Mayers pitching well, close game late
- Thread starter SpiderVol
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From games I've watched, we don't have closers. We need to also have a pitcher or two who don't need a couple of innings to get their stuff going. Our team usually generates enough hits and runs, but if you can't count on one or two guys to get you those last 3 outs, you're going to lose many more than you win. It's demoralizing, particularly at home.
Very disappointing loss after another great pitching performance from Mayers.
I hope coach only took him out in the 8th because of pitch count. Jake singled in the 8th and after an RBI single he advanced to 2nd with 2 outs. Then they decided to pinch run for Jake. He isn't fast but with a 2 run lead and the prospect of him closing out another complete game should have been enough to keep him on the base paths. Unless of course he had already exceeded his max pitch count. He Maffet was coming in no matter what I understand the move. If not then I question taking out you best pitcher for the slim chance of getting one more insurance run.
I hope coach only took him out in the 8th because of pitch count. Jake singled in the 8th and after an RBI single he advanced to 2nd with 2 outs. Then they decided to pinch run for Jake. He isn't fast but with a 2 run lead and the prospect of him closing out another complete game should have been enough to keep him on the base paths. Unless of course he had already exceeded his max pitch count. He Maffet was coming in no matter what I understand the move. If not then I question taking out you best pitcher for the slim chance of getting one more insurance run.
Very difficult game...even without the disaster of the last inning...too many runners left on. Jake pitched a great game....but without solid closers we need a lot more than a two run lead when he comes out of the game. Maffett has done well this year..yesterday was not his day...just have to wonder why it took so long to pull him...especially in the ninth. It seemed like we were just waiting for someone to warm up while we watched GW run the bases. Can't we just have a few ready?
I would not be surprised if he hit 140 the day he pitched a 10 inning complete game. In fact that really isn't that bad. A lot of well known baseball gurus have actually come put to say it is really pitch count per inning and not game that is important.
If Mayers threw 140 pitches over 10 innings he was only throwing a healthy 14 pitches per inning. Most experts say If a pitcher stays between 12-18 pitches per inning…and doesn’t show observable signs of fatigue that he has the game as long as he wants it.
There is an article that talks about this and sited an example of Nolan Ryan and Lius Tiant pitching against each other in a 15 inning game in 1971. Ryan threw 244 pitches over 15 innings and Tiant threw 189 pitches that game and neither impacted the rest of their seasons. The key was that they never threw more than 17-18 pitches per inning.
The reason pitches per inning is more important is a that you typically get 10-20 mins to rest between innings. If you can stay around 15 pitches and then rest and then do that over and over you should stay pretty fresh. The problem becomes when you get around 25 pitches inn the inning and your arm gets really fatigued. There is far greater. Hence of injury when you are throwing with a tired arm.
Not saying that pitch count isn't important but it depends on a number of factors.
As a HS pitcher I can remember having no issues when I threw well over 100 pitches over 8+ innings. The games I was the sorest the next day was when I struggled and threw a lot of pitches in only a few innings. If I was deep in an inning my coach would always come out to check on me and tell me to shift my mechanics. I was a smaller pitcher who threw hard but mostly from my arm motion not my lower body. If I got tired during an inning I would protect my arm by shortening my delivery and arm motion. It would drop my fastball down 3-5 MPH and I would focus more on hitting the corners.
If Mayers threw 140 pitches over 10 innings he was only throwing a healthy 14 pitches per inning. Most experts say If a pitcher stays between 12-18 pitches per inning…and doesn’t show observable signs of fatigue that he has the game as long as he wants it.
There is an article that talks about this and sited an example of Nolan Ryan and Lius Tiant pitching against each other in a 15 inning game in 1971. Ryan threw 244 pitches over 15 innings and Tiant threw 189 pitches that game and neither impacted the rest of their seasons. The key was that they never threw more than 17-18 pitches per inning.
The reason pitches per inning is more important is a that you typically get 10-20 mins to rest between innings. If you can stay around 15 pitches and then rest and then do that over and over you should stay pretty fresh. The problem becomes when you get around 25 pitches inn the inning and your arm gets really fatigued. There is far greater. Hence of injury when you are throwing with a tired arm.
Not saying that pitch count isn't important but it depends on a number of factors.
As a HS pitcher I can remember having no issues when I threw well over 100 pitches over 8+ innings. The games I was the sorest the next day was when I struggled and threw a lot of pitches in only a few innings. If I was deep in an inning my coach would always come out to check on me and tell me to shift my mechanics. I was a smaller pitcher who threw hard but mostly from my arm motion not my lower body. If I got tired during an inning I would protect my arm by shortening my delivery and arm motion. It would drop my fastball down 3-5 MPH and I would focus more on hitting the corners.
From games I've watched, we don't have closers. We need to also have a pitcher or two who don't need a couple of innings to get their stuff going. Our team usually generates enough hits and runs, but if you can't count on one or two guys to get you those last 3 outs, you're going to lose many more than you win. It's demoralizing, particularly at home.
BINGO!! This is the problem. It needs to find a closer with consistent stuff. Have not found one yet....
Stay patient. Team is working its way out of a funk/swoon/slump. These things happen to all teams, ours is just happening early. If we can shore up the bullpen, this team will go places. The next 6 conference games are entirely winnable.
The interesting thing about the A10 this season is just getting to the tourney will be enough, seeds will be irrelevant. Just be hot at the right time. True, we have to get there, but if we win 7-8 more conference games out of twelve, we should get there (even if we go 7-5). In the tourney, no one will be unbeatable. So buckle your helmets!!
BTW, Zink is a BEAST.
This post was edited on 4/16 8:39 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:39 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:43 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:44 AM by Tarantula'sDad
BINGO!! This is the problem. It needs to find a closer with consistent stuff. Have not found one yet....
Stay patient. Team is working its way out of a funk/swoon/slump. These things happen to all teams, ours is just happening early. If we can shore up the bullpen, this team will go places. The next 6 conference games are entirely winnable.
The interesting thing about the A10 this season is just getting to the tourney will be enough, seeds will be irrelevant. Just be hot at the right time. True, we have to get there, but if we win 7-8 more conference games out of twelve, we should get there (even if we go 7-5). In the tourney, no one will be unbeatable. So buckle your helmets!!
BTW, Zink is a BEAST.
This post was edited on 4/16 8:39 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:39 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:43 AM by Tarantula'sDad
This post was edited on 4/16 8:44 AM by Tarantula'sDad
Vol, and also the 6 warmup pitches per inning. Norris Eastman when discussing pitching from his kinestic point of view used to use Luziana Lightning as an example of how to properly throw using your body and not your arm. 140 pitches/game is going to catch up to you. The Nats pulled Strausburg at 100 in his last game and that move has been debated by the 'pundits'. The Nats are looking to a long season.
Curious how "in the day" didn't hear of pitchers having Tommy John surgery, etc. Pitchers routinely threw 100-130 pitches per game and didn't have such pitch count restrictions. Don't know if today's rash of arm problems emanates from weight training, poor mechanics, or something else. Just seems that with such a cautious approach to handling pitchers we are seeing more arm problems than in the past.
IMHO, more pitching injuries occur from poor training regimens or bad mechanics, than from throwing too many pitches. Nolan Ryan would agree. His pitching philosophy at the Texas Rangers is to routinely throw 120+ pitches a game throughout the season, as he did. It is what you do off the field that really counts.
As for our relievers' struggles, it is between the ears more than anything. For some reason, not one guy can consistently come in and start getting outs. Our starting pitching is excellent, however, when you consider that we are starting 2 freshmen on the weekend and a sophomore during the week.
As for our relievers' struggles, it is between the ears more than anything. For some reason, not one guy can consistently come in and start getting outs. Our starting pitching is excellent, however, when you consider that we are starting 2 freshmen on the weekend and a sophomore during the week.
72, when I was coaching 15-18 year olds, some were playing for more than my team. Our league was under LL auspices and had an enforced pitch count and rest day number. Another league had an inning limit. Some kids tried to throw breaking balls every pitch. They were removed. Some of these kids would pitch both. If I knew they had pitched outside our league parameters, I would not let them pitch. And these kids wondered why their arms were dead at the end of the season. Crazy parents.
One observation was that it allowed the kids to see their own limit on throws.
One of the more famous pitch counts that went one pitch too many Pedro Martinez-what he at 97? Certainly does depend on mechanics, body build and in shape. Nolan Ryan is an exception. 72 do you recall a pitch count and do recall your sustained speed on the fastball?
One observation was that it allowed the kids to see their own limit on throws.
One of the more famous pitch counts that went one pitch too many Pedro Martinez-what he at 97? Certainly does depend on mechanics, body build and in shape. Nolan Ryan is an exception. 72 do you recall a pitch count and do recall your sustained speed on the fastball?
most times, not even pitch count, the managers have a set pattern now and bring in relievers because that is what makes them comfortable. read an article in sports illustrated a few months ago about a pitcher who was just drafted from california and he believes in "long-throwing", in the outfield throwing long distances and working hard at it and this guy kind of took a shot at stausberg of the nats who has been babied since he was drafted. this guy said that some baseball people are now looking at what he is doing and maybe at least thinking it might be OK rather than just nuking it. specialization has changed most team games over the past decades.
Gen'Homer, long throwing was a pitching drill we used but dont know the extent to which your guy was throwing. At some point you need to get back to practicing what you play. Whatever they did with Straus seems to have worked. Worth watching his games.
There was NYY manager (Billy)or Oakland mgr that burned through his young pitching staff one year or more. Rarely took them out and set the franchise back.
There was NYY manager (Billy)or Oakland mgr that burned through his young pitching staff one year or more. Rarely took them out and set the franchise back.
according to this kid, major league people thought that what he was doing was crazy but are now thinking a bit differently. we will see about straus, babied and hurt right out of the gate and had to have surgery. he has shown flashes but remains to be seen whether he can withstand 30-40 starts. have been to a couple of braves games after reading this article and noticed that the pitchers are out there throwing long balls but not sure if this is something new or they have been doing this for a while. will also be interesting to see how this kid's career goes with his regimen, believe the diamondbacks drafted him and knew about his deal and thought it was OK.
Noid, in my day I never had a pitch count, nor had a coach who obsessed on pitch counts. We emphasized leg work and strength training for the legs, including much running, both distance and sprints. Many pitchers today pitch more upright and don't pitch with their legs, hence more arm strain. My fastball at times reached mid-90's. I remember once pitching 15 1/3 innings in a pony league all-star game in West Point that ended at 12:30 a.m. (the game went 19 innings and ended in a tie). Got home around 2 a.m. And slept to noon. Was so sore all over that I could barely get out of bed. My arm was ok but I was sore everywhere else.
all that means is that you are old and i am older. probably early in the season, skipper is apt to pull a guy with a pitch count but think the main reason is all the guys in the bullpen, just too easy to yank a guy and send in a middle or short relief guy, just how the game is played today. did we even have closers back in you day 72?
Not really. Starters were expected to complete the game they started; didn't always work out that way but that was the thought process. Just had relievers who worked any time, middle relief, or short relief. I always felt, and my pitching buddies felt the same way, that if you didn't pitch a complete game the performance was somehow diminished. Today if you go 5 innings it is considered a success for a starter. This is even true in the bigs. Don't like it but agree that's just the way it is.
attended the baylor vs oklahoma football game last fall and each time the sooners got inside the 10 yard line they pulled landry jones and put in a 6'6", 245lb qb to run the ball in which he did each time on the first play. we live in an era of specialization, whether on offense or defense or pitching. guess tennis and golf could be excluded.....now coming in to putt for bubba watson, larry wright......
'72 I remember that mentality. Kicked around and found this began to change in early 70's when they began to adjust stats to recognize relievers. The first recognizable name I saw associated with this was Sparky Lyle. Then at some point the AL took pitchers away from home plate, resulting in pitching in the AL being more difficult.
Re: Pitching limits
'72 do you recall kids with serious arm injuries when you were playing?
High School
'72 do you recall kids with serious arm injuries when you were playing?
High School
No. Of all the pitchers I pitched with and against I don't remember any serious injuries like we see too frequently today. We all had sore arms from time to time, sometimes had to take cortisone shots, but never structural problems requiring surgery. Saw the article in RTD. While I applaud the powers at be looking out for the safety of athletes, I find the pitch counts and inning limitations a bit overprotective.
I agree on pitch counts and innings limitations--how are you supposed to build up your endurance and arm strength without pitching enough? IN my entire run up from t-ball all the way through HS and Babe Ruth I never saw anyone blow out their arm or hurt themselves.
Is Jake hurt?
Richmond Baseball @SpiderBaseball
Sophomore Andrew Brockett (0-7) gets the Friday start for the Spiders as UR is juggling some injuries in the weekend rotation.
Richmond Baseball @SpiderBaseball
Sophomore Andrew Brockett (0-7) gets the Friday start for the Spiders as UR is juggling some injuries in the weekend rotation.
