The Biden Doctrine

[KE Spider]

Kudos to the military who under perilous conditions, they should have never been put in, for evacuating over 100,000. Logistically impressive, but that is an accomplishment, not a victory. The humiliating withdrawal is a defeat when it needn't have been.

 

[AnnapSpider]

And what a great idea by these geniuses- let’s leave $89 billion of military equipment.
So, when we go back they have something to kill us with.
Pure genius.

 

[Gallipoli]

Kudos to the military who under perilous conditions, they should have never been put in, for evacuating over 100,000. Logistically impressive, but that is an accomplishment, not a victory. The humiliating withdrawal is a defeat when it needn't have been.

Winston Churchill, on June 4, 1940...
"We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."

 

[Gallipoli]

On Neville Chamberlain, shortly after the infamous ‘appeasement’ of Hitler, 29th September 1938, Munich, Winston Churchill said:

“You were given the choice between war and dishonour. You chose dishonour and you will have war.”

Biden chose dishonor. We can expect war.

 

[Gallipoli]

Biometric data are in the hands of the Taliban.

Afghanistan: The biometric, social and business data the Taliban could use to target left-behind Afghans

The Taliban's rapid takeover could give them access to a cache of personal information that could risk the lives of Afghans who worked with the West.

news.sky.com

 

[spider fan]

The idea that withdrawing from Afghanistan "stops the endless war" is untrue. The enemy is alive and well and encouraged by our fecklessness. How much more we will pay in blood and treasure remains to be seen. Will we have to send troops back to Afghanistan like we did in Iraq? Will there be terrorist attacks on American soil? We had the situation in hand with a fairly minimal troop presence but Biden's' total misjudgment has reopened old risks. The naivete exhibited by this administration is breathtaking and tragically already life taking. Difficult to believe our foreign policy could be so wrong and short sighted.

 

[Gallipoli]

Beaten men make terrible presidents. Who did this to this country?

Similar reports of a detached president and a staff-run administration have ricocheted around Washington from the very start, but the Afghanistan debacle has crystallized concerns. They were bolstered by the picture of the president at his Thursday news conference that swept across the world.

Near tears at one point, Biden was seen hunched over the podium, clutching his briefing binder with both hands, his face a sea of grief.

My first thought was that he looked like a beaten man.

My second thought was that beaten men make terrible presidents and disastrous commanders in chief.

In the midst of a White House breakdown: Goodwin

Having been in office eight months, Joe Biden’s successes are so minimal and his mistakes so glaring that doubts exist across the political spectrum about whether the president is up to the j…

nypost.com

 

[Gallipoli]

According to the Washington Post, the US was offered control of Kabul and the US turned it down. I doubt McKenzie would make this decision without input from the Commander in Chief.

"In a hastily arranged in-person meeting, senior U.S. military leaders in Doha — including McKenzie, the commander of U.S. Central Command — spoke with Abdul Ghani Baradar, head of the Taliban’s political wing.

“We have a problem,” Baradar said, according to the U.S. official. “We have two options to deal with it: You [the United States military] take responsibility for securing Kabul or you have to allow us to do it.”

Throughout the day, Biden had remained resolute in his decision to withdraw all American troops from Afghanistan. The collapse of the Afghan government hadn’t changed his mind.

McKenzie, aware of those orders, told Baradar that the U.S. mission was only to evacuate American citizens, Afghan allies and others at risk. The United States, he told Baradar, needed the airport to do that.

On the spot, an understanding was reached, according to two other U.S. officials: The United States could have the airport until Aug. 31. But the Taliban would control the city."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/08/28/taliban-takeover-kabul/

 

[Mo 2.0]

"Moral Disaster" is a fair description of what has happened. Good to see some of these left-leaning news sources not carrying the Administration's water.

NYT: Number of green-card Americans stranded in Afghanistan could be in the thousands; WaPo: "Moral disaster"

hotair.com

 

[Gallipoli]

Now comes the reckoning within this country. Jim Webb (D, VA) former Senator:
"In Kabul, America’s capability to conduct an orderly withdrawal from Afghanistan had turned into a disgusting nightmare of incompetence that can only be rectified by holding those responsible accountable. A midnight abandonment of America’s most important airbase in Bagram on July 2 had put a double hex on a proper retrograde from the country, first by giving up a large-scale aviation platform whose massive runways and extensive outer perimeter made it eminently usable and defendable, and second by allowing the Taliban to release thousands of rabid terrorists who had been imprisoned there and were now on the loose. "

Afghanistan: A Requiem for an Avoidable Disaster

Most Americans can clearly agree that what they have been seeing time and again, domestically and overseas, is not good government, despite honorable intentions among many dedicated people.

nationalinterest.org

 

[spider fan]

Biden is delusional. To call the debacle of the botched withdrawal from Afghanistan an "extraordinary success" is living in a "LaLa" land where he is the shining star. Previously he said we would extricate all Americans. That did not happen. To continually blame the Afghan government when the rug was pulled out from under them with no notice is childish. To leave behind massive amounts of military equipment without destroying or disabling it was foolish. To trust the Taliban is a losing strategy. In view of the needless loss of life of 13 of our servicemembers and the number of people left behind humility and accepting responsibility would go a long way. At a minimum he should get a new speech writer.

 

[Wood Hall]

Winston Churchill, on June 4, 1940...
"We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."

That's the height of stupidity.

Wake me up when the Taliban air force starts bombing New York City and other American cities, like the Nazis did to London, etc. Wake me up when the Taliban invades Austria, Czechoslovakia, Norway, Poland, Belgium, Holland, etc.

How many more American servicemen did you want to be maimed or killed fighting to defend a country whose citizens won't defend themselves?

How much more money did you want our government to flush down the toilet in trying to establish a stable government in a fourth-world country?

So now you care about Afghan citizens, after the previous administration slow-walked Visa requests and openly opposed immigration of Afghan citizens to the USA?

Enough is enough. The majority of Americans are glad we're finally out of there.

 

[KE Spider]

Winston Churchill, on June 4, 1940...
"We must be very careful not to assign to this deliverance the attributes of a victory. Wars are not won by evacuations."

That's the height of stupidity.



We have someone smarter than Churchill, but he speaks like Neville.

Of course, most wanted out of Afghanistan, but can anyone seriously argue this withdrawal "strategy" was the best we could do? Complete disaster. Don't believe me, read the international press. D I A S T E R. Pure and simple and seen that way domestically and internationally.

 

[32counter]

Imagine if we still had the duplicitous Orange head trying to manage Covid,an impending Hurricane and a troop withdrawal Including 120,000 personnel.He’d be on the golf course playing with himself trying to conjure up a deal with the Taliban to put a Trump Tower in the middle of Kabul and start up another Apprentice show by inviting a few dozen of the 5,000 Taliban prisoners he had the Afghan government release in order to retaliate against the US.

I’ll take Biden any day versus the the former leader of the domestic insurgent minions of Mr.Orange head-a total F’up.

 

[KE Spider]

Deflection. Has zero to do between Orange Man v Biden. The latter owns this. His time at bat. His folks. His decisions. His gross miscalculations.

 

[32counter]

Deflection. Has zero to do between Orange Man v Biden. The latter owns this. His time at bat. His folks. His decisions. His gross miscalculations.

Error.Orange Man lit the fuse to vacate.It was a done deal.Mr Macho Orange head deal man is a total F’up.Pompeo was his lap dog.

Have you been to Afghanistan?I have.Many times as a contractor.You have no idea what the F you’re talking about.

 

[KE Spider]

With your experience and contacts can you help rescue some of the folks this Administration left behind...abandoned?

 

[Wood Hall]

That's the height of stupidity.



We have someone smarter than Churchill, but he speaks like Neville.

Of course, most wanted out of Afghanistan, but can anyone seriously argue this withdrawal "strategy" was the best we could do? Complete disaster. Don't believe me, read the international press. D I A S T E R. Pure and simple and seen that way domestically and internationally.

Do you seriously think any of the European countries could have handled the withdrawal of 125,000 foreign nationals, and 5,000 of their own citizens, from a hostile, third-world environment like the US military did? France? England? Germany? Get serious.

And besides, why do MAGGATs care what the international community thinks about the US? Who needs allies? 'Merica first?!

Do you seriously think every single Afghan who helped support the US mission could be safely evacuated? As for the US citizens supposedly left behind, most are staying of their own volition. And they number about 200, according to the state department. And most had ample time to safely leave before the final shitstorm started.

I'll eagerly await the conservative right embracing these Afghan immigrants they suddenly have developed such a deep concern for. Just like they embraced the Vietnamese in the 1970s.

 

[32counter]

With your experience and contacts can you help rescue some of the folks this Administration left behind...abandoned?

We only send over geniuses as you.People who don’t know what they’re F’ing talking about-
Critics without portfolio.

 

[Wood Hall]

Even the right-wing whack jobs know Trump screwed the pooch.

 

[32counter]

This is the substance of Mr Orangeheads deal in March 2020


If you read the peace agreement itself, you’ll note immediately that it gives the Taliban a series of concrete, measurable gifts. First, there’s an immediate allied withdrawal – down to 8,600 American troops (and proportionate numbers of allied troops) within 135 days. The remainder of American and allied forces will leave within 14 months.

At the same time, the United States will immediately and substantially reinforcethe Taliban by seeking the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners by March 20. Even worse, the United States further agreed to a goal of “releasing all remaining prisoners over the course of the subsequent three months.” It will do this at the same time that it commits to the “goal” of removing sanctions from members of the Taliban that include travel bans, asset freezes, and an arms embargo.

The local Afghan’s and the Afghan government and their military we’re screwed totally.The fuse was lit.

 

[Eight Legger]

Biden made some mistakes, no doubt about it. Bottom line is that whenever we were going to leave, the overnight collapse of the Afghan government and military was going to make it a messy and chaotic exit. I haven't seen evidence that anything Biden did specifically caused those things to happen, but if that's the case then he should bear the full brunt of the blame for it.

Bottom line, I'm glad we're out of there and my nephew and our other troops safe but sad that we lost 6,000 people while we were over there.

 

[KE Spider]

The record shows that Biden chose to close our six major bases, including most notably Bagram, weeks before US citizens, foreign allies, and Afghan allies, were safely and easily evacuated.

Admin supporters hang defense on: 1) how many we got out while ignoring how many we left behind and 2) current Admin was hamstrung by the conditional agreement of the former while ignoring Biden has abrogated most decisions of his predecessor in all other matters. Incompetence on his part. Would say the same if it was the other party responsible. It is not a political issue. It is a competency issue.

Consensus, domestic and foreign, friend and foe, Biden fumbled badly with dire and in some cases deadly consequences.

 

[AnnapSpider]

This is the substance of Mr Orangeheads deal in March 2020


If you read the peace agreement itself, you’ll note immediately that it gives the Taliban a series of concrete, measurable gifts. First, there’s an immediate allied withdrawal – down to 8,600 American troops (and proportionate numbers of allied troops) within 135 days. The remainder of American and allied forces will leave within 14 months.

At the same time, the United States will immediately and substantially reinforcethe Taliban by seeking the release of 5,000 Taliban prisoners by March 20. Even worse, the United States further agreed to a goal of “releasing all remaining prisoners over the course of the subsequent three months.” It will do this at the same time that it commits to the “goal” of removing sanctions from members of the Taliban that include travel bans, asset freezes, and an arms embargo.

The local Afghan’s and the Afghan government and their military we’re screwed totally.The fuse was lit.

You know, even CNN doesn’t agree with most of what you say.
I don’t know where you get your information, but it does seem
a little askewed.

 

[localspider]

A little respect for the 13 that were killed. Political BS another day. My nephew made it out safely.

 

[urfan1]

glad local and eight's nephews made it out safely.

 

[AnnapSpider]

A little respect for the 13 that were killed. Political BS another day. My nephew made it out safely.

That’s great news

 

[Wood Hall]

A little respect for the 13 that were killed. Political BS another day. My nephew made it out safely.

No one has disrespected any of the 13 who died on Thursday.

I'm happy your nephew made it out. For only the second day since 2021, no American soldiers will wake up in Afghanistan. That's a good thing.

So, when we go back they have something to kill us with.

Hopefully no future presidents will be stupid enough to send us there again in the first place.

 

[Eight Legger]

Admin supporters hang defense on: 1) how many we got out while ignoring how many we left behind

I'm not an admin supporter, but I guess I would ask what your desired numbers were? Would anything less than getting every single American, every single Afghan with an SIV, every single Afghan in the SIV pipeline and every single Afghan in any danger or who simply wanted to be out be considered a failure in your estimation? To me, it was never realistic to do that, so I can't criticize the outcome based on that alone. It's like saying if we don't go 32-0 in basketball, the season is a complete waste.

We did get like 130,000 people out of there, so I would say ignoring that is similarly unwise.

Of course I would have wanted to get every last American out if we could have. I understand we were telling all Americans there to get out since March or April. I don't know why more didn't heed those warnings then, or maybe they did and were blocked by the Taliban? I'm not sure.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Wake me up when the Taliban air force starts bombing New York City

You might have slept through this.

 

[Spider B]

First off, great news that your newphews made it out safely and I am greatful for their service.

Here's an idea. Maybe Biden could have taken his Tailban buddies up on the offer for the US to keep control of Kabul to ensure an easier, safer trip to the airport out of the city. Maybe he could have found some way to not let not let Taliban have billions of dollars of military equipment including Blackhawk helicopters. Instead he tries and deflect blame for his terrible decision making on the deal trump made with the Taliban. That holds no water because Trumps deal was conditioned based. The taliban violated the conditions therefore voiding the agreement. This is Biden's disaster. He has made the entire western world far less safe.

A little respect for the 13 that were killed. Political BS another day.

And how about Joe checking his watch at the dignified transfer of the 13 heros killed at the Kabul Airport. So the answer to your question is no, Joe couldn't respect the fallen soldiers. Despicable.

 

[Gallipoli]

I'm not an admin supporter, but I guess I would ask what your desired numbers were? Would anything less than getting every single American, every single Afghan with an SIV, every single Afghan in the SIV pipeline and every single Afghan in any danger or who simply wanted to be out be considered a failure in your estimation?

I would like to follow President Biden's own words, from August 18, 2021, when deciding this. I want him to do what he said he was going to do.

"ABC News: Because we've got, like, 10,000 to 15,000 Americans in the country right now, right? And are you committed to making sure that the troops stay until every American who wants to be out —

Biden: Yes.

ABC News: — is out?

Biden: Yes.

They did not all come home. The White House estimates that between 100 and 200 Americans who want to leave were left behind."

Biden Declares War Over, Shifts Blame for Botching Withdrawal | RealClearPolitics

Almost exactly 24 hours after the last cargo plane carrying Americans lumbered down the Kabul airport runway, President Biden started walking. He exited the...

www.realclearpolitics.com

 

[Gallipoli]

Even 200 Americans left behind creates a massive hostage situation. That is 4 times the number of Iranian hostages held in Tehran. I do not believe any estimates this government makes. They claim they evacuated 5,500 American citizens + 200 = 5,700 US citizens in Afghanistan. That is much different from reports quoted above indicating more than 10,000 US citizens in country.

 

[Eight Legger]

My understanding is that we didn't have a completely accurate count because not all Americans who went to Afghanistan registered with the feds, or sometimes one person from a family would but that person didn't indicate how many family members he/she had. Tough to have an exact count of how many people are there if they aren't telling us themselves. From the sounds of it, we are not just wiping our hands of the people who are still there – we are actively working to get them safe passage home. I don't think the Taliban wants to kill 200 Americans and invite us back after we just left. ISIS, of course, is always a threat.

 

[Gallipoli]

I don't think the Taliban wants to kill 200 Americans and invite us back after we just left. ISIS, of course, is always a threat.

Here is a good thought:
"Whichever of these numbers you use, the math is way off. And whether it is 500 or 100–200 or 50, how is it okay to leave their fate to the Taliban? ....This is like Jimmy Carter making the case that “0.000023% of Americans were held hostage in Iran.”

Biden’s Afghanistan Speech Was a Dishonest, Incoherent, Contradictory Mess | National Review

It’s even worse when you read the transcript.

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Gallipoli]

From the sounds of it, we are not just wiping our hands of the people who are still there – we are actively working to get them safe passage home. I don't think the Taliban wants to kill 200 Americans and invite us back after we just left. ISIS, of course, is always a threat.

I doubt the Taliban care what you or anyone else thinks. I for one hope these "200" don't sing, otherwise they would be in for a world of hurt, like this guy...

Afghan folk singer taken from his house and killed by the Taliban | CNN

Afghan folk singer Fawad Andarabi was dragged from his home and killed by the Taliban in a restive mountain province north of Kabul on Friday, a local journalist told CNN, raising fears of a return to the militant group's harsh rule of 20 years ago -- including a clampdown on music.

www.cnn.com

 

[Wood Hall]

You might have slept through this.

They were Al Qaeda, not Taliban. They also did not use their own military aircraft, or those left by the US in another country. And they didn't fly from Afghan bases, across thousands of miles of US-defended airspace, to attack our country.

But yeah, other than that, your analogy checks out completely.

How many more US servicemen and women did you want to die there? How many more had to die before you'd approve of withdrawing from this sinkhole?

Bottom line, another morning of no US servicemen or women in Afghanistan. No more needless deaths.

If the fat Orange Cheeto had withdrawn all US servicemen and women, you'd be beside yourself with joy. But he couldn't manage that.

 

[spider fan]

The withdrawal itself is a straw man argument. The incompetence shown by the Biden administration's total bungling of the exit is the issue. Thirteen servicemen and women died needlessly and Biden has the temerity to call the exit strategy an "extraordinary success".

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

They were Al Qaeda, not Taliban. They also did not use their own military aircraft, or those left by the US in another country. And they didn't fly from Afghan bases, across thousands of miles of US-defended airspace, to attack our country.

But yeah, other than that, your analogy checks out completely.

How many more US servicemen and women did you want to die there? How many more had to die before you'd approve of withdrawing from this sinkhole?

Bottom line, another morning of no US servicemen or women in Afghanistan. No more needless deaths.

If the fat Orange Cheeto had withdrawn all US servicemen and women, you'd be beside yourself with joy. But he couldn't manage that.

You can both support withdrawal and recognize its failed execution.

I would have been happy if W, Obama, Orange Man Bad, or Biden did it. Just better.

 

[Wood Hall]

"Failed execution?" We're gone, as are more than 125,000 Afghans. Yes, there were 13 American deaths. Suicide bombers are tough to stop. And only someone totally divorced from reality could believe we'd be able to evacuate every single Afghan who wanted out.

You can tell the 6,000 servicemen and women who were there the past three weeks, and the generals who oversaw the operation, that they bungled the evacuation. Just like you can tell the hundreds of Capitol/Washington police who were assaulted and injured on Jan. 6 that you support law enforcement.

Good thing you weren't around for the evacuation Saigon and SVN if you think this was a "failed execution." If you want an example of a truly bungled mission, please google "Gerald Ford" and "Mayaguez."