Pre-Season # 25 ( I think 15 is more apropos - and Goodman agrees)

[plydogg]

Rothstein?? Come on, by the time he auto-schedules the same 12 tweets for every day of every year until the end of eternity and then works on coming up with some juvenile catch-phrases for every P6 team and does his podcast and radio show, there's no time left to proactively reach out to anyone.

Man you guys really hate Rothstein. Someone who finally puts the work in and truly has passion for college basketball and doesn’t just sell out to certain teams or coaches. The guy lives and breathes college ball and is being hated on for tweeting every morning and having catch phrases? That has nothing to do with his basketball analysis

 

[97spiderfan]

I get the Rothstein hate, he comes across as douche at times and has a really unhealthy hard on for Costco. But he puts out a lot of stuff on the A-10 and for a major college basketball writer that is pretty rare. I don't see Goodman or Seth Davis talking A-10 hoops on any type of regular basis.

 

[Eight Legger]

Man you guys really hate Rothstein. Someone who finally puts the work in and truly has passion for college basketball and doesn’t just sell out to certain teams or coaches. The guy lives and breathes college ball and is being hated on for tweeting every morning and having catch phrases? That has nothing to do with his basketball analysis

I just find him to be an arrogant d-bag, but everyone doesn't need to have my opinion.

 

[SFspidur]

Goodman talks up the A-10 quite a bit. Just had Mooney on his podcast last week.

 

[GKiller]

I'm betting he isn't getting minutes at the 4, and you're betting he isn't getting minutes at the 5. I assume we agree he isn't getting minutes at the 3. so either he isn't getting minutes (which would make us both right), or one of us is wrong.

I actually like some of what Grace does at the 5 and I'm excited about Weir. that said, I could see Sal beating out either of them easier than I can see him beating out Burton. Sal did start 2 games when Grant was out last year.

question is ... do you think Rothstein just wings it himself for his projected starting 5 and bench, or does he reach out to the teams he's ranking for their input?

Hey 23 psst we're 34 not 35!

I think Rothstein is winging the bench to some extent yes. And that's no surprise really it's hard to be up on every team & project their benches so I give him a pass there. But as 23 pointed out there was no change at all on us from his March update. He probably puts Dji Bailey on there solely because he was a former Wake commit. He's recovering from injury & I have hard time seeing him have much of a role...this season. Also I would never put Sal over the Grace/Weir combo. So to me he's winging it a bit bc a much more accurate bench would have Wilson and Grace or Weir listed instead of Sal and Dji. But the fun thing is you never know.

Also regarding Sal and those clips sman, while those are quick cut highlights do you see Sal being guarded by Grant or Grace or Weir much if at all? I don't. And vice versa he doesn't seem to be guarding them on D. Much more often on Cayo, Burton or a walk on. To me that is telling. Very possible I missed some where it did happen but I think majority he's not in that role. He could play some spot minutes at 5 offensively but don't think defensively imo.

Lastly on the NCAA tourney games, one other big deal is you get neutral league refs. NCAA handles unlike regular season games where the home team contracts the refs. So in reg season you are getting "SEC" or "ACC" refs for instance in those away games. Why neutral site reg season tourneys r important too. Granted those refs are not exclusive, we get some of those same refs. But they do ref more games for certain leagues especially the P6 ones. In NCAA in theory you get a fairer shake on the refs assigned.

 

[plydogg]

I just find him to be an arrogant d-bag, but everyone doesn't need to have my opinion.

i understand that. I didn’t word what I thought well, which is that I don’t think personal thoughts, like on him being a dbag, should discredit his basketball views and opinions. Doesn’t really seem that happens here but have seen it outside

 

[Eight Legger]

i understand that. I didn’t word what I thought well, which is that I don’t think personal thoughts, like on him being a dbag, should discredit his basketball views and opinions. Doesn’t really seem that happens here but have seen it outside

I'll read what he has to say, because sometimes he gets some insight no one else has. It just often comes across to me as if he's working harder to make us think he's the smartest guy in the room than he is to actually try to be the smartest guy in the room. He's one of those guys frequenting tweeting things like "Source: Joe Blow committed to Texas," when Joe Blow posted "I committed to Texas" himself like an hour earlier on Twitter.

 

[spider23]

Hey 23 psst we're 34 not 35!

Close enough if we were playing hand grenades or horse shoes
Anyway, good to see that we are in NCAA range to start the season in almost any published poll. That is a good place to start.

 

[spiderman]

Also regarding Sal and those clips sman, while those are quick cut highlights do you see Sal being guarded by Grant or Grace or Weir much if at all? I don't. And vice versa he doesn't seem to be guarding them on D. Much more often on Cayo, Burton or a walk on. To me that is telling.

I'm not sure you can read much into that. clearly in an intra-squad pick up game if Grant is on one team and Weir or Grace is on the other team, they'll cover each other over Sal. that's a size thing. and there will be some big strong 5's that aren't good matchups for Sal.

but come game time and after a lot of practice watching these guys ... best 9 play. if CM likes Sal on the floor more than Grace or Weir, then he might be the backup 5.

I just can't see CM playing Sal over Burton at backup forward with all the Burton hype this preseason.

 

[spider23]

KenPom has us 62.

A10
45. Dayton
49. SLU
62. Spiders
76. Bonnies
80. Davidson
84. Duquesne
97. VCU (Lambs)
98. Rhody (Light Blue Lambs)

44. SDSU

2022 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

 

[spider23]

Overall, I think a really good showing for the A10 with 8 teams in the top 100. By comparison, our attempted conference showdown partner (Mountain West) only has 2 teams in the top 100.

My other fave team SDSU at 44, but IMO they have some pretty good talent returning, but a lot more question marks than the Spiders, and backcourt is one of them and not comparable to ours at the moment.

I have been touting Dayton as our biggest threat, and this ranking does back that up. We still should be better - even with loss of Sherod- but they have talent, and are looking to race ahead of us in the next couple of years if moon cannot ramp up the recruiting a little more.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

For some reason, I don't trust the polls.

 

[urmite]

KenPom has us 62.

A10
45. Dayton
49. SLU
62. Spiders
76. Bonnies
80. Davidson
84. Duquesne
97. VCU (Lambs)
98. Rhody (Light Blue Lambs)

44. SDSU

2022 Pomeroy College Basketball Ratings

Actually isn't SLU 45, Dayton 49?

 

[urmite]

WVU 8, UK 11...

 

[Eight Legger]

62?!?

 

[spider23]

Actually isn't SLU 45, Dayton 49?

Thats correct Mite, looks like I flipped them. I guess I was trying to hard to back up my thesis on Dayton . Both will be tough. Crutcher is really good and really clutch. SLU bullied us last year, and they bring back the shooter that missed last season. I think overall it is very good we have 8 teams starting in the top 100, as we see how fluid the scheduling is this season.

 

[8legs1dream]

we are either in or almost in virtually every top 25 list in existance and Kenny's computer says 62? nah, thats bullcrap

 

[spider23]

Ya dream, I am not sure how this calculation works. Take Kentucky, I believe they lost entire starting 5, and essentially will be playing mostly freshman, granted very highly rated freshman, but not sure how that equates to a no. 11 ranking to start the season?

 

[RichmondNative]

The preseason KenPom ranking just illustrates the point that the computers aren’t kind to the non-power conferences, which isn’t new but is going to be very obvious this season. Exactly the reason that the non-conference schedule is so important for A10 teams.

 

[fan2011]

One metric Kenpom uses in his preseason ratings is performance over the past 5 years. We have not been great over the past 5 years.

 

[Eight Legger]

For someone as advanced as Ken, that seems sort of insane. Five years? No one who played five years ago is playing this year for anyone's, unless they took a redshirt or injury year.

 

[fan2011]

For someone as advanced as Ken, that seems sort of insane. Five years? No one who played five years ago is playing this year for anyone's, unless they took a redshirt or injury year.

Here is Kenpom's explanation of his preseason ratings. He actually uses the past 9 years, and likely weights more recent years higher (how much higher I do not know). The weights are based on regression, not just his feeling about how much previous seasons should predict the next season. If the data shows that a teams rating 5 years ago tends not to be correlated to the next seasons final rating, it will have a very low weight in the preseason ratings.

Returning players are also a factor, but we are being dragged down by our recent performance.

2016 preseason ratings | The kenpom.com blog

kenpom.com

Preseason ratings – now with transfers! | The kenpom.com blog

kenpom.com

In one of the articles Kenpom shows his preseason ratings have less error than Torvik (or at least they did in 2016).

 

[plydogg]

62?!?

Seems right to me. Last year we were on the bubble and now our returning talent without Nick means we are a lesser team. Nobody here will agree which is fine, but all offseason (even before Nick’s injury) I felt like we did absolutely nothing to justify a jump into the top 25

 

[spider23]

Ply, I get it, and agree that expectations probably should be lower without Nick. But top 25 hype I think was warranted with him. One of the big talking points with coaches, like Texas TEch the last few years having a run to the final game was: "Get Old", meaning experience really makes a difference in college hoops. And we definitely have an old team - especially if Nick was still available. I think the other thing that points to us being very good is we have an exceptional back court, that is always a prime component of mid majors being in the top 25 or making NCAA run. We just saw that preseason ranking with both Gilly and Francis in the top 20 in the country at their positions. That is big. I just came across a write up I did before our 2011 NCAA season, and our current guards are strongest 1-2 punch since a sr Gonzo and a Jr KA. I'll share the write up as time permits tomorrow.

 

[97spiderfan]

Ah yes, preseason polls are always so accurate and predictive.

 

[urmite]

Here is Kenpom's explanation of his preseason ratings. He actually uses the past 9 years, and likely weights more recent years higher (how much higher I do not know). The weights are based on regression, not just his feeling about how much previous seasons should predict the next season. If the data shows that a teams rating 5 years ago tends not to be correlated to the next seasons final rating, it will have a very low weight in the preseason ratings.

Returning players are also a factor, but we are being dragged down by our recent performance.

2016 preseason ratings | The kenpom.com blog

kenpom.com

Preseason ratings – now with transfers! | The kenpom.com blog

kenpom.com

In one of the articles Kenpom shows his preseason ratings have less error than Torvik (or at least they did in 2016).

Torvik seems to have Dayton as #91 with #107 Offense (KenPom #21)

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

This core group is 49-47, and a lot of those 47 are weak. A computer isn't going to ignore that.

Anyway, preseason computer rankings are bound to have a ton of noise.

 

[Spiderwiz]

college-basketball-1-357-rankings-here-are-the-projected-best-68-teams-for-the-2020-21-season

St Louis at 31 with UR at 36 ...

 

[ur-2005]

AP poll out at 12 today. WIll be curious to see where we land.

 

[SFspidur]

My bad...had to redo my post. AP's tweet linked to the page that was still showing the final poll from last season.

Anyway, Spiders got 40 points, good for 32nd. Kentucky at #10, WVU at #15, Northern Iowa got one point. SLU got 8 points.

NCAA College Basketball Rankings: AP Top 25 Basketball Poll

The official page for the AP Top 25 men's college basketball poll. Keep up to date and view the latest NCAA men's basketball ranking updates each week for the 2023-24 season.

apnews.com

 

[Eight Legger]

Seems right to me. Last year we were on the bubble and now our returning talent without Nick means we are a lesser team. Nobody here will agree which is fine, but all offseason (even before Nick’s injury) I felt like we did absolutely nothing to justify a jump into the top 25

Well, this doesn't take into account the fact that a lot of teams ahead of us last year got worse because players left or graduated, while we lost "only" Nick. Of course we don't get better simply by getting older, but we are one of the most experienced teams in the nation, and that counts for something. I wasn't necessarily expecting us to be ranked in the top 25, but I think we are a top-40 team without any question. Of course we have to prove it on the court, but so does everyone.

 

[SFspidur]

Picked up 21 points in the coaches poll, good for 32nd. Dayton is one spot ahead of us with 23 points. Nothing for SLU.

Kentucky at #9, WVU at #15, and UNI got 8 points.

NCAA Men’s College Basketball Coaches Poll | USA Today Sports

Weekly results from the USA TODAY Sports NCAA Men’s College Basketball coaches poll, conducted weekly using a panel of head coaches at Division I schools.

www.usatoday.com