Agree, 23. Wouldn't surprise me at all if Odom gets a better PG sooner rather than later. And, both bigs very well could be so similar that they can't play together. I would be a little concerned if I were VCU. They can talk these team loaded guys up all they want, but they only averaged a combined 14 PPG last season, and all 4 are coming off of very disappointing seasons.
Jason Nelson Enters Transfer Portal, Commits to VCU
- Thread starter MDspider8
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Agree. I hope he is their starting PG and plays a lot. That would be a big drop off from VCU PGs we have played against in the past. This does not bother me at all. We lost a guy who saw the writing on the wall here. There wasn't going to be a lot of time for him moving forward. He got benched last year when he was pretty much the only PG we had. That should tell you all you need to know.
I don’t disagree on the most part, and to be fair it’s probably because I don’t have inside access to the program, but watching one of our best young players walk out the door to our biggest rival hurts, and my blame naturally goes to Mooney and not being able to keep that player.
I hope I’m wrong, and Mooney/coaches did everything they could, and that the reasoning is that Jaynel didn’t like the competition from Dji or incoming guards, or just didn’t like the mid season demotion. But at the moment I can’t get passed a talented player going 5 miles down the road…
I'm becoming a villain on this board and I'm here to embrace my role.
used to be you sat a year transferring anywhere, and say TWO years to transfer within the conference (so nobody transferred within the conference).
The Kevin Durant effect. Has to be a smack in the face to the guys on the team that battled alongside him
I’m sad more about Marcus leaving than the other news of the day …
Dark clouds may come at night but joy will come in the morning! We must be patient.
lol at that one. Heck we should have 20 times the motivation w all the junk spewed about UR. Wish we'd try outside motivation against vcu bc it doesn't come from Mooney.
Look at it this way - its not a bad bet by Nelson. He was not all that impressive as the season went on at UR. I think most would argue he declined rather than improved. Final stats of 8 points on 36% shooting and 30% from 3 with basically a 1-1 assist to turnover ratio. Nothing to get too excited about. So if he does the same or worse at VCU - then basically it just shows what he showed at UR, maybe he is not an A10 level player. BUT - if he goes to VCU and improves, plays better and helps them win - then does it mean it was the system, the style, the coaching, etc to get the best out of him?
I thought he would be a good player for UR when the season started and was excited to see him grow as I hoped he would get better and better as season went on, but that didn't happen. Now that he has transferred, I would normally wish him the best - but since he transferred to VCU - I hope he never gets off the bench.
I thought he would be a good player for UR when the season started and was excited to see him grow as I hoped he would get better and better as season went on, but that didn't happen. Now that he has transferred, I would normally wish him the best - but since he transferred to VCU - I hope he never gets off the bench.
I agree and guess what life gets harder after college not easier, so one best learn some lessons early on.
One thing is certain in my mind - Nelson wasn’t having any fun playing for the Spiders. That guy looked pissed every time he came off the court even if he deserved to sit. Didn’t seem like an overly supportive teammate either, but then again most of the players seem less than enthusiastic. The one exception of course was Marcus and it is very disappointing to see him decide to take the portal route.
It will be interesting to see if Nelson changes his attitude playing for the Broad St boys. Two potentially good things for him are he is going to a team building from the ground up and obviously he will be familiar with a good number of the newly assembled players. If he can’t be happy in that situation then he probably won’t be happy anywhere.
Hopefully the Spiders can land some top local talent in the near future because it is fun to support players with local ties (being the native that I am).
I think part of the key to the great point guard play we’ve had since Kevin Anderson (sorry Ryan Butler, love you, mean it) is that we’ve overlapped them so we were able to have a junior/senior pg. The years we had a freshman/sophomore pg we weren’t good. I mean, we’ve never had a non-junior/senior pg in the Mooney era that has lead us to a winning record (besides Kevin Anderson).
The fact that we expected differently last year from Dji and JayNel, in hindsight, was unrealistic from a Mooney team standpoint.
2007-2008 (16-15) - Kevin Anderson (fr)
2008-2009 (20-16) - Kevin Anderson (soph)
2009-2010 (26-9) - Kevin Anderson (jr)
2010-2011 (29-8) - Kevin Anderson (sr), Cedric Lindsay (fr)
2011-2012 (16-16) - Cedric Lindsay (soph), Kendall Anthony (fr)
2012-2013 (19-15) - Cedric Lindsay (jr), Kendall Anthony (soph)
2013-2014 (19-14) - Cedric Lindsay (sr), Kendall Anthony (jr), Shawndre Jones (fr)
2014-2015 (21-14) - Kendall Anthony (sr), Shawndre Jones (soph)
2015-2016 (16-16) - Shawndre Jones (jr)
2016-2017 (22-13) - Shawndre Jones (sr)
2017-2018 (12-20) - Jacob Gilyard (fr)
2018-2019 (13-20) - Jacob Gilyard (soph)
2019-2020 (24-7) - Jacob Gilyard (jr)
2020-2021 (14-9) - Jacob Gilyard (sr)
2021-2022 (24-13) - Jacob Gilyard (sr*), Dji Bailey (fr)
2022-2023 (15-18) - Dji Bailey (soph), Jayson Nelson (fr)
The fact that we expected differently last year from Dji and JayNel, in hindsight, was unrealistic from a Mooney team standpoint.
2007-2008 (16-15) - Kevin Anderson (fr)
2008-2009 (20-16) - Kevin Anderson (soph)
2009-2010 (26-9) - Kevin Anderson (jr)
2010-2011 (29-8) - Kevin Anderson (sr), Cedric Lindsay (fr)
2011-2012 (16-16) - Cedric Lindsay (soph), Kendall Anthony (fr)
2012-2013 (19-15) - Cedric Lindsay (jr), Kendall Anthony (soph)
2013-2014 (19-14) - Cedric Lindsay (sr), Kendall Anthony (jr), Shawndre Jones (fr)
2014-2015 (21-14) - Kendall Anthony (sr), Shawndre Jones (soph)
2015-2016 (16-16) - Shawndre Jones (jr)
2016-2017 (22-13) - Shawndre Jones (sr)
2017-2018 (12-20) - Jacob Gilyard (fr)
2018-2019 (13-20) - Jacob Gilyard (soph)
2019-2020 (24-7) - Jacob Gilyard (jr)
2020-2021 (14-9) - Jacob Gilyard (sr)
2021-2022 (24-13) - Jacob Gilyard (sr*), Dji Bailey (fr)
2022-2023 (15-18) - Dji Bailey (soph), Jayson Nelson (fr)
The above post is a good one. My question is if it's a "Freshman/Sophomore" thing or a "Time in the system" thing?
Given the brave new world of constantly turning over your roster, we need Juniors/Seniors/Graduate transfers to be able to pick up our system immediately.
Given the brave new world of constantly turning over your roster, we need Juniors/Seniors/Graduate transfers to be able to pick up our system immediately.
Great question. I hope it’s just a jr/sr thing but I guess we haven’t seen yet if a transfer pg can immediately run Mooney’s system.
I know I have posted this before, and others on this board have agreed. IT IS BASKETBALL, not rocket science. This was the big Mooneyism on defense for years when it was figured out by the A10 - the notion that the guys always needed another year to learn the defensive system. Like the defense was rocket science or brain surgery on the moon (pun only partially intended). For any basketball play, there are only so many options. Put guys in space an let them make plays. I don't think our offense is bad, but I do think many of the guys that we had this year were not looking to make plays (Goose, Dji) and the one's that were were not able to or not good enough - i.e Nelson, Randolph.
So my prediction is that Mr. Jordan King (give him no. 23) will do just fine on offense in this oh so complicated offense.
So my prediction is that Mr. Jordan King (give him no. 23) will do just fine on offense in this oh so complicated offense.
If the system takes multiple years to learn, the system is a dinosaur, plain and simple, and we will only ever luck our way into major success in this new era of college basketball.
that's what 23 is saying ... the system doesn't take years to learn. that's a myth.
the old defense was complicated and required a ton of communication. now we play pretty standard man. yeah, there are decisions on when to switch or not but it's pretty basic.
and they offense isn't complicated either.
I think it’s pretty apparent Nelson was told he wasn’t going to be handed the starting job again and bailed. Didn’t want to compete for minutes.
The freshman/sophomore thing above is interesting, but I’m not sure how accurate. It’s putting the success of the entire team on the shoulders of just the PG. I wasn’t around to watch before 2016, but I don’t remember ever doubting if Gilyard could play or not his freshman or sophomore year. The guy was obviously a stud. His first two years we happened to have very young teams/injuries/no depth. I’d put the lack of success more on those factors than the PG play
The freshman/sophomore thing above is interesting, but I’m not sure how accurate. It’s putting the success of the entire team on the shoulders of just the PG. I wasn’t around to watch before 2016, but I don’t remember ever doubting if Gilyard could play or not his freshman or sophomore year. The guy was obviously a stud. His first two years we happened to have very young teams/injuries/no depth. I’d put the lack of success more on those factors than the PG play
It's on the coach if every single post of yours is about how much you think the coach sucks.
The defense changed, I know that, but we are still running the same offense that we've been told takes multiple years to master – we just didn't run it very well last year. I am a proponent of getting away from that offense and just playing basketball. Nelson will be a good barometer of whether it was our system or him last year.
I agree, especially if Smith can play as a PG with Mooney not wanting a substantial amount of minutes playing with two small guards. He did see the writing on the wall and didn’t want to fight for a spot.
Whatever his dad says it’s all on him and his son not Mooney. Like I think SDad stated, they’ve been in the area during Mooney’s tenure, they knew what his system wanted from a point guard. And nobody can say Mooney doesn’t know how to get the best out of a PG.
It’s just scary seeing everything Odom is doing in such a short time. Hopefully it doesn’t work out but if it does I assume he will have pick of HS talent in the Richmond area. And lol we might see Nelson Sr on the VCU payroll. Remember Gary D when Merritt came here.
I expect Nelson will get better. most freshmen get better. and he was coming off 2 years of not competing with Covid and the redshirt.
but in the 1st 6 games of last year, Nelson scored in double figures 5 times and was averaging 15.6 ppg and 4.8 apg against very strong competition in this supposedly intricate offense. he wasn't shooting at a high rate, but he was productive.
it went downhill from there. as someone mention, he looked frustrated and not having fun. he was still getting playing time. maybe he was frustrated with the offense, or with Mooney, or with losing, or with teammates, or with the school, or with his own play ... who knows. but the system wasn't too complicated at the start of the year, and historically it's very favorable to PGs.
Just one of those kids that's pissed at the world. Glad he is gone, he was a cancer to the team. He fits at VCU nicely.
Eh. In those first 6 games I’d say the UNI game he was good, a couple others he was okay (had one hot stretch of offense vs Cuse early 2nd half but before that I was watching him get lit up with no answer) and the other games was mostly inefficient. He got points but for example VMI was 13 on 10 shots, that type of thing and that was one of his ok games in that stretch. Turnovers and defense were always issues, they just got more pronounced later in the year.
I was referring to ManiBenton, not you. As in, he thinks it's coach's fault because he thinks everything that happens in the world that is bad is Chris Mooney's fault.
wouldn't shock me tbh
Sadly, my most lasting memory of his time with us is the excessive dribbling. I actually do like our offensive scheme for the most part. But it's definitely important to make quick decisions and keep the ball moving, and things got very stagnant with the ball in his hands time and time again last year.
And as others have pointed out, things seemed to stay the same or even get worse as the year went on. The excuse of not playing competitive ball for 2 years makes sense, but then it seemed like we should have seen him on the upswing as the year closed out, instead of sputtering to the finish like we did.
In the end it may just be a square peg/round hole situation and he thrives in another program. I just wish he hadn't chosen to go the dark side...
And as others have pointed out, things seemed to stay the same or even get worse as the year went on. The excuse of not playing competitive ball for 2 years makes sense, but then it seemed like we should have seen him on the upswing as the year closed out, instead of sputtering to the finish like we did.
In the end it may just be a square peg/round hole situation and he thrives in another program. I just wish he hadn't chosen to go the dark side...
Agreed. He could not initiate the offense in many games. The Syracuse game and the VCU game stood out to me. Another lasting memory is the SLU game when he stood under our basket on multiple out of bounds plays and just SLU get an easy lay-ups. Nelson scored 17 points that game and if you just look at the box score, you would be like, man he had a great game. But if you watched, you saw not only just standing still in out of bounds players, but getting absolutely owned on the defensive end of the court by Yuri Collins. They went after Nelson, time and time again that game.
I think Nelson has all of the potential in the world, but what I saw from his mental make-up this year, would give me grave concerns having him be the guy running our offense the next 3 years. Maybe Odom fixes that and if so great for Nelson and VCU, but I saw multiple red flags this season that it wasn't going to be match here at Richmond with Mooney.
He did nothing. Just the uncle coddling his nephew. Trying to deflect blame instead of owning up to Jason's shortcomings. Anectdotal I know, but the first time I saw Anderson, Lindsay, Shawndre, Anthony and Gilyard I saw greatness. Obviously they would get better but the skill sets were evident from day one. Can't say I saw that with Jaynel. He may prove me wrong but he, as a first year point guard, was not at the same level as the others.
Don' know the uncle, did meet his dad who is a very nice man. Tyrone for whatever reason wants to spill some vitroil as Jason makes his Spider exit. Counterproductive.
Tyrone is a good man, just too emotionally invested with this particular situation. No reason to pick a fight here. He should have kept those thoughts to himself.
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