The Biden Doctrine

Gallipoli

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He always advocated cutting off everyone in Afghanistan.
"In a private conversation with Richard Holbrooke, who was President Barack Obama’s special envoy to Afghanistan and Pakistan, Biden argued that the United States does not have an obligation to Afghans who trusted the United States, according to “Our Man,” a biography of Holbrooke by George Packer....
We don’t have to worry about that,” Biden told Holbrooke, according to the book. “We did it in Vietnam. Nixon and Kissinger got away with it,” he said, referring to President Richard Nixon and Henry Kissinger, who was secretary of state to Nixon and Ford."

 

Gallipoli

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He was clear that he wanted out of Vietnam, no matter what.
"In early 1975, Biden had initially agreed to go on a congressional fact-finding mission to South Vietnam.

The trip’s organizers wanted to make a case that additional U.S. aid would be helpful, and Biden was criticized by some conservative pundits for being too set in his views.
Biden, they complained, was clear that he wanted U.S. military aid ended no matter what he might see on the ground."
 

Gallipoli

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The WaPo article misquoted old Joe...per the Atlantic, ...
Holbrooke, who was the Obama administration's special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan in 2010, asked Biden whether the US had a moral obligation to remain in Afghanistan to protect people like that little girl.

"F--- that, we don't have to worry about that. We did it in Vietnam, Nixon and Kissinger got away with it," Biden replied, according to Holbrooke's diary, as cited by the Atlantic.
 

Gallipoli

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They are leaving Americans there.,..

As many as 10,000 to 15,000 U.S. citizens are believed to still be in Afghanistan, though officials have provided conflicting figures. The U.S. Embassy in Kabul repeatedly warned this week that it could not guarantee the safety of Americans attempting to make their way to the airport. American officials said that 3,200 U.S. residents have been evacuated as of Tuesday evening, and there have been 7,000 total evacuees since Aug. 14. They also said the U.S. has relocated roughly 2,000 Afghan immigrants so far.

 

Gallipoli

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Biden looks like a deer in headlights, as he makes history in Afghanistan.

Not since Major General William Elphinstone’s retreating British army was picked off in 1842, has a foreign occupier left Afghanistan under such a cloud. It took three years after the Soviet withdrawal in 1989 for its Kabul ally to submit to mujahideen forces. It was two years after the US military’s exit from Vietnam before Saigon fell to the communists in 1975. On Monday Kabul folded to the Taliban almost three weeks before the official day of America’s departure. “We look like a deer caught in the headlights,” says Mathew Burrows, a former senior CIA officer now at the Atlantic Council. “
https://www.ft.com/content/c6e012d4...egmentId=b385c2ad-87ed-d8ff-aaec-0f8435cd42d9
 

Gallipoli

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It gets worse.

"In addition to closing Bagram first, there are three additional questions about Biden’s competence. The first is the volume of US military equipment that has been left behind for the Taliban, including aircraft, hundreds of military Humvees and tens of thousands of rifles, rockets and night vision goggles. The second is whether Biden ignored intelligence estimates suggesting the Taliban could recapture power on a far more rapid timeline than the six to 18 months the White House was saying. The third is Biden’s failure to consult fully with Nato allies about the speed and logistics of the pull out. On all three, the decision ultimately boils down to the president."

https://www.ft.com/content/c6e012d4...egmentId=b385c2ad-87ed-d8ff-aaec-0f8435cd42d9

And, this guy is a Biden supporter. With friends like the Financial Times, who needs enemies, ...like the Taliban.
 

KE Spider

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9 posts in a row must be some kind of a record
Well, it is not as if Gallipoli is passing along misinformation. Most every statement is supported by a link for anyone to review.

Based on the statements of the Prez - Monday and today, throw in the Stephanopoulos interview - versus the facts on the ground reported by multiple news sources, domestic and foreign, left or right leaning, not convinced the Administration could meet that standard.

Sorry to have to say that, but this is a cluster f for our country that was totally avoidable.
 
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Eight Legger

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Well, it is not as if Gallipoli is passing along misinformation. Most every statement is supported by a link for anyone to review.

Based on the statements of the Prez - Monday and today, throw in the Stephanopoulos interview - versus the facts on the ground reported by multiple news sources, domestic and foreign, left or right leaning, not convinced the Administration could meet that standard.

Sorry to have to say that, but this is a cluster f for our country that was totally avoidable.
Pretty sure you can't trust the liberal media, so we know those reports from the left must be wrong...
 

Gallipoli

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NBC and the WAPO first termed it the Biden Doctrine. Surrender abroad, open the borders at home. At first, I thought he had nothing to do with it, but the more I read, the more certain I am that Biden ordered the Afghan withdrawal.
 

Eight Legger

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NBC and the WAPO first termed it the Biden Doctrine. Surrender abroad, open the borders at home. At first, I thought he had nothing to do with it, but the more I read, the more certain I am that Biden ordered the Afghan withdrawal.
You trust what NBC and the Washington Post have to say about anything? Bahahaha
 

Gallipoli

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I take a modicum of solace in believing ......"the future is bright". :)
President Biden owns this defeat. He sacrificed his domestic agenda, his Presidency, and the country's status in the world. Things are worse now, but you are right. He is a one term President. This country is stronger than this. Yes, the future is bright.
 
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Gallipoli

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In President Biden's desire to be out of Afghanistan by 9/11, he forget about all of the equipment he left behind.
This is pretty bad.
American helicopters, U.S.-supplied M24 sniper rifles and M18 assault weapons, stacks of other small arms and materiel in unending piles and driving Humvees and other U.S.-made military trucks.
This is pathetic
The Taliban have seized airplanes, tanks and artillery from Afghan outposts and from evacuating U.S. personnel
It`s pretty bad:
The U.S. has also transferred anti-tank missiles, automatic grenade launchers, mortars and rocket-propelled grenades to Afghan forces.
It gets worse :
The U.S. sent nearly 600,000 small arms, 76,000 vehicles and 208 airplanes to Afghanistan’s military and police from 2003 to 2016, according to a 2017 Government Accountability Office report, one of the few such compilations. The most recent quarterly report of the U.S.-led military coalition documented deliveries of 174 Humvees, nearly three million rounds of ammunition, and nearly 100,000 2.75-inch rockets during the period....

In case you were wondering, this came from the Wall Street Journal.

Taliban Seize, Stockpile U.S. Weapons in Afghanistan https://www.wsj.com/articles/taliba...iling-helicopters-guns-and-trucks-11629470916
 
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Gallipoli

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Now I will present my opinion.
Joe Biden has immeasurably hurt the Republic. He has destroyed our credibility on the world stage. The jackass didnt even consult with our allies. He has emboldened our enemies. He has allowed a terrorist safe haven to reconstitute, putting the homeland at risk. He has left stranded tens of thousands of your fellow citizens behind enemy lines and he is afraid to help them. I think the idiot has offered cash to the Taliban to allow Americans to reach the Kabul airport. All so he could say that he ended our presence in Afghanistan before September 11, 2021. He hopes this will all blow over and that the media will cover it up. This is sad. This is disgusting. This is shameful.
 

Eight Legger

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The Afghan military abandoned all the equipment we gave it, in a matter of days. Should we have anticipated that would happen and taken it all back, all at once, pre-emptively? Just casually drive 78,000 vehicles to the airport, round up those 208 airplanes and load them up to fly home? Maybe no one would have noticed...

I'm not sure what you would have done differently in some of these cases. If our own troops abandoned our equipment, that's one thing. But the equipment we gave to Afghanistan in years past, unfortunately, is going to be a casualty of their ineptness. That's a risk you take when you decide to arm another nation -- that one day that stuff might end up being used against you by someone else.
 

Spider B

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EL, how about getting American citizens out of the country before withdrawing?? Thats something our military is perfectly capable of doing. Instead, you have atleast 10,000 Americans totally reliant on the Taliban for survival. If you can't see this is a total disaster then you are blind. Take off your blue glasses and look at the facts. This is a total disaster no matter your political affiliation. In the word of Biden, "come on man!"
 

Eight Legger

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I'm not disagreeing with that, I was specifically addressing the claim that "we" left all this military equipment there. No, "we" didn't.
 
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Ferrum Spider

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American corporate media last 15 years. “We need to leave Afghanistan no matter what it isn’t winnable, what a clusterf$-!?”

American coorporate media this week: “NOT LIKE THAT!!!”

Four presidents from two different parties all played a part in this. I am no fan of Biden or any of the party politics that turn Americans against one another while the elite watch us fight over scraps as a blood sport form of entertainment. But the revisionist history here is comical.

Funny that out of those 9 posts of mostly cherry picked misinformation and incoherent rambling masquerading as “facts” there is no mention of this withdrawal being part of an agreement from the PREVIOUS administration where they signed a peace deal with the Taliban. No one seemed to be upset then. Trump actually called for a withdrawal by may. This is about as bipartisan as we can get guys. Yet people want to assign blame to one person or party.

All that money burned by both parties over the last two decades that could of been spent on rebuilding this country that has gone to shit because of infighting over stupid superficial arguments where politics are a zero sum game to some people. We just HAD to go attack a country that hasn’t been conquered since Alexander the Great did it. Yet we sit here shocked that we couldn’t pull it off?

Anyone who thinks that withdrawal would go as smoothly with any of the three previous presidents is delusional and needs not only a lesson in geopolitics but common sense as well.

This whole thing was nothing more than to make a few military contractors rich. It was never about nation building or protecting our “freedoms”.
 
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spider fan

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The way that Joe Biden bungled the withdrawal of American troops was an unmitigated and unnecessary disaster. The United States has sent troops back in an attempt to safely extricate some of our citizens and some Afghans under the Special Immigrant Visa program. The British, French, and Germans have sent out their troops beyond the Kabul airport to extricate their citizens. Meanwhile our Secretary of Defense stated: “I don’t have the capability to go out and extend operations currently into Kabul.” The impotency and weakness of our foreign policy is on display. This statement from the British Parliament captures the essence of the disgust.
Tom Tugendhat, a Conservative lawmaker and chairman of parliament's Foreign Affairs Select Committee who himself served in Afghanistan, told the hushed chamber that he, like other veterans, felt anger and grief.
"I've watched good men go into the earth, taking with them a part of me, and a part of all of us," he said.

"To see (Biden) call into question the courage of men I fought with, to claim that they ran, is shameful. Those who have never fought for the colours they fly should be careful about criticising those who have."
 
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Gallipoli

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This whole thing was nothing more than to make a few military contractors rich. It was never about nation building or protecting our “freedoms
No It was about denying the Taliban and Al Qaeda a safe haven. Biden says there are no AQ in Afghanistan. The No. 2 Taliban is a diehard senior AQ member.
 

KE Spider

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With respect to the thread title, Biden Doctrine, it appears to be cut, run, and blame others. "Come on Man", own it.

Most folks on this board could have developed a more coherent withdrawal strategy. Unilaterally closing 7 US bases, including most importantly Bagram (at night without informing our Afgan allies), was a brain dead decision when we had tens of thousands of US citizens and NATO allies in the country.

The President wanted a victory lap on the 20th anniversary of 9/11. It blew up in his face bc he failed to listen to his advisors in the Defense, State, and the intelligence agencies.
 

Ferrum Spider

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No It was about denying the Taliban and Al Qaeda a safe haven. Biden says there are no AQ in Afghanistan. The No. 2 Taliban is a diehard senior AQ member.
LOL....Mike Pompeo, the previous presidents SOS, attended a signing ceremony with the Taliban to finish off a peace deal as long as they "promised not to be terrorists or harbor them anymore". I guess they didn't get the memo. This was after they had the brilliant idea to meet with them at Camp David right around the anniversary of 9/11 which got cancelled and culminated in Pompeo meeting in Doha with the Taliban. I'm sure you were furious when that happened?
 

KE Spider

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LOL....Mike Pompeo, the previous presidents SOS, attended a signing ceremony with the Taliban to finish off a peace deal as long as they "promised not to be terrorists or harbor them anymore". I guess they didn't get the memo. This was after they had the brilliant idea to meet with them at Camp David right around the anniversary of 9/11 which got cancelled and culminated in Pompeo meeting in Doha with the Taliban. I'm sure you were furious when that happened?
Hopelessly partisan. The humiliation of our country is 100% on the withdrawal "strategy" of the current Administration. You know that. I know that. America knows that. The World knows that.
 

Ferrum Spider

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Hopelessly partisan. The humiliation of our country is 100% on the withdrawal "strategy" of the current Administration. You know that. I know that. America knows that. The World knows that.
Sorry but hopelessly partisan is starting a 9 post diatribe to get likes, not adding additional context to it only for have blowhards come after me when I can be enjoying my weekend. Do you want me to say Biden sucks too? Because he does. Guess that makes me hopelessly partisan.

You’re talking down to someone who takes a George Carlin approach to the dumbassery of the two party system and the people that beat the drums of their rhetoric. Not everyone that points out facts with ones personal opinion is “hopelessly partisan“.


It's ok. The first step to recovery is to admit that you are in denial.
Guess it’s just easier to behave chauvinistically than to answer my question. I suggest you take a look in the Webster’s and look up projection. Your avatar would be right next to it.
 
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Ferrum Spider

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I quoted almost exclusively liberal news outlets. The diatribe came from the left.
And yet you still can’t respond directly (or correctly quote me) to my question to you about the previous administration agreeing to this deal because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You just want to turn this into some red/blue non sense as if I care about what color team is to blame. There is no “left” media in this country. Just sensationalist and corporate that stand to make a lot of money trying to divide Americans and get ratings. Unfortunately it works really well.
 
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