Smithen and Diekvoss transferring
- Thread starter Eight Legger
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PA, of note, there were only 87 4-star players listed on Rivals for 2015 and there are 72 Power5 conference schools. We aren't going to get a lot of looks from such a small pool, so I think you might need to adjust your expectations.
I do agree that we haven't shown much success landing our primary recruits, but frankly, those on this board probably have very little insight into what is really going on with any of these guys and if we have a realistic shot with them. Did we really have a shot at landing Andrew White when he had an offer from Kansas? I would guess not.
We have landed some guys who had high offers elsewhere. TA, ANO, Ced, Robbins, Garrett, KA, Gonzo, Tim Singleton and even Stephen Kendall were all 3 star guys. The rankings are somewhat dubious. I think we also get in early with some guys and land them before they have a chance to show up elsewhere (Julius Johnson is a good example).
I do think last year was a bad year for us. Now the staff has a chance to possibly upgrade at two spots.
Agree of the recruiting needs to improve. I'm not asking for 4 star guys, I understand that is pretty unrealistic for our program. What I think is reasonable though is recruiting guys who have other offers from other A-10 schools and some of the lower tier BCS programs on a consistent basis.
The writing was on the wall for Diekvoss and Smithen as soon as they committed. Diekvoss had one other offer from Northern Kentucky, which was not even a D-1 school at the time. Smithen had one other offer and it was from Sienna (and remember Smithen came to us late, so it was not like we were on him early and locked him in before the big boys came sniffing).
I remember at the time being disappointed with both recruitments. If other comparable schools are not offering these guys, it meant one of two things. 1: Mooney and his staff have a savant like eye for good talent that fits in there system 2. We over recruited on Smithen and Diekvoss.
I think a year later the answer to that is pretty obvious. I don't want this to be construed as Mooney bashing, I'm not trying to bash the guy, I am all on board for next year and actually have re-evaluated some of my former positions on him based on the job he did at the end of the year. But at the same time, when people say our recruiting needs to get better, this is what is meant by it. 10 years in we should not be recruiting guys whose only other offers are Northern Kentucky and Sienna.
The writing was on the wall for Diekvoss and Smithen as soon as they committed. Diekvoss had one other offer from Northern Kentucky, which was not even a D-1 school at the time. Smithen had one other offer and it was from Sienna (and remember Smithen came to us late, so it was not like we were on him early and locked him in before the big boys came sniffing).
I remember at the time being disappointed with both recruitments. If other comparable schools are not offering these guys, it meant one of two things. 1: Mooney and his staff have a savant like eye for good talent that fits in there system 2. We over recruited on Smithen and Diekvoss.
I think a year later the answer to that is pretty obvious. I don't want this to be construed as Mooney bashing, I'm not trying to bash the guy, I am all on board for next year and actually have re-evaluated some of my former positions on him based on the job he did at the end of the year. But at the same time, when people say our recruiting needs to get better, this is what is meant by it. 10 years in we should not be recruiting guys whose only other offers are Northern Kentucky and Sienna.
I would agree with your assessment 97. As noted, I think we had a bad year last year. Not sure why, maybe just a case where we missed on guys we really wanted and ended up with these guys instead. I don't specifically recall who I think our top targets where, but remember thinking that we got a slew of guys that didn't feel like were much on the radar and suddenly were offers/verbals.
We will obviously miss from time to time. I think we get more right than wrong, we have some very good players and have historically had some very good guys.
I think the key is being able to recognize when something isn't going to work. I've seen a lot more of that with guys like Wayne last year, and perhaps Kadeem and Chandler this year (hard to know with either since they played so little). But I am glad to see that we are not idly keeping guys who likely aren't at the level we need them to be.
We will obviously miss from time to time. I think we get more right than wrong, we have some very good players and have historically had some very good guys.
I think the key is being able to recognize when something isn't going to work. I've seen a lot more of that with guys like Wayne last year, and perhaps Kadeem and Chandler this year (hard to know with either since they played so little). But I am glad to see that we are not idly keeping guys who likely aren't at the level we need them to be.
that's certainly possible but when you have a starter with Deion's stats, I think you would have looked at more time for potential development from underclass recruits. You really don't know how a player is going to react to no playing time generally, but especially when starters are struggling and you still don't get any time.
recruiting is really tough. maybe it's easy when you're Kentucky. at UR, you need a crystal ball. sometimes you're totally right. you find a guy that's a little under the radar but you see something. you believe he'll develop into more than he is and more than others think he'll be. you get in there and work hard, with him, with his family, with his coaches. you get him leaning your way. and then he blows up three months earlier than you hoped he would. next thing you know, Kansas is offering and you're done (AW). or other higher major conference programs jump in late (Henderson and Wood).
you just can't recruit everybody. at the end of the evaluation period, you're going after 15-20 kids tops. some blow up and drop you. others don't blow up and then you're not sure if you were right in the first place.
back to CM and playing time, I totally don't agree with the belief that he unjustly gives preference to seniors. he plays who he feels gives us the best chance to win. a lot of times that's seniors. but even this season, Fore was going to get a lot of burn. CM clearly didn't see Smithen at the same level.
I doubt Paul gets much run next year because we're so deep in the front court, but if he's ready and one of the best then he'll play. Julius will have a chance. he brings shooting and we always need that. if he can do everything else, I totally believe he'll play. Mooney's not trying to handicap himself by sitting the most talented players he has on the roster. but the young guys have a long list of experienced guys to beat out.
you just can't recruit everybody. at the end of the evaluation period, you're going after 15-20 kids tops. some blow up and drop you. others don't blow up and then you're not sure if you were right in the first place.
back to CM and playing time, I totally don't agree with the belief that he unjustly gives preference to seniors. he plays who he feels gives us the best chance to win. a lot of times that's seniors. but even this season, Fore was going to get a lot of burn. CM clearly didn't see Smithen at the same level.
I doubt Paul gets much run next year because we're so deep in the front court, but if he's ready and one of the best then he'll play. Julius will have a chance. he brings shooting and we always need that. if he can do everything else, I totally believe he'll play. Mooney's not trying to handicap himself by sitting the most talented players he has on the roster. but the young guys have a long list of experienced guys to beat out.
agree, think it is silly to assume a coach is not going to play the guys who will give the team the best chance to win, wins are the bottom line and what keeps his job or loses his job. will a coach have favs, you betcha but he also knows that a guy giving him probs but who can perform when the lights come on, is going to play.
I would also add that while many on here knock TD and DT (myself included from time to time), those guys are both tremendous athletes who do bring a ton of energy to our defense, know the offensive sets, and can typically guard 2-5. They also do a lot of rebounding on an otherwise less than stellar rebounding team.
I don't think they're starting "just because." CM values the things they do bring in game, but it's obvious to all that scoring isn't on that list as a general rule.
I don't think they're starting "just because." CM values the things they do bring in game, but it's obvious to all that scoring isn't on that list as a general rule.
Unfortunately, there is no platooning in basketball like there is in football. You can't play only offense or defense, you have to play on both ends of the court. If you're a great defender, you still need to be at least an average threat on the offensive end We might be able to get by with one defensive "specialist" on the court, but not two at the same time. This was our problem this year.
It should be, I didn't say otherwise. There seems to be a sentiment that we aren't playing our 5 best guys. I'm merely suggesting that the sum total of what TD/DT bring might actually be more than what Josh Jones might bring, for example.
Not making any judgments, just stating that both guys are pretty phenomenal athletes and obviously do have value to offer.
We don't know what the instructions for Trey are. He shot 30% from 3 point range, not good, but not the worst. But he shot close to 50% inside the arc. He hustles for loose balls, steals, rebounds, when needed, he had 4 games in double figures scoring. He's a big plus for this spider team.
Would completely agree. I'd have them shooting free throws under someone's tutelage constantly, then give them the green light to drive. Trey in particular started to come up with some nice spin moves and both guys have no trouble playing above the rim. Three point shot should be a distant second option until their confidence is there (and a good success rate).
I see what you're doing, and I like it.
Also, Smithen is visiting Siena soon. That would be a nice landing spot for him.
Also, Smithen is visiting Siena soon. That would be a nice landing spot for him.
Look out for Paul Friendshuh. Saw him at practice; really agile and quick for a big man. FYI, he was in the running for Mr. Basketball in Minnesota, the trophy win by Tyus Jones of Duke. Remember you heard here first. Paul will be a significant contributor!
Interesting story about one of our transfer outs, Wayne Sparrow. Saw this in a JOC article:
Odd flight path for Sparrow
Guard Wayne Sparrow graduated from UR last spring and had another season of eligibility. He transferred to UMBC, near his Baltimore home.
Sparrow averaged 14 points in 20 games, then an odd thing happened. He left the team after there was an issue with the graduate program in which he intended to enroll for the spring semester.
Sparrow now plays professionally in Bolivia.
Odd flight path for Sparrow
Guard Wayne Sparrow graduated from UR last spring and had another season of eligibility. He transferred to UMBC, near his Baltimore home.
Sparrow averaged 14 points in 20 games, then an odd thing happened. He left the team after there was an issue with the graduate program in which he intended to enroll for the spring semester.
Sparrow now plays professionally in Bolivia.
It is surprising to me that no one on this thread so far has asked the question: "If you had to pick two guys who would transfer out, who would you PREFER to see leave?" If the most common answer would be: "Exactly the two guys who did transfer out!," then we have a thread from which you can only draw one conclusion: GREAT JOB COACHING STAFF!!!!
As anyone in Human Resources knows, turnover is neither good nor bad, in itself. The only thing that matters about turnove is whether you are losing your top players or your bottom players. If TJ Cline and ShawnDre had announced they were transfering, how would this board react then? In the latter case, there would also be only one conclusion to draw: "You lost two of your best players, so... TERRIBLE JOB COACHES!" We should be immensely grateful that the two guys who are leavng are the two most likely to be sitting deep on the bench for the next four years.
My hope is that these transfer decisions were reached based on "heart-to-heart" conversations about future playing time. Assuming that these guys were not the quiet leaders of this team, and assuming this does not hurt our team chemistry, I believe we all have to see this as a sign that our program has become very serious about winning and about returning more often to the Big Dance. I personally believe this is a win/win for the players transfering out, the team, and the long-term viability of the program. To me this is a sign that we should be signing up to renew our season tickets, sooner rather than later! This is the best news I have seen on this board since the signing of our incomming freshman 2-G, Julius Johnon, who was our top target, and likely to someday be an outstanding player. This news is like seeing a bright light at the end of a very long, 4-year, tunnel.
As anyone in Human Resources knows, turnover is neither good nor bad, in itself. The only thing that matters about turnove is whether you are losing your top players or your bottom players. If TJ Cline and ShawnDre had announced they were transfering, how would this board react then? In the latter case, there would also be only one conclusion to draw: "You lost two of your best players, so... TERRIBLE JOB COACHES!" We should be immensely grateful that the two guys who are leavng are the two most likely to be sitting deep on the bench for the next four years.
My hope is that these transfer decisions were reached based on "heart-to-heart" conversations about future playing time. Assuming that these guys were not the quiet leaders of this team, and assuming this does not hurt our team chemistry, I believe we all have to see this as a sign that our program has become very serious about winning and about returning more often to the Big Dance. I personally believe this is a win/win for the players transfering out, the team, and the long-term viability of the program. To me this is a sign that we should be signing up to renew our season tickets, sooner rather than later! This is the best news I have seen on this board since the signing of our incomming freshman 2-G, Julius Johnon, who was our top target, and likely to someday be an outstanding player. This news is like seeing a bright light at the end of a very long, 4-year, tunnel.
As of TODAY, I'm not sure I completely agree with this. In both scenarios, it doesn't just depend on who transfers out but also who transfers in.
So as of today, I don't believe the two players who left are worse than the players that have transferred in so far this year.
This post was edited on 4/11 5:55 PM by urmite
13 guys on a roster is too many to keep everyone satisfied. you can't play them all and others are coming in behind. either you have a few players who accept the role of a practice player who support the others, or you'll have transfers. it's part of college basketball. the only way you won't get this is if you constantly have guys in redshirt years due to transfers or injuries, or if you have guys leaving early for the NBA. and even then you'll have transfers.
I think this was a good decision by Anderson, he seemed to be an "NBA-ready" sort of player this season before the finger injury. I suspect he will be a late first round or early second round selection.
He fits the same role as Traveon Graham, but is a much better player than TG in my opinion. I don't see Graham being drafted before the third round, if at all.
He fits the same role as Traveon Graham, but is a much better player than TG in my opinion. I don't see Graham being drafted before the third round, if at all.
Surprising about Anderson, cause it seemed like he was coming back. But probably a good decision.
And if Graham is waiting for to be picked in the third round, he's definitely screwed! There are only two rounds in the draft.
And if Graham is waiting for to be picked in the third round, he's definitely screwed! There are only two rounds in the draft.
I'm done with trying to predict who would make a good NBA player. Graham is a great fundamentally sound basketball player, which means he will probably go undrafted in favor of guys who 6'8 chiseled bodies and can jump out of the gym, but couldn't beat you in a game of horse if you spotted them the hors.
Really have to think that Anderson is a better NBA-type player than Graham. Agree that Graham is a good fundamentally sound player, but when the chips are down, it seems like his only move is to put his shoulder down and drive to his right. I don't think that works in the NBA. Anderson is more athletic, a better shooter, and a better defender. I think he gets drafted and plays in the NBA for a long time.
I thought that the Bembry kid from St. Joe's was the best player in the A10 this past year.
I thought that the Bembry kid from St. Joe's was the best player in the A10 this past year.
Wow, nice. We really have nothing in common with UAB or Rhody as schools, so it sounds like he is just looking for the best basketball opportunity. With him being from this region, you'd think we might have an edge if all else were equal.
Goodman also rates him as the #23 available transfer in the nation. Not sure why he says he is "likely" to sit next year. What other option would he have if he transfers?
This post was edited on 4/14 12:54 PM by Eight Legger
Top 25 transfers
Goodman also rates him as the #23 available transfer in the nation. Not sure why he says he is "likely" to sit next year. What other option would he have if he transfers?
This post was edited on 4/14 12:54 PM by Eight Legger
Top 25 transfers
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