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Rocco mentioned in connection with UD job

iSpider said:
This and more.
Do we furnish the stipend for spending money allowed by the NCAA? Is this an issue with being in the CAA or just a school issue? Doesn't JMU provide its football players with such a stipend?
I am sure that there are other issues which need to be addressed as well to keep us a the most competitive advantage available.
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You are right, we do not furnish the stipend in football, only in basketball. I was not aware that JMU provided it. Last I heard was over a year ago and at that time the CAA members as a whole decided not to furnish it for football.
Also someone mentioned the Bridge Program. The Bridge Program IS paid for for incoming Student Athletes at Richmond but Summer School is not, Every year 3-5 incoming freshman football players place out of the Bridge Program, so if they want to show up on campus for summer workouts before August camp, they have to live close by or pay for Summer School.
 
WolfSpider said:
You are right, we do not furnish the stipend in football, only in basketball. I was not aware that JMU provided it. Last I heard was over a year ago and at that time the CAA members as a whole decided not to furnish it for football.
Also someone mentioned the Bridge Program. The Bridge Program IS paid for for incoming Student Athletes at Richmond but Summer School is not, Every year 3-5 incoming freshman football players place out of the Bridge Program, so if they want to show up on campus for summer workouts before August camp, they have to live close by or pay for Summer School.
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So basically if a recruit doesn't qualify for the bridge program because their academics (GPA & SAT) are up to par, they must pay to be involved in the summer. Aren't these the student athletes we want? All the incoming players should be able to participate and the University should pay for it.
 
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PhillySpider said:
I do not think that he engineered it all. I do think its played out that way. Here is my opinion and how I come to it. This is a story -- - plenty will disagree that this is what happened. It will be long - - - you are obviously free to not give a rats about what I heard or think and skip the whole thing!
...
Admin comes back and does some cherry picking of their own, pointing to schools 1,2 and 3 that don't have this and schools 4 and 5 that don't have that and implying - - you don't need any of that stuff to be successful. They too probably thought they were negotiating and didn't intend to give nothing. The debate to this point was about "what does a Top level FSC team really need " not whether UR would commit to do whatever that was.

At that point, had it stopped there I think things would have been fine eventually as there was plenty of middle ground. Several things then seemingly happened that got the train off the tracks. Admin cited that one thing we did have already was a really high head coach's salary. How this was said and what was implied etc. is highly unclear, but Danny took a little (and maybe more) umbrage - - feeling his performance had earned that and it shouldn't be used against him. The next thing that happened is where things crash and burn. Someone tells Danny or Danny thinks he hears that it really doesn't matter what other Top level FSC programs have because UR doesn't have the money to do any of those things. This starts the Vision/commitment concerns. But also pisses Danny off because its clear (to him) we can afford it if we want to. He raises the commitment concern - - hey are we really committed to top flight FSC football. The admin says of course we are - - just keep doing what you are doing, its great. Danny thinks (and says) that's not so easy as you think - - are you really not committed to doing what it takes. A little bit of a pissing match ensues Admin - - Yes we are. Danny - - no your not!

Danny sort of doubles down, pushing his concerns and also citing what he believes are commitments already made and not delivered and strongly stating his long term concern over vision and commitment. Admin is now getting annoyed but still clearly wants to keep him. Danny refuses contract talks that don't also include resolution of other issues. Admin starting to get very annoyed and feeling like Danny is overstepping his bounds. Large ego's (on both sides) are now implicated because its shaping up as a winner/loser. Admin again says we can't afford it. Danny says - - so you aren't committed to Top Level FSC. Admin doesn't like Danny characterization of that and a number of things at this point. Danny is now fully concerned and pissed off. Admin expressed lack of money concern leads to comments from Danny about how come we can't afford any of this football stuff but Lax gets whatever they want! He cites that Lax has clear vision - - Top level program that competes for NCAA championship and they get whatever they need in pursuit of that. Lax benefactors are immediately inflamed. I will guess for multiple reasons - - - (1) hey just leave us out of your problems; (2) they didn't like being the villains before and sure don't want to be portrayed that way again and (3) if there are money concerns, they don't want to be losing anything they could or might get to football - - i.e. they don't want to be competing with football for resources. Admin is also inflamed that football coach is overstepping bounds and bringing up sore subject.

At some point both parties say - - you know there are other fish in the sea. who says it first, who the hell knows, but everyone is pissed off. Lax guy who hadn't been too involved now "advises" admin they need to get a hold of this situation and that they should call Danny's bluff (and put him in his place in some versions of the story) with a take it or leave it big contract offer but denial of most other things. His motivations for recommendation not entirely clear but LAX best interests almost certainly part of it - - to some no matter what the cost to other programs. That path is followed. Danny not bluffing (and not interested perhaps in being put in his place wherever that is) and flat out refuses the deal.

Some believe Danny is still negotiating. I do not. Some believe there are forces at work on UR side to save the day. I do not.

To specifically address the notion that Queally orchestrated this - - here is my view. He was a late entry to the dance. A lot of ground had been covered (or lost) before he got directly involved. He didn't even interject himself. Danny mentioned LAX - - no doubt because LAX's treatment is something which in fact really sticks in his craw. That brought Lax man in. Once he is in - - he is in charge because that's how he wants it. So from that point forward he's calling the shots and he's pissed off about the negative connotations around Lax (and maybe other things). This might very well (probably even by the sounds of things) have ended up here without his direct involvement at all however, because things hadn't gone very well up this point and everyone was already pissed off at one another.

Now, he's a smart guy and one who knows how to play the back room and board politics really well. I also believe he certainly is a strong UR supporter beyond the lax program as well. If he sees this now as a disaster about to happen (for both the school and/or football and/or himself and/or Lax) , it is very possible he changes his course and I hope that happens. He may have thought the course of action he advised was the wisest way to get past this with the least damage especially if Danny had accepted (as Q might have really believed he would) but now sees we are instead headed toward the iceberg and is working furiously to turn the ship before the crash.

As a last comment for what its worth, I do hear that UR may not have given up as much as many on this board (including me) have.
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Excellent post. Just a few questions to help me understand.

1. How high up the pecking order are the people at UR and the person at Delaware that are providing you this information? Do they base their conclusions on discussions with the coaches or administrators or are they just reporting what they have heard, and if upon what they have heard, who have they heard if from?

2. Who, or at what level, is the representative of the Administration who is speaking/negotiating and which body (Pres., BOT, Donors) does he represent?

3 Why in the world is lax even a party to this discussion? We couldn't be doing but so much for that program. It seems to me that lax should be in a different world. First, it is a new sport and needs help not otherwise required by established sports, and secondly, it is not a revenue sport. Though I love the sport and have attended several games, the attendance at lacrosse is meager at best. Unless and until we reach the UVa, Duke, UNC, Syracuse level, things are likely to remain that way as they are at most other schools who do not contend for the national championship. The discussion or interplay of lax with respect to the football situation seems anomalous at best, though I know that there remain many unhappy track or soccer fans who cannot get over the change and seem to do everything within their power to belittle lacrosse and Paul Queally, who they continue to blame despite his overall support for other sports and other programs at UR. Is this truly an issue and who or at what level is the lax representative involved? Is it the coach?

4. You seem to end on a positive note suggesting that this thing may be resolved with us satisfying DR. Why do you come to this conclusion? Are you just being a hopeful fan or is there a suggestion by someone in the know that leads you to conclude that we might work this out?
 
4EVRFB said:
So basically if a recruit doesn't qualify for the bridge program because their academics (GPA & SAT) are up to par, they must pay to be involved in the summer. Aren't these the student athletes we want? All the incoming players should be able to participate and the University should pay for it.
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You are correct. The best students are, in a sense, penalized for being good students.
 
Eight Legger said:
Thanks Philly, interesting timeline. So you are saying the fact that Rocco lost his backup QB for a couple games wasn't the reason for all this?
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I certainly think it came at a bad time when the sides were already at odds. Unclear how coincidental that is/was!
 
What's LAX average attendance? Just curious? Ticket Revenue? TV viewing audience for UR? Not that it really matters considering the powers that can/will bankroll the program behind the scenes.
 
To say that our athletic programs lose money, is equivalent to saying that the Fed will
pay down the national debt. There are many Big 5 schools that lose money every year.

I want to believe that Rocco wants a long term contract so that he can be the Jimmye Laycock
of the Univ. of Richmond.
 
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Philly - admire your dedication to UR by taking your time to make a very lengthy post which may well be very accurate. Makes sense to me.
 
iSpider said:
Excellent post. Just a few questions to help me understand.

1. How high up the pecking order are the people at UR and the person at Delaware that are providing you this information? Do they base their conclusions on discussions with the coaches or administrators or are they just reporting what they have heard, and if upon what they have heard, who have they heard if from?

2. Who, or at what level, is the representative of the Administration who is speaking/negotiating and which body (Pres., BOT, Donors) does he represent?

3 Why in the world is lax even a party to this discussion? We couldn't be doing but so much for that program. It seems to me that lax should be in a different world. First, it is a new sport and needs help not otherwise required by established sports, and secondly, it is not a revenue sport. Though I love the sport and have attended several games, the attendance at lacrosse is meager at best. Unless and until we reach the UVa, Duke, UNC, Syracuse level, things are likely to remain that way as they are at most other schools who do not contend for the national championship. The discussion or interplay of lax with respect to the football situation seems anomalous at best, though I know that there remain many unhappy track or soccer fans who cannot get over the change and seem to do everything within their power to belittle lacrosse and Paul Queally, who they continue to blame despite his overall support for other sports and other programs at UR. Is this truly an issue and who or at what level is the lax representative involved? Is it the coach?

4. You seem to end on a positive note suggesting that this thing may be resolved with us satisfying DR. Why do you come to this conclusion? Are you just being a hopeful fan or is there a suggestion by someone in the know that leads you to conclude that we might work this out?
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Ok i will try and answer.

1. The people associated with UR I talk to I am sure have had no direct conversations with Coaches or high level (Pres., AD) administrators. The person they talk to may have had some with the high level Admin. but I don't know that person's source(s). I would doubt anything I have heard is 1st hand to Rocco. My Del. source probably has had direct contact with high level Del. admin.

2. Not sure I get the question. I assume Danny has had conversations with the AD for sure and almost certainly with the President as well at various points along the timeline. What direct interaction with BOT he has had, I don't know.

3. My sense on this one is that its in fact not at all directly related. But it does bother Danny that we seem (to him) more committed to Lax than football. And in anger he said so! That got it out there and the Lax folks likely agree with you that its got nothing to do with it and wanted to keep it that way. Or they could have thought it was an attempt to grab money that's been going to them and fought back hard.

4. I wasn't trying to sound that positive of a note. I stated that some thought it was a play by Danny but I did not. I think he is gone. The positivity of the last sentence is probably best that while I think its all over, there are some at UR who might not believe that or that they can reverse the decision he has made. I am not feeling real good about it myself.
 
whampas said:
Would be helpful if I'm not the only one involved in this campaign.
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What I got back from Gill:


Thank you for your email about Coach Rocco. He has done a terrific job and we are working diligently to keep him in the Spider family. I appreciate you taking the time to write and express your thoughts. Best regards.



Keith Gill

Director of Athletics

University of Richmond
 
PhillySpider said:
I certainly think it came at a bad time when the sides were already at odds. Unclear how coincidental that is/was!
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Eight Legger said:
Thanks Philly, interesting timeline. So you are saying the fact that Rocco lost his backup QB for a couple games wasn't the reason for all this?
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Of course not, but being portrayed in the media as a win-at-all-costs monster - and the school not lifting a finger to refute those claims, which they could easily do without violating FERPA - probably didn't help.
 
whampas said:
What I got back from Gill:


Thank you for your email about Coach Rocco. He has done a terrific job and we are working diligently to keep him in the Spider family. I appreciate you taking the time to write and express your thoughts. Best regards.



Keith Gill

Director of Athletics

University of Richmond
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I predict everyone who writes him gets the same response. The copy-and-paste game will be strong this week.
 
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I wouldn't expect anything other than a form letter response given the volume of emails I'm sure he's getting, but at least it says they're trying to keep him.
 
whampas said:
What I got back from Gill:


Thank you for your email about Coach Rocco. He has done a terrific job and we are working diligently to keep him in the Spider family. I appreciate you taking the time to write and express your thoughts. Best regards.



Keith Gill

Director of Athletics

University of Richmond
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Respond: Dear Keith, If Coach Rocco goes to an FCS program you should join him with new employment.
 
This is a sad state of affairs for spider sports. I really thought the vision was to win championships period. With all our $ why can't we get it done with upgrades facilities etc?

Who would want to support a team that's goal is anything less, especially with football being able to achieve that.
 
Eight Legger said:
I predict everyone who writes him gets the same response. The copy-and-paste game will be strong this week.
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Personally, the response is irrelevant. The purpose of sending Gill an email is for him to know how much we value football at Richmond and want to see us improve. We don't want to be complacent and that as an administration, we should support Rocco's vision regarding football. Obviously we are not Alabama, but Richmond produces great results at the FCS level, and our funding should reflect that. I encourage all spider faithful to email Gill!
 
spiderstudent17 said:
Personally, the response is irrelevant. The purpose of sending Gill an email is for him to know how much we value football at Richmond and want to see us improve. We don't want to be complacent and that as an administration, we should support Rocco's vision regarding football. Obviously we are not Alabama, but Richmond produces great results at the FCS level, and our funding should reflect that. I encourage all spider faithful to email Gill!
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At this point, I don't think the Admin cares about the lost donations if we devalue athletics. This whole thing feels similar to the Cooper incident, but it seems to have much more steam and much more below board. All of the E-mails and protests will just be ignored, IMO. Upgraded parking won't matter when we're playing Georgetown or Colgate in conference games, in both football and basketball.
 
There are only two options in their response to our emails - the response they sent or no response at all. I couldn't see the AD responding and saying anything other than they are doing all they can to try to keep him, even if that is not the truth.
 
spiderstudent17 said:
Personally, the response is irrelevant. The purpose of sending Gill an email is for him to know how much we value football at Richmond and want to see us improve. We don't want to be complacent and that as an administration, we should support Rocco's vision regarding football. Obviously we are not Alabama, but Richmond produces great results at the FCS level, and our funding should reflect that. I encourage all spider faithful to email Gill!
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Ageeed 100%. I emailed Gill and got the same response. Make the man get carpal tunnel with all his copy and pasting.
 
One area that hasnt been addressed on this board yet: the potential impact of this on obtaining a top notch replacement should Danny leave.

Since this is now out in the media, we all know that coaches throughout FCS and beyond are reading about it, talking about it in their coaching circles, etc. season is over for 90% of the FCS. you better believe they're watching out for possible job openings.

If I'm a coach, and I see the 2nd highest paid coach bolt for a lateral move (if fcs) after a 3rd consecutive playoff bid and a semifinal trip last year, I'm wondering what the hell is going on at UR. So I'm going to read about a scenario where the coach is questioning the Admins vision? That's a major red flag. If Danny can't get it, what makes me think I would be any different if I took the job?
 
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Spiders10 said:
One area that hasnt been addressed on this board yet: the potential impact of this on obtaining a top notch replacement should Danny leave.

Since this is now out in the media, we all know that coaches throughout FCS and beyond are reading about it, talking about it in their coaching circles, etc. season is over for 90% of the FCS. you better believe they're watching out for possible job openings.

If I'm a coach, and I see the 2nd highest paid coach bolt for a lateral move (if fcs) after a 3rd consecutive playoff bid and a semifinal trip last year, I'm wondering what the hell is going on at UR. So I'm going to read about a scenario where the coach is questioning the Admins vision? That's a major red flag. If Danny can't get it, what makes me think I would be any different if I took the job?
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Thought the same thing. We could hire a great coach, but if admin does not change, he too will be gone in 3-5 years.
 
Seriously, what items could Rocco be asking for that is so off the charts absurd?
 
Spiders10 said:
Seriously, what items could Rocco be asking for that is so off the charts absurd?
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He wants a picture of his face on the helmets instead of a spider.
He wants a 400-member marching band, all full scholarships.
He wants a flagship radio station that can be heard after 6 pm.
He wants to move his coach's show from Outback to Morton's.
He wants an endless mashed potato bar installed in the football offices.
He wants an underground moving walkway built from the football locker room to dining hall.
He wants Gill to tip over the JMU stadium in the early morning hours while no one is looking.

If I hear about any other demands, I will let you know.
 
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seriously, if DR makes a move and it is to another fcs school, then someone, not sure who, OK gill or the crutch, should be sent packing unless he is asking for dancing girls, no admission standards, 21 uniforms like oregon, $2 million per, 3 automobiles, etc., etc. this will come to a head soon and then we may be able to discern how much BS we have been fed or accurate it was.
 
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