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Go spiders

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Oct 27, 2009
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I am so tired of the PC comments on this board. Some people speak up and complain so kudos to you for voicing your opinions. I'm not asking for everyone to be a debby downer, but call a spade a spade. Too many on this board are too PC and still think we have a good team, players and coaches. Our team is mediocre. In December 2008 we won the National Championship. We are not even close in talent to where that team was. How some posters on this board in the pre-season were saying we are going to contend for a national championship is beyond me. The team is mediocre, the fan base is shrinking, and the student body doesn't care about the team. Why aren't more fans, season ticket holders, and ex-players complaining. I'm not saying we need to be in National Championship every year to justify the team, but more should be expected from a program that won that National Championship. Losing to your rival by a score of 55-20 is EMBARRASSING! DR on your first press conference you preached about winning each day. I would love to hear how you think this program is winning each day?


I was inspired by Brian Mitchell's rant on the Redskins last night. I realize that our Spiders are not as bad as the Redskins but this guy showed true emotion, which is often missing in the current PC world we live in.

http://www.csnwashington.com/redskinsblog/brian-mitchell-goes-redskins-postgame-rant
 
Good rant. I agree that we should demand more. We got used to competing at the highest level and while it's not easy to stay there, we should expect to stay there based on our history, our university and our facilities. New Hampshire has managed to do it for a decade plus with significantly less as a university and in terms of facilities, which are a joke up there. Same for Villanova as far as facilities go.

I don't agree that people are being too "PC" though. Don't think that has anything to do with it. Everyone has different expectations of the program. Some of us won't be happy unless we are competing for a championship every year while others will be happy with a winning record. Just how it is.
 
I think the concept of expectations is sound. I also think the expectation this year of a playoff bid is certainly realistic given the way we finished last year & returning experienced / talented players. It's been too many years since a playoff. That's what you play for - not just to have a winning season. I don't know if underachievers is the right label, but too many things have gone wrong - defense, kicking game, & turnovers - that's a start. Some of this might just be bad luck & some might be fundamentals...whatever.

I hunger to see a playoff game with the Spiders & a return to us playing at our level of potential. It's surely been missing for the last 2 weeks.

I'm not sure what the course of action, but if we don't make the playoffs AGAIN this year, there needs to be change. The status quo doesn't cut it. Hopefully those in control of the program will recognize that and not shy away from making the types of changes needed.
 
That last playoff game at City Stadium against App State seems like a lifetime ago.
 
Originally posted by Go spiders:
Losing to your rival by a score of 55-20 is EMBARRASSING!
Click to expand...
I hate using that word but it really was about as embarrassed as I've been as a Richmond football fan in a long time, if ever.

Regarding 'expectations', i don't know what we should be thinking. And i truly mean that.

Should everyone that had money in the stock market during the 90's expect that same return over all other decades? Likewise, should we expect the same type of run that we had in the latter portion of last decade all decades?

Spider fans 20 years ago would probably be laughing at us for being this deflated by a 7-5 season (worst case). That doesn't make me feel any better today, but it's probably the truth.

The hard part of all this is the number of seniors we graduate. None of them were recruited to Richmond by Rocco and his bunch (except for a couple transfers). Are they the problem or is the coaching the problem or is it some combination of the two?

Next year is going to be a transition year. Unfortunately, we won't get the answer to the question until 2 years from now.
 
It's unrealistic to think that we can win a national championship every year (unless we change our name to North Dakota State) but the way I look at things in business and life, you're either getting better or you're getting worse. There's no in-between. We clearly have not gotten better in any of the past 4-5 seasons. So something has to happen or else we are just accepting that reality.
 
I think its reasonable for us to compete at the top end of the CAA year in and year out. To me, that means making the playoffs more years than not. If you look back at the last three seasons, we should have been in the playoffs two years ago. I will never complain about a record of 8-3 with a loss to a FBS and two conference losses. Last year, we had a period in the beginning of the season where we didn't play well. The team wasnt ready to go at G-W or URI. I am still baffled that we lost those two games. Similarly, the last two weeks the team basically didnt show up ready to play. The competition was obviously better this year with Maine and Barney, but it looked like the team was just going through the motions. Why is this happening? Did the coaches lose the team or do we lack leaders in the locker room? I think thats the question we are going to have to answer. I grew up attending UR football games and I agree that 20 years ago just having winning seasons was fine. But this is a different era in Spider Football. Clawson proved Richmond can be a national power in football. Why settle for anything less now?
 
there are a couple of ways to look at it, one is current team, record and two is overall program. as a program, think we are getting back to some stability, coach on the scene for more than one or two years and the number of bodies on the team. am disappointed in the last couple of weeks, we were set up and we just did not get it done on the field, injuries, yes but every team has guys out. once DR has been here and he has only his recruits, then we can see if he can do it or not. to just change coaches because we don't meet the expectations of some, is dan snyder mentality, 10 coaches in 12 years, that does not work. we have to stay the course right now, think we are moving in the right direction. now, if someone on here could guarantee that we could obtain a great coach, maybe, but if someone can guarantee that, i would be having a dream.
 
Here's another lense to look at it through:

After our 3-8 season at the end of the Latrell Scott debacle, would you have signed up for 8-3, 6-6, 7-5 (assuming a loss Saturday) over the next three seasons?

I think a lot of people would gladly have signed up for a 3 year run where we'd go 21 and 14 over the next 3 year stretch. I'm pretty sure I would have.

Rocco's biggest error may have been going 8-3 right out of the game. Had we gone 5-7 or 6-6, it would feel like we are 'building'. As it stands, it feels like choppy, uneven results.
 
The problem is that we knew we had talent that should never have gone 6-5 during Scott's year or 3-8 during Lineberg's year, so it was just viewed as an anomaly, rather than a dearth of talent. I expected we would get back where we belonged immediately. But the coaching carousel made that a prolonged issue, and we lost consistency.

When we went 8-3, I think that "proved" that we were back to many of us. Whether we just got lucky with lesser talent that year, played a weak schedule or truly were that good but then regressed in the years since, who knows.
 
A team's record to me is not relevant. In basketball at our level, the coach is judged by whether he gets an NCAA bid. Hey Mooney's won 20 plus games the past 2 years and we have 1 CBI game to show for it, whoopee.

Likewise in football, a coach is judged by the ability to get to the playoffs. After a coach has had a chance to establish their system 3-4 years, that should be the expectation each and every year and if a coach does not meet the expectation consistently, than we need to evaluate that coach's continued employment as head coach.

Rocco is still within his window of implementing his system, but next year will be the 4th year of his system and well time is ticking to starting getting the team into postseason. 7-5 this year with the number of seniors playing on this team is not an acceptable outcome, but we also had some key injuries this year that hurt us.

Rocco deserves probably another 2 years, to deliver a playoff birth. However, if he fails to do that, I think his seat should be feeling mighty uncomfortable, to say the least.
 
I was there and it was embarrassing. i felt bad for the seniors especially as well as my son now in the stands. Even though they have better athletes, i thought we could play with them. It was obviously they were faster than we were. We also did not have our best defensive game plan. we did not respect Lee's ability to throw the ball and he made us look foolish. Combine that with our game plan and it was a bad combination. And credit to them for finding our weak spot in the secondary and taking advantage of it. We stopped the run as planned. But Lee lit us up.

I disagree that we are not a good team. If we win Saturday we finish 8-4. 8-4 is not average.

As to the point about our rival, i tend to disagree. I expect many of you to disagree with this but here is my point. JMU is going to sign some athletes we cannot get past admissions (recent RB whose name slips me). like it or not it's a much bigger program as well with more resources. When is the last time you guys went in our weight room?

A lot has changed since 2008. FCS is going through some of the same seperation as FBS. Just like the FBS has the 5 power conferences (and there is a difference bewteen those schools) we are starting to see seperation between schools at the FCS. It may hurt some feelings but it is what it is.

In 2008 London won with Clawson's players. We all know that. The players i have spoken with loved Clawson. And it may surprise you but every single player that I have spoken with loved London. he was a players coach and could build cohesiveness among all the various personalities. Everyone talks about coaching and the difficulties. The recruiting, the game management, the player development, they are all tough. however I think the hardest part is building a cohesive unit from widely diverse personalities, both coaches and players, as well as motivating the group. This is where I think we could do a little better. It starts with a cohesive coaching unit and then down to the players. And it require the support of the AD. You would be surprised how hard Rocco has to fight for some things. Its apparent to all the kids that basketball is the favorite. Some of you still trash London but he got those boys to play as a team. I think we could improve in this area. Coaches are not super human. they screw up just like we do. Good management is difficult. We have all made our mistakes. Why should they be any different?

I love Richmond. I think it is a fabulous school. My son played for some coaches he liked and respected. it was a great environment. And having another son playing at this level I have some things to compare. I felt the pieces were there this year for a special team. for some reason we were unable to bring them together.

The season is not over however we no longer control our own destiny. Losing the other day hurt, losing badly hurt worse. Maybe we win saturday and the chips fall our way. Two years ago we just missed when we were 8-4 and only 16 teams got in. Maybe its our turn to get off the bubble.
 
Come on guys virtually everyone expected a playoff
appearance this year. As I've said before
22 seniors, 13+ starters, a lot of them skilled positions, and a experienced OL a two year starter at QB. 2 easy wins OOC on the schedule. We played 3 of the leagues bottom 4
teams. Had our tough games at home. The team finished well last year. What other expectations could you have?
 
I expected a playoff as well but also expected this team to be between 8-4 and 9-3.
 
It's not just the losses to Maine and JMU it's the horrible play in those games that will keep us out of the post season. I hope we beat W&M simply so the seniors can go out on a winning note and nothing more.
 
Unfortunately we do not have the student athletes to be better than average in this conference. On the other hand if we had great coaches they could disguise our athletic shortcomings, unfortunately we do not have that. Had we not experimented with QBs against UNH things may have been different, but we didn't and they aren't . Maine was a total fiasco by the OC, for the life of me I cannot understand why we risk throwing sideline passes when we have the lead, throw the ball down field or establish a run game. After UNH and a few cupcakes we played a hell of a game defensibly against Villanova when they were having a lackluster day, however we should have won by double digits. Then Maine and JMU, turnover after turnover, total lack of basic football fundamentals, which should have been corrected fafter Maine. And JMU, what BS about over planning for a running QB to give up 400 plus passing yards. Major disappointment, not the team, the coaches. and I will be surprised, shocked, if we are successful versus Bill& Mary. Wasted season and opportunity. I suppose we should be satisfied with 7 or 8 wins annually and never compete for a championship, starting to sound like a UVA fan. Rant over.
 
Danny talks about our depth before the start of a season.He doesn't refer to the quality of our depth.We have missed 2 defensive backs big time in our 2 recent losses namely David Jones and David Herlocker.Their loss has had a dramatic negative effect on our coverage abilities in terms of speed and quickness and savvy in the secondary.We have a lot of defensive backs but none better than these two.

Our schedule favored us when Strauss went down.A walk on QB could have beaten URI and Elon.

Stephen Barnette's loss at WR was a critical loss.No one in our receiving corp is even close to his ability.His presence helped other receivers and of course anyone throwing to him.

Danny should forget mentioning depth.It's the quality of depth that matters.Next year we likely won't hear the word depth nor should we.
 
Hey guys . We are in the CAA playing FCS Football. We don't play anyone from the SEC ! We play the game against schools we are supposed to be able to compete with. Compete with ; not beat every time. Of late, we have not even done that. Why shouldn't we expect great things from our football team and Coaches ? They both are "paid" handsomely and they chose to be here. The players get value in free education from a darn good school and the coaches get value in a salary and the opportunity to do what they love. We don't compete with the likes of Florida State. We compete with similar schools to ourselves. Many are larger and many have different admission standards. So what !! All of them face challenges with administration , injuries and revenue allocation. William and Mary and others face the same challenges we do. Some would argue they have it worse. These things are just an excuse used when you are losing. I didn't hear any of this talk the year we won it all. I, like many of you, am tired of all of the excuses because that is just what they are. EXCUSES !! We have awesome facilities, from what I can see, plenty of money being put into the program, and a good group of alums. If you want more buzz and larger crowds at the games, just WIN !! That is and always will be the reason teams play the game and we go , root, and watch. Look at what VCU has done with their basketball program. I remember the days when they were woeful. But not any more !! Nobody ever had success paved with excuses. I just hope our team has enough character to go and kick William & Larry's ass on Saturday. NO MORE EXCUSES PLEASE !!!
 
I think our wide receivers are the best group in the league with or without SB.
 
Hey Juris-

Let's see how the logic works-

JMU receivers looked pretty good.

Where were Herlocker and Jones?

When Roane(ILB)is late to get to a wide receiver on the line of scrimmage,we are in BIG trouble.Roane shouldn't be on this guy,in any case.

No excuses.
 
Here are the facts:

With Herlocker at 6-2, 214 and Jones at 6-1,187 out, our secondary is extremely vulnerable.Both are quick as cats,have speed and play big and can cover plenty of territory even though they have size.Herlocker is a hybrid.

Thems the facts.Nothing but the facts.I rest my case.
 
Juris, it takes more than a stadium to say we have great facilities. You ever been in that dungeon of a weightroom? Or the training room? If we have so much money then why do we sell the seniors jerseys in the book store? Are we that hard up for 50 bucks? I could tell you stories of how Rocco has to beg the AD for funds.
 
Sadly,heard the same about DR to Gill.Gill favors BBall by orders of magnitude.Comes from a non football school and played at a non football school.Miller got it,not sure about his successor.
 
I know nothing about Gill's personal sports pecking order, but I'd have to be convinced with some actual evidence that he has it out for the football program or is somehow catering to basketball. I haven't been to our football weight room, but in general, how much "worse" can any of our facilities be than New Hampshire? They play at a high school field and are located in New Hampshire. Yet they have been to the playoffs every year for a decade or something.
 
I wasn't aware of the selling of the jerseys. I wonder however if that is more about letting the student body and fans feel a part of the team by having a real jersey than it is about raising 50 bucks. Even if it is true, I am certain that every other FCS school faces the same or similar challenges of underfunding and feeling relegated to some other sport or academic cause . There is always going to be friction and tension between athletics and academics , especially in FCS school environments. Plus, I don't see how the performance of our team of late is related to the weight room, the selling of the jerseys, or really anything else other than coaching , talent or desire. YMMV . Remember, NO EXCUSES !!
 
Originally posted by Juris Spider:
I wasn't aware of the selling of the jerseys. I wonder however if that is more about letting the student body and fans feel a part of the team by having a real jersey than it is about raising 50 bucks. Even if it is true, I am certain that every other FCS school faces the same or similar challenges of underfunding and feeling relegated to some other sport or academic cause . There is always going to be friction and tension between athletics and academics , especially in FCS school environments. Plus, I don't see how the performance of our team of late is related to the weight room, the selling of the jerseys, or really anything else other than coaching , talent or desire. YMMV . Remember, NO EXCUSES !!
Click to expand...
How about doing what most schools do and putting the jersey in a frame for the seniors and presenting at the year end banquet. Opps forgot, we dont have a banquet. Plus that would be saying thank you and building a culture.


just giving the seniors the first option to buy their jersey before they put them on the shelves would be an improvement.

As to letting the students be a part of the team and having a real jersey, are we talking about the same students that dont come to the games and generally dont care for the football team? Are we talking THOSE students?
 
One Putt . I like your suggestions. I feel like the seniors should be given framed jerseys as well. To the extent that any of this improves the culture surrounding our program, I would think that we would all be in favor of it. I don't believe however that any of this greatly impacts the performance of the team these last couple of weeks . What say you and others ?
 
Originally posted by Juris Spider:
One Putt . I like your suggestions. I feel like the seniors should be given framed jerseys as well. To the extent that any of this improves the culture surrounding our program, I would think that we would all be in favor of it. I don't believe however that any of this greatly impacts the performance of the team these last couple of weeks . What say you and others ?
Click to expand...
Its a small thing, i agree. I see what a lot of other programs do thus my suggestion. most teams have year end banquest and you have to buy tickets and they sell out. alumni buy tiockets, parents buy tickets, usually at 50 a pop. that would cover the jerseys sales. If you want to raise money try that. Richmond has millions. they dont really need it.

I have danced around the real issue. For the most part we have good players and good coaches. We could do a better job building a team. That's what Clawson and London had.
 
Clawson recruited and developed quality offensive and defensive linemen. That's why those teams were so great. Our current o-line hasn't been able to create a push in the run game in forever. They are solid pass blockers but our short yardage and goaline run blocking has been non existent for a long time. Same goes for the d-line. We never get a pass rush with our front 4 and we never seem to blitz so that leads to opposing qb's having all day to pick us apart like Lee did on Saturday.
 
I paid for one of those $70 jerseys. Even though I could tell it was a few years old it made me excited about our team.

After the JMU game I'm embarrassed to wear it.
 
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