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State of Program - 18 games into season

I didn't expect NCAA bid this year - I thought we had too many new pieces
This is old school thinking now, this is the transfer portal era. Kansas State lost their best player for $400,000, and ended up much better, ranked 11 currently. This is not an era that you can say " can't expect much b/c we have new pieces. Next year we replace two starters again.
 
Right and at some point, you have to say we are a .500 ball club this year, Goose is a senior, we are going to need Roche to be a big piece next year, so maybe we make an adjustment in playing time.

And I like Goose, he brings a lot of value to the team, but we need guys on the floor who can make shots right now and put pressure on the defense. That would be helpful in the long term development of Nelson as well., if he has a backcourt mate who can allow him to fully run our offense as designed.
How many times over the years has Mooney played loyalty over practicality and forward looking.

This one is a difficult issue because 1) we all have seen that Roche can light it up and 2) Goose is more of a defensive specialist than scorer s as though he can on occasion be points productive. Most of us all like Goose.

Tough one, but my bet is Goose’s minutes stay constant down the stretch. I just can’t see Mooney stepping up and thinking “next year” even if we play .500 ball or less the rest of season.
 
This is old school thinking now, this is the transfer portal era. Kansas State lost their best player for $400,000, and ended up much better, ranked 11 currently. This is not an era that you can say " can't expect much b/c we have new pieces. Next year we replace two starters again.
we do, but we don't replace 5,000 points.
 
sman - thanks for correcting that error, it should have said .353 FGs followed by his 3 point %. He should look for 2s, especially because he's a very good ft shooter and UR needs easy points. But the 3s not so much.
 
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sman - thanks for correcting that error, it should have said .353 FGs followed by his 3 point %. He should look for 2s, especially because he's a very good ft shooter and UR needs easy points. But the 3s not so much.
agreed, that's what the stats show so far. I doubt he'd conceed he's not a good 3 point shooter though. did shoot 39% from 3 as a freshman. like 4700 said, he might just need to be a little more selective.
 
How many times over the years has Mooney played loyalty over practicality and forward looking.

This one is a difficult issue because 1) we all have seen that Roche can light it up and 2) Goose is more of a defensive specialist than scorer s as though he can on occasion be points productive. Most of us all like Goose.

Tough one, but my bet is Goose’s minutes stay constant down the stretch. I just can’t see Mooney stepping up and thinking “next year” even if we play .500 ball or less the rest of season.

yes Moon will only play for this year. He'll have last year end of season run on his mind too probably even though that just reinforces, it doesn't change approach. culturally it is not the right move to act otherwise. There are exceptions if really young or weaker w vet leadership, but this team isn't one of those. I've never been a big fan of college teams "playing for next year" myself because culturally it creates a real problem imo. And harder today w transfers to know what next year looks like anyway.

Nothing to do with Roche. He's deserving to help THIS year. I've said increase his mins too and while I'm a big Goose advocate they can come from him. Goose would still have & deserve heavy mins but doesn't have to be low 30s, it can be mid to upper 20s. U also open up some more Roche time by having Goose take a little bit of Nelson mins at PG. Nelson would still play heavy mins too but Roche could benefit w Goose, w/o the score first pg.
 
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Agree - we don't have anyone to replace Burton, but if Moneyball type fashion - would we get enough improvement from Nelson, Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow next season to make up for Burton. I would hope so, but even that just gets us back to even with this year - which like you said - is not shaping up to be an NCAA year. BUT - if Burton were to stay and those guys continue to develop and improve, its a different story.

In terms of improvement - I feel confident Nelson will progress the most. My biggest concern is Roche and Quinn. We need them to take steps forward. If we are sitting here next year saying we hope Quinn is more aggressive or why can't Roche get more shots - then the future is not looking good.
Burton wanted out last year. No way he’s staying again. And there is no way we replace his stats with the guys we have. But even if that was possible, as you said we just wind up back in the same position…at best. Next year is going to be ugly.
 
we do, but we don't replace 5,000 points.
We don’t need to replace 5,000 points. They weren’t all scored in one year. This year we are only averaging about 2 points a game less than last year, so that’s about 38 points we haven’t replaced to date.
 
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We don’t need to replace 5,000 points. They weren’t all scored in one year. This year we are only averaging about 2 points a game less than last year, so that’s about 38 points we haven’t replaced to date.
Yep, we really did replace a lot. Obviously, even coming in at 20 years old, jaynel does not have the experience and savvy of Nelly yet. Hard to replace but that is where a JB or DT excelled at in game strategy and game management, despite what the truthers come up with, not Moon's strong point.
 
This is old school thinking now, this is the transfer portal era. Kansas State lost their best player for $400,000, and ended up much better, ranked 11 currently. This is not an era that you can say " can't expect much b/c we have new pieces. Next year we replace two starters again.
I agree things are different now with the portal - but I don't think our system and style of play lends itself to transfers walking in the door and within 3 months being an all A10 level player, and that is what we need right now from the portal. Maybe Mooney gets there at some point, but right now - this season - it is playing out that guys like Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow need time to either get used to our system or acclimate to higher level of play - OR probably both.
 
Then maybe that’s a sign that our “system” needs to be scrapped. A team that didn’t exist four months ago just beat our ass, so if that wasn’t a wake-up call, nothing ever will be. Mooney is taking five years to do what some coaches can do in four months. He’s a dinosaur.
 
I agree things are different now with the portal - but I don't think our system and style of play lends itself to transfers walking in the door and within 3 months being an all A10 level player, and that is what we need right now from the portal. Maybe Mooney gets there at some point, but right now - this season - it is playing out that guys like Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow need time to either get used to our system or acclimate to higher level of play - OR probably both.
Well, we are 4-2 IC right now, and Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow are a big part of that.
 
Then maybe that’s a sign that our “system” needs to be scrapped. A team that didn’t exist four months ago just beat our ass, so if that wasn’t a wake-up call, nothing ever will be. Mooney is taking five years to do what some coaches can do in four months. He’s a dinosaur.
4-2 IC after losing Jacob, Grant, Nate, and Nick. Wow, how terrible. We need a whole new "system", right?
 
Burton wanted out last year. No way he’s staying again. And there is no way we replace his stats with the guys we have. But even if that was possible, as you said we just wind up back in the same position…at best. Next year is going to be ugly.
So true
 
Burton wanted out last year. No way he’s staying again. And there is no way we replace his stats with the guys we have. But even if that was possible, as you said we just wind up back in the same position…at best. Next year is going to be ugly.
"Same position". We are 4-2 IC right now. Are things really ugly?
 
I agree things are different now with the portal - but I don't think our system and style of play lends itself to transfers walking in the door and within 3 months being an all A10 level player, and that is what we need right now from the portal. Maybe Mooney gets there at some point, but right now - this season - it is playing out that guys like Roche, Quinn, and Bigelow need time to either get used to our system or acclimate to higher level of play - OR probably both.
Wasn't Blake an all A10 player his 1st year? Also, it took TJ a year to get his A game, but after that he was one of the top players in the league. In the off season we will pick up some strong transfers that will be part of the rotation next year.
 
Wasn't Blake an all A10 player his 1st year? Also, it took TJ a year to get his A game, but after that he was one of the top players in the league. In the off season we will pick up some strong transfers that will be part of the rotation next year.
Exactly, and I have no idea why anyone would be disappointed with Roche, Bigelow, or Quinn right now. So, they have to be all A-10 to be huge factors?
 
Then maybe that’s a sign that our “system” needs to be scrapped. A team that didn’t exist four months ago just beat our ass, so if that wasn’t a wake-up call, nothing ever will be. Mooney is taking five years to do what some coaches can do in four months. He’s a dinosaur.
I am more upset about HOW we lost in Olean than that we loss in Olean.

However, I'm not sure how our fans would react if we had the same record as the Bonnies (Q1 0-0, Q2 0-2, Q3 5-6, Q4 4-1).
But I will say the fact that at least 2 of the 4 "transfer up"s are playing better than they were at lower levels does say something.
 
Exactly, and I have no idea why anyone would be disappointed with Roche, Bigelow, or Quinn right now. So, they have to be all A-10 to be huge factors?
Would you say there is a chance Tyler leaves after this season?
Which of the 3 do you think is playing better than Tyler this season?

If he isn't here, how good do you think we need Tyler's replacement to be next season?

We still have 2 new players to get, and I would still like them to be: the first better than Sophomore Grace, the second better than Freshman Burton...
 
I am more upset about HOW we lost in Olean than that we loss in Olean.

However, I'm not sure how our fans would react if we had the same record as the Bonnies (Q1 0-0, Q2 0-2, Q3 5-6, Q4 4-1).
But I will say the fact that at least 2 of the 4 "transfer up"s are playing better than they were at lower levels does say something.
Well, we are 0-1/0-3/4-3/7-1, so basically we are worse than them against Q1-2 competition, they have more Q3 wins than us and we have been winning mostly games against the worst teams in college basketball. So…
 
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Wasn't Blake an all A10 player his 1st year? Also, it took TJ a year to get his A game, but after that he was one of the top players in the league. In the off season we will pick up some strong transfers that will be part of the rotation next year.
To be fair...believe Blake as a transfer under then NCAA rules sat out a year, so a year of practice in the system before hitting the floor.
 
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Then maybe that’s a sign that our “system” needs to be scrapped. A team that didn’t exist four months ago just beat our ass, so if that wasn’t a wake-up call, nothing ever will be. Mooney is taking five years to do what some coaches can do in four months. He’s a dinosaur.
The system is here to stay as long as Mooney stays. Force fitting players into it will continue. A new coach with new approaches is only a dream.
 
Good thread and lot of varied takes as per usual.

My assessment is still that we are a fairly average team. 4-2 is mostly meaningless at this point, particularly who those wins have come against.

To improve this season:
1. Burton stays consistently high
2. Quinn asserts himself on O
3. Fewer rotations with both Quinn and grace together
4. Roche closer to 25mpg
5. Nelson (and all) stops the sloppy turnovers

Future looks…bright(er). We can’t go three years without ncaa. We saw the value that brought to recruiting and transfers this year. We fall further behind when we repeatedly miss.
 
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agreed, that's what the stats show so far. I doubt he'd conceed he's not a good 3 point shooter though. did shoot 39% from 3 as a freshman. like 4700 said, he might just need to be a little more selective.
How about now? I'll say it but I'm late bc the ESPN crew repeated it over and over and over - he's not a good 3 point shooter. Yet still gets 5 up a game.
 
Just like some of you so called fans are “dead or at rock bottom”. We ought to be picking them up. Some are fair weather fans, all is well as long as we are winning.
 
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