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The Biden Doctrine

My point is that regardless of how we sought to remove 80,000 or more people from Afghanistan, it was going to be a challenge if the Afghan military folded immediately, which it's now clear would have happened whenever we began this process. But we didn't know that would happen until it did – we expected them to help and defend their country, their people and our people as we evacuated them. Instead, they put down their arms right away and ran.

So I'm suggesting that, retrospectively with that knowledge, we would have been better off beefing up our troops there and doing the job ourselves. I'm not sure how you glean from that statement that I think things are going smoothly. Obviously they aren't. But I am saying that we've removed more than 50,000 people in a week without any loss of American life. Had we done that three weeks ago, people would have been celebrating it as a huge accomplishment.
 
Hard to imagine a more incompetent strategy than what the Biden administration has done. The French, British, and Germans sent troops into other parts of the country to extricate their citizens. Why didn't we? There is absolutely no excuse for allowing the Taliban to call the shots and leaving our citizens and the Afghans who helped us at risk.
 
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But we didn't know that would happen until it did – we expected them to help and defend their country, their people and our people as we evacuated them. Instead, they put down their arms right away and ran.
Two fundamental questions arise:
What did Biden know and when did he know it?
What did Biden pay (or offer to pay) and when did he pay it?

The answers to these 2 questions determine the extent there was a cover-up.
 
Estimates on American evacuations show about 3,800 evacuated (this does not include the 400 soldiers claimed by the Biden Administration). There are about 8,000 still left. Experts think we will not be able to get those out.
Please feel free to post a better source, if one is available.

 
I agree that it would be important to know what our intelligence reported to Biden prior to this. Though I suspect the reports were that the Afghan military would do what we had trained it to do. The question then becomes, should Biden have taken that advice or rejected it.
 
The Afghans had 66,000 deaths fighting the Taliban. They lost the will to fight after Biden's ill advised withdrawal announcement, abandonment, and disrespect he conveyed by his words. Of course there were military shortcomings but Biden's words caused resentment among the Afghan fighters and all of the brave Americans who fought as well as the survivors of those who died fighting. Put yourself in the shoes of military spouses and parents whose loved one made the ultimate sacrifice. Ask the U.S. military pilots who were forced to "stand down" but could fly overhead and watch the Taliban crush Afghan fighters in firefights that days before were protected by U.S. air power. It is an ill conceived fiasco that could have been prevented. Time will tell how much this will cost the U.S. in blood and treasure.
 
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ISIS or Al Qaeda is trying to shoot down an airplane. If they succeed, only more death and destruction will be wrought on the poor people of Afghanistan.

"Fears are mounting that the Islamic State affiliate in the region, ISIS-K, could try and launch an attack on the crowds masses outside the airport. Joe Biden on Tuesday warned that ISIS-K were believed to be attempting to target departing jets, as he explained why it was unlikely that U.S. forces will remain in the area beyond August 31."

Why would anyone take children to Afghanistan?

"Among those left are 23 school children from California Cajon Valley Union School District and 16 parents who visited the war zone on a summer trip to see extended family and haven't been able to leave. "

 
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The descent into chaos is starting. With a second explosion, one should presume is a coordinated attack and it is on-going.
 
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He's being briefed and deciding what to do next. He's addressed the nation several times in the past week. Not sure what else you want him to do publicly, go on TV every five minutes?

The alternative, I suppose, would be to say nothing publicly for 12 days, the way Trump did after four of our soldiers were killed in Niger in 2017.
 
He's being briefed and deciding what to do next. He's addressed the nation several times in the past week. Not sure what else you want him to do publicly, go on TV every five minutes?

The alternative, I suppose, would be to say nothing publicly for 12 days, the way Trump did after four of our soldiers were killed in Niger in 2017.

Respectfully, it's as if you have Talking Points memo cue cards handy for all outcomes here.

If responding (or not) like Trump is the standard, it would seem like it is probably time to start an investigation and impeach Sleepy Joe once or twice here, i guess.

Prayers for the families of all the Marines and civilians killed today. And for the countless others that will be killed after we pull the plug on the mission in the next day or so here. A truly sad and embarrassing chapter in US foreign policy that will be remembered for a long, long time.
 
No talking points, just thought it was a strange critique to suggest that an hour after this happened, the first thing Biden should have done was hop on TV for the third time in a week, that's all.

I don't lay the blame for anything that has happened there entirely with one person. Bush, Obama, Trump and Biden have all ****ed up in their own ways. That much is evident. That's why 2,500 US troops have died there. Everyone has wanted us to leave for years now, but leaving in an orderly, violence-free fashion was always impossible, which is why it has taken us 20 years to even try.

This column pretty well sums up my personal opinions on Afghanistan: https://thehill.com/opinion/nationa...ss-afghanistan-was-wrong-from-start-to-finish

Got word that my nephew was not injured in today's attack, and I'm thankful for that but crushed for the families of those who died, because it very easily could have been any of those troops.
 
No EL, the blame does not belong to Bush, Obama, or Trump. The current situation is all Bidens doing. He pulled troops out before getting American citizens and Afghanies that had helped us out of harms way. What he did is indefensible. He left Americans behind. That was 100% his choice. Pathetic.
 
Not only are American citizens trapped, but so are British, French and Australian. Our allies may never trust us again. They were there, because we were. We owe them something, not for their people to be hurt, killed or maimed.
 
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No talking points, just thought it was a strange critique to suggest that an hour after this happened, the first thing Biden should have done was hop on TV for the third time in a week, that's all...
I think he is talking too much, and saying the wrong things. Unless he announces that he will change his mind and resume the offensive in Afghanistan, Joe Biden can do nothing more than harm the situation.

According to CNN, Biden will speak on Kabul attack today

From CNN's Kaitlan Collins :
President Biden will speak today on the attacks in Kabul, Afghanistan, a source familiar with the plans tells CNN.
He plans to speak at 5 p.m. ET, a source said.
 
My point of "Where is the Commander-in-Chief" was not that Biden should talk; my point is that he should adopt a competent policy, stand up for our country, and quit kowtowing to the Taliban. His policies are weak and those policies are disgraceful and costing lives. His leadership is MIA. When he does "talk" he reads from cue cards and is unable and unwilling to respond in real time to questions.
 
Pray the administration will put together a coherent plan that protects the Americans remaining in Afghanistan and the Afghans who supported us. My heart breaks for the families of the 10 Marines, the 2 Army service members, and the Navy Corpsman who were killed yesterday as well as the at least 18 who were wounded.
 
Without a marked change in strategy this nightmare is going to drag on with more tragic cost in blood and money. Leadership is needed starting at the top. What happened yesterday is inexcusable.
 
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How stupid can they be? Joe Biden's regime provided the names and addresses of our citizens and our allies to our enemies. This is a high crime. IMPEACH BIDEN.

Agreed, this is insanely stupid by any metric. Not sure how this could be defended in a meaningful way. Dumb and dangerous. I didn't really think he explained it well yesterday at all.
My point of "Where is the Commander-in-Chief" was not that Biden should talk; my point is that he should adopt a competent policy, stand up for our country, and quit kowtowing to the Taliban. His policies are weak and those policies are disgraceful and costing lives. His leadership is MIA. When he does "talk" he reads from cue cards and is unable and unwilling to respond in real time to questions.
Trump is the one who kowtowed to the Taliban, released 5,000 prisoners in exchange for 1,000 and signed a deal with them. Did you support those moves or not? Pompeo was posing for photos with the Taliban leader in February last year. Good idea or nah? Some 50 US troops died in Afghanistan under Trump's watch. Did that outrage you too? Biden said yesterday that we will hunt down the ISIS terrorists who did this, and he responded to questions in real time.
No EL, the blame does not belong to Bush, Obama, or Trump. The current situation is all Bidens doing. He pulled troops out before getting American citizens and Afghanies that had helped us out of harms way. What he did is indefensible. He left Americans behind. That was 100% his choice. Pathetic.
Trump's deal said we had to be out of there by May. People were upset at first that Biden didn't stick to that timeline, now they want us to send thousands more troops over there. Which is it? You're entitled to your opinion, of course. I hold a different one, no big deal.

In the 13 days since Aug. 14, we've now pulled more than 105,000 people out of Afghanistan. Did you think that we could have just covertly pulled that many people out of Afghanistan secretly without the Taliban knowing we were doing it? I guess this is what I don't fully understand. The Taliban already knew we were leaving after Trump signed the deal, it was just a matter of when. May, July, August, whenever it was, we now know that the Afghan army was going to roll over immediately whenever the Taliban said "boo" – and whenever we started moving tens of thousands of people out of the country, the Taliban was going to say "boo."

I'm also not sure that there's ever been a mass exodus like this in which we successfully evacuated every single person who wanted to leave. Should that be our expectation? I don't know, but it seems like a pretty tall order when you're talking about 150,000 people or more.

I feel like I'm defending Biden when really I'm not. I don't think he's the best person we could have elected president, not by a longshot. He was my preferred option of the two choices we had, obviously, but that's not saying much. He's deserving of very real criticism for some of what has happened in the last week or so. But this situation didn't start two weeks ago, and if you're not looking at the past few years and what has led up to this, you're not looking at the whole picture.
 
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Biden is the Commander-in-Chief - Donald Trump no longer holds that office. Biden has bungled the exit to a degree that most people could not imagine. Biden gave up Bagram Air Base freeing 1000's of ISIS-K prisoners. EL, hold any opinion you want but our citizens, the Afghans who supported us, and our military are at risk today because of a lack of leadership. Trying to blame predecessors for one's own failures is pathetic. Sadly Joe Biden is lacking the ability to lead. Desire for power is placed above the good of the country.
 
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All I'm saying is that you can't just act like the world began Jan. 20. Trump released 5,000 prisoners, not Biden. Acting as if that had nothing to do with what's going on now is ignorant. It was one factor of many. I agree that Biden has made some mistakes on his own, however.

(Incidentally, this is an example of why I don't believe you can place all blame or credit for anything on any president. Even as awful a president as Trump was, there were plenty of things that we're entirely his fault, either, like his failure to reduce the debt – which every president claims he wants, but none actually achieve because of a lot of ongoing issues that they inherit and can't fix in four years.)

You're also glossing over the fact that 105,000 US citizens and Afghans are no longer at risk, because we have evacuated them in the past 13 days. Of course some people in Afghanistan will ALWAYS be at risk. We can't save everyone. We can't evacuate everyone. Afghanistan is full of terrorists who want to kill us and others. Terrorists are going to be terrorists, unfortunately.
 
EL, Biden has been at best incompetent during the withdrawal from Afghanistan, his handling of the border, and his massive irresponsible government handouts. He is well on his way to being one of the worst Presidents ever. He has now cost people their lives and will cost more people their lives in the near future in Afghanistan. It is an absolute disaster. If you can't see that, I don't know what to tell you.
 
All I'm saying is that you can't just act like the world began Jan. 20. Trump released 5,000 prisoners, not Biden. Acting as if that had nothing to do with what's going on now is ignorant. It was one factor of many. I agree that Biden has made some mistakes on his own, however.
... Afghanistan is full of terrorists who want to kill us and others. Terrorists are going to be terrorists, unfortunately.
Seth Moulton (D-Mass) says this is an F---g disaster, caused by Biden. This is a fair assessment, without the political spin.
 
As to the tactics of our wind-down of Bagram, i realize the presentation of this information isn't overwhelmingly impressive, but the substance of it is 'material' to analysis of the utter incompetence of Sleepy Joe and his administration.

Good catch. "A decision was made" is the same as someone else made the decision, with the options Gen. Milley placed before him. That decisionmaker had to be Joe Biden. I do not understand how these military leaders can sit there and listen to, and defend, this garbage. IMHO, one or more of the top brass will resign in protest. If not, shame on them.
 
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Biden: Taliban who? Oh ok. Spidernation: Fire Mooney.
Biden: Retreat now. Spidernation: Fire Mooney.
VMI: playoff bound. Spidernation: Fire Mooney.
China: COVID. Spidernation: Fire Mooney.
 
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All I'm saying is that you can't just act like the world began Jan. 20. Trump released 5,000 prisoners, not Biden. Acting as if that had nothing to do with what's going on now is ignorant. It was one factor of many. I agree that Biden has made some mistakes on his own, however.

(Incidentally, this is an example of why I don't believe you can place all blame or credit for anything on any president. Even as awful a president as Trump was, there were plenty of things that we're entirely his fault, either, like his failure to reduce the debt – which every president claims he wants, but none actually achieve because of a lot of ongoing issues that they inherit and can't fix in four years.)

You're also glossing over the fact that 105,000 US citizens and Afghans are no longer at risk, because we have evacuated them in the past 13 days. Of course some people in Afghanistan will ALWAYS be at risk. We can't save everyone. We can't evacuate everyone. Afghanistan is full of terrorists who want to kill us and others. Terrorists are going to be terrorists, unfortunately.

EL if you want to try to justify this mind boggling inept sh@t show by blaming previous administrations TOO, have at it. You are a seller with very few buyers.

Biden totally owns this withdrawal strategy. His time up to bat. His folks. His decisions. His miscalculations. Facts are just not there to support deflection of blame for the withdrawal debacle to others to any meaningful degree
IMHO.

Our country has been humiliated Worldwide. Allies are nervous. Enemies are energized. US citizens will be left behind. Twenty year allies will be left behind. Allies tumbled from American planes desperately trying to flee. American are dead with more to come IMO. Could it be worse?

The worst tactical withdrawal imaginable. It is Biden's.
 
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