Rotation 2021-2

[spiderman]

I think we'll be a little better rebounding. even with knee surgeries, Sherod is a significantly better rebounder than Francis. Grant and Cayo should have their best rebounding years. and Burton is Burton.

we'll have to see about the defense but yeah, it's a concern. Cayo's help defense problems are fixable. Burton is sometimes amazing with his feet, but there's no reason he can't consistently be a plus perimeter defender. Jake too. I think Grant's man defense is solid. it's his help that can be a problem. a lot of that could go away if Cayo, Burton and Gilyard reduce the amount of penetration. Nick ... he was good in the old zone. man isn't ideal for him. but he's a smart defender.

still, our strength as usual is in our offense.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I think we'll be a little better rebounding. even with knee surgeries, Sherod is a significantly better rebounder than Francis. Grant and Cayo should have their best rebounding years. and Burton is Burton.

we'll have to see about the defense but yeah, it's a concern. Cayo's help defense problems are fixable. Burton is sometimes amazing with his feet, but there's no reason he can't consistently be a plus perimeter defender. Jake too. I think Grant's man defense is solid. it's his help that can be a problem. a lot of that could go away if Cayo, Burton and Gilyard reduce the amount of penetration. Nick ... he was good in the old zone. man isn't ideal for him. but he's a smart defender.

still, our strength as usual is in our offense.

I think you nailed it with “IF” Cayo, Burton, and Gilly reduce penetration. I think Cayo and Gilly are pretty solid but Burton who has the tools but he has to have the “want to” with his defense. He gets caught standing up a lot and doesn’t stay low..imo. I think Zay and Dji can help defensively too. I worry about lateral movement with Connor just bc of the surgeries. Can’t really count on Gus right now. We have to be better defensively this year too, no question.

 

[spider23]

Some good points here. I like what I saw defensively from Dji and Wilson.

Cayo, Gilly and Burton have been around for awhile now - and b/c either A) Mooney does not make/teach them to stay in front of their man or B) lack of positional competition does not inspire them to do so - they are not great at stopping penetration. No rim protector. This makes it hard to hang our hat on defense.

Gilly - I will cut slack - going to be all time steals leader. Earlier in his career I did think at times the steals were detrimental to team defense - but now he is good at both and teammates are aware and looking to help if he goes for a steal. Problem is when 2-3 guys are not adept at keeping man in front, it becomes an issue.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

I think you nailed it with “IF” Cayo, Burton, and Gilly reduce penetration. I think Cayo and Gilly are pretty solid but Burton who has the tools but he has to have the “want to” with his defense. He gets caught standing up a lot and doesn’t stay low..imo. I think Zay and Dji can help defensively too. I worry about lateral movement with Connor just bc of the surgeries. Can’t really count on Gus right now. We have to be better defensively this year too, no question.

But Burton gets one highlight block for every 10 times he lets the player he is defending go right by him and lay it in…

 

[Long Island Spiders]

I think you nailed it with “IF” Cayo, Burton, and Gilly reduce penetration. I think Cayo and Gilly are pretty solid but Burton who has the tools but he has to have the “want to” with his defense. He gets caught standing up a lot and doesn’t stay low..imo. I think Zay and Dji can help defensively too. I worry about lateral movement with Connor just bc of the surgeries. Can’t really count on Gus right now. We have to be better defensively this year too, no question.

SpiderDad and others… why aren’t Burton and Gilyard better at penetration defense? They are quick and work as hard and are as athletic as anybody on the team, but feels like they are constantly beat off the dribble. You’re never going to stop players attempting 3s over Gilyard, but I can’t understand why it seems our guys are always beat off the dribble.

Need some quality minutes from the Goose as well!

 

[8legs1dream]

SpiderDad and others… why aren’t Burton and Gilyard better at penetration defense? They are quick and work as hard and are as athletic as anybody on the team, but feels like they are constantly beat off the dribble. You’re never going to stop players attempting 3s over Gilyard, but I can’t understand why it seems our guys are always beat off the dribble.

Need some quality minutes from the Goose as well!

The Goose is injured. I don't think anyone knows when we should expect him back.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

The Goose is injured. I don't think anyone knows when we should expect him back.

I read the article in the Times Dispatch, and took it as an encouraging update.

 

[GKiller]

I read the article in the Times Dispatch, and took it as an encouraging update.

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Is that Goose on the baseline next to Noyes? If so that would be really encouraging. I doubt it is but looks like him. Hard to make out. My guess is Weaver the walk on frosh mainly bc Goose wasn't expected to be back that soon.

 

[97spiderfan]

We should be pretty darn good offensively and really capable of spreading the floor, but man are we going to be an adventure on defense. In my view, we don't have even one guy who is an average ON-BALL defender. Jacob is a great off ball guy, but he is average at best as an on ball guy and drops below average when he gets posted up etc. The rest are simply not good at keeping their man in front of them and dribble penetration is going to be an even bigger problem than it has been because Blake was an above average on ball guy.

I think we are going to need to come up with some sort of gadget type thing or simply play packline (which will help everyone but hurt Jacobs steals). but we are going to have to be really good offensively to offset our combined defense and rebounding (I dont have to explain how bad we will be at rebounding do I?) . Pretty confident about our offense, but they are going to have to be REALLY good!

Spot on. Why I like Dji to see significant minutes. I really liked his defense in his limited time. He's got great instincts, coupled with his long arms. Reminds me a bit of Ryan Butler, very crafty.

FWIW, I think Cayo is a pretty decent defender.

 

[97spiderfan]

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Is that Goose on the baseline next to Noyes? If so that would be really encouraging. I doubt it is but looks like him. Hard to make out. My guess is Weaver the walk on frosh mainly bc Goose wasn't expected to be back that soon.

I can't tell but Burton is like a hot knife through butter in that clip.

 

[spiderman]

that's not Dji getting put on the poster, is it? whoever it was, he's beaten badly. that's what we don't want to see. can't see the curl but I don't think there's a screen there. and he fouled Burton too.

if Tyler gets his 3 back up to around 40%, all he needs to do is sure up his defense and he's an NBA player. I don't think I've said that about any Spider since Newman. he's got the body and the athleticism and the form.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

SpiderDad and others… why aren’t Burton and Gilyard better at penetration defense? They are quick and work as hard and are as athletic as anybody on the team, but feels like they are constantly beat off the dribble. You’re never going to stop players attempting 3s over Gilyard, but I can’t understand why it seems our guys are always beat off the dribble.

Need some quality minutes from the Goose as well!

I think SpiderDad got the first part of it--it is simply "wanting to" every single time down the floor. You can't take possessions, or even parts of possessions off.

I think the second part of it is that players have to be held accountable for failing to do so. The "want to" would certainly be there if playing time were dependent upon it. It hasn't happened in 14 years, and I don't have a lot of faith that this will miraculously change this year. While I am not as down on Mooney as others on here, I do think one of his big drawbacks is that he fails to hold people accountable for lack of rebounding or bad defensive fundamentals or effort.

We are deep enough this year to be able to hold people accountable rebounding and defensive wise without suffering for it offensively. If, just for example, Burton keeps getting burned defensively, we have people who can play that position that can do a good defensive job. I'm picturing the same quick hook that he has for freshman/sophs who commit a turnover on offense--do that for crap defense. But I don't think Mooney would or will bench any of Gilyard, Burton, Cayo, or Golden for bad defense. Which is too bad, because I think if that happened in November/December, we'll be f-ing great in March.

 

[GKiller]

that's not Dji getting put on the poster, is it? whoever it was, he's beaten badly. that's what we don't want to see. can't see the curl but I don't think there's a screen there. and he fouled Burton too.

yes that’s Dji. Burton is a tough guard. He will beat ppl & finish. But that’s 1 clip it’s kinda PR’s job to put some highlight plays out there to build excitement. They r not going to tweet a good close out where you keep defender in front of u. Presumably there would be some of those too. Tho with our D issues maybe they should.

 

[SpiderDad75]

that's not Dji getting put on the poster, is it? whoever it was, he's beaten badly. that's what we don't want to see. can't see the curl but I don't think there's a screen there. and he fouled Burton too.

if Tyler gets his 3 back up to around 40%, all he needs to do is sure up his defense and he's an NBA player. I don't think I've said that about any Spider since Newman. he's got the body and the athleticism and the form.

It’s Dji 😬

 

[spiderman]

It’s Dji 😬

lol. it's happens, Dad!
wasn't sure ... he looks bigger. still 6'5"?

 

[SpiderDad75]

SpiderDad and others… why aren’t Burton and Gilyard better at penetration defense? They are quick and work as hard and are as athletic as anybody on the team, but feels like they are constantly beat off the dribble. You’re never going to stop players attempting 3s over Gilyard, but I can’t understand why it seems our guys are always beat off the dribble.

Need some quality minutes from the Goose as well!

For me it’s just a want to issue. Burton is athletic and has decent lateral quickness but not always the desire or that’s kinda how I see it, doesn’t mean I’m right. He’s not low enough in his stance and will as would anyone who doesn’t get low get beat off the dribble. This also has led to our bigs getting in foul trouble bc the help is late….which is not always the guards up top fault.

 

[spiderman]

any defensive experts here? should Jacob have slid all the way over to stop the drive? that would leave his man open from 3, but maybe we could rotate?

(might not be Jacob ... my feed is so fuzzy).

 

[SpiderDad75]

lol. it's happens, Dad!
wasn't sure ... he looks bigger. still 6'5"?

Yeah it does 😄 I’d say he’s 6’6 and he told me that’s what they measured him at but not sure why they still have him 6’5. But it’s all good. He’s gotten a little bigger. Been working on his strength for his upper body this summer.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

I think SpiderDad got the first part of it--it is simply "wanting to" every single time down the floor. You can't take possessions, or even parts of possessions off.

I think the second part of it is that players have to be held accountable for failing to do so. The "want to" would certainly be there if playing time were dependent upon it. It hasn't happened in 14 years, and I don't have a lot of faith that this will miraculously change this year. While I am not as down on Mooney as others on here, I do think one of his big drawbacks is that he fails to hold people accountable for lack of rebounding or bad defensive fundamentals or effort.

We are deep enough this year to be able to hold people accountable rebounding and defensive wise without suffering for it offensively. If, just for example, Burton keeps getting burned defensively, we have people who can play that position that can do a good defensive job. I'm picturing the same quick hook that he has for freshman/sophs who commit a turnover on offense--do that for crap defense. But I don't think Mooney would or will bench any of Gilyard, Burton, Cayo, or Golden for bad defense. Which is too bad, because I think if that happened in November/December, we'll be f-ing great in March.

Great post thank you. I didn’t name Golden’s defensive challenges as Matt Grace makes Grant look like Denis Rodman comparably.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

For me it’s just a want to issue. Burton is athletic and has decent lateral quickness but not always the desire or that’s kinda how I see it, doesn’t mean I’m right. He’s not low enough in his stance and will as would anyone who doesn’t get low get beat off the dribble. This also has led to our bigs getting in foul trouble bc the help is late….which is not always the guards up top fault.

In other words… “chicks dig the long ball”

 

[PhillySpider]

I think the second part of it is that players have to be held accountable for failing to do so. The "want to" would certainly be there if playing time were dependent upon it. It hasn't happened in 14 years, and I don't have a lot of faith that this will miraculously change this year. While I am not as down on Mooney as others on here, I do think one of his big drawbacks is that he fails to hold people accountable for lack of rebounding or bad defensive fundamentals or effort.

This focuses in on my number one complaint about Mooney. Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about our program is based on how well you fit in his almighty offense. Recruiting, playing time, accountability etc. The toughest of these to take for me is the accountability. We see young guys pulled all the time for messing up his offense, but, as pointed out, never see a guy who is good in the offense held in any way accountable for his bad defense or rebounding. We also don't see guys really earn playing time because of their defense. And I would feel better about this is it was all about getting playmakers out there on offense. But far too often he just values guys who know and run the offense really well and don't make mistakes, even if they don't actually do much. The prototype here was Deion Taylor, but even today, Grace fits this bill to a T. There is no way Sal shouldn't have all those minutes, but he makes mistakes on offense which is the unpardonable sin, no matter what else you might bring!

We were terrible on defense for a bunch of years until two years ago and then we were better for a year, before we fell back again last year. I think its no coincidence that we were good in the year where we put in a new defense and as a result, had to really emphasize it in the offseason and Moon actually talked about defense in the offseason (the only time I can recall). And rebounding I won't even talk about. He doesn't care about it and makes no bones about it and you get what you get when you put no emphasis on it and for us thats a ranking between 314th in the country and 343rd (out of around 350 or so) in the country in 4 of the last 5 years (and the 314 would be lower except about 20 teams sat out that year for covid!). I do note that we made it all the way up to 207th the other year - - - not so coincidently the same year we emphasized and were better on defense.

"You are what you emphasize" is a coaches saying and we are the living breathing proof of that - - - offense above all to the extreme!

 

[Long Island Spiders]

This focuses in on my number one complaint about Mooney. Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) about our program is based on how well you fit in his almighty offense. Recruiting, playing time, accountability etc. The toughest of these to take for me is the accountability. We see young guys pulled all the time for messing up his offense, but, as pointed out, never see a guy who is good in the offense held in any way accountable for his bad defense or rebounding. We also don't see guys really earn playing time because of their defense. And I would feel better about this is it was all about getting playmakers out there on offense. But far too often he just values guys who know and run the offense really well and don't make mistakes, even if they don't actually do much. The prototype here was Deion Taylor, but even today, Grace fits this bill to a T. There is no way Sal shouldn't have all those minutes, but he makes mistakes on offense which is the unpardonable sin, no matter what else you might bring!

We were terrible on defense for a bunch of years until two years ago and then we were better for a year, before we fell back again last year. I think its no coincidence that we were good in the year where we put in a new defense and as a result, had to really emphasize it in the offseason and Moon actually talked about defense in the offseason (the only time I can recall). And rebounding I won't even talk about. He doesn't care about it and makes no bones about it and you get what you get when you put no emphasis on it and for us thats a ranking between 314th in the country and 343rd (out of around 350 or so) in the country in 4 of the last 5 years (and the 314 would be lower except about 20 teams sat out that year for covid!). I do note that we made it all the way up to 207th the other year - - - not so coincidently the same year we emphasized and were better on defense.

"You are what you emphasize" is a coaches saying and we are the living breathing proof of that - - - offense above all to the extreme!

Interesting. I’ve always blamed our rebounding issues on lack of size and athleticism, though that’s likely as a result of us emphasizing a certain type of offensive player.

Let’s bring back the zone once Jacob gets his steal record.

 

[spiderman]

There is no way Sal shouldn't have all those minutes, but he makes mistakes on offense which is the unpardonable sin, no matter what else you might bring!

I don't have a dog in that hunt, but I don't know what you're watching to see some wide gap in Sal's advantage vs Matt.

to me they give about the same overall production (in different ways) and they play comparable minutes. Matt handles the high post 5 spot better offensively. Sal's more of a 4 like a Cayo. Sal's feet are better defensively but he's no Mutumbo either.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Sal fouls A LOT.

 

[gcarter52]

I remember a guy who I believed played for Wisconsin, wasn’t much until his late junior and blew up him senior year. He became a first round NBA center in the league. Not saying he is on the same plane but please don’t sell him short too early. Do you all remember Frank Kaminsky?

 

[SFspidur]

Sherod has been fully cleared.

 

[spiderman]

I remember a guy who I believed played for Wisconsin, wasn’t much until his late junior and blew up him senior year. He became a first round NBA center in the league. Not saying he is on the same plane but please don’t sell him short too early. Do you all remember Frank Kaminsky?

I like where your head is at, but it's a stretch to compare Matt to a Big 10 recruit and former NCAA College Player of the Year!
they are both white, tall and can shoot it pretty well. Frank had a much better game off the bounce attacking the basket, though.

 

[gcarter52]

I remember a guy who I believed played for Wisconsin, wasn’t much until his late junior and blew up him senior year. He became a first round NBA center in the league. Not saying he is on the same plane but please don’t sell him short too early. Do you all remember Frank Kaminsky?

I like where your head is at, but it's a stretch to compare Matt to a Big 10 recruit and former NCAA College Player of the Year!
they are both white, tall and can shoot it pretty well. Frank had a much better game off the bounce attacking the basket, though.

You are correct on all accounts but he still wasn’t that highly regarded when he arrived as a freshman. I’m trusting in the heart of a man. I remember a guy name David Robinson. As a sophomore or junior we never expected him to be player of the year either. We are in for a great season!

 

[Long Island Spiders]

Sherod has been fully cleared.

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I’m so happy with the idea of replacing 10 of Francis’ shots per game with Sherod. Let’s go!!

 

[SFspidur]

New practice highlight vid. Certainly does look like Goose there standing on the baseline next to Noyes at times.

 

[GKiller]

New practice highlight vid. Certainly does look like Goose there standing on the baseline next to Noyes at times.

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Yeah got to be Goose. Hopefully progressing well. I know we don’t see him moving around but he’s out there doing something active.

 

[GKiller]

Randolph looks a little bigger than I thought

 

[Eight Legger]

Everyone should be able to play hard on defense this year, because we will have about 600 fouls to give each game.

 

[gcarter52]

We need to hear from serious Spider fans.

 

[97spiderfan]

Randolph looks a little bigger than I thought

He has an intimidating look to him. I like it.

 

[97spiderfan]

I don't have a dog in that hunt, but I don't know what you're watching to see some wide gap in Sal's advantage vs Matt.

to me they give about the same overall production (in different ways) and they play comparable minutes. Matt handles the high post 5 spot better offensively. Sal's more of a 4 like a Cayo. Sal's feet are better defensively but he's no Mutumbo either.

Agreed. I've given Grace a ton of grief. But he has worked really hard to improve his game. The latter half of last year, he really came into this own. Prior to that, he would get pushed around on defense far too much and literally only looked to pass on offense, unless he was lobbing up a 3 ball. But he obviously has improved his strength and I credit Gilly in getting him some good looks and his offensive confidence began to grow.

Sal is a much better rim protector/interior defender than Grace, his offense comes primarily from stickbacks/tip ins.

I think the combo of Sal/Grace really give us a lot of flexibility in our bigs. ,

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Agreed. I've given Grace a ton of grief. But he has worked really hard to improve his game. The latter half of last year, he really came into this own. Prior to that, he would get pushed around on defense far too much and literally only looked to pass on offense, unless he was lobbing up a 3 ball. But he obviously has improved his strength and I credit Gilly in getting him some good looks and his offensive confidence began to grow.

Sal is a much better rim protector/interior defender than Grace, his offense comes primarily from stickbacks/tip ins.

I think the combo of Sal/Grace really give us a lot of flexibility in our bigs. ,

I certainly was impressed with how Sal and Grace played in the NIT. Those two play with same level of intensity this season, we will be scary deep.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

I certainly was impressed with how Sal and Grace played in the NIT. Those two play with same level of intensity this season, we will be scary deep.

Agreed. I think the reasons are obvious why Grace is the one that first replaces Golden in the rotation.

I think the bigger question is whether Golden will play more minutes and/or get away from mandatory breaks this season. He looks really slimmed down and athletic in his offseason videos so perhaps he can get more than his 30 minute average.

 

[97spiderfan]

I honestly don't want Golden playing any more minutes, unless he decides to play defense this year. I'd love for Mooney to tell him, I want you to play as hard as possible on both ends of the floor because we have depth at your position and don't worry about foul trouble, we have good depth, so just play out there.

I haven't figured out if Grant's unwillingness to play solid defense is just him or if Mooney is instructing him to protect him from fouls, probably a bit of both. Which is why it would be great if Mooney saw our depth and coached Grant up to play better defense.

 

[Long Island Spiders]

I honestly don't want Golden playing any more minutes, unless he decides to play defense this year. I'd love for Mooney to tell him, I want you to play as hard as possible on both ends of the floor because we have depth at your position and don't worry about foul trouble, we have good depth, so just play out there.

I haven't figured out if Grant's unwillingness to play solid defense is just him or if Mooney is instructing him to protect him from fouls, probably a bit of both. Which is why it would be great if Mooney saw our depth and coached Grant up to play better defense.

I’m not surprised about the Mooney hate by some on this board but come on Grant is our best player and we need him to have any chance for a deep March run.

I wonder — and I’m looking at you SF and Spiderman — what the +/- in points is the last two seasons when grant is on the floor versus not. I personally am always holding by breath when he’s out as I see both a drop off in our offense AND defense. We are definitely a better team when Grant is playing — it’s a pretty simple formula.