Why Starters will not transfer after next year if Mooney stays
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I like that question...........would be negative and totally in your face, but hopefully not resorting to violence.......................haha.............
They do seem to answer questions directed at the other one quite a bit. If not the same, probably in the same room or in adjoining cubicles in the Robins Center.
I won't share my W2's or 1099's but I'm all for finding out who 4700 is. I propose a conference call with 97, Gkiller, Brocolli, Fan1, 05, Moliva and 4700. If spiderman wants to join, he can as well.
There has recently been a lot of discussion about potential transfers next year with 3 players graduating. I am going to expand this post to include them. I think there is a very high probability that Mooney is going to be around until at least his contract is over, which should reduce the probability of any of the starters transferring after next year. This assumes we have a decent year next year. The players seem to like the coach a lot and are optimistic on the future of the team.
At the end of next year, with all the players coming back and the addition of Crabtree, the players will think they have a good shot at making the NCAAs.
I have some concern about the players whose minutes get cutback transferring to get more playing time. However with 5 players leaving the team in 2 years there will be plenty of starting position that will need to be fill.
At the end of next year, with all the players coming back and the addition of Crabtree, the players will think they have a good shot at making the NCAAs.
I have some concern about the players whose minutes get cutback transferring to get more playing time. However with 5 players leaving the team in 2 years there will be plenty of starting position that will need to be fill.
I think comfort is a tough condition to overcome. If these guys like the coach which seems to be the case, have incumbency on starting positions, and “Hope” then they’ll stay. Someone like Khwan probably realized we weren’t going to be great last year and he had one shot to play at a big time program. Those are compelling reasons to consider a grad transfer.
I think you’re more right than wrong if your assumptions come to pass. Decent sized “if” though.
+1. I share this concern and if this happens then we are right back where we started - no depth. Bringing in one freshman and one transfer this year and having an open scholarship doesn't suggest recruiting prowess. Can UR build a sustainable, winning program? Of course, the first step is to reverse the trend of the last two years......
Keith Oddo loved Mooney and was his most vocal defender. He stood a decent chance of having a scholarship again this year. He thinks we are going to be a tournament team. He transferred.
Khwan liked Mooney by all accounts too. He could have been a key part of our team last year. He transferred.
Khwan liked Mooney by all accounts too. He could have been a key part of our team last year. He transferred.
I didn't realize the other 700 grad transfers left because they did not like their coach. Or, am I missing your point here.
I think the point is that just liking the coach isn’t a strong indicator of a grad transfer’s likelihood to stay home for the fifth year. That was one of 80sfan’s reasons.
Mr. Tbone, I like a lot of your posts, however I respectfully disagree. There are many factors a player considers relative to transferring and one of them is the coach. When a coach leaves it increases the probability of players leaving. Just look what happened to VA Tech among many examples. One of the main reasons none of the players that got decent playing time this past year did not transfer was due to their relationship with the coach.
Since this is a forum where differences in opinions are discussed, I will throw my differing opinion in the ring.
80sfan you said that the 3 potential grad transfers are likely to stay since (a) it appears that Mooney will keep his job until his contact ends and (b) because liking the coach is a main reason that players stay.
Point A - I agree with you that IF Mooney is fired then there is one less reason for the potential grad transfers to stay (ie they have a greater chance of transferring).
Point B - As other posters have noted (8leg, Tbone, Broc), liking the coach does not seem to matter based on recent history (Fore, Oddo). To me, liking CM is going to be the least significant factor on whether they stay or go. The primary factors are going to be (1) how well does the team fare this year (2) what other options does each player have and at least in the case of Nick (3) health.
Our own recent history disproves the importance of liking the coach as a retention factor. Does it help? Absolutely. Just not as much as I think you might hope.
Since we haven't won much the past couple years, and still have had less grad transfers than most schools, wouldn't that mean liking the coach must be more of a factor for us and actually backs his theory up better?
You can only list two examples, with one being a walk on to back up your point? Seems like this backs up 80s point.
In the last ten years name the players that have transferred from UR for a grad year, and the ones that stayed following graduation.
Okay. Thanks for the reply. I guess I am wrong again and you, as usual, are right.
I wouldn't know which of our guys stayed after graduating, but we do know that not many have left. With summer classes, most guys could graduate in 3 years if they wanted to be a grad transfer and get out of here badly enough. But, no big deal. You and others can think we have a grad transfer problem, while I don't. We can just disagree.
Since I know that you wouldn't ask a question like this if you didn't know the answer, how about you telling us?
Are you confusing regular transfers with grad transfers? You mentioned 700 is another post. 700 grad transfers is probably the total number in about 9 years since that rule was relaxed and the whole grad transfer deal really started. There are 353 D1 teams. We've had 3 grad transfers in 5 years. You can do the math. We've definitely had more grad transfers on average compared to the rest of the country.
I have not been saying we have a grad transfer problem you're arguing we don't. I challenged you to support your statement. I have no intent to debate you, but don't like unsupported statements in a discussion such as this. My only comment was in response to your unsupported representation that we have less of a problem than others. But your response to my question shows you don't know, you are just making an argument you cannot support. If you don't know who graduated and stayed how could you know if we have a problem or not? Do you know if 100% of our graduates have gone elsewhere?
Sorry that bothered you so much. Seems like other people have replied without answering as well, including, well, you with this great post of yours. But, I will try to do better. Again, sorry.
Why should I have to support my statement and you don't have to support yours? You don't like unsupported statements, or is it that you don't like unsupported statements when I make them? I mean, seriously, take a look at the amount of unsupported statements on every thread right now.
How does my response to your question mean I cannot support my argument? Just because I don't know the exact numbers of our student athletes the past 10 years means I cannot comment on a message board? Cmon, man.
Goes back to what I said earlier. If guys want to leave badly enough and be a grad transfer, our school seems like a pretty good path to do this in 3 years since we actually make guys go to class and keep up with classwork. If guys really wanted to leave, they could do it. So, no, I don't think we have a grad transfer problem when we lose one guy in 2015, one in 2018, and a walk on this year. I just don't think that is a problem. Sorry if I worded things wrong or said something that bothered you. That was not my goal. I just thought we were debating. Sorry.
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You say 3, I say 2 because I don't think the overall numbers focus on walks on much. Are we really having this discussion because Oddo left? I mean, we all like him and all, but seriously?
Oddo still counts but he’s not in same stratospherere as ANO or Fore. Also was not a walk on any longer he was on schloarship remember. But take Oddo out and we r still above the average. Look at this chart. Could add in roughly 140 for 2019. Over last 5 years I could see a lot of people calling it a problem. We have 3 that’s gotta be more than double the average. I’m not labeling it anything at moment but those r the facts. We better win BIG - ncaa or bust - this year or the numbers will just get worse for us.
http://www.ncaa.org/about/resources/research/prevalence-graduate-transfer-division-i
Good numbers. I still can't come close to calling 2 in 5 years a problem for us, but no big deal, we can disagree there. I would think plenty of schools have more than our 2 (or even 3) the past 5 years, but I can admit your numbers show that plenty of schools have less. Thanks for sharing.
A) I previously acknowledged that liking the coach helps, I just don’t think it’s a meaningful factor in these guys decision.
B) urfan1 asked a good question. I can only think of 9 scholarship guys who were grad transfer eligible since CM started here which coincidentally was around when the rule went into effect. Fore, TJ, Wood (?), TDavis, ANO, Butler, Sparrow, Geriot, Sylla (?). So 2 left, 1 wasn’t asked back but transferred (Sparrow), 3 had already transferred previously, and 3 were 5th year seniors on teams that were projected to do well. I don’t think those decisions had that much to do with coach likability.
C) stop being so sensitive, if you don’t want me to challenge your assertions “every time” then stop responding to mine every time. You asked me a question and I responded to it. That’s all it was.
John Moran also went the grad transfer route to Drexel. I believe he was on scholarship his final semester here but could be mistaken.
I intentionally omitted guys I considered non-scholarship but yes both Keith and John did a GT route technically, although I don’t think either got scholarship for their fifth year.
I think our "grad transfer problem" is that each year we have had a significant roster hole, and we were unable to obtain a grad transfer to address the issue. Even though ANO never fulfilled his potential IMO, he brought a lot to the table and left a sizable hole when he grad transferred. Same with Fore. So no, we have not had mass grad transfer numbers, BUT as usual Mooney is way late to the game, and really has never even got in the game. Good job Coach stopwatch!
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