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Fire the whole team

After every loss, I can't help but think about this article:

theathletic.com

Richmond's Chris Mooney brought the Spiders back to winning

Spiders fans were once losing patience with Mooney, but he has Richmond poised as the A-10 favorite to make the NCAA Tournament.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

(For those who don't subscribe, Brennan in November 2020 basically mocking this board for doubting Mooney.)
 
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SFspidur said:
After every loss, I can't help but think about this article:

theathletic.com

Richmond's Chris Mooney brought the Spiders back to winning

Spiders fans were once losing patience with Mooney, but he has Richmond poised as the A-10 favorite to make the NCAA Tournament.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

(For those who don't subscribe, Brennan in November 2020 basically mocking this board for doubting Mooney.)
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First line of first comment...
"Mooney, McKillop and Schmidt are gems the A10 should be proud to have."
 
SpiderTrap said:
We all need to realize as fans that the school does not care about athletics, especially basketball, as much as we all care.

Some common themes on this thread.

1) Fire Mooney - Mooney is under contract through 23-24 season.
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Did I miss where we extended CM to 2024?
 
SFspidur said:
There was a big red flag on the recruiting front when we couldn't leverage our Sweet Sixteen appearance...in the three years following that, we only managed to land three players who amounted to anything...Allen, SDJ, and Fore. That was when we had the best chance to take things to the next level, and we completely flopped.
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Was also when we just did a massive renovation to our arena. Should have had momentum, but just fell flat.
 
Trap, if we follow your logic, we would never-ever fire a coach. A coach and his agent and never going to allow his contract to go down to last year, because they would argue (quite logically) that you can't recruit well with an expiring contract.

Firing a coach with only 2 years left on a contract is actually a pretty good situation to be in, if you ever had to fire a coach. Cause I guarantee you, if he isn't fired this offseason, his agent is going to after Hardt for an extension.
 
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ur2K said:
Was also when we just did a massive renovation to our arena. Should have had momentum, but just fell flat.
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Don't forget the practice facility that was holding us back as well. Now that is built and yet Mooney still misses out on his primary target. It's weird that no one has ever once said, hmmm, maybe the coach has something to do with all of this.

But Mooney sure smiles pretty for the camera, so that is all we need here.
 
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97spiderfan said:
Don't forget the practice facility that was holding us back as well. Now that is built and yet Mooney still misses out on his primary target. It's weird that no one has ever once said, hmmm, maybe the coach has something to do with all of this.

But Mooney sure smiles pretty for the camera, so that is all we need here.
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Also, the admin and academic requirements were holding us down. And 80sFan was nice enough to let us know he had a little chat with PQ, and that is not a problem now. But maybe PQ is out of favor now, and the admin is trying to make us lose at hoops to get back at PQ via Mooney. Too many twists.
 
97spiderfan said:
Trap, if we follow your logic, we would never-ever fire a coach. A coach and his agent and never going to allow his contract to go down to last year, because they would argue (quite logically) that you can't recruit well with an expiring contract.

Firing a coach with only 2 years left on a contract is actually a pretty good situation to be in, if you ever had to fire a coach. Cause I guarantee you, if he isn't fired this offseason, his agent is going to after Hardt for an extension.
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his agent can certainly ask for an extension. and we can say no. it's not like the agent has any leverage here.
 
My favorite was when we did not have an AD, and the interim gave him a contract extension. Maybe we should steal the URI fans moniker of CFL (coach for life) they used for Jim Baron. Hell, Mooney's run here is going to be twice that of Baron's.

I nominate DCFL - Double Coach for Life
 
As ridiculous as it sounds, I think it is much more likely CM is extended than fired regardless of the record this year. Yes, he's not going to meet our expectations for this year or most of our expectations for the program ever. But as many have said, UR has different expectations than we do of the coach and program. Winning is not the objective. And while I think Hardt is weak, I'm not sure he could dismiss a coach even if he wanted to. This is why it's extremely hard to really care about Spider Athletics. We care more than the school about seeing UR Athletics win.
 
Yep, B that is the case. It's a shame. I think our model should be get the up and coming coach every 4-5 years. Two years ago that guy would have been Wes Miller - who I was advocating for. This would have been perfect spot for him before going to next level. Sometimes that up and comer will fail. OK, you have invested 3 years (instead of wasting every one's time for 17 years) and you get the next one.

I am latching on to my kids schools, fun to have more schools to watch. Picked up a power conference school this year, with a pretty exciting football hire to boot :)
 
One of the fallouts from what appears will end up as a disappointing season is recruits will look at us and see that with such an experienced team couldn't close the deal. They will connect the dots and see they lead to the head chair of the program.
 
97spiderfan said:
Trap, if we follow your logic, we would never-ever fire a coach. A coach and his agent and never going to allow his contract to go down to last year, because they would argue (quite logically) that you can't recruit well with an expiring contract.

Firing a coach with only 2 years left on a contract is actually a pretty good situation to be in, if you ever had to fire a coach. Cause I guarantee you, if he isn't fired this offseason, his agent is going to after Hardt for an extension.
Click to expand...
Its not my logic - its the logic of UR. I agree - getting rid of him with only 2 years on the deal is a steal. I said this before and will say it again. If your willing to pay someone 1 million a year for 10 years, in the back of your mind you have to be willing to pay 3-4 million to get out of that deal. It was like UR bought a brand new sports car, but when it broke down - it couldn't afford the repairs. If that is the case - you don't offer 10 years at 1 million. You offer what your comfortable with.
But in reality - we all know UR has the money. That is not the issue. The issue is sports are not a priority, therefore - I don't see them firing him and I don't see them paying him 2 million not to coach. Plus - I still think this team can win 18+ games and probably make the NIT. That is competing and that is all the school wants.
 
SpiderTrap said:
Its not my logic - its the logic of UR. I agree - getting rid of him with only 2 years on the deal is a steal. I said this before and will say it again. If your willing to pay someone 1 million a year for 10 years, in the back of your mind you have to be willing to pay 3-4 million to get out of that deal. It was like UR bought a brand new sports car, but when it broke down - it couldn't afford the repairs. If that is the case - you don't offer 10 years at 1 million. You offer what your comfortable with.
But in reality - we all know UR has the money. That is not the issue. The issue is sports are not a priority, therefore - I don't see them firing him and I don't see them paying him 2 million not to coach. Plus - I still think this team can win 18+ games and probably make the NIT. That is competing and that is all the school wants.
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They should fire him and hire someone for $150k a year then. Probably would come out ahead financially anyway, because the new assistants would be making much less than the current ones.
 
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Eight Legger said:
Still a chance that Hardt, despite the fool he seems to be otherwise, negotiated the extension in such a way that we don't need to pay the full amount as a buyout if we fire him. The school had all the leverage at the time he got the extension.
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cue the posters who say buyouts don’t exist. Now if the argument is Hardt’s a fool for not putting a buyout in on extension well that I could buy. It would have been a colossal screw up not to given the leverage as u said.

worst fear is they bring him back with decreased pay. Even tho our school’s financials r strong. Of course Richmond isn’t transparent with contracts anyway. But we’ve seen that happen too with coaches at other schools.
 
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SFspidur said:
Apparently you did. We extended him for two additional years in summer 2020 after our imaginary NCAA bid, locking him up through the 2023–24 season. Can't let him get away.
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that we probably have an extremely favorable exit clause written in there. If not, Hardt would actually vie for Worst Spider AD Ever.

I must have intentionally forgotten this because it's so idiotic.
 
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SFspidur said:
After every loss, I can't help but think about this article:

theathletic.com

Richmond's Chris Mooney brought the Spiders back to winning

Spiders fans were once losing patience with Mooney, but he has Richmond poised as the A-10 favorite to make the NCAA Tournament.
theathletic.com theathletic.com

(For those who don't subscribe, Brennan in November 2020 basically mocking this board for doubting Mooney.)
Click to expand...

& mortal lock I’m sure a follow up tweet or article will be coming! Lol.
 
If people want Mooney gone this year (assuming we don't make the tourney), it is going to require trench warfare. It will require something public that is embarrassing to the University. That is the only thing they are going to respond to. Mild dissatisfaction from alumni and season ticket holders, Hardt is adept at handling that easily, via press release (See Huesman example from a few weeks ago). The admin carry bury their heads in the sand with the best of them, but if they get some negative PR as a result, they will have to react.
 
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97spiderfan said:
If people want Mooney gone this year (assuming we don't make the tourney), it is going to require trench warfare. It will require something public that is embarrassing to the University. That is the only thing they are going to respond to. Mild dissatisfaction from alumni and season ticket holders, Hardt is adept at handling that easily, via press release (See Huesman example from a few weeks ago). The admin carry bury their heads in the sand with the best of them, but if they get some negative PR as a result, they will have to react.
Click to expand...
I think we’ve been down this road, and the billboard had the opposite effect and helped the university circled the wagons instead of bringing change…
 
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Why would Mooney adjust the buyout clause with the extension? He could have just simply sat there and said - fine, don't extend me - but I know your not going to fire me - so either way, I will get paid - and without the extension, our recruiting will suffer and your digging yourself a bigger hole for when you do fire me or when my contract expires. I think Mooney had leverage as well. Plus - he might have been betting that most of the guys return, so if you don't extend me now - the price will only increase if we make the NCAA in the next year or two.
So while it is possible the buyout is less - I think it is also possible the buyout is just the same as it was.
 
The only real leverage Mooney would have had would have been if a higher-level school was trying to hire him for more money. Neither was going to happen. There was no reason to give him an extension that wasn't written completely in our favor. If it turns out Hardt didn't write it completely in our favor, he should be fired for gross negligence and professional malfeasance
 
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SpiderTrap said:
Why would Mooney adjust the buyout clause with the extension? He could have just simply sat there and said - fine, don't extend me - but I know your not going to fire me - so either way, I will get paid - and without the extension, our recruiting will suffer and your digging yourself a bigger hole for when you do fire me or when my contract expires. I think Mooney had leverage as well. Plus - he might have been betting that most of the guys return, so if you don't extend me now - the price will only increase if we make the NCAA in the next year or two.
So while it is possible the buyout is less - I think it is also possible the buyout is just the same as it was.
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I think you’re giving him way too much credit for leverage. He has zero leverage. No ncaa berth recently. Expensive contract with any number of adequate replacements at half the cost. Total newbies for a quarter of the price who are committed to academics are also out there. Any above scenario fits with the presumption ur doesn’t care about athletic success.

His only leverage is if PQ is in his corner maybe?
 
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Eight Legger said:
The only real leverage Mooney would have had would have been if a higher-level school was trying to hire him for more money. Neither was going to happen. There was no reason to give him an extension that wasn't written completely in our favor. If it turns out Hardt didn't write it completely in our favor, he should be fired for gross negligence and professional malfeasance
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Exactly. He had gone 9 seasons without NCAA at that point and was not very far removed from back to back 20 win losses AND still had TWO years on his contract at that point anyway. We even had the Covid excuse to buy time and nobody would have flinched. Any mildly competent AD would work in a buyout. Now we have a complete boob of an AD, Mooney is certainly a lot smarter than Hardt too, & Mooney called the extension process "simple". So I don't think anyone is claiming this is how it went down. But come on this should be AD 101 stuff. No revisionist history either, many of us were clamoring for no extension or if u absolutely had to do it, a buyout was imperative. Also this extension was done in Sept 2020 long after the players were all coming back.
 
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I think Mooney had more leverage than you think. He knows UR has the money to buy him out at any time, he just knows they DON'T WANT to do that. And I am sure him and his agent would tell Hardt - we won't reduce our buyout and if you can either buy us out (which he knows the school won't do) or let me coach on 2 year expiring contract, and not only will recruiting suffer you will dig a bigger hole for the program when and if you fire me, but any head coach looking to replace me will see how you operate here and how athletics is not a priority and will pass on this opening. So tell me again - why would Mooney agree to lower his buyout? To stay at UR an extra 2 years for less guaranteed money.

If I were Mooney, I would tell Hardt I will agree to lower buyout, but only if I get a guarantee on the back end if I make NCAA tourney - I get extension and big raise, or if I win 20 games, I get extension and smaller raise - and buyout goes away when this extension is up in 2 years.

Otherwise - you can either fire me and pay me my millions today. Or let me coach on expiring contract and see what that does to the program long term and how that effects your new coach search.
 
SpiderTrap said:
I think Mooney had more leverage than you think. He knows UR has the money to buy him out at any time, he just knows they DON'T WANT to do that. And I am sure him and his agent would tell Hardt - we won't reduce our buyout and if you can either buy us out (which he knows the school won't do) or let me coach on 2 year expiring contract, and not only will recruiting suffer you will dig a bigger hole for the program when and if you fire me, but any head coach looking to replace me will see how you operate here and how athletics is not a priority and will pass on this opening. So tell me again - why would Mooney agree to lower his buyout? To stay at UR an extra 2 years for less guaranteed money.

If I were Mooney, I would tell Hardt I will agree to lower buyout, but only if I get a guarantee on the back end if I make NCAA tourney - I get extension and big raise, or if I win 20 games, I get extension and smaller raise - and buyout goes away when this extension is up in 2 years.

Otherwise - you can either fire me and pay me my millions today. Or let me coach on expiring contract and see what that does to the program long term and how that effects your new coach search.
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I think all of the above is reliant on a belief that UR actually cares about athletic performance which we all seem to conclude they do not. So again, I don’t think these things matter that much to whoever is striking the deal.
 
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MrTbone said:
I think all of the above is reliant on a belief that UR actually cares about athletic performance which we all seem to conclude they do not. So again, I don’t think these things matter that much to whoever is striking the deal.
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Seems it mattered to Delaware, but not us.
 
Agreed - the leverage Mooney has is the fact he knows UR doesn't care that much and does not want to pay a buyout. If they did - they likely would have fired and paid him already. So if he knows your not going to fire him with his current buyout - why adjust it? The school then reaps the negatives of not extending him and letting his contract run out - as recruiting will suffer and the next coach will not be very excited to jump on board with Hardt.

Delaware - very interesting. They are either really invested in Football, as Rocco was coach of the year just last year OR Rocco had some issues with the administration behind closed doors. But I give them credit - not scared to make the decision, pay the guy and move on.
 
Trap - hurt our next coach hiring...that was a reason? Sorry gotta completely disagree there. Now working with Hardt would certainly give people pause just ask anyone who has, but otherwise who wouldn't want our job. The current coach is on year 17 with 2 ncaa appearances, is 7-20 vs his rival, has never finished 1st in league ever, we could go on & on. You get more patience than anywhere else, you get paid 7 figures +, u get great facilities, good basketball history, little pressure, get simple extensions whenever u ask, good place to live, charter to all games. And u take us to NCAA u get a fanbase that will love u considering the long ass drought we're in.

This is the cushiest gig in the country, they would be lining up. Next year, last year, 4 years ago, doesn't matter.
 
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UR is ranked 318th rebound margin at -6 per game

VCU is ranked 334th at -7 per game.
 
SpiderTrap said:
Agreed - the leverage Mooney has is the fact he knows UR doesn't care that much and does not want to pay a buyout. If they did - they likely would have fired and paid him already. So if he knows your not going to fire him with his current buyout - why adjust it? The school then reaps the negatives of not extending him and letting his contract run out - as recruiting will suffer and the next coach will not be very excited to jump on board with Hardt.
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Here’s the problem with your logic. If they don’t care about winning, they shouldn’t care about recruiting suffering (which I still find to be suspect as a theory).

It’s hard for me to accept that he has that leverage and that it matters a ton when there are so many other things working against him.
 
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Where is TJK now ?? He could take over for Coach like Painter did at Purdue when Keady left after coaching there for 125 years
 
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Va Tech and UVA threw out their trash this month. Richmond still has their trash.
 
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