Offensive Rating vs. Usage - A10 players

[brooklyn brownstone]

Grabbed this off the comments in that Frank Martin twitter thread that got linked in the UMass game thread.

A10 O-rating vs Usage

As per this, Roche appears to have the highest offensive rating in the A10, defined as a calculation of points produced per 100 possessions. He has a criminally low usage rate. Usage defined as % of team's offensive possessions that end with a turnover, FG attempt or FT attempt by that player.

Tyler has a high usage rate, one of highest in A10 unsurprisingly, but appears to be above average.

Couple other guys are notable for low rating/high usage.

Get Roche more shots.

 

[urmite]

While I agree. I wonder if you move a player right on that graph will it move them down. While moving left would move them up.

I would suspect a correlation but have no idea when it would stop being a net gain.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Could be but only way to find out is to get a guy the ball more. Quinn has a decently high usage but a high o-rating.

UMass has a player with relatively low usage who is way at the bottom of the O-ratings, which is why this was in that thread to begin with, I think.

 

[Eight Legger]

Roche isn't getting enough shots? Gee, where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, that's right -- from almost everyone on this board all season. And the one person who could actually do something about it hasn't -- 20 games into the season. Insane.

 

[8legs1dream]

Roche isn't getting enough shots? Gee, where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, that's right -- from almost everyone on this board all season. And the one person who could actually do something about it hasn't -- 20 games into the season. Insane.

no other coach could possibly lead this collection of talent as well as Moonie has, we are fortunate to have him guiding the ship!

#M4L

 

[spiderman]

Roche isn't getting enough shots? Gee, where have we heard this before? Oh yeah, that's right -- from almost everyone on this board all season. And the one person who could actually do something about it hasn't -- 20 games into the season. Insane.

I want more minutes for Roche. that doesn't guarantee more shots. we run an offense, not plays for a SG. and I'm good with that. Roche has to create shots for himself. and Nelson (and others) have to create opportunities for him and find him better when he's open.

Blake had no problem finding shots from the same position.

 

[Eight Legger]

I want more minutes for Roche. that doesn't guarantee more shots. we run an offense, not plays for a SG. and I'm good with that. Roche has to create shots for himself. and Nelson (and others) have to create opportunities for him and find him better when he's open.

Blake had no problem finding shots from the same position.

I want more shots for him. It's the coach's job to figure out how to make that happen effectively. I'm pretty sure Roche didn't suddenly forget how to get open shots, one year after leading all freshman in the nation in made threes.

And if for some reason that is the case, isn't it incumbent upon the coach to try to find ways to get him open, rather than just saying 'Hey Roche -- figure it out!'

 

[spiderman]

yes, coach should be on Roche on where and when to move, to cut harder, etc ...
and on Nelson to find the shooter when he draws help.
and on Quinn/Grace to look from him from the high and low posts.
Blake got shots. coach didn't draw up plays for him. we run an offense that gets shooters shots.

 

[spiderman]

and btw ... Roche is getting shots. he's taken 94 3's. that's only behind Burton.
problem is he's played 329 minutes less than Burton.
he's 7th in minutes.

 

[spider23]

yes, also be on Goose to be more aggressive I believe. It was interesting watching the Duke / Va Tech game the other night. Sounds like the Tech coach stays on Mutts to look for his offense. Gotta do what you gotta do.

 

[bongturk]

yes, coach should be on Roche on where and when to move, to cut harder, etc ...
and on Nelson to find the shooter when he draws help.
and on Quinn/Grace to look from him from the high and low posts.
Blake got shots. coach didn't draw up plays for him. we run an offense that gets shooters shots.

Who else was on Blake's team that might possibly have attracted some of our opponents attention?????

 

[spiderman]

Who else was on Blake's team that might possibly have attracted some of our opponents attention?????

yes, it was a better offensive unit. but nobody's doubling either guy.

Roche is getting up almost the same number of 3's per 40 minutes as he did at the Citadel.
only problem is he's playing half the minutes.

 

[Not-A-Homer]

yes, coach should be on Roche on where and when to move, to cut harder, etc ...
and on Nelson to find the shooter when he draws help.
and on Quinn/Grace to look from him from the high and low posts.
Blake got shots. coach didn't draw up plays for him. we run an offense that gets shooters shots.

I absolutely agree that Mooney should install a couple of plays for Roche. But, one downside to this is that we haven't seen him make a 3 while sitting on the bench all year.

I have also noticed much of what spiderman points out. When he is in the game, Roche stands around too much for his own good in my opinion. He is often immobile outside the 3-point line.

I think that if Roche moved better (hard cuts and finding his way to the open spot when he sees something developing), it would be in his best interest.

Seems that all agree that the team will be better off when they figure this out.

 

[urmite]

What I have noticed is that when someone drives to the hoop Roche is often standing unguarded at the 3 point line directly behind them. Yet even if 2 or 3 defenders are just outside the charge circle the driver rarely looks back.

I know that could leave you stranded standing with the ball down low, but from the stands looks like the best option.

 

[Eight Legger]

Blake was obviously a completely different type of player than Roche is. Coach needs to tailor some opportunities for guys based upon what they excel at. This isn't rocket science. You don't just force everyone's to do the same things as the guys who came before then and hope they eventually figure it out. This is why we routinely underachieve.

 

[8legs1dream]

Blake was obviously a completely different type of player than Roche is. Coach needs to tailor some opportunities for guys based upon what they excel at. This isn't rocket science. You don't just force everyone's to do the same things as the guys who came before then and hope they eventually figure it out. This is why we routinely underachieve.

Exactly. If you have a generational talent from three like Roche you're damn right you should be looking for a way to make it work for him, but what do we know!!!

#M4L

 

[VT4700]

and btw ... Roche is getting shots. he's taken 94 3's. that's only behind Burton.
problem is he's played 329 minutes less than Burton.
he's 7th in minutes.

That's what people don't realize....it's not find more shots while he is out there....they want to blame coaching with this, but Roche averages more 3 attempts per 40 minutes than Blake, than Tyler, than Nick, and most everyone else we have had. He is at 9.4 per 40 minutes, and that is pretry high. If you want to say more minutes, fine, and I have said that a few times, but he is getting attempts when he is out there.

 

[97spiderfan]

Blake is obviously a completely different player than Roche, who could and would frequently create his own shots. Roche is not that which is why it is incumbent upon our coaches to design offensive sets to get one our most valuable offensive weapons more looks.

 

[spider23]

Agree with all. Classic Mooney, cannot deviate from the system to run a play for Roche. Not asking him to scrap the system, but just throw a tweek in here and there. Like it sounds like Boyden has influence on D. Someone tell Boyden to share some plays to free up Roche now and then.

 

[VT4700]

???? It's not " we should run a play for Roche". What part of he averages 9.4 3 attempts per 40 minutes do you not understand? At The Citadel, he was at 9.9, so very little difference. If you want to talk minutes, fine, but he IS getting shots when out there.

 

[spiderman]

???? It's not " we should run a play for Roche". What part of he averages 9.4 3 attempts per 40 minutes do you not understand? At The Citadel, he was at 9.9, so very little difference. If you want to talk minutes, fine, but he IS getting shots when out there.

for perspective, the guy leading the nation in 3 point attempts (Antione Davis) is taking 11.9 three pointers per 40 minutes.

 

[spider23]

???? It's not " we should run a play for Roche". What part of he averages 9.4 3 attempts per 40 minutes do you not understand? At The Citadel, he was at 9.9, so very little difference. If you want to talk minutes, fine, but he IS getting shots when out there.

We talking clean looks bro, not fading from 25. Mooney's fault.

 

[8legs1dream]

We talking clean looks bro, not fading from 25. Mooney's fault.

what would it take for a Mooneyite to admit that their deity has done a single thing wrong?

 

[whampas]

Blake had no problem finding shots from the same position.

Understatement of the year.

 

[97spiderfan]

We used to run the high ball screen for Brothers to get him some open 3 point looks. Haven't watched every single possession this year of us, but can we/have we run similar looks for Roche? If not, why?

 

[spiderman]

We used to run the high ball screen for Brothers to get him some open 3 point looks. Haven't watched every single possession this year of us, but can we/have we run similar looks for Roche? If not, why?

we have. and when the defender goes under the screen or the hedge isn't good, Roche shoots.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Blake was obviously a completely different type of player than Roche is. Coach needs to tailor some opportunities for guys based upon what they excel at. This isn't rocket science. You don't just force everyone's to do the same things as the guys who came before then and hope they eventually figure it out. This is why we routinely underachieve.

Unfortunately what you pointed out is the expectation. That goes hand in hand with our square peg round hole approach to new players replacing graduates.

 

[Ranger1tex]

Grabbed this off the comments in that Frank Martin twitter thread that got linked in the UMass game thread.

A10 O-rating vs Usage

As per this, Roche appears to have the highest offensive rating in the A10, defined as a calculation of points produced per 100 possessions. He has a criminally low usage rate. Usage defined as % of team's offensive possessions that end with a turnover, FG attempt or FT attempt by that player.

Tyler has a high usage rate, one of highest in A10 unsurprisingly, but appears to be above average.

Couple other guys are notable for low rating/high usage.

Get Roche more shots.

How does Nelson look? Hot and cold, mostly cold when it counts . . .

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

UR tonight actually ran a double high ball screen for Roche in the 2nd half. A play that looked nothing at all like the motion offense, it was obviously to get him the shot. He got a clean look, albeit from way out, but left it short.