Maybe if Mooney wasn't so adverse to change, he would have tried some new things, or brought in a fresh voice to help run his defense before this year.
My sources...
- Thread starter spider23
- Start date
Really good post.
1.Our offense is impressive, and usually leads to good, high percentage shots. You are right when saying there are plenty of offenses that look shaky out there and and seem easy to defend. Ours looks hard to defend.
2.I agree he stuck with the match up too long. There were some games where we flat out could not get stops, and when we did, we could not get a defensive rebound. Too many times teams were scoring at will. People on here have said I never criticize our coach, but that is wrong. There were plenty of times when I was frustrated with our defense and rebounding. I had high hopes for our man defense this year, and they did not disappoint.
3. Great point about great kids who are representing our school the right way. I love having guys like this on our team. Some might say who cares, let's just win, but I want to win with these types of kids, and when you factor in the higher ups likely demand this type of guy as well, you have to credit our coach and all our coaches for bringing these types of high character guys here.
I've always said I understand where a lot of the frustration came from. I have always liked and supported Mooney, and I wanted him to return when others didn't, but I said last year it was fair to not want him back. I was in the hope he returns, but I understand if he doesn't mindset. And, I do hope everyone enjoyed this season because it was a special one with a bunch of high character guys playing at a high level with outstanding chemistry. Mooney deserves some credit for this chemistry as well. It's hard keeping everyone happy and motivated when you have some talented guys on the bench and some guys play some inconsistent minutes.
I wonder what everyone will think if we don't make the NCAA tourney next year? Essentially we are all giving Mooney credit for an NCAA year this season - when we were the most bubble of the bubble teams - our guy Lunardi had us out for the ENTIRE Season until the last week, iirc.
I'm all in on we should make the dance next year.
But, based on our standing this year - I don't think it is a slam dunk.
Potential pitfalls:
1) Target on our back, as Ply stated on another thread I believe. We may start with the top 25 target on our back. We will likely have the target of preseason A10 favorite. We have seen how we have notoriously started slow in early OOC. Heck this was our best year on this front, and we were a heartbeat way from losing to STFU and terrible Vandy. Dayton was able to start the season as the underdog and gain some great momentum.
2) Based on our inability all year to get in Lunardi's list - we need to upgrade our schedule a bit. Agree with EL and others, not a huge upgrade (playing at Duke or Kentucky or UVa) but a couple of good P6 teams (Not BC or Vandy TYPES for the coming season). We will need to avoid slip ups, and again other teams (even Vandy types) will be more motivated to get a top25 win.
3) Can Mooney handle the pressure. He did a good job this year - or was it the players. In any case I do think this is a strong willed group of players who can hopefully overcome. But if things do take a dip early, will Mooney turtle?
4) Unknowns, injuries, etc. Should be even deeper, but still in huge trouble if injury to Gilly or Grant for any period of time.
So, as you can see - I do see some obstacles. Every season, we see pre-season top 25 teams fall off the face of the earth, and the Dayton's and SDSU's with no pre-season hype jump in and take there place.
If no NCAA next year, this would be an unprecedented run. I do wish they would have went forward with the NCAA selection. I THINK we would have been in but who knows. That may have taken some pressure off for next year, if we even have a season.
I'm all in on we should make the dance next year.
But, based on our standing this year - I don't think it is a slam dunk.
Potential pitfalls:
1) Target on our back, as Ply stated on another thread I believe. We may start with the top 25 target on our back. We will likely have the target of preseason A10 favorite. We have seen how we have notoriously started slow in early OOC. Heck this was our best year on this front, and we were a heartbeat way from losing to STFU and terrible Vandy. Dayton was able to start the season as the underdog and gain some great momentum.
2) Based on our inability all year to get in Lunardi's list - we need to upgrade our schedule a bit. Agree with EL and others, not a huge upgrade (playing at Duke or Kentucky or UVa) but a couple of good P6 teams (Not BC or Vandy TYPES for the coming season). We will need to avoid slip ups, and again other teams (even Vandy types) will be more motivated to get a top25 win.
3) Can Mooney handle the pressure. He did a good job this year - or was it the players. In any case I do think this is a strong willed group of players who can hopefully overcome. But if things do take a dip early, will Mooney turtle?
4) Unknowns, injuries, etc. Should be even deeper, but still in huge trouble if injury to Gilly or Grant for any period of time.
So, as you can see - I do see some obstacles. Every season, we see pre-season top 25 teams fall off the face of the earth, and the Dayton's and SDSU's with no pre-season hype jump in and take there place.
If no NCAA next year, this would be an unprecedented run. I do wish they would have went forward with the NCAA selection. I THINK we would have been in but who knows. That may have taken some pressure off for next year, if we even have a season.
Great post. Careful with point #2, though. SpiderPlant will label you a "hater" that publicly embarrassed our alma mater.
Ok, since I am called out by name, I'll acquiesce... Please review my posts on this and the billboard thread. I am critical of the billboard, its perps and any poster who is critical of a player for defending his coach. Period. Please, rip Mooney to shreds in this forum...that's what it's for. Argue till you're blue in the face. Write to the AD. Request a meeting with him or Mooney. The public billboard is beyond belief for a classy program like UR and will live forever in infamy. Thanks loads, perps.
And while I realize you may not all be alums, please check your grammar... "wish they would have went forward..."
With a schedule like last years, we are a bubble team again. I don't see where the upgrade is coming from to replace Wisconsin and Auburn. Don't we have return games with BC,Alabama and Vandy? Add in Wake and that is 6 of 13 OOC games and 3 of those are Quad 3&4. If we are a top 25 team as advertised, don't be afraid to play tough teams on the road and win.. We won't be a top 25 team just because this Board declares it so! ,,
Not sure all those have return games but
Bama would need to be 75 or less to be Quad 2 at home
BC & Vandy need to be 135 or less to be Quad 2 away
Not impossible, but quad 2 isn't incredible either.
I don't think we have a return game against Bama. I think we do against BC, but not sure.
BC and Vandy should be better next season, and it helps that they're both on the road.
BC and Vandy should be better next season, and it helps that they're both on the road.
Mooney must be asked to leave. I would think the pro-Mooney posters would feel the same considering the Spiders could be a top 25 team? Probably not! A top 25 or even 40 team that doesn't make the Dance, I suggest underachieving. And not like the first year or it either, just the final straw for me.
I would really enjoy for JOC to ask a question before the season starts like, "Coach, would it be a disappointment for you and a setback for the program if no NCAA bid this year?" Unless a Yes then just another Mooneysque answer.
PS With all of the above stated, I will be ALL IN in backing Coach Mooney's team.
Me too, I really think we will be mentally tough and are obviously very talented. I think only injury or pandemic can stop us next year.
I believe the billboard was a huge mistake, but they took it down quickly when they saw the negative reaction. So let the one without sin thrown the first stone.
I think we are an NCAA team next year, but remember there is always some luck involved for a team at our level, We played several teams without there first or second player. The P6 teams were as weak I have seen in a long time last year.
I think we are an NCAA team next year, but remember there is always some luck involved for a team at our level, We played several teams without there first or second player. The P6 teams were as weak I have seen in a long time last year.
Thanks for the reply. I would absolutely agree, our offense is slick and I rarely feel like we have the scoring droughts that once plagued us. There’s a question in there somewhere about what’s changed that it’s so efficient now when we’ve struggled at some points in the past.
I think the defensive improvement shows two sides of the coin is CMs coaching capability. Certainly he’s capable of implementing a defensive style that’s effective. But the inability to adjust seems to be a major coaching weakness, our D needed to change at least two years ago.
CM recruits good character guys, totally agree. That makes him a good coach if he can win with those guys, it makes him a good steward (?) when we aren’t winning.
As noted repeatedly here, he’ll have next year to demonstrate he can perpetuate success. I hope he does.
Smart analysis. Everything points to next year's UR team being very good.
However, your point about this year's team possibly looking a little stronger BECAUSE of the weakness of the opposition is right on target. Roughly 85% of Spider opponents this season played very poorly. Several commented on this all year.
The question; does overall play improve? We don't know, if so, then it may be a wash. The preseason top 25 talk is based upon the quality of teams in 20/21 being equal to the teams that played in 19/20.
Roughly 85% of Spider opponents this season played very poorly. Several commented on this all year.
Many teams played poorly against Kansas too. Sometimes the quality of team you have makes the other team play poorly, no? Maybe we had something to do with their perceived poor play?
And yes, some teams we played were not at full strength. We were not at full strength for the entire season, either. So it's essentially a wash.
I'm going to be very, very happy with the season we had, and keep the glow for a couple months at least. I'll start to worry about next year when A, we are assured there will be a 20-21 season, and B, if we are going to play, when practice starts.
As always, other's mileage may vary.
Many teams played poorly against Kansas too. Sometimes the quality of team you have makes the other team play poorly, no? Maybe we had something to do with their perceived poor play?
And yes, some teams we played were not at full strength. We were not at full strength for the entire season, either. So it's essentially a wash.
I'm going to be very, very happy with the season we had, and keep the glow for a couple months at least. I'll start to worry about next year when A, we are assured there will be a 20-21 season, and B, if we are going to play, when practice starts.
As always, other's mileage may vary.
Wood Hall: Many teams played poorly against Kansas too. Sometimes the quality of team you have makes the other team play poorly,
Solid point if your team is SO dominant (Kansas) that you completely overwhelm the opponent. Watching the UR games would not lead one to believe this in most cases. Yes, I watched all but 2-3
1 obvious case in point involves the Rhode Island road win. Rhode Island had a decent year. But in that Rhode Island game at Rhode Island, the Rams played like absolute dog shit. If you wish to watch the reply you'll see that it wasn't Kansas that made them play that way. It isn't the only one
My comment was in agreement with URFan1, not bashing a good Spider season.
Solid point if your team is SO dominant (Kansas) that you completely overwhelm the opponent. Watching the UR games would not lead one to believe this in most cases. Yes, I watched all but 2-3
1 obvious case in point involves the Rhode Island road win. Rhode Island had a decent year. But in that Rhode Island game at Rhode Island, the Rams played like absolute dog shit. If you wish to watch the reply you'll see that it wasn't Kansas that made them play that way. It isn't the only one
My comment was in agreement with URFan1, not bashing a good Spider season.
It is very statistically unlikely that 85% of the teams we played against just happened to play 'very poorly' coincidentally. I agree with the Rhode Island game though, they missed so many easy layups, they really did have an off game when we played them on the road.
Rhody is in a bit of trouble I think. Saw them play Dayton on senior night, and they looked even worse - hey maybe there is something to the opponent 
. But they were a poor shooting team, and they seem to have a transfer problem. It's going to be Fatts vs the world next year - and he put his name in for NBA draft. He will likely be back, but if he gets a decent offer for Europe who knows.
. But they were a poor shooting team, and they seem to have a transfer problem. It's going to be Fatts vs the world next year - and he put his name in for NBA draft. He will likely be back, but if he gets a decent offer for Europe who knows.
Rhody is in a bit of trouble I think. Saw them play Dayton on senior night, and they looked even worse - hey maybe there is something to the opponent
Isn't Toppin's brother going to blossom like Obi next season and supercharge Rhody?
Good point, he certainly looks like he could be a super player if he continues on this curve. Still I think they are in a bit of trouble with their roster next year. He got recruited by quite a few A10's, though I am surprised he didn't blow up even more considering Obi. Kind of like surprising with both Steph and especially Seth Curry.
But in that Rhode Island game at Rhode Island, the Rams played like absolute dog shit. If you wish to watch the reply you'll see that it wasn't Kansas that made them play that way. It isn't the only one.
So, even if one believes that 85 percent of our wins were because our opponent played poorly and our play had nothing to do with it (which at face value is absolutely ridiculous), so what?
To some extent, we can't control how the other teams plays. Sometimes an opponent misses an open shot or a layup, or just throws the ball OOB. We can control how we play, by making shots, making free throws, not making unforced turnovers, etc.
And by that metric, we controlled how we played far better than the other teams controlled how they played, by a wide margin.
Of course, there's a much better metric to determine who played better than simply saying, "the other team stunk 85 percent of the time." It's called a scoreboard. And that metric says we played better than the other team in 73 percent (24) of our 33 opportunities.
It's beyond me why so many here are trying so hard to find so many reasons to devalue what was a great season.
So, even if one believes that 85 percent of our wins were because our opponent played poorly and our play had nothing to do with it (which at face value is absolutely ridiculous), so what?
To some extent, we can't control how the other teams plays. Sometimes an opponent misses an open shot or a layup, or just throws the ball OOB. We can control how we play, by making shots, making free throws, not making unforced turnovers, etc.
And by that metric, we controlled how we played far better than the other teams controlled how they played, by a wide margin.
Of course, there's a much better metric to determine who played better than simply saying, "the other team stunk 85 percent of the time." It's called a scoreboard. And that metric says we played better than the other team in 73 percent (24) of our 33 opportunities.
It's beyond me why so many here are trying so hard to find so many reasons to devalue what was a great season.
i think we are sweet 16 next year because Coach will improve defense more i think
X2
If businesses and corporations followed the business model of our basketball program's results and ROI, there would have been a lot of bankrupticies. Surely this set of principles wasn't taught in the Business School at UR. I guess those teachings were just theoretical models found in some outdated textbooks from yesteryear?
Any idea if these guys are any good? If they’re at Maryland must have been decently highly recruited
One was a top 100 recruit out of h.s. I think Cox really needs to stabilize things, even with the high transfer rate across the land, he seems to be a turnstile.
My "sources" who know the twins from their AAU days say the Mom is the problem. Think of the infamous AWIII situation and I think you would be getting the correct "feel" for this situation
that can certainly be the case. there was a 2,000+ point scorer in high school near me who had early D1 offers that all dried up. I asked an AAU guy what the heck happened. Said nobody wanted to deal with the parents.
but coaches will put up with a lot more for 6'10" twins.
but coaches will put up with a lot more for 6'10" twins.
Give the Moon man a 1 year extension at same pay. 2 year ext is absolute max. But better add in a buyout. He has zero leverage. Where's he going. Unless we have an E8 or higher run next season aren't we at about top of what we can reasonably pay anyway. The optics of giving the highest paid employee at UR a big extension with a raise right now are terrible too. This is not a shot at Mooney at all, but we don't want to be hijacked by a contract again. No reason to negotiate against ourselves. Play it very conservative.
Great article by David Teel in the RTD today (which is behind a paywall so no need to link). Article was about revenue for NCAA sports during pandemic taking a hit and how it would send a really nice signal if some of the highest compensated employees of certain universities (i.e. the head men's football and basketball coaches) took paycut this year to perhaps offset some of this revenue hits and possibly save a job or two at these universities. He cited several coaches salaries, including Moon man's 1 million dollar annual golden meal ticket. Will have to see if this happens anywhere.
To the larger point of Mooney's contract extension, it wouldn't be the best PR move to lavish him with a pay bump/extension and then turnaround and layoff other folks at the University or involved in university athletics.
Agree with GKiller, give him a 1 year extension same pay with some university friendly buy out language. And if that happens, Mooney would buy himself some great PR if he did as Teel suggested
