all through the fall, and in season. all these players better believe that. just because you played last year doesn't guarantee you anything.
Just curious. If you guys had to choose today, what would the minute break down player be? I have seen some breakdowns that include 9-10 players which sounds nice in offseason, but not sure if you could find a time in recent years where that many played real minutes outside of there being a big drop off/foul trouble/injury
I have done that excercise in past years, with pretty good results. Lot harder this season I think. I have 9 players with pretty big minutes:
Nelson | 20 |
Roche | 19 |
Burton | 35 |
Bigelow | 24 |
Quinn | 28 |
Grace | 20 |
Goose | 24 |
Dji | 20 |
Crabtree | 10 |
Dji was injured day before Davidson game and never really recovered. I know you will probably say those 8-10 min a game he was getting would have gone or away or something else but nothing leads me to believe that based on his play and feedback he was getting. Health is what changed if we have to pinpoint something. Zay won’t be sitting imo either. Dji is fully healthy now, so to me that what’s changed.
Another reason Nelson and Dji are getting getting practice time together would be in case Goose got hurt. He has had an injury history, and there would be plenty of times where we would need a couple good ball handlers out there together.
I think some of the scenario’s of the Dji/Nelson splitting backcourt time are interesting. I don’t doubt it will be split to some capacity, but realistically, when has it ever been truly split? It’s fair to say we are not sure what exactly the minutes will look like, but realistically, there is going to be a top 8 that separate themselves minutes wise, just like every year.
In my personal opinion, the biggest question mark is Nelson. If he handles the team, the team has a shot to finish in the top 5-6. But, like I said, Mooney trusts people and rewards that, which means if the trust is there with Nelson, Dji’s minutes are tough to find with the trust obviously already being there for Gustavson in the backcourt
In my personal opinion, the biggest question mark is Nelson. If he handles the team, the team has a shot to finish in the top 5-6. But, like I said, Mooney trusts people and rewards that, which means if the trust is there with Nelson, Dji’s minutes are tough to find with the trust obviously already being there for Gustavson in the backcourt
I agree and think this is a valid point. My only concern for some of the stuff that i have read is that this would be the back up scenario and not the preferred one
Maybe but it seems that you are trying to rationalize it as Dji isn’t good enough to beat out anyone…Goose, Roche, etc. That’s cool and par for the bball course, everyone has their own thoughts. Again, lot of time left 98 days until tip. I’m just going to sit back and enjoy the summer and the buildup to the season. At the end of the day social media/MBs don’t matter, none of our opinions matter. It’s what’s produced on the floor in front of Coach.
I just don't see how it's some crazy opinion of mine if I don't think Dji can beat those guys out. I look at it like my saying Dji won't beat those guys out is no different than if I said Sal or Wilson wouldn't beat guys out the last couple years. Sal and Wilson played a little here and there their first 2 years just like Dji did. All 3 have had proven guys in front of them. I'm not saying it's impossible for him to beat them out. Just that I would be surprised, that's all. I think that's fair.
could go either way, but I can easily see Dji beating out Goose. I know some think Goose is an all-world defender, but from the little I've seen I think it's close to a wash on that end. and I think Dji has substantially better vision and handle. we need to see if Dji can score a bit. but I'm not giving Goose the role just because he's the incumbent any more than I'm giving Grace the job.
beating Roche is a tougher call to me just because of how good a shooter Roche is. I've never seen his handle or defense, so I can't make that call yet.
beating Roche is a tougher call to me just because of how good a shooter Roche is. I've never seen his handle or defense, so I can't make that call yet.
Somebody said it earlier in this thread, but during Goose's freshman year, during one of the 2-3 games Gilyard didn't play in his career, he had 10 assists (against a Big East team), which I think has happened maybe once or twice since TJ. Think it may be a little unfair to determine that he has substantially worse vision and handle.
Are you saying you don't think it will be a 20/20 split at PG? I agree with that, but not that they can't be on the court together.
Now I just need to drive down to Richmond for the next work outs and sneak in and I will give my stronger opinion
I didn't know/remember that. very interesting. maybe that's a better role for him than SG. worth a look anyway.
Yeah 20/20 split I agree with y’all. They’ve been the 2 guards on the court together consistently with the ones. Goose was there and practicing, Roche was there and practicing but not with the ones all the time. But I can say Dji has been all summer. What does this mean? 🤷🏼♂️ maybe nothing but based on Djis time there Coach has done the same thing each summer so I’m going off that belief and track record. But I guess it’s still a guessing game until Nov 7. 😀🕷🏀Are you saying you don't think it will be a 20/20 split at PG? I agree with that, but not that they can't be on the court together.
Now I just need to drive down to Richmond for the next work outs and sneak in and I will give my stronger opinion
just looked up that Georgetown game. somehow we gave them a game. and it was a decent Georgetown team too. anyone remember?
we played 8 guys and got nothing from the bench in 23 total minutes (Yates, Grace, Koureissi).
Goose started at point with Julius Johnson and Jake Wojik on the wings. Cayo and Golden in the front court.
on paper that's not pretty. but only lost 90-82.
10 Assists in 39 minutes against Georgetown?
36 Assists in 641 minutes the rest of the season
218 Assists in 1597 minutes last 3 seasons.
So capable but consistency isn't a given.
Dji would have had 11 assists in that game.
Just kidding guys. 12.
That was the game that started Goose down the road to being Gkiller's favorite player.
Will be very very interesting to see how the minutes get divied up. Sounds like Dji and Nelson both getting a lot of opportunity now. I understand 4700's point that this is just summer - but you would think Mooney would try to start building some chemistry for Quinn/Grace/Bigelow/Burton and the guards?? I still have trouble believing Goose gets less than 25 min/game (oops i have 24 predicted above) based on his play down the stretch, and Mooney's loyalty. Something has to give. Still seems to be enough to go around - except for RAndolph/Dread and Noyes.
Just kidding guys. 12.
That was the game that started Goose down the road to being Gkiller's favorite player.
Will be very very interesting to see how the minutes get divied up. Sounds like Dji and Nelson both getting a lot of opportunity now. I understand 4700's point that this is just summer - but you would think Mooney would try to start building some chemistry for Quinn/Grace/Bigelow/Burton and the guards?? I still have trouble believing Goose gets less than 25 min/game (oops i have 24 predicted above) based on his play down the stretch, and Mooney's loyalty. Something has to give. Still seems to be enough to go around - except for RAndolph/Dread and Noyes.
Even more surprising Hoyas had 24 assists, 8 turnovers, and shot 44% from three...
Was Goose defending Mac McClung?
I was at that game with a friend and didn’t recall the 10 assists until it was pointed out yesterday … can’t remember who guarded Mac
While it was a good game and we had a chance to win, overall I must say I preferred the next 4 games I watched live at Capitol One arena.
I would be a fan of lineups that had Goose at the 3 as suggested here (with Burton at 4). Then bigelow gets minutes at both spots backing up and Grace is probably a pretty straight backup at the 5. Opens time for roche and DJII at 2 (DJII also see time at the point) and our rotation is pretty short and tight like Moon likes it. It also allows us to put a much better defensive team on the court when burton plays 4 vs. 3 and Goose is out there too. Still a lot of defensive unknowns with Nelson and roche. But i will keep saying this - - - I do NOT like lineups with Grace at 4 and Burton at 3 (with quinn as well) no matter who we play at the the guards and I really fear lineups with that group up front and Roche (admittedly based on limited game tape i have seen) in the lineup too.
well who are the other 3?...that would factor into what it means.
we'll see I think it means we have lot of good options, hopefully a good problem to have.
On flip side...u said in past that what u do in practice really doesn't matter to Mooney...so could mean very little. Or could be placeholder for when Goose was back home. Burton has a placeholder too since he's injured & we all know he'll still start.
Mooney has called Goose an elite defender & the best defender on our team multiple times.
Dji would have had 11 assists in that game.
Just kidding guys. 12.
That was the game that started Goose down the road to being Gkiller's favorite player.
Lol. U just earned a Waygooooose burger @ Pig Beach. It's a new special there.
But I can't pinpoint that game. Never even saw it; just the highlights. It was the only time Goose ran the point a whole game here.
You are wrong on this, maybe you read it wrong...TB worked out all summer...had the surgery at the end. Goose was here and practiced 1st part of summer left came back then was working out again. I believe that coach is loyal to veteran guys so yeah sometimes maybe what you do in practice may not count every time. Now Dji is 2 yr guy and a vet but not by game experience. But hey, I could be wrong. There are no other "3" the 3 was the option the poster listed.
Yes it was July 20 per Richmond pr release. But he will miss some time when they get back this summer in Aug into early Sept. That's what I meant & I may have not articulated it very well, but I was looking ahead to when guys return.
Also I was not referring to any options presented. You said those 2 were running with the starters, so I was asking who were the other 3 guys running with the ones.
Last edited:
Good question. If it looks like we already have our 1s (in early August), then who are the other 3?
Not sure which poster you mean since we have had so many possible lineups on here. I think what a couple of us are wondering is, if Nelson and Dji are with the "1s", who are the other 3 guys out there with them? How can there be no other 3 guys if they are "running with the 1s"? So, do we already have set 1s? Are Nelson and Goose not running together? Or, Dji and Goose? Or, Nelson with Roche, Dji with Roche, or Goose with Roche? I guess it is just a little confusing when I see Nelson and Dji are running with the 1s without more info about it. You obviously would have more info than we do, so the more you can share, maybe the less confused or unsure we will be?
Last edited:
Yep. And, has said he has the ability to guard pretty much any player out there. All you have to do is watch the games. And, an elite defender like him needs to be on the floor.
Re which poster - He responded to Gkiller in his thread … 99 or so days when we all can thankfully stop the speculation and see the rotation which I am virtually sure is going to be dynamic based on how the lineup and each individual is producing - Go Spiders.
I have probably changed this a little each time I have posted it, but will try again. Keeping in mind that these are averages, and we will see games dramatically different than these numbers.
Nelson 26
Goose 30
Bigelow 22
Burton 36
Quinn 24
Roche 22
Grace 22
Dji 10
Crabtree 8
Hard to predict minutes for Randolph, Noyes, and Dread right now, but it will be great if they are good enough where they can get some rotation time this year. The good news is with their redshirts, they are only freshman, so they have plenty of time to be factors here.
Nelson and Dji are at 36, so this leaves 4 minutes at PG for Goose.
Quinn and Grace are at 46, so this leaves 6 minutes for Grace and Quinn together.
Last edited:
I know who he he responded to. I was talking about his comment at the end about some other poster. But, to be fair here, I am not the one talking about running with the 1s and leaving everyone guessing out there. I am just giving my opinion. If someone like SDad has more info, I would love to hear it, instead of being teased a little.
As for the speculation, I love it. What else do we have to talk about 100 days before our 1st game? If we can't talk possible lineups and playing time, that would make for a quiet board the next few months.
Last edited:
Based on the various comments SpiderDad has made it seems to me the 1s could be:
Nelson
Bailey
Bigelow
Burton
Quinn
That of course is going to drive VT4700 crazy. There is no doubt to me that Dji has lost time in the past because of Goose and because of injury. I like Goose as a player, but he is not an elite defender to me. He may be elite for the Spiders however and that is why he played last year. This year there are different options and different needs, so we will see what happens. The only thing I am sure about is that we are going to see a number of new rotations and time well tell which one is the best. I just hope the rotations are managed better because there definitely have been times where I had no idea why certain players were on the floor together.
Nelson
Bailey
Bigelow
Burton
Quinn
That of course is going to drive VT4700 crazy. There is no doubt to me that Dji has lost time in the past because of Goose and because of injury. I like Goose as a player, but he is not an elite defender to me. He may be elite for the Spiders however and that is why he played last year. This year there are different options and different needs, so we will see what happens. The only thing I am sure about is that we are going to see a number of new rotations and time well tell which one is the best. I just hope the rotations are managed better because there definitely have been times where I had no idea why certain players were on the floor together.
Not opining on starters, but a defensive team, when demanded by game situation, of Dji, Goose, Bigelow, Burden, and Quinn has appeal. Length, height, and speed in most, but not all positions.
