My fear is that decision makers would actually wait that long. Hate to think they’d wait 10 or 11 years AGAIN, but at this stage I have no confidence in them. Prove us wrong.
Mooney to be UR coach next 15 to 20 years
- Thread starter UR80sfan
- Start date
It wouldn't be a fear -- it's simply reality. He will never be fired here. Ever. He will either choose to retire at some point or die. Those are the only two possibilities.
So I’m confused about this discussion, but particularly How Navy lost 5 of last 7, but only 3 of last 16…
I love that you spend so much of your time defending the indefensible. I do appreciate your positive energy and support of the team usually, but you know way too much about this team and situation to not recognize that Mooney is a terrible coach.
For arguments sake and maybe for Plydoggs sanity, could you construct two arguments for us? 1. Why Mooney deserves to be our coach for life. 2. Why we should move on from Mooney and see if we can perform better. Please dedicate an equal amount of time and energy to each argument.
I suspect you will find it easier than you think to support #2. What do you think? Humor me?
BTW, just saw Mike Brey being asked to move on after 24 years at Notre Dame. Please also do a side-by-side comparison of Brey and Mooney’s overall, conference, tournament appearances and tournament record. May even want to add a column to show what Mooney’s record would need to be over next 5 years to match Brey’s current stats.
Thanks!
LOL. Because Richmond is a power conference team and is just like Notre Dame, right?
1. Mooney has done a great job here.
2. I don't think a new coach could do as well as Mooney has.
3. As a result, I would rather have Mooney as our coach.
4. I'm not sure why this opinion of mine is worthy of getting attacked on here everyday, but whatever.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
if you truly think the era of Mooniocrity is the absolute height to which Richmond Basketball can aspire that is one of the most depressing things I have ever seen posted on here
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
impossible. Nobody could achieve that here. Poor little Richmond just has too many things holding us back from such a thing.
No coach will do better than Mooney at 56%? How do you reach this conclusion?
This makes me so sad and angry this type of thinking. Somebody that loves this team as much as many of us yet is blinded by some weird loyalty.
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I think VT's outlook on the program is in line with the administration's. It's the only reason we would continue down the same path for 18 years with such poor results (yes, there are a few seasons that are exceptions). Overall though, winning is not valued at UR. That's why we are not a serious basketball program. Remember the time we were talking about possibly being invited to the Big East? That's long gone now and we are stuck in mediocrity with 3 NCAA tournaments in soon to be 18 full seasons.
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Just focus on the positives (every decade we might make the tournament, we usually beat Duquesne and Fordham, we win most of our home games, sometimes the popcorn at three RC is fresh and occasionally the scoreboard works) and ignore the negatives (we almost never win games we are expected to lose, we only win road games against terrible teams, we typically lose early in the A10 tournament, were spending millions of dollars to be mediocre) and you'll enjoy the ride much more.
You have a point that a new coach COULD be worse than Mooney. A bad hire can devastate a program for years.
Most people that object to this coach could care less about Mooney the person. Most don't know him. I wouldn't care if his name was Smith, Mohammad, or Yang. He isn't called out due to his surname, his gender, his ethnicity, his personality, or his appearance.
The coach is being criticized for his performance (record). He is responsible for the program. His overall stats are not very good, and most competitive people would say that his career performance is not acceptable. I think history will confirm that the overwhelming majority of college basketball coaches who perform at his level are terminated long before 17-years.
You are free to support the 55% winner, 3-18 (including Air Force) NCAA appearances, and 7-23 record against your crosstown rival coach if you choose, but, it should not surprise you that others think UR can do better. The return on investment could be so much more, and it frustrates those who want to see the Spider program consistently perform at a higher level.
There are two types of people . Those that know they can do better and those that don’t think better is possible. Our athletic department is satisfied with our flagship sport. I gave when I thought they cared. When I realized they didn’t, I stopped. Do I still watch? Hell yeah. Will I support them thru a ticket? Hell no
Actually, I did look it up, and that was what it said on Google. Apparently they were mistaken. Sorry. But my point was that he was a very popular coach and liked by players, associates and fans, and shouldn’t have been fired.
My thoughts on Mooney:
1) He is a good coach. My use of good is the “having the qualities required for a particular role” and another suitable word is satisfactory. The problem is good is not great and it Is easy to be good enough.
2) He is a student of the game and has a strong belief in how the game should be played. He gained this appreciation from Coach Carril, who was a brilliant tactician and his offensive was even given a name, the “Princeton offense”.
3) Because of his vast knowledge, he has a system that is much different than what players have traditionally learned throughout their basketball lives and it takes a significant amount of time for the players to learn his system.
4) His players like him because he is a good teacher and they see his love of the game.
There are four positive things about Mooney. The problem is those things are not going to win many championships in the A10 or any league other than perhaps the Ivy or the Patriot league. We have already seen it and it is going to get worse. The college game and its landscape is becoming more and more like the NBA every day. There will be no time to develop players because players can leave and play elsewhere with no delay. There will be the lures of NIL money too. The best mid-major teams are going to be ones where the coach can quickly assemble talented individual players and make them into a quality team. Mooney’s system simply is not equipped for quick change.
1) He is a good coach. My use of good is the “having the qualities required for a particular role” and another suitable word is satisfactory. The problem is good is not great and it Is easy to be good enough.
2) He is a student of the game and has a strong belief in how the game should be played. He gained this appreciation from Coach Carril, who was a brilliant tactician and his offensive was even given a name, the “Princeton offense”.
3) Because of his vast knowledge, he has a system that is much different than what players have traditionally learned throughout their basketball lives and it takes a significant amount of time for the players to learn his system.
4) His players like him because he is a good teacher and they see his love of the game.
There are four positive things about Mooney. The problem is those things are not going to win many championships in the A10 or any league other than perhaps the Ivy or the Patriot league. We have already seen it and it is going to get worse. The college game and its landscape is becoming more and more like the NBA every day. There will be no time to develop players because players can leave and play elsewhere with no delay. There will be the lures of NIL money too. The best mid-major teams are going to be ones where the coach can quickly assemble talented individual players and make them into a quality team. Mooney’s system simply is not equipped for quick change.
In the last 20 years, what have the schools in our conference accomplished? How many final 4s, elite 8s, sweet 16s, etc. I don’t think our 1 sweet 16 and another round of 32 are all that impressive in comparison. Perhaps top 55%. I don’t think having accomplishments similar to our conference mates is an unreasonable expectation. Obviously the decision makers disagree.
This is a more balanced approached than many of us are suggesting in our frustration. Agree with almost all of this post.
This is solid. I have a similar but slightly different take. Practice coach / Game coach.
Mooney is a good coach of basketball, the game, to players.
Players generally improve and are - usually - very solid with fundamentals. They become better basketball players and play roles pretty well. He's good at the concepts of basketball and teaching them.
Mooney is a one of the most average/mediocre coaches of basketball, the game, to be played and won on the court.
The execution of the game in actuality is successful 55% of the time. There are 3 coaching tenures of data to support this, and we're in what I'd consider a 4th now, going by 5 year cycles (using 4 year graduation cycles plus a redshirt/transfer in year on the front end of each.) Zero regular season A10 titles - I believe 13 different A10 coaches have won regular season titles in the league during his tenure at 10 different schools.
He doesn't adapt quickly during games (if at all), uses a system so predicated on passing that most players never look at the hoop when they receive the ball (count the number of pump fakes we employ on offense each game) which allows aggressive teams to play the expected passes nonstop, and has a questionable grasp on rotations, game flow and understanding who is playing best at a given moment.
Mooney is a great FT shooter (Fordham and Duquesne) and an awful 3 point shooter (VCU).
To follow up my previous post about the program being in its 4th cycle under Moon, here are the three previous cycles:
1st 6 year cycle (aka Geriot cycle) - Winning % .562
This is Year 1 through Geriot's graduation. I extended it to 6 years bc year 1 was a massive program overhaul year to give Moon the benefit of his first recruiting class (which included Geriot) going all the way through to graduation.
2 NCAAs, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Geriot, Anderson, Harper, Gonzalvez, Butler, Brothers.
Note: NCAAs were in years 5 and 6 of the cycle.
2nd 5 year cycle - Winning % .548
5 years for a graduation cycle plus a redshirt/transfer in year.
0 NCAAs, 0 A10 Tournament titles, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Lindsay, Brothers, Anthony, Allen, Jones, Cline.
Note: 1st team left out of NCAAs in year 4 of the cycle.
3rd 6 year cycle (aka Golden/Sherod cycle) - Winning %.570
Extended to 6 years bc of COVID shortened year extended the graduation cycle by a year.
1 NCAA, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Cline, Jones, Buckingham, Sherod, Fore, Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, Burton.
Note: NCAA was in year 6 of the cycle.
4th cycle - started this year - Current winning % .550
1st 6 year cycle (aka Geriot cycle) - Winning % .562
This is Year 1 through Geriot's graduation. I extended it to 6 years bc year 1 was a massive program overhaul year to give Moon the benefit of his first recruiting class (which included Geriot) going all the way through to graduation.
2 NCAAs, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Geriot, Anderson, Harper, Gonzalvez, Butler, Brothers.
Note: NCAAs were in years 5 and 6 of the cycle.
2nd 5 year cycle - Winning % .548
5 years for a graduation cycle plus a redshirt/transfer in year.
0 NCAAs, 0 A10 Tournament titles, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Lindsay, Brothers, Anthony, Allen, Jones, Cline.
Note: 1st team left out of NCAAs in year 4 of the cycle.
3rd 6 year cycle (aka Golden/Sherod cycle) - Winning %.570
Extended to 6 years bc of COVID shortened year extended the graduation cycle by a year.
1 NCAA, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Cline, Jones, Buckingham, Sherod, Fore, Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, Burton.
Note: NCAA was in year 6 of the cycle.
4th cycle - started this year - Current winning % .550
Why does my opinion make you sad and angry? Seriously? It's an opinion I have, someone you don't even know. Can't you disagree without being sad and angry?
I won’t speak for LIS but it makes me bummed because your approach reflects what the administration seemingly feels, and they make the decisions.
It’s not really about you in that regard, you just give voice to a very tepid way of viewing our program potential.
Actually Mooney is insane, because he does the same thing and expects different results.
Power on 4700!
Power on 4700!
“most players never look at the hoop when they receive the ball”- exactly! Most of the Spiders’ passing is unproductive for scoring. This plan of just passing seems to be aimed at running down the shot clock. I really don’t understand spending 95% of a possession just passing the ball to pass the ball and not with the purpose of scoring.
Two Final Fours that I know of, VCU & GMU. Not sure how many 8s, maybe St. Joe's? I think Davidson was in the Southern Conference with Steph, not sure.
We've outperformed at least half the conference since 2003, with three NCAA wins. We certainly ran in the upper half in overall and A-10 wins and with three NCAA berths. Yes, we should have done more.
College basketball has really changed since 2003. Even the best A-10 teams simply don't have the talent for a Final Four run. To me, an A-10 (or similar/lower conference) team making the Sweet 16 is our Final Four.
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This is a losing argument. Mooney is dragging the conference down the crapper with him. Mountain West has 5 teams top 50 kenpom, A10s highest is Dayton at 61.
Truthers can spin all day finding SRS, RPI, VD or what ever, but Mooney's teams do jot pass the smell or eye test. Depend on having mid 20s 6th year players to have success. Often fade in biggest spots.
Truthers can spin all day finding SRS, RPI, VD or what ever, but Mooney's teams do jot pass the smell or eye test. Depend on having mid 20s 6th year players to have success. Often fade in biggest spots.
He can't win unless he has 6th year players? 24-7 with no seniors is not successful? Oh, I'm sorry. I forgot. 24-7 never happened. The board has officially erased it. My mistake.
You are harping on one year. This is the year that was set up for him to shine and prove his coaching ability, so far has been in line with the large sample size.
And you are ignoring a year, like most everyone on here. And, it was a recent year, unlike the theme on here that goes farther back than that. Actually, nearly everyone ignores 2 of the 3 most recent seasons while focusing on 4+ years ago. Pretty much every post on here feels like it is pre 2020, and we are coming off of losing seasons.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Fresh, hot off of Friday night 11 and 9. I guess next year we won't be looking back at 24-7 and 2020 will fade into the background and blend in with 55% lifetime achievement.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
oh no, the Mooneyites will hold 24-7 in great reverence until the end of time
No I am not, just reiterating that I think the body of his work is that if he has a bunch of 4 or 5 year all time seniors, he has a good shot to make a run at NCAA's. If anything is a little off, he does not have the coaching chops of a DT or JB to make it work and over acheive. I actually think we have some good pieces this season but it is not working - yet. I do think one mistake is that he did just turn the keys over to Jaynel. I have full confidence that jaynel will have a very nice career here, but we could have used a play now - 1 year transfer to help in portal.
23, I'll add an assist to the statsheet here. Just copy/paste this. It says it all, includes the 2020 season and contextualizes it:
1st 6 year cycle (aka Geriot cycle) - Winning % .562
This is Year 1 through Geriot's graduation. I extended it to 6 years bc year 1 was a massive program overhaul year to give Moon the benefit of his first recruiting class (which included Geriot) going all the way through to graduation.
2 NCAAs, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Geriot, Anderson, Harper, Gonzalvez, Butler, Brothers.
Note: NCAAs were in years 5 and 6 of the cycle.
2nd 5 year cycle - Winning % .548
5 years for a graduation cycle plus a redshirt/transfer in year.
0 NCAAs, 0 A10 Tournament titles, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Lindsay, Brothers, Anthony, Allen, Jones, Cline.
Note: 1st team left out of NCAAs in year 4 of the cycle.
3rd 6 year cycle (aka Golden/Sherod cycle) - Winning %.570
Extended to 6 years bc of COVID shortened year extended the graduation cycle by a year.
1 NCAA, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Cline, Jones, Buckingham, Sherod, Fore, Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, Burton.
Note: NCAA was in year 6 of the cycle.
4th cycle - started this year - Current winning % .550
1st 6 year cycle (aka Geriot cycle) - Winning % .562
This is Year 1 through Geriot's graduation. I extended it to 6 years bc year 1 was a massive program overhaul year to give Moon the benefit of his first recruiting class (which included Geriot) going all the way through to graduation.
2 NCAAs, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Geriot, Anderson, Harper, Gonzalvez, Butler, Brothers.
Note: NCAAs were in years 5 and 6 of the cycle.
2nd 5 year cycle - Winning % .548
5 years for a graduation cycle plus a redshirt/transfer in year.
0 NCAAs, 0 A10 Tournament titles, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Lindsay, Brothers, Anthony, Allen, Jones, Cline.
Note: 1st team left out of NCAAs in year 4 of the cycle.
3rd 6 year cycle (aka Golden/Sherod cycle) - Winning %.570
Extended to 6 years bc of COVID shortened year extended the graduation cycle by a year.
1 NCAA, 1 A10 Tournament title, 0 A10 Regular Season titles.
Key players: Cline, Jones, Buckingham, Sherod, Fore, Golden, Gilyard, Cayo, Burton.
Note: NCAA was in year 6 of the cycle.
4th cycle - started this year - Current winning % .550
Hang one from the rafters…..24-7 banner, the new beginning
