Fire Mooney
- Thread starter URWilk110
- Start date
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
I really hope we aren't trying to positively compare Moonpie to McKillop. In the time that we have had him running our rudderless ship McKillop has taken Davidson to the Big Dance SEVEN times. And guess what, it wasn't all because of Steph Curry.
Head to head battles I don't think mean a whole lot when the opposing team, like Davidson is better overall during that time period. During our NCAA drought - they have made the NCAA toureny 4 times and NIT 3 times. Where we have only made the NIT twice. So I think its pretty safe to say McKillop is doing a better job.
I think the reason we have success against them is because they are not usually an overly athletic team and they don't pressure on defense. So they let us run our sets with little resistance. And they usually don't have a physical team or presence inside. So we match up well. Its nice that we win the head to head - but I rather lose the head to head and make the tourney.
I think the reason we have success against them is because they are not usually an overly athletic team and they don't pressure on defense. So they let us run our sets with little resistance. And they usually don't have a physical team or presence inside. So we match up well. Its nice that we win the head to head - but I rather lose the head to head and make the tourney.
8legs........Didn't do your homework!! 5 of 7 NCAA's where from weak Southrn Conference. After joinng A10, 2 appearances.
Also worth noting, with 7 appearances, Coach McKillop teams have only advanced beyond 1st round ONE time! Same as Mooney .
7 tournament appearances sounds really nice. I haven’t even experienced one and I graduated 5 years ago...
Don't worry everything is fine. Going to win the next game. Everyone will calm down for a few days. Next week lose to someone real bad. Look over my shoulder. Still see the same coach and staff run this program. Compete keep it close. Fall a bit short. Repeat.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
apparently you didn't do your reading homework in elementary school, I said since Moonpie has been our coach McKillop has lead his teams to the NCAA's seven times which is true and has nothing to do conference.
Would probably take Mooney another 30 years of coaching here to reach that number. But please, don't let that stop you from cheering on the mediocrity. Get your red and blue pom-poms out!
8legs wrong again!! Southern Conference has been pitifully weak....McKillop coached Davidson 9 years before his 1st NCAA appearance and just one more in the next 6 years....believe that is a total of 2 in 15 years! Most of those 15 years attendance averaged about 1500 to 2000 before Steph played....I was there. Yep Curry delivered the brass ring in coaching and went to NCAA 3 more times before joining A10 and Coach McKillop even with Curry still owns only ONE first round with 7 appearances! Both are great coaches at small academic schools!
Something to consider: even if a conference is weak (as you state) the coaching staff has to be doing a lot of things right to dominate year-after-year. The same team isn't coming out on top regularly by accident at any level.
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
all truth there. and besides what is more desirable for an athletic program and it's fanbase having tons of March Madness trips in a "lesser conference" or having none in a "better conference"
Also consider: It's actually tougher to make the NCAA from a one-bid league than it is from a multi-bid league like the A10.
Only on here is 2 > 7 and Sweet Sixteen > Elite Eight.
X2
And BTW - are we overlooking the benefits of halftime such as dancing dogs and the baby race? Aren't they value added? Don't they mean anything? Can we have that discussion?
Heck McKillop finished 1st in A10 - something Mooney has never done going on 16 years - in his very first year from that "pitifully weak" conference. That's weird. Davidson puts a lot less $ into basketball then we do and they have stricter academic requirements. Arguing that Mooney results r equal or better than McKillops feels like more Big Hat No Cattle.
If Mooney had 7 NCAA appearances - even if they were all first round exits - this thread would not exist.
I can't believe this is even a debate:
Accomplishments and honors
vs
Accomplishments and honors
I can't believe this is even a debate:
Accomplishments and honors
Championships
11 SoCon regular season (1996, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2005, 2007–2009, 2012–2014)
7 SoCon Tournament (1998, 2002, 2006–2008, 2012, 2013)
13 SoCon division (1996–1998, 2001–2005, 2007–2009, 2012, 2013)
A-10 regular season (2015)
A-10 Tournament (2018)
Awards
Clair Bee Coach of the Year Award (2008)
NABC Coach of the Year (2008)
8× SoCon Coach of the Year (1994, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2005, 2007, 2012, 2013)
A-10 Coach of the Year (2015)
vs
Accomplishments and honors
Championships
A-10 Tournament (2011)
Speaking of halftime entertainment.
I think we've been cursed since the monkey riding a dog "incident" on the floor of the RC.
Or maybe since we had a player (who was out sick for the game) win a Simon Says contest during a tournament game in Pittsburgh.
McKillop clearly has a better resume than Mooney. but I don't watch Davidson ... except when they play Richmond. and it seems pretty much every time they do, Richmond wins. so I haven't witnessed this coaching brilliance that I read about.
I don't know why the rest of the A10 doesn't have as much success against McKillop as Mooney does. but I bet McKillop thinks Mooney is a heck of a coach.
I don't know why the rest of the A10 doesn't have as much success against McKillop as Mooney does. but I bet McKillop thinks Mooney is a heck of a coach.
Bob McKillop is 7-8 against Richmond in his tenure at Davidson. Against all other schools he is 592-360.
Call me crazy, but I’m going to make my determination of his ability based on the 952 game sample size and not the 15 game sample size.
Also a fun but unrelated to McKillop stat, from 1961-1972 we played Davidson 27 times. We won once. One time. They went 26-1 against us over a span of 12 years.
The famous/infamous Lefty Driesell was Davidson coach from 60 -69 followed by Terry Holland. We had some of those - hold the ball most of the game low scoring events - against them during that time.
This is quite simply not true, below are the stats to back it up.
The lowest amount Davidson scored during that 27 game stretch was 52 points. They scored 80+ points in 20 of those 27 games so I had to dispel that they simply held the ball and had low scoring events. They scored more points during that stretch than they have the past decade
Steph Curry with 60 points I take that any day. I agree Davidson is a very small school. So finding success isn't that easy.
I have heard before that Bob Mckillop was a candidate for the Richmond job many years ago but for whatever reason a guy named Chris Mooney ended up becoming the head coach. Just imagine if that hire went the other way. We may have even had Steph Curry at Richmond instead of Davidson. All because of that coaching hire we are in a very different place than where we could be and should be.
No but Miller could have hired him instead of Wainwright. Which he absolutely should have. Would have been a great transition after Beilein. We were interested at Mooney time but issue was his son was playing for him at that time. It was going to be his senior year & he wanted to see that thru.
1) Curry would have been denied admission - so that is a pipe dream.
2) I was okay with the Wainwright hire - where it went south is that Wainwright tried to use his 2004 NCAA appearance to push the recruiting envelope (something we talk about on this board daily) and the school said NO. So that right there tells you where the school stands on lowering admissions for basketball players.
One path I always wonder what would have happened had been hiring Mike Winiecki after Wainwright left. He was Wainwrights top assistant and didn't go with him to Depaul and I always thought with him being an UR guy and he had a good resume as assistant up to that point - he would have been a good option. But we can play this WHAT IF game all day.
2) I was okay with the Wainwright hire - where it went south is that Wainwright tried to use his 2004 NCAA appearance to push the recruiting envelope (something we talk about on this board daily) and the school said NO. So that right there tells you where the school stands on lowering admissions for basketball players.
One path I always wonder what would have happened had been hiring Mike Winiecki after Wainwright left. He was Wainwrights top assistant and didn't go with him to Depaul and I always thought with him being an UR guy and he had a good resume as assistant up to that point - he would have been a good option. But we can play this WHAT IF game all day.
Trap, Curry would have been denied admission at UR? We may have stricter admission standards than rest of A10, but not Davidson. If he got in there he'd get into UR. I think he was a pretty good student too.
I like Winiecki but I think the top assistant stuff was just longevity and in name only. We all know Ole Jer viewed Gary Decesare as that. He didn't go to Depaul not by choice but because his boy Ole Jer screwed him by making his son Scott an assistant even though he had no business being one. Seems pretty strange you take your entire staff except your "top assistant" & make your Dir of Ops son assistant instead. He was left out to dry.
Saying Curry would not be admitted had a bit of sarcasm to it. But we will never know if Curry would have been admitted. Stranger things have happened.
JW did leave Winiecki out to dry in order to promote his son. No doubt about that. But Winiecki did play under Tarrant, then was a grad assistant under him - and then was JW assistant along with Brownwell - who went to Wright State and Clemson (along with Winiecki after UR stint). And anyone who went and watched practices under JW knows for sure that Wineicki was the main coach of that team in terms of running practice and the day to day with the players, especially the big guys.
It all worked out for Winiecki - which is good, he had a good run with Brownwell and I think is now an assistant coach in the G-League for the Magic.
JW did leave Winiecki out to dry in order to promote his son. No doubt about that. But Winiecki did play under Tarrant, then was a grad assistant under him - and then was JW assistant along with Brownwell - who went to Wright State and Clemson (along with Winiecki after UR stint). And anyone who went and watched practices under JW knows for sure that Wineicki was the main coach of that team in terms of running practice and the day to day with the players, especially the big guys.
It all worked out for Winiecki - which is good, he had a good run with Brownwell and I think is now an assistant coach in the G-League for the Magic.
I don't think he's a coach with G-League Magic anymore, he's been back in Richmond area. It might have been a Covid thing after they shut down. G League I heard was starting back up here but I'm not sure. Perhaps he'll be back with them if they do.
You may be right. But if he is in town and we always talk about our big guys needing improvement - why not bring him back to UR? Or at least give him a look.
Volunteer assistant coach working with bigs sure why not. But I guess it's a question for Mooney. Winiecki worked a game on radio for us...
<shrug> Some teams are just bad matchups for others - even others that are clearly more successful overall. It happens in every sport.
I mean, if H2H against Davidson is so important to our program, we should just put a clause in Mooney's contract that it is extended until McKillop retires.
I have said this many times before in terms of expectations and it relates to head to head. Our team should have 3 goals each season.
1) Make NCAA tourney
2) Win A10 regular season and/or A10 Tourney
3 Beat VCU
1 and 2 go together. If we are in position to make the NCAA from an at-large perspective, then we are probably in very good position to win the A10 regular season our tourney. OR - if we are not in position for at-large bid, but win the A10 tourney - we secure a bid. And 1 and 2 are most important. Beating VCU - since they are our rival, only really comes into play if we don't succeed at 1 or 2. If we make the NCAA tourney each year, but lose to VCU - I am okay with that. But if we are not making the NCAA, not near the top of A10, AND losing to VCU - then bad position.
Davidson is not our rival - so not concerned with them. Although they might be close to us in terms of academics and recruiting - this is a no brainer, that McKillop had done a better job over the same time frame Mooney has been at UR. One reason I think this has happened - recruiting and Davidson's use of foreign pipeline to fill out roster. McKillop seems to be very good at getting 1-2 stud players (Curry, Aldridge, Grady just to name a few) then surrounding with very capable role players who are ready to go when needed. Something that I think helps prevent them having multiple rebuild years in a row.
1) Make NCAA tourney
2) Win A10 regular season and/or A10 Tourney
3 Beat VCU
1 and 2 go together. If we are in position to make the NCAA from an at-large perspective, then we are probably in very good position to win the A10 regular season our tourney. OR - if we are not in position for at-large bid, but win the A10 tourney - we secure a bid. And 1 and 2 are most important. Beating VCU - since they are our rival, only really comes into play if we don't succeed at 1 or 2. If we make the NCAA tourney each year, but lose to VCU - I am okay with that. But if we are not making the NCAA, not near the top of A10, AND losing to VCU - then bad position.
Davidson is not our rival - so not concerned with them. Although they might be close to us in terms of academics and recruiting - this is a no brainer, that McKillop had done a better job over the same time frame Mooney has been at UR. One reason I think this has happened - recruiting and Davidson's use of foreign pipeline to fill out roster. McKillop seems to be very good at getting 1-2 stud players (Curry, Aldridge, Grady just to name a few) then surrounding with very capable role players who are ready to go when needed. Something that I think helps prevent them having multiple rebuild years in a row.
definitely need a big man coach. the one we have is only a 3 time all a10 selection and one his way to being a top 10 scorer in the country.
the other inside guy is basically shooting 60+ percent from field and is approaching 1000 points
must the 3rd "big guy"....NBA potential.
Yep, bring him on---definitely underacehieving....
Burton's NBA potential is as a wing. Great opportunity. Hopefully Mooney's lack of recruiting does not force him to be a big next year, that is a concern I have. I know Sman thinks that will be the case, and unless Mooney can woo some immediate front court help transfers, it is likely the case. I think that will impact his potential a bit on the wing, so really hoping Mooney can step it up after missing on our top PF prospects and Weir washing out so soon.
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