Unless they bring in a sharp shooter who can contribute NOW, might as well save those 2 spots for incoming freshmen and round out the # per class. Sad to see these two guys leaving, but wish them all the best wherever they go.
Smithen and Diekvoss transferring
- Thread starter Eight Legger
- Start date
When we are a players by far best offer, you know it is a recruiting reach. That was the case for both Smithen and Diekvoss. No offense to either of them, but neither was going to be a huge impact player for the program. Smithen had a nice game, but you could tell it was more suited to a lower major type of program. And if Diekvoss was such a great shooter, he wouldn't have redshirted when we had a guy playing his position shooting less than 10% from 3 this year.
So in my mind, this is freeing up two slots to go after guys that could be big impact players. I don't know who said what and how it went down but this is how major programs get out of recruiting mistakes. I'm glad we are acting like a major program.
I like trolling the transfer waters for at least one of these slots. This should keep the message board interesting during the offseason.
This post was edited on 3/30 9:09 PM by 97spiderfan
So in my mind, this is freeing up two slots to go after guys that could be big impact players. I don't know who said what and how it went down but this is how major programs get out of recruiting mistakes. I'm glad we are acting like a major program.
I like trolling the transfer waters for at least one of these slots. This should keep the message board interesting during the offseason.
This post was edited on 3/30 9:09 PM by 97spiderfan
Way too many recent recruiting misses by MBBall.Seems like a disproportionate amount compared to Danny or Schafer teams.Likely outcome are transfers who have to sit out for a year.
As for Shafer teams, we've been one of the younger teams at times over past few seasons and injuries of some players have led to younger players getting into lineup. Recent examples are Okoro and Healy knee injuries and Wann didn't play her senior season due to concussions playing soccer. May not be totally right, but it seems there have just been more PT opps, so less reason to transfer.
Constant Aggravating A$$hole you are so missed and naturally you remained hidden in you cesspool till after the season was over.
But you have an opportunity when there is no discussion about the sheep and you try to insert your form of wisdom that makes my RPI
Yard Man seem like a brain surgeon. Yes even in North Carolina I could find a VCU yard man and I actually like him . We can actually say
good things about each team. Go back to your hole and hibernate till November and dream of winning a national championship. It is not a dream
for us as we already have TWO.
But you have an opportunity when there is no discussion about the sheep and you try to insert your form of wisdom that makes my RPI
Yard Man seem like a brain surgeon. Yes even in North Carolina I could find a VCU yard man and I actually like him . We can actually say
good things about each team. Go back to your hole and hibernate till November and dream of winning a national championship. It is not a dream
for us as we already have TWO.
what Mojo said, spot on. personally, want all my coaches recruiting over the guys we have currently, want guys coming in who will push for playing time, not guys we have to red shirt. if we are going to get better, attain the goals we want, OK, dance, we have to recruit better, smarter. should always be attempting to bring in guys better than the guys we have now. that should make the current guys work even harder and not just take things for granted.
Spinner, I do always want next year's freshmen to be better than last year's freshmen. But that is not my definition of over recruiting. What I consider over recruiting is having a player sign a LOI with no scholarship available and having the player transferring out, find out a month later that he is transferring out. I find that unethical. The other type of over recruiting is recruiting freshmen that as freshmen are better than our seniors as seniors. With Kevin Anderson & Justin Harper, I found that approach unrealistic.
i want the freshmen coming in better than our upper class men and yes you will have some players who they won't be but don't just want our frosh coming in being better than the frosh we brought in last year, want them being ready to play, take time away from the current roster. maybe am being unrealistic but feel that should always be the goal with new players. recruiting is the lifeblood, the foundation of the program along with the development of the players over their 4 years.
I am not going to worry about losing two players who couldn't get on the court. Diekvoss is only reminiscent of Winsconsin players in the sense that he is white. If we can replace them with impact transfers or more athletic incoming freshmen, then we will be fine.
I think both guys were reaches for our recruiting needs in the first place. Let's hope CM and staff doesn't waste this second opportunity with these 2 spots. Overall I think the recruiting the last couple of cycles has been poor other than the 2 transfers.
Mainly agree. I think Fore is going to be a good player, Friendshuh who knows, the guy had like 16 scholarship offers, so we can't consider him a reach. But that is 2 out 4 for that class. If we want to be a team that competes consistently for NCAA you need to bat a higher percentage that in my opinion. This is one of the reasons we have a 7 man rotation that past couple of years.
I find this a little surprising just because it looked like Smithen would compete for minutes next year and Diekvoss by all accounts could have filled a need for us - a shooter. But maybe the writing is on the wall they won't play or maybe they did not mesh with the coaching staff.
Nonetheless - it still doesn't change much in terms of minutes for next season because going on Mooney's history and what we have returning - I still don't expect any of the frosh to come in play a significant role next year.
We still have ShawnDre - who I think Mooney will lean on just like he did with Anderson, then Lindsay, and then Anthony. That seems to be Mooney's system right now - get a good, quick point guard and ride them as long as possible. I see ShawnDre going for 35 minutes a night next season.
Trey Davis - our do everything but offense guy. He plays 30 minutes a night already and gives us a little on offense and next year he will be a senior. I don't see much changing there - he will play 30 minutes a night next season too.
Cline - only played 23 minutes a game this season as at times he was a liability on defense and still getting used to the college game. Depending on his defensive improvement - I see him jumping up, but big guys don't typically play 30 minutes (Harper only got 31 his senior year) - but I do see his time increasing - probably around 25-26 minutes a night.
Allen - might be our best weapon next season. He got 31 minutes a night - see him getting the same if not more by a minute or two next year.
ANO - got 23 minutes a night and will be a senior next season. I think he stays about the same. He will be a key defensive player for us, but with all the players around him (Cline, Allen, Taylor, Wood) - just no room for him to go up.
Taylor - 23 minutes and he did very little with it. I could see some of his time being eaten up by Wood.
Josh Jones/Fore - all signs point to these two getting time now that Diekvoss and Smithen are gone. See then in a backup role that gets about 10-15 minutes. Maybe they both play, but in reality - I think by the middle of the season, one will be favored over the other.
I see the starting five as ShawnDre, Davis, Allen, Cline, and ANO. Then I see Wood getting good minutes - probably coming in for ANO. That gives us a solid offensive lineup (minus Davis). Some might think that is small - but really, you got Cline, Wood, and Allen all about 6-7 and 6-8, and in our matchup switching defense, that is perfect. Guys too big or too small get easily mismatched. Then look for Fore/Jones and Taylor to play supporting roles off the bench - giving us a rotation of about 8 guys.
Nonetheless - it still doesn't change much in terms of minutes for next season because going on Mooney's history and what we have returning - I still don't expect any of the frosh to come in play a significant role next year.
We still have ShawnDre - who I think Mooney will lean on just like he did with Anderson, then Lindsay, and then Anthony. That seems to be Mooney's system right now - get a good, quick point guard and ride them as long as possible. I see ShawnDre going for 35 minutes a night next season.
Trey Davis - our do everything but offense guy. He plays 30 minutes a night already and gives us a little on offense and next year he will be a senior. I don't see much changing there - he will play 30 minutes a night next season too.
Cline - only played 23 minutes a game this season as at times he was a liability on defense and still getting used to the college game. Depending on his defensive improvement - I see him jumping up, but big guys don't typically play 30 minutes (Harper only got 31 his senior year) - but I do see his time increasing - probably around 25-26 minutes a night.
Allen - might be our best weapon next season. He got 31 minutes a night - see him getting the same if not more by a minute or two next year.
ANO - got 23 minutes a night and will be a senior next season. I think he stays about the same. He will be a key defensive player for us, but with all the players around him (Cline, Allen, Taylor, Wood) - just no room for him to go up.
Taylor - 23 minutes and he did very little with it. I could see some of his time being eaten up by Wood.
Josh Jones/Fore - all signs point to these two getting time now that Diekvoss and Smithen are gone. See then in a backup role that gets about 10-15 minutes. Maybe they both play, but in reality - I think by the middle of the season, one will be favored over the other.
I see the starting five as ShawnDre, Davis, Allen, Cline, and ANO. Then I see Wood getting good minutes - probably coming in for ANO. That gives us a solid offensive lineup (minus Davis). Some might think that is small - but really, you got Cline, Wood, and Allen all about 6-7 and 6-8, and in our matchup switching defense, that is perfect. Guys too big or too small get easily mismatched. Then look for Fore/Jones and Taylor to play supporting roles off the bench - giving us a rotation of about 8 guys.
As mentioned in another thread this year best newcomers did not play. MW transfer and Fros walk on Joe. This two guys saw it tough in practice being the last subs to practice so realistic game playing time set in..Smitten got glimpses just because of Fore injury and pressure of fans to see fresh new meat. After dust settled so did the hype. Good luck to both players in future endeavors hope they search and choses the right fit this time alla your favorite cornhusker.
Now what we need...experienced player that can come in immediately or help after tj mw n sdj senior class leaves..that next year will IMO will be a down year need players for Fore to develop with. Also next year looks to be our strongest year with the bodies we have. Hope we manage the talents correctly. But we need a transfer ,2,3 and solid 5 in that order..we need shooter/scorers and a good schedule..
Now what we need...experienced player that can come in immediately or help after tj mw n sdj senior class leaves..that next year will IMO will be a down year need players for Fore to develop with. Also next year looks to be our strongest year with the bodies we have. Hope we manage the talents correctly. But we need a transfer ,2,3 and solid 5 in that order..we need shooter/scorers and a good schedule..
Ideally, if we are strictly looking at this for next year in a basketball sense, a strong shooter/scorer at the 2 or 3 that can step in right away would be ideal - so that would be a grad transfer. The problem is that type of transfer is in high demand, and many of these guys will look to a bigger name school to try to raise their profile. I do think the guard from VaTech is intriguing, though I don't know much about him. I really like what I saw from Josh Jones this year, but as noted I don't see Mooney cutting Trey's minutes, so I think it is important to have a shooter at the 2 or 3 next to him. I am a big fan of defense, but agree with the sentiment that we cannot have 2-3 guys on the floor that are not scorers. Julius coming in as a freshman, would not be impacted too greatly by a post grad transfer - unless of course he is good enough to start immediately - and that would be a good problem to have. Interesting thought about Joe Kirby from some posters. Maybe not your typical walk on?
+1. Both might have contributed but I suspect both saw 2-3 players in front of them and were looking at bench time for the most part. A lot of folks thought these guys were unheralded when we signed them, so complaining a second time now that they're leaving seems silly.
I like one transfer and one freshman as replacements.
We should recruit guys who are ready to play right away, and already better, than the players we have on the court? Sheer brilliance. Why can't CM see that?
I'm sure there are tons of such players, who are happy to come to UR instead of Kentucky, Ohio State, et al. The academics question must be such a vapid excuse. Surely, all of these primadonnas are anxious to set foot in a classroom, at an academically challenging university. And surely, they all recognize that a UR degree is so much more valuable than a degree at State U. which accepts most applicants.
I'm sure there are tons of such players, who are happy to come to UR instead of Kentucky, Ohio State, et al. The academics question must be such a vapid excuse. Surely, all of these primadonnas are anxious to set foot in a classroom, at an academically challenging university. And surely, they all recognize that a UR degree is so much more valuable than a degree at State U. which accepts most applicants.
TB, I think the point is that other schools in our league seem to to regularly attract and sign recruits who can come in and play as freshmen without being redshirted. And as we have seen here recently, the kids who redshirt with us as freshmen basically end up contributing nothing to the program, then transferring to worse schools and doing nothing there:
• Diekvoss, transferring, probably to a lower level school.
• Tim Singleton last year, transferred to Odessa Junior College, started 2 games this year and averaged 3 points a game.
• Luke Piotrowski, transferred to Eastern Illinois, started 0 games this year as a redshirt junior, averages 3 points a game.
Singleton and Piotrowski either were TERRIBLE misses for our program, or evidence that we failed in our attempts to sign guys we had targeted ahead of them.
I fear the same for Diekvoss, and unfortunately Friendshuh at this point. Hope I'm wrong since he is still with us.
• Diekvoss, transferring, probably to a lower level school.
• Tim Singleton last year, transferred to Odessa Junior College, started 2 games this year and averaged 3 points a game.
• Luke Piotrowski, transferred to Eastern Illinois, started 0 games this year as a redshirt junior, averages 3 points a game.
Singleton and Piotrowski either were TERRIBLE misses for our program, or evidence that we failed in our attempts to sign guys we had targeted ahead of them.
I fear the same for Diekvoss, and unfortunately Friendshuh at this point. Hope I'm wrong since he is still with us.
lol. do we need a sarcasm icon?
coach never tries to recruit guys not better than the guys on the roster. it seems like some of you think otherwise. which is crazy talk. some here need to take off the blue and red glasses and see UR and other schools like it through a recruits eyes.
we love UR. we want everyone to love it like we do. but it's not everyone's 1st choice.
I know you can make arguments but academically if you get accepted to the Ivy's and UR, the typical kid will take the Ivy's. it opens more doors. same with the high major hoops programs.
coach never tries to recruit guys not better than the guys on the roster. it seems like some of you think otherwise. which is crazy talk. some here need to take off the blue and red glasses and see UR and other schools like it through a recruits eyes.
we love UR. we want everyone to love it like we do. but it's not everyone's 1st choice.
I know you can make arguments but academically if you get accepted to the Ivy's and UR, the typical kid will take the Ivy's. it opens more doors. same with the high major hoops programs.
Updated Mooney Recruits list:
Mooney recruits
2005 Ryan Butler
2006
David Gonzalvez
David Brewster (Transferred to Towson)
Dan Geriot
Stephen Kendall (Transferred to JMU)Brian Morris (Transferred to Towson)
Kevin Hovde (walk-on)
2007
Kevin AndersonChris Richard (never played & transferred to Oregon St as as walk-on for 1 year)
Justin Harper
Conor Smith (Red Shirt)
Kevin Smith
2008Darrius Garrett
Josh Duinker
Francis-Cedric Martel
2009
Darien BrothersGreg Robbins
2010
Cedrick LindsayWayne Sparrow (Red Shirt & Transferred for 5thyear to UMBC where he was ineligible 2nd semester)
Derrick Williams (kicked off team senior year)
2011Kendall Anthony
Trey Davis (Red Shirt)
Alonzo Nelson-Ododa (Red Shirt)
Luke Piotrowski (Red Shirt & transferred to Eastern Illinois)
2012
Terry Allen
Deion Taylor
2013
TJ Cline (in as a transfer with 3 years remaining)
Josh Jones
ShawnDre' JonesTim Singleton (Transferred to Odessa Junior College)
2014Marshall Wood (in as a transfer with 2 years remaining)
Kadeem Smithen (Transfer to TBD)
Chandler Diekvoss (Red Shirt & Transfer to TBD)Khwan Fore (Medical Red shirt? Was he granted another year?)
Paul Friendshuh (Red Shirt)
2015Julius Johnson
This post was edited on 3/31 1:10 PM by ur2K
Mooney recruits
2005 Ryan Butler
2006
David Gonzalvez
David Brewster (Transferred to Towson)
Dan Geriot
Stephen Kendall (Transferred to JMU)Brian Morris (Transferred to Towson)
Kevin Hovde (walk-on)
2007
Kevin AndersonChris Richard (never played & transferred to Oregon St as as walk-on for 1 year)
Justin Harper
Conor Smith (Red Shirt)
Kevin Smith
2008Darrius Garrett
Josh Duinker
Francis-Cedric Martel
2009
Darien BrothersGreg Robbins
2010
Cedrick LindsayWayne Sparrow (Red Shirt & Transferred for 5thyear to UMBC where he was ineligible 2nd semester)
Derrick Williams (kicked off team senior year)
2011Kendall Anthony
Trey Davis (Red Shirt)
Alonzo Nelson-Ododa (Red Shirt)
Luke Piotrowski (Red Shirt & transferred to Eastern Illinois)
2012
Terry Allen
Deion Taylor
2013
TJ Cline (in as a transfer with 3 years remaining)
Josh Jones
ShawnDre' JonesTim Singleton (Transferred to Odessa Junior College)
2014Marshall Wood (in as a transfer with 2 years remaining)
Kadeem Smithen (Transfer to TBD)
Chandler Diekvoss (Red Shirt & Transfer to TBD)Khwan Fore (Medical Red shirt? Was he granted another year?)
Paul Friendshuh (Red Shirt)
2015Julius Johnson
This post was edited on 3/31 1:10 PM by ur2K
I think there must be some middle ground. The only way I see the freshmen as freshmen being better than the seniors
as seniors is if you have a majority of "one and done"s. That is not the path I want to take.
Having freshmen that are good enough to get double digit minutes per game is much more reasonable goal.
I was contemplating next year's minutes before this latest development and I had projected:
Shawdre, Terry, TJ at 28
Trey, Zo at 24
Taylor at 20
Josh, Marshall, Khwan at 12
Kadeem, Chandler at 6
Paul, Julius at 0
So I saw Marshall & Khwan adding to the 7 man rotation a bit more than Kadeem & Chandler.
This post was edited on 3/31 6:08 PM by urmite
Shawdre, Terry, TJ at 28
Trey, Zo at 24
Taylor at 20
Josh, Marshall, Khwan at 12
Kadeem, Chandler at 6
Paul, Julius at 0
So I saw Marshall & Khwan adding to the 7 man rotation a bit more than Kadeem & Chandler.
This post was edited on 3/31 6:08 PM by urmite
Assuming the transfers are for more playing time - so be it. Just add it to the growing list of college transfers that is borderline an epidemic as everyone and their mother looks for playing time. I think its just a product of the AAU system and these kids being told and they are great from day 1 and not having to work or practice to beat someone else out. In AAU - you don't like your playing time on one team - you don't stay and try to beat out the other kids, you either leave and join another team or simply create your own where you are the focal point.
Its a shame because although I did not think either one would have played major minutes at all next season, I think down the road - when they were juniors - the opportunity would be there for them. And it sounds like they could have helped us by all accounts. I don't read too much into us being a "reach" for them. We were also a "reach" for Ryan Butler and Kevin Anderson - they turned out pretty well too.
In terms of minutes though and next season - I just don't see any frosh getting minutes. Just look at what we have returning and Mooney's history in his 10 years at UR. 1) He always gives the benefit of the doubt to the upperclassmen - especially seniors. He will repeatedly give them a chance to win playing time over the younger guys. 2) Since his time began here and because of the success of Kevin Anderson - his offense has evolved to center around the guard position with many ball screens to help that guard create and make things happen. It started with Kevin Anderson, then Lindsay, then Anthony, and now ShawnDre. Expect ShawnDre to play 35 minutes a night for the next 2 years. 3) We say ever year - this will be a deep team. We have depth. Blah Blah Blah. Mooney plays 7-8 guy rotations. NCAA Sweet 16 year - 8 man rotation of Anderson, Harper, Smith, Geriot, Brothers, Martel, Lindsay, and Garrett. (only 1 frosh in that bunch with Lindsay at 16 minutes) Year before that - 8 man - Anderson, Gonzo, Butler, Harper, Geriot, Smith, Garrett, Martel. (no frosh there).
If you want to talk depth - then Mooney has to setup a meeting with old Wainwright. His 2004 NCAA team went 9 deep and almost 10 really if you count Eric Zwayer who looking back through old stats played 15 minutes, but limited to 25 games with back injury.
So hopefully the incoming frosh don't have high expectations because in all reality - they will either redshirt, or see very limited 10 minutes or less time that first year.
Its a shame because although I did not think either one would have played major minutes at all next season, I think down the road - when they were juniors - the opportunity would be there for them. And it sounds like they could have helped us by all accounts. I don't read too much into us being a "reach" for them. We were also a "reach" for Ryan Butler and Kevin Anderson - they turned out pretty well too.
In terms of minutes though and next season - I just don't see any frosh getting minutes. Just look at what we have returning and Mooney's history in his 10 years at UR. 1) He always gives the benefit of the doubt to the upperclassmen - especially seniors. He will repeatedly give them a chance to win playing time over the younger guys. 2) Since his time began here and because of the success of Kevin Anderson - his offense has evolved to center around the guard position with many ball screens to help that guard create and make things happen. It started with Kevin Anderson, then Lindsay, then Anthony, and now ShawnDre. Expect ShawnDre to play 35 minutes a night for the next 2 years. 3) We say ever year - this will be a deep team. We have depth. Blah Blah Blah. Mooney plays 7-8 guy rotations. NCAA Sweet 16 year - 8 man rotation of Anderson, Harper, Smith, Geriot, Brothers, Martel, Lindsay, and Garrett. (only 1 frosh in that bunch with Lindsay at 16 minutes) Year before that - 8 man - Anderson, Gonzo, Butler, Harper, Geriot, Smith, Garrett, Martel. (no frosh there).
If you want to talk depth - then Mooney has to setup a meeting with old Wainwright. His 2004 NCAA team went 9 deep and almost 10 really if you count Eric Zwayer who looking back through old stats played 15 minutes, but limited to 25 games with back injury.
So hopefully the incoming frosh don't have high expectations because in all reality - they will either redshirt, or see very limited 10 minutes or less time that first year.
The only thing I would say is that Mooney does have a history of playing guards as freshmen. Gonzo, KA, K0, Ced. Maybe Johnson is the next in line?
This post was edited on 3/31 4:53 PM by Eight Legger
This post was edited on 3/31 4:53 PM by Eight Legger
Gonzo and KA played because the cupboard was bare.
Lindsay played as a frosh - got about 16 minutes a night.
Anthony played 25 minutes, but that was a big rebuilding year for us losing everyone from our back to back NCAA teams.
Really - the only time he did it and we had a good team - Lindsay. So 3 out of 4 years, the teams were not very good. 1 time - we had an NCAA team. Maybe next year would be the same, but like I said - if I am a frosh and I see Davis and ShawnDre ahead of me - along with Fore and Josh Jones - I don't see much time available.
Lindsay played as a frosh - got about 16 minutes a night.
Anthony played 25 minutes, but that was a big rebuilding year for us losing everyone from our back to back NCAA teams.
Really - the only time he did it and we had a good team - Lindsay. So 3 out of 4 years, the teams were not very good. 1 time - we had an NCAA team. Maybe next year would be the same, but like I said - if I am a frosh and I see Davis and ShawnDre ahead of me - along with Fore and Josh Jones - I don't see much time available.
Mooney has a history of giving different amounts of playing time to different people in different situations. Ced got plenty of playing time as a freshman on a loaded team. K0 and KA got plenty of playing time on not-so-loaded teams. Our current junior class played tons of minutes as freshman.
In 2012, K0, Ced and DWill (freshman and sophomores) played as much or more than Duinker, Martel and Garret (seniors). Mooney has not always deferred to upperclassmen, he has played the players he thinks give us the best chance to win.
Next year he will play the players he thinks give us the best chance to win.
In 2012, K0, Ced and DWill (freshman and sophomores) played as much or more than Duinker, Martel and Garret (seniors). Mooney has not always deferred to upperclassmen, he has played the players he thinks give us the best chance to win.
Next year he will play the players he thinks give us the best chance to win.
One reason I suspect coaches encouraged Chandler to transfer, is that his decision makes little sense, otherwise. It may well be that his chances of gaining significant minutes next season are low. On the other hand, 4 frontcourt players graduate, so the chances of playing time get much better for the following 3 seasons. On the other hand, if he transfers, he has to sit out a year, and he has the same 3 years eligibility remaining. Perhaps, he could look at JUCO route, play a year there, and then transfer and have same 3 years eligibility. But JUCO will not be same experience or education as remaining at UR.
In Smithen's case, it's a shame, he lost a year of eligibility, given how little he played. I believe he will fit in nicely with another program. I know it will be tough to sit out a year, after playing very little this year, but he still has 3 years, to show that he's a very good player.
In Smithen's case, it's a shame, he lost a year of eligibility, given how little he played. I believe he will fit in nicely with another program. I know it will be tough to sit out a year, after playing very little this year, but he still has 3 years, to show that he's a very good player.
Why can't it simply be that Diekvoss realized he wasn't good enough to get more than mop up minutes at this level and didn't want to ride the bench for 4 more years. Maybe he would rather go low D1 or D2 to play regularly and feel like he is making a contribution?
What is clear is that Mooney needs to recruit better. It never seems that we get the guy who we are praying for, an I don't expect we should most of the time. But when was the last time a four star player even considered us? Andrew White is the best player to give us a chance, but we all know how that went. Once in awhile you have to win one, and yet it seems that we struggle to even get 3 star players for a winning team in a good conference. He needs a strong recruiter on his coaching staff, but I don't see one.
Lewis is a very good recruiter. He works the south. Diekvoss and Smithen aren't from the south. You connect the dots.
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