Transfer Portal
- Thread starter spiderman
- Start date
If our first week of portal activty is any indication, it seems like we really want to add a big guard in the portal this offseason. Of the 8 guys we've reported to be in contact with, 5 of them fit that mold: Conway, Selden, Taylor, and Wilcox are all 6'5-6'6 guards, and Roberts is listed as a 6'5 F.
My guess is someone figured out we don’t have enough good shooters and said, “let’s go get some good shooters”.
This again begs the question of why can we not evaluate who are good shooters to begin with?
Of course Roche shot 38.5% and Randolph hit 40%, but both only played 12-18mpg. Gus was a respectable 37.3% but only figured that out once we got to conference play.
So maybe we have decent shooters who don’t play enough or take enough threes.
This again begs the question of why can we not evaluate who are good shooters to begin with?
Of course Roche shot 38.5% and Randolph hit 40%, but both only played 12-18mpg. Gus was a respectable 37.3% but only figured that out once we got to conference play.
So maybe we have decent shooters who don’t play enough or take enough threes.
Definitely need shooters but need more athleticism too. Many needs. The wrong guys taking too many of the outside shots was a problem all year. It was 1 of the reasons I advocated for Goose at PG, thus more time for Roche/randolph and would force all those guys into taking more of the shots. They were our best. That horse is dead now, but I don't want to repeat it. It's possible Nelson and Bailey can improve but we certainly can't rely on that going into a big portal season.
There’s no part of me that wanted goose to play more than he did but I of course understand your point.
It points to a really significant planning flaw that our top two PG options probably prevented us from playing our preferred choices at the off guard spot.
It seems we have previously targeted players from lower level conferences that are getting playing time at prior schools but are looking to move up. Maybe we should also focus on someone that has been at a Power 5 school but is looking for more playing time or a bigger role at another program. I do think it definitely was a transition period for our transfers playing against more athletic opponents this year on a regular basis.
I'm on that train too, jpo. As someone pointed out, Marshall Wood was basically the only guy we've had like that under Mooney, and it was only because we had recruited him initially. I bet almost every other team in our league has at least one P5 guy who transferred down.
Of course, I'm sure no P5 transfers could ever earn admittance to our school...
Of course, I'm sure no P5 transfers could ever earn admittance to our school...
it would have been a difficult choice and unpopular in some circles, but the top two PG options didn't prevent us from playing Roche more at the 2.
there's no guarantee we'd have been better, but what we did didn't work.
It's crazy. We signed one of the top available three-point shooters in the country and then proceeded to let him waste away on the bench of a team that sucked at shooting three-pointers. Just another in a long line of bizzarre decisions.
I'll never be convinced that the step "up" in conference affiliation, if you can even call it that at this point, made it so much more difficult for him to get shots or play defense. At worst, why did we never try playing him 30-35 minutes a couple times in a row and see what happened? We had zero chance of an at-large by the time the A10 season started.
Coaching malpractice.
I'll never be convinced that the step "up" in conference affiliation, if you can even call it that at this point, made it so much more difficult for him to get shots or play defense. At worst, why did we never try playing him 30-35 minutes a couple times in a row and see what happened? We had zero chance of an at-large by the time the A10 season started.
Coaching malpractice.
I agree it shouldn’t have prevented the coaches from choosing to play Roche more at the two but objectively it did, because Gus played more there.
I just get the impression that CM gets very stuck on who he thinks should be on the court when it seems evident he should break his mold every now and then.
Roche would have at least been a threat defenders had to deal with and not double team Tyler every game. Goose, Bailey and Nelson were no threat whatsoever to score.
Any other program in the country would have run sets to get an elite 3 point shooter open, quality looks. But that isn't in CM's system, so we didn't do it. Crazy
Roche wasn’t a 2 according to Mooney. He was the backup to Burton.
Also positionless basketball
that's Mooney talk. take it with a grain of salt.
Burton played 36.2 mpg. Roche played 17.9 mpg. there are 40 minutes in a game.
Jalen Pickett received no D-1 offers out of high school, took a prep year, got an offer from Siena. Transferred up to Penn State, first team all Big Ten, 2nd team all American. Just one example of lower mid major players transferring up and excelling. Of course, Penn State has a real coach that allows that player to take his game to that level and adopts his system to the skills of transferring players.
We've got Mr. Dinosaur who commits himself to senior players with obvious limitations and coaches a system that take eons to learn. Roche should have been out there playing 30 minutes a game in a "transitional year", instead we got 30 plus minutes a game of an offensively limited Goose, playing out his last year of his career here for a sub .500 team. Just pathetic roster management.
To that point, Walz should have gotten more minutes at the end of the year over Grace, one it was clear the season was in the toilet.
We've got Mr. Dinosaur who commits himself to senior players with obvious limitations and coaches a system that take eons to learn. Roche should have been out there playing 30 minutes a game in a "transitional year", instead we got 30 plus minutes a game of an offensively limited Goose, playing out his last year of his career here for a sub .500 team. Just pathetic roster management.
To that point, Walz should have gotten more minutes at the end of the year over Grace, one it was clear the season was in the toilet.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
this is why I have not been excited in the slightest about the stats of these potential transfers that we have been in contact with so far this offseason. We took 3 point gold and turned it into fools gold. Imagine how much damage Roach could have done with a competent coach and game plan. Can't imagine he is happy with how he was utilized here.
| Season | School | Conf | G | GS | MP | FG | FGA | 3P | 3PA | 3P% | PTS |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2021-22 | The Citadel | Southern | 31 | 30 | 1121 | 124 | 309 | 110 | 277 | .397 | 408 |
| 2022-23 | Richmond | A-10 | 32 | 1 | 572 | 65 | 161 | 52 | 135 | .385 | 201 |
| Career | Overall | 63 | 31 | 1693 | 189 | 470 | 162 | 412 | .393 | 609 |
Sal's brother Oumar is in the portal. Only played 82 minutes for Jacksonville this year after transferring in from a JUCO.
Former Spider target Saint Thomas is transferring out of Loyola. As a refresher, we were in a top 7 list for him, but then he didn't commit anywhere for a while and eventually came out with a new list and settled on Loyola. He seemed to be waiting for in-person visits to restart from the pandemic restrictions and missed out on his initial group. Based on timing, Randolph may have taken his spot here.
He was a role player for Loyola in two years and withdrew from school in January to focus on his mental health.
He was a role player for Loyola in two years and withdrew from school in January to focus on his mental health.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Was he the one that got into a shouting match on the bench with their coach or am I thinking of someone else?
We need shooters in the portal. If we get 2 guys, give me shooters. If Trevor Smith is not the next above average PG. give me a PG who can shoot and another shooter. I agree we should have played Roche more. I don't care who with and what lineup, we should have played him more. College basketball is mostly about guard play. It just is, and teams play 3 and 4 guard lineups all the time out there. Guards have to be able to shoot. If you have guards who can't shoot, you are already way behind because most every other team you play has them. It's not that we didn't run plays for Roche. Over 4 attempts a game in less than 18 minutes is actually a lot, and his shots per minute were similar to his previous year....he just didn't get the minutes.
Tyler, Bigs, and Nelson were a combined 118-408 (29%) from 3. You just can't win much with volume 3 point shooters shooting so poorly. Compare that to 2020, with Jacob, Blake, and Nick going a combined 202-518 (39%).
A lack of multiple, quality 3 point threats affects everything offensively. Nelson struggled when driving in the lane, but there was usually plenty of congestion there. When other teams camped out in the lane, we rarely made them pay by getting hot from 3. We had plenty of open looks from 3 all year long....we just never consistently hit enough of them.
Tyler, Bigs, and Nelson were a combined 118-408 (29%) from 3. You just can't win much with volume 3 point shooters shooting so poorly. Compare that to 2020, with Jacob, Blake, and Nick going a combined 202-518 (39%).
A lack of multiple, quality 3 point threats affects everything offensively. Nelson struggled when driving in the lane, but there was usually plenty of congestion there. When other teams camped out in the lane, we rarely made them pay by getting hot from 3. We had plenty of open looks from 3 all year long....we just never consistently hit enough of them.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
so all these failures of should-have, would-have, and could-have's were part of whose responsibility now?
Francis and Cline both transferred up and had big impacts here.
I'd take two like that this year.
I'd take two like that this year.
Yep. We need to show a transfer scorer what we did with Blake his first year here. Just under 15 shots a game, 7+ 3 attempts a game, and 17.7 PPG. "Come here and be that guy".
We need a Francis type. Agree we need a shooter, but would be best if that shooter can dribble against pressure and create his own shot.
Randolph and Roche are both very good I believe. Both have the ability to catch and shoot very quickly with very repeatable form and confidence. But neither quite has the ability to beat man off the dribble and get a quality shot. Roche actually is pretty good at it sometimes, but lacks the athleticism and ball handling to do it consistently. Randolph can look good at times, but then his handle seems to be wish washy where he almost makes a play but cannot quite get there because of handle. But I like both guys ability to catch and shoot with confidence.
Need a combo guard type that can do both. I like Smith's potential, but no idea if that will translate at this level on the offensive scoring side, especially freshman year. Rather bring in a stud combo guard in the portal if available, and let DJi/SMith/Randolph/Nelson fight it out for minutes. Roche too.
Randolph and Roche are both very good I believe. Both have the ability to catch and shoot very quickly with very repeatable form and confidence. But neither quite has the ability to beat man off the dribble and get a quality shot. Roche actually is pretty good at it sometimes, but lacks the athleticism and ball handling to do it consistently. Randolph can look good at times, but then his handle seems to be wish washy where he almost makes a play but cannot quite get there because of handle. But I like both guys ability to catch and shoot with confidence.
Need a combo guard type that can do both. I like Smith's potential, but no idea if that will translate at this level on the offensive scoring side, especially freshman year. Rather bring in a stud combo guard in the portal if available, and let DJi/SMith/Randolph/Nelson fight it out for minutes. Roche too.
Welcome back. Agree with this completely.
And sorry, I did probably take 5-6 shots at you during your hiatus
You are right. We need Randolph and Roche to play with a Blake type, not instead of a Blake type. Neither, like you said, will be like Blake was and can consistently create like he did. I am hoping Smith comes in here and gets a lot of minutes because I kind of feel like we know what we have with Nelson and Dji. I'm not giving up on Nelson, but I don't think he needs a lot of big minute games like we saw this year. I think from some of your past comments you are much higher on Dji than I am, and no worries, we can just disagree on that one.
All good, 23.Welcome back. Agree with this completely.
And sorry, I did probably take 5-6 shots at you during your hiatus
Agreed, we do need a Blake Francis at the guard position. We need an alpha player at the guard position, we got a bunch of guards who not only don't actively look for their own shot but are often too timid to set up the offense with a sense of authority.
Trevor Smith maybe all of that and a cup of tea, but he would benefit greatly from not only having to be the guy from Day 1 and even more important learning and playing alongside from a confident college point guard.
Trevor Smith maybe all of that and a cup of tea, but he would benefit greatly from not only having to be the guy from Day 1 and even more important learning and playing alongside from a confident college point guard.
I will say this about Dji. I like this guy to be in the rotation. But I see him as more of a guy that can impact on the defensive side. Also, he had some good looks taking his guy off the dribble and with his size was able to then dump it inside to Quinn for very easy baskets. I don't like him as primary ball handler against the other teams point guard. He has struggled dribbling against pressure from smaller quicker guards. I do tend to agree that his 3 ball does not look quick enough to be a huge scoring threat from 3 - though he did hit some this year. I think he works well for stretches where we have that stud combo guard (or if Smith or Nelson can be that guy), and Randolph or Roche at the other guard. In that case, he may find himself pretty open for that 3 and hit enough to be effective. But at this point, he is not consistent enough with quick enough release to be counted on.
His biggest thing is to stay healthy, and have a healthy off season and season next year. I think he can be a good contributor if that happens. Of course pretty sure I said that last year, he just is very injury prone. Pulling for him to be healthy and be a contributor for us next season in the role I envision.
His biggest thing is to stay healthy, and have a healthy off season and season next year. I think he can be a good contributor if that happens. Of course pretty sure I said that last year, he just is very injury prone. Pulling for him to be healthy and be a contributor for us next season in the role I envision.
Also, I want all of our current guards to also be about to learn and improve off of a true alpha scoring guard, that would help our entire guard room.
We need a guard who is assertive and big enough to drive the lane and score at the hoop. We haven't really had one like that since Gonzo.
Here is how I see our returning guard room next year:
Dji: 12-18 minute bench guy who is a defensive harrasser type of player. He doesn't bring enough offense to be a starter.
Randolph to be a 10-15 minute guy who brings energy, toughness, and a kind of pisses the other team off type of player. His skill set just better fits a 6th man.
Roche: 25-30 minutes starter at the 3. I see him as Ryan Butler type of defender, crafty, hard working and will surprise the other team as a result. He is a bit undersized for the 3 but I think he can better defend players at that position.
Jaynel: ??? He has the potential to be our next really good PG, but we just can not hitch our wagon to him be a starting PG next year the way he played the last half of the season. That would be a recipe for disaster. His minutes are the biggest mystery, he could be our starting PG if he can fix his confidence issues and defense, likewise, he could get buried on the depth chart if we bring in a stud PG transfer.
I can see Dji or Nelson successfully playing with Smith assuming Smith is a scoring and shooting point guard like Gilly/Blake/K0.
I can also see Dji or Nelson playing with Roche and another shooter.
I didn't like Dji or Nelson playing with Goose ... unless we had a ton of shooting at the 3/4/5 spots and we didn't.
I can also see Dji or Nelson playing with Roche and another shooter.
I didn't like Dji or Nelson playing with Goose ... unless we had a ton of shooting at the 3/4/5 spots and we didn't.
We're getting zero shooting from the 5 next year with Quinn and Walz. The lane will have big defenders in it at all times, especially if we do ask Bigelow to forgo 3s and crash off. boards. So guards have to be able to shoot. Walz needs to learn to value the ball - his turnovers were many in few minutes. Still a project IMO but hoping he puts in the work and comes back with a couple post moves next year.
Roche is not the passer Butler was, nor the defender. He hustles and is active, but Butler had the defensive instincts to make plays on d, as well as an ability to be a step ahead on offense in knowing the pass that led to a score. Roche is mainly making the obvious passes and cutting hard - which is fine! He's a different type player IMO and should always be on the move as he can draw attention bc he's a shooter and that can open things up for other guys. As the stats above show, he had a similar year to his freshman year, just got half the minutes and half the shots. Free Roche.
Agree on what I've read here about Randolph, Dji and Nelson's strengths and weaknesses as shown so far. They all can improve in the offseason, though, we saw marked improvement from Marcus - hope that is true for all 3 of them this offseason. I don't think a 4 guard committee at the two guard spots is the path forward, but maybe that is the route they plan to take, and it's a per-game decision on minutes based on matchups and playing well that day (it's against everything Moon has shown in 18 years, which is why I doubt it.)
I don't think I'd ever play Nelson with another PG (Smith) unless it's Dji - Nelson is too small to play alongside anyone else who doesn't have size. It's not a Gilly / Blake scenario, IMO, where those guys could mostly hold their own on defense. I think it would be a train wreck on d.
Add shooting, scoring and more shooting from the portal. And recruit shooters from HS.
Roche is not the passer Butler was, nor the defender. He hustles and is active, but Butler had the defensive instincts to make plays on d, as well as an ability to be a step ahead on offense in knowing the pass that led to a score. Roche is mainly making the obvious passes and cutting hard - which is fine! He's a different type player IMO and should always be on the move as he can draw attention bc he's a shooter and that can open things up for other guys. As the stats above show, he had a similar year to his freshman year, just got half the minutes and half the shots. Free Roche.
Agree on what I've read here about Randolph, Dji and Nelson's strengths and weaknesses as shown so far. They all can improve in the offseason, though, we saw marked improvement from Marcus - hope that is true for all 3 of them this offseason. I don't think a 4 guard committee at the two guard spots is the path forward, but maybe that is the route they plan to take, and it's a per-game decision on minutes based on matchups and playing well that day (it's against everything Moon has shown in 18 years, which is why I doubt it.)
I don't think I'd ever play Nelson with another PG (Smith) unless it's Dji - Nelson is too small to play alongside anyone else who doesn't have size. It's not a Gilly / Blake scenario, IMO, where those guys could mostly hold their own on defense. I think it would be a train wreck on d.
Add shooting, scoring and more shooting from the portal. And recruit shooters from HS.
Look what happened with Eight Legger's favorite player at his favorite school. The stache was incorporated much better than Roche especially considering the team and Shriver trended up, while us & Roche trended down.
