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UR suspends head baseball coach and assistant

SF, do those numbers include the scholies? if so, difficult to compare because of the difference in what a scholie is worth, vcu full ride- $13,000, UR full ride- $57,000, for example and know both numbers could be off a tad. most of the schools, sans uri, are private and am sure their scholies are somewhat in line with ours. some schools may have to rent a facility, not have a campus park, so many variables, yet the expenditures are pretty much in a fairly close pot. would love to see a specific breakdown, scholie money, coaches, travel, dancing girls, beer, the whole nine yards. get it SF, you are the digger, the getter, we depend on here.
 
GK statement: "The whole cutting of track & soccer for lacrosse should not mislead anyone into thinking there is not institutional support & funding for athletics, there is especially when you factor in enrollment. One other reason I think there was support for lacrosse is the recruiting pool for UR is deeper. You can get more players on partials and walk ons because of the geaography of where players come from but quite honestly the affluence of the players who play. They can afford Richmond more."

I heard this from Administration also, but I find it confusing, are we trying to become more of a National University, one with a diverse student body -- or are we trying to enhance our reputation as a University with an abundance of elite wealthy NE students? Or is the National language really just a ruse and we just want more "cash cows"?

Also, I thought another reason for cutting track and soccer was to allow more support for our other non-revenue sports -- the only thing I have heard is women's golf will get a boost. Anything else?
 
Comparing UR to the rest of the A10 is a fallacious argument. UR joined the A10 for one reason: men's basketball. We can recruit basketball players because the A10 is a strong basketball league nationally. UR should be able to out-recruit other non-A10 teams locally because of the A10 and the limited number of spots on a basketball team. Not so baseball. Your recruiting competition is all of the local teams in competing leagues. In no particular order: ODU, W&M, Duke, WFU, GWU, Georgetown, HIgh Point, ECU, George Mason and to a MUCH lesser extent, UVa. The reason for throwing Wake and Duke in this equation (I know we can't compete budget-wise for the ACC schools, so don't freak out) is that those two schools rarely achieve success in the ACC (unless they have lightning in a bottle) and we can sell against that. So we have to compete against these schools' facilities for student-athletes. Most, if not all, of these schools have facilities that are recently-built and/or upgraded. GW just totally redid their ballpark and it's a beauty, so there is a prime example that happens to be in our league. BTW, next time your are in Charlotte, have a look at the UNC Charlotte stadium. And frankly, I don't care what the rest of the A10 is doing, I just care what's good for UR.

If those budget figures are correct and are like other figures I have seen in other leagues, they DO include the cost of schollies. If so, then UR is underfunded. I question if facilities are even included in those figures, except for annual maintenance costs. If you guys like having a wart on the west side of the campus, so be it. All I can say is, outside of a new scoreboard, it looks as though there have not been any material improvements to Pitt Field in the last 15 years.

The heck of it is, it would not take THAT much money to make it nice. Some trees in centerfield, a sun deck in right, new stands and a concession area. We're talking $1M MAX. That's chump change these days, and maybe the football field can delay new turf for a season.

It's all about what it takes to get the recruits. Oh yeah, and the baseball roster has players from 15 states including California, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Colorado. You want to become a national University, you already are with the baseball team.
This post was edited on 5/25 10:46 AM by Tarantula'sDad
 
Those are figures from the Department of Education's Equity in Athletics database. They do include scholarships and operating costs, but would not include capital costs. Costs are not broken down any further, and as a private university UR is not required to disclose individual coaches' salaries.
 
First of all played baseball at UR, I did cause I loved the game, still had to use wooden bats and got water from a cooler. The key as player was coaching, condition of the playing field and of course playing opportunity. A good coach can get players to play on a cow pasture. Cosmetic beauty of campus should out weigh how out dated Pitt field. Knowing Coach Mac Pitt, he would judge more the caliber of the player on the field vs the stadium named after him.

I am not saying we don't need improvements, I would like to see lights first as that would help with scheduling and create may be some games with big name baseball schools. Just because ABC Universty has this and that does not mean we have to be a "Me Too". I watched all three A10 tournament games, and our talent level is there and certainly a good nucleus for next year with the freshmen and sophomores that started and played. Coaching and school reputation should be the biggest draw and not how modern your facility is.
 
DAD, if you are calling the PITT a wart, you are so far off and have no eye. to me, it is a great little baseball venue, very attractive and the last time i was there, the field and grass was super. no, maybe it does not have lights, don't care, and a great concessions or bathrooms but it is a super, on campus, college facility. all the brick along the baselines were put in less than 15 years ago too. i don't want a minor league park on campus, this is college and i love it. it is not a wart or even close. why did your son choose UR rather than another school with a minor league type of park with all the bells and whistles?
 
One of my family members wanted to play baseball at UR. He contacted the coaching staff. He got the impression that he should not even talk to them unless he had a 4.0 GPA coming out of high school. He did not (although he was close) and he went on to pitch at another state D-1 school. He was discouraged from even applying to UR.
 
Now is the time to strike. New coach with commitment to improvements in facilities. Doubt we can get a name coach without the facilities commitment. Lets get it done.
 
Montague was recruiting coordinator so hopefully someone has put their hands on that database.With a likely coaching change wonder if those 2013-2014 signed recruits can opt out and find another home,if possible.
 
"You want to become a national University, you already are with the baseball team." come on when you make silly comments like that you end up hurting the rest of your arguments. as purely an aside our best players over the years have still come from the NE region.

The question of our struggles in the A10 still remains. If you don't want to compare funding within the league no prob you still have to perform within the league regardless and should it be better? Most would say yes although maybe with not a complete understanding of everything that goes into it. But an adminstration might legitimately ask well why aren't we at least doing better within league before we throw more $$ at it. You can make the whole chicken or egg argument but it's not an unfair concern. Again I'm on the side of more funding for baseball but I'll still look at both sides.

why wouldn't the scholarship count in the totals, it is a cost. But you never know how the accounting is determined with some these reports, if anyone would know it is SFSpidur. We may be behind in baeball capital expenses to some schools but evidence does not bear out that we're otherwise underfunded....that does necessarily mean it's at level we should expect either.

Also keep in mind T-Dad that a lot of schools u mention do not have football. It makes a big difference. We choose to have a high level FCS program and most alums wouldn't want that changed. You are correct it is fair to look at regional and peer schools too, I agree for most part we aren't recruiting for same student athtletes as many of the A10 schools but again you still have weight success against the A10 as much or really more as the others.

URFan1 subbing lacrosse for soccer & track does not really affect diversity. Soccer & track were not changing the diversity #'s. You only have to look at the rosters to see that. If anything it will be such a negilible amount. I guess it will pull in a neglible amount of more NE student athletes since lacrosse is more mid atlantic and NE based than the other two. It should be easier to fill out roster and compete due to the demo's, in theory, it will still take time to build up of course. I don't see lacrosee vs. soccer/track, having all or one or the other, has any meaningful affect on whether you are a National university. I would never call anyone who choose to send their child to UR a cash cow whether paying full freight. And I know you didn't mean in derogratory way. But yeah it makes the list of reasons. No big deal, it's such a small % of student pop that doesn't change much with diversity etc. but may give you program you compete well in and give u better chance at future donors. Not judging but are all those things considered by any Admin, yes you have to.

This post was edited on 5/26 10:41 AM by GKiller
 
Who is a name coach in baseball? Virginia's has done a fantastic job with their great new facilities. How many people even know his name?
Where did he come from? Ron A. did a fairly nice job here for years with a limited budget. Where did he com from- a local high school program that had been successful. Our current coach came from a successful VCU program led by the late Paul Keys, so it seemed like a nice fit. A good coach and recruiter should help but we will remain a long way from an elite program until we have attractive facilities and find a means of addressing the cost a players family would be responsible for. A half scholarship spread among a dozen, or more, players won't get it done.
 
Carolina Spider, if you saw all three tourney games, what did you think of Charlotte's field? Pretty nice, eh? You think that area made money on the tourney? Also, I'm sure you saw the league championship banners and NCAA Regional participation banners in LF, huh? Not the only reason for their sucess, obviously, but I'll bet it plays a key part in it.

Recruiting is sales. Selling the recruit on UR. Sales is all about eliminating objections. Upgrading Pitt eliminates the objections of second-rate facility, of commitment to the program, of the possibility of hosting a tournament, a regional, of bringing in a quality recruiting class that will win the A10 consistently. It is all about quality of recruits who can cut the academic mustard at UR while upgrading the program. Who the hell was Vandy fifteen years ago in college baseball?

Pitt is a wart as compared to Charlotte's stadium; it is a wart compared to GW; it is a wart compared to Robins Arena; it is a wart compared to Robins Stadium; it is a wart compared to the Business School; it is a wart compared to the Boatwright Library; it is a wart compared to the lake; it is a second-rate (at best) facility compared to everything else on that campus. The heck of it is, it IS a good place to watch a game, and for a little investment, it could be a GREAT place to watch a game.

Look, many of you don't see the point in spending money on college baseball. We agree to disagree. The same argument can be said about football, that it doesn't pay for itself at the FCS level. (On a side note, I believe that UR will be forced to go to D1 at some point in the future, but that is another argument for another thread). All I am saying is, if you want to upgrade the success of the baseball program, upgrading Pitt is a key component and it wouldn't take that much money to do it.

TD out.
 
sorry DAD but resent you calling the PITT a wart, just my opinion. don't think any poster/fan/grad has come on and said we should not spend more money on baseball so don't go there. you always need to be upgrading and improving your product and think all of us are for that but it is not a wart. the athletic dept works on a budget just as any entity does and they must choose where and how to allocate those dollars and it appears that we spend as much as most of our peer institutions on an annual basis. we have a great "college", on campus park and yes, could use some upgrades but to call it a wart, which is ugly, is, well, just petty and mean. the facility is part of the deal but it sounds like your son and you bought the pitch given out when he was looking for a college, heck, he could have gone to high point or charlotte and played in a wonderful atmosphere but chose not to so guess we are not too shabby.
 
T9D obviously you have a bitter pill you are trying to swallow and you did not comment on fact that I did say Pitt field needed upgrading and my first on wish list was lights. My point is there are many aspects that go into a successful baseball program, not just the baseball facility. I did not hear anything about the locker room or attractiveness of the campus or the quality of the education and the ability of the coaching staff. I think we all agree Pitt Field needs some sprucing up, but I would died to have played there. Lastly 30 plus wins do not indicate you have a bad team and UNC CH had a good baseball program before coming to A10 and I did notice thou the announcers complaining about poor condition of infield with crazy hops. So I don't think it was perfect. Maybe if your son feels baseball is the most important aspect of getting his degree, then he should transfer somewhere he and yourself can enjoy a first class facility. As you know life is not always greener on other side of the fence.
 
You guys crack me up.

Carolina, I am NOT saying the whole UR situation is terrible, it's not. My son would not have turned down another offer from an ACC school if it were. The locker room IS nice, the school IS great (the field IS nice, make sure you thank Charlie Goens next time you see him.). All I am saying is that it has the potential to be much more. But it is hard to argue that Pitt Field is up to the standards of the rest of the University. Frankly, it's not close, not even to the other UR sports facilities (I forgot about the Weinstein Center, too). We are trying to convince players to look at UR from our local area. Most of the really good players, who are serious about college, are looking to more "name" schools to attend. Once we get them to UR, they more strongly consider the place. A nice facility helps cement their decision. Again, eliminate objections to get good players. I did not bring up lights, and I totally agree with you, but we all know those were donated for free, but UR chose not to take them. I choose to move on from that subject as it has been discussed on this board ad nauseum.

As for WebSpinner, spare me your piety. You chose to make light of, and to defend, a poster who called UR student-athletes, and I paraphrase, "probably arrogant pricks," and he probably has not met the FIRST player on this year's UR's baseball team.
 
DAD, thank you, in all my long life, have never been referred to as being pious, will take that as a compliment. was not defending anyone, was injecting humor, which this thread really needs, way to dark, mean and nasty. believe it or not, understand your thoughts, frustration, we are a football, basketball school first and foremost and that is where the majority of our athletic dollars go. many of the regional schools you admire because of their parks, do not have football, which is a huge difference. UR does have a lot to offer and, yes, PITT could use some money to fix some things and think most of us, if not all of us, here, want that to happen. just take umbrage to your using the word wart, just clean up your language and use a more positive way to refer to it and we are all good. really don't feel anyone disagrees with most of what you say, maybe just the way you say it, position it. PEACE
smile.r191677.gif
 
For those who keep pointing out that we spend as much as anybody to support baseball, you are really missing the point. If it takes 21 players to make a college baseball team and you are allowed nine scholarships you have 12 unfunded players that are needed. At a cost of $50,000 per player you need an additional $600,000 to be able to compete - that almost doubles the cost of the program, and where does that money come from (who has it)? Now if I go to VCU or W&M that number will only be $120,000.

Another angle on the "comparable" $$$ support each school gives to baseball. If all three of these schools provide a reported $900,000 for baseball. Based on 9 scholarships UR spends $450,000 of its $900,000 reported expenditure on scholarships leaving $450,000 to cover coaches, recruiting, travel,etc. For the other two schools they will spend only $90,000 of the reported $900,000 on scholarships leaving $810,000 for expenses.

The facilities have been thoroughly discussed. Bottom line - there is nothing comparable or competitive about the UR baseball situation. We are lucky we do as well as we do, working from such a disadvantage.
 
62 I think a comparison would be soccer that uses same number of scholarships at least at some schools I am familiar. Rarely is a full ride issued, but coaches spread partial among players and increase a little more the percentage as they gain years and experience. Extra money is picked up as players drop out or leave school early.
 
Little bit of understating of public schools' scholarship costs here, although point about public-private difference is valid. When you throw in the room and board that a schollie also covers, a schollie runs close to $20k at VCU. A UR schollie is worth $55k+.

VCU's roster is also half out-of-state students, and cost of attendance for those folks is over $30k, although I'm not sure how Virginia handles out of state scholarships. We had a big to-do here in NC where schollies for out-of-state students were only charged to the schools at the in-state rate, but the policy was changed to force schools to pay the full out-of-state rate.
 
SF, your angle tells me that we would have to sit down with the athletic director and some UR financial aid people to really figure out the money part correctly. no question we are at some disadvantage when you have a 30 person roster and the ncaa only allows 12 scholarships. this means recruiting is at a premium, finding good athletes who's families can afford to pay or those who may qualify academically for some money, whatever, the coach has to be right on with obtaining his or her players. at least all schools only have 12 and with out of state fees beng higher, again, must recruit very smartly and efficiently.
 
Also have to realize that non-scholarship athletes can qualify for need-based aid, which by many accounts is very good at UR. Obviously an upper middle-class student-athlete on need-based will likely still owe more at UR than at an in-state public school, given the family contribution numbers, but the difference isn't as stark as $20k vs. $55k.

Remember how well Clawson did putting together packages to get kids to come to UR without schollies.
 
yes i do and he introduced me to the guy who helped him package all that together to make it work, at a football gathering once. do not know if that guy is still there but hope so, imagine he can work that magic for all our sports. guys like that should be taken out to dinner often by coaches.
 
Originally posted by SFspidur:
Also have to realize that non-scholarship athletes can qualify for need-based aid, which by many accounts is very good at UR. Obviously an upper middle-class student-athlete on need-based will likely still owe more at UR than at an in-state public school, given the family contribution numbers, but the difference isn't as stark as $20k vs. $55k.

Remember how well Clawson did putting together packages to get kids to come to UR without schollies.
Click to expand...
That's a great example, it seems like a coach that is willing to recruit nationally for these types of students could do very well for UR (like Clawson did) - it may be that we shouldn't recruit that hard in Virginia if the financial side puts us in such a disadvantageous situation with Virginia students.

UR could talk with the city and the Flying Squirrels to use a new stadium (whenever it will be built) for certain select night games against bigger name opponents. Pitt Field is a nice little ballpark to watch a day game.
 
The NCAA baseball tourney is about to get under way and Virginia is a six seed. They came from nowhere to being an NCAA powerhouse in a very few years - 1. they got a new coach, and 2 (more importantly) they built a stadium high school kids would be excited to play in. A Field of Dreams - "build it and they will come"..Not sure we are prepared to make that level of a commitment to a non-revenue sport, which I can understand.

You do not dream of playing at Pitt field and waving to all your fans sitting in folding chair in the parking lot of right field. All things considered, we probably do pretty well with what we have.
 
#3. They are a large state school that is relatively affordable and extremely attractive to many students. 1/2 scholarship at UVA goes a long way.

#4. They play in the ACC, one of the premier baseball conferences in the country.


We are fooling ourselves if we don't recognize that the largest problems with our baseball program are our conference and our price tag. When we were really good we were in the CAA and it was pre-Cooper induced tuition hike. Now we're in a crappy baseball conference, a 1/2 scholarship still has the parents coming up with $30k for school, and the kids have to qualify academically. These things are not recipes for success. The field is fine - it could be better, but where do you draw the line? If a kid doesn't want to play baseball at UR because the field doesn't have lights or a video scoreboard then he is welcome to play somewhere else. We just need to make the best of a tough situation with some of these sports and appreciate the years when we have great seasons.
 
I saw some references made to GW's "new" baseball field. GW's homefield is an Arlington County, VA public park. Yes, GW went into a partnership with Arlington to renovate the field. It is nice for a public park, but it is apples vs. oranges comparing that to an on-campus Pitt Field.
 
thanks for that info Bronx, would not trade our place for some off campus deal at all, period. this is college baseball, play it on your campus, especially a beautiful campus and let the others play in minor league parks. as mentioned above, out probs are our cost and our conference affiliation.
 
My concern, for now, is not the stadium or the field- it is the coach. I am also concerned that, in today's climate, a coach's employment is influenced by the behavior of his players. Look at Richmond, for example. The player in question was upset, was held out of the line-up and initiated some type of altercation with the coach. Why should any coach be held responsible for that situation. These players are adults. JMHO, but this situation has really hurt the team.
 
we've had the cost issue for a long time, whats new? Granted we had that tuition hike that made it even harder but we've always been more expensive than the publics. Casey came here originally on like a $1000 ship. You recruit guys that can afford it, get financial aid money or other type of money.
 
G - glad you made it so simple. That would reduce our pool of prospects to about 10 percent of the population. How can we miss. At the heart of it is the number of scholarships allowed vs the number you need to field a team. At least in football you have enough grants to field a fine team regardless of their socio/economic status.
 
Just read on a different thread that McQueen was fired. This underscores the previous positions that this has completely disrupted the team. One person drinking has immeasurably harmed this team. It is ridiculous.
 
the really sad and ironic thing here, does anyone on here think that any of these players may have had a brew sometime during the season, well, certainly, but this instance was when permission was asked of the staff and given, if the info relayed on this board is accurate. just so stupid that this was not ironed out back at the hotel so that the dugout scene would not have occurred.
 
plenty of rumors flying around, hard to tell what really happened, and then one's perspective will impact how they saw the events. In any event, very sad for the players not involved, for the whole team as want could have been fell apart big time.
 
Must be harder for a college kid to play ball and be a college kid today. When we played for Coach Pitt on the road he would go with the opposing coach (Laird at Va. Tech, Smith at ECU, Port at Citadel, etc.) and have dinner and spend the night at the coach's house. We wouldn't see Coach until the next morning. The assistants were left in charge and that was a difficult assignment for them. When the cat's away. . .
 
62,

Allow me to help debunk a few of the myths out there related to the true cost of an education at UR vs. other VA state schools. The power of UR's large endowment actually makes it less expensive for many applicants to afford UR (myself included). UR has one of the best financial aid programs in the country.




Exhibit #1 for VA residents:

Richmond will provide an aid package equal to full tuition, room, and board (without loans), if:

You're an entering first-year student from Virginia who qualifies for admissionYour annual family income is $40,000 or lessYou demonstrate eligibility for need-based aid
Also, All Virginia residents are eligible to receive the Virginia Tuition Assistance Grant (VTAG) from the Commonwealth, an annual grant of approximately $3,100

No other university in VA guarantees that kind of financial assistance for lower income VA residents.





Exhibit #2 Need based Aid for all US Citizens and Permanent Residents:



Richmond In Reach, our need-based aid program, is available to eligible, full-time undergraduate students who are U.S. citizens or permanent residents. Through this program, Richmond commits to meeting 100% of our students' demonstrated need, and we don't consider financial need when making admission decisions.



Aid packages are made up of grants and scholarships that do not have to be repaid, as well as a self-help portion that may include loans or Work-Study. Because it is our desire to help students graduate with very little debt, we attempt to keep loans to a minimum.





Exhibit #3 Average Aid Numbers:



· In 2012?13, undergraduate students received 72 million in grants and scholarships; $65.5 million came from the University of Richmond

· 67% of undergraduates receive grants or scholarships

· 1 in 13 Richmond undergraduates receives aid through a merit scholarship

· 43% of undergraduates are eligible for need-based aid, and the average financial aid package for these students is $41,800



These numbers are huge in comparison to other state based VA schools





Exhibit #4 Best Value:



The University of Richmond will increase tuition by $1,560 next year, bringing the annual undergraduate charge to $43,170. With increases in room and board, it will cost more than $52,000 to attend UR.



But with its generous financial-aid packages, the private university still merits a spot on Princeton Review's annual best-value list.



UR is the only Virginia school on the top 50 list for private schools.



The rankings by Princeton Review, a company offering test preparation and education services, are based on financial information for the current academic year. UR has set its tuition rates for next year, but public colleges will determine rates later in the spring.



The Princeton report praised U.Va. and UR for their financial awards. The average debt for UR graduates is $21,555. Students with family incomes below $40,000 receive full tuition and room and board.



In-state residents pay $10,628 in tuition and required fees at U.Va. this year. The average debt at graduation is $19,384, the report says.



Here is another article by Kiplinger praising UR:



http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/college-inc/post/kiplinger-anoints-washington-and-lee-a-top-liberal-arts-value/2011/10/25/gIQAPgZmGM_blog.html





Exhibit #5 True Cost Calculator:



· I ran the some numbers based on a VA resident whose parents make $100k per year, owns a modest home (with avg debt), has modest retirement assets, and the student currently works part-time

· UR's total cost including personal expenses was almost $58k but the student received a total of $30k in Grants and Scholarships, leaving about $28k in remaining cost

· I ran the same scenario for VCU and the total cost was estimated to be $25.5k but they only received $2k in grants leaving $23.5k in remaining cost

· Not much difference if you ask me.





Exhibit #6 Check out who is #2 (page 7 of this article) for Colleges that Pay Off:



http://www.smartmoney.com/borrow/student-loans/colleges-that-pay-off/





Exhibit #7 UR ranked the best in its commitment to serving low income students:



But the report ranks the University of Richmond as among "the Best of the Best of the Wealthiest Schools" for its commitment to serving low-income students.



At UR, 18 percent of students receive Pell Grants, and the average net price for low-income students is $7,150, according to the report.



http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/local/education/college/article_5d1ff546-886b-5633-aab1-dfd7192c4796.html





Exhibit #8 Check out the following articles talking about UR's value relative to other VA schools:



http://www.timesdispatch.com/news/private-colleges-offer-diversity-and-value/article_16b11425-8291-5804-ba57-cb14fa135e80.html



http://thecollegianur.com/2010/02/04/richmond-a-great-value-despite-price/10520/
 
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