Darren Buchanan - 2022 Offer

VT4700

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Thanks for the heads up, SF. You cannot carry over any official visits from junior year, correct? So, if he has already visited JMU, he only has four left, and considering he's heard from a lot of BCS schools, I would think he would want to make sure he picks the right ones for that.
 

VT4700

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there's no way Buchanan turned down an official visit offer to go unofficial to Pitt. I can't believe I even had to type that.
Yes, you didn't have to type that. No one said he did, but how can you be so sure anyway? My point was unofficial visits are common and does not mean a school does not have a lot of interest in you. Buchanan is getting a lot of interest, so if he wants to visit a lot of schools as he said, he shouldn't just get all of his official visits out of the way right away, so whether Pitt offered an official visit or "only" an unofficial visit, many times it is a player's decision to take an unofficial visit anyway.

Look at it this way. If you were him, and you heard from several schools, including some BCS schools, and some of these schools might be talking to you more than others and showing a lot more interest than others, do you just agree to take an official visit from a school just because it is a BCS school? I am not saying Pitt made him an official visit offer, but maybe Pitt just started talking to him, and he has a good idea of the other schools he wants to visit. Maybe Pitt is outside the top ten if he has a top ten list right now of schools to go to. Why would it be so unrealistic to turn down an official visit offer from Pitt? Again, not saying he did, but my point is it does happen.
 

SFspidur

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Correct, visits do not carry over, so he only has four left this year.

Not sure how much P6 interest he's getting at this point outside of Pitt. Most of his other offers at that level were a year ago and I haven't seen mention of those schools recently, so things may have cooled with them.

He had mentioned recently that Butler, Ohio State, and Tech were talking to him, but no concrete signs that things are progressing toward offers from them.
 

spiderman

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Why would it be so unrealistic to turn down an official visit offer from Pitt? Again, not saying he did, but my point is it does happen.
anything is possible. it's just not very realistic in my opinion. getting offered an official visit is an honor. a school is willing to pay for you to come see them. it absolutely shows a level of interest way beyond an offer to visit unofficially.

if a player has a bunch offers to visit or expects them, he does have to carefully pick and choose which to go to. but if the highest level program talking to you offers it, you jump. you don't accept an official visit to JMU and then turn down Pitt.
 

VT4700

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I hear what you are saying, but everyone is different. You are assuming that every recruit feels the way you do about this. They don't. Kind of like when some kids decide to stay in school when they could leave early and make millions. Most people would say how can you turn down millions? So, yes, maybe a lot of recruits who have mostly mid major offers would take an official visit to any BCS school, but as I said earlier, maybe he's not crazy about Pittsburgh, but wants to at least check it out, and maybe he has a good idea of the other schools he wants to visit officially, or maybe he has enough confidence in his game or has heard from enough BCS schools that he thinks he will have a chance at an official visit to a BCS school or two in the next few months.

He will be narrowing his list down soon. Maybe Pitt will be on it, maybe they won't. But, it's very possible he has already narrowed down his list in his mind, and has already made up his mind who he wants to visit. So, if that's the case, there's no reason to use an official visit on Pittsburgh if they are not high on his list. And, I am only using him and Pitt as an example. Of course, maybe Pitt did not offer an official visit, but that does not mean my hypothetical with him and Pitt does not happen with numerous recruits around the country. But, no worries, we can just disagree on this one.
 

SFspidur

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Buchanan seems to have a core of six schools on him, and we’re in the mix. Cut list coming soon and a commitment not too much after that.

 
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spiderman

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what do you think this means:

“It is kind of like, I feel like they want me there, but they still have their plan as well,” he added. “I definitely feel the love from Coach Capel and Coach Brown, and all of the other coaches on staff, but I guess it is just a work in progress.”

does that sound like his offer is conditional? like hang on until we hear from Farrell and Nguimbi? what else can that mean, that they have their plan and it's a work in progress?
 

spiderman

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ok, here's a ridiculous hypothetical.

we've got 1 spot to fill. that assumes Grace, Sal, and Goose come back. if any don't, we're active in the late market likely for transfers.

or ... what if the dream scenario hits where both Hunger and Buchanan choose UR? you absolutely take them, right? they certainly fit. Luke can play 5 or 4. Darren can play 4 or 3. but taking both means there's not a spot for one of the 3 super seniors if they want to return. we don't normally operate like that. not sure we would. but I'd think we have to consider it in this case. these two are too good.
 
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SFspidur

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Yeah, especially since it's a special situation where Grace, Sal, and Goose would be using an extra year. Kinda different than taking a spot away from a current guy in normal times.

Mooney always publicly says discussions about stuff like this don't happen until after the season, but I feel like you kind of have to at briefly have that discussion with the seniors at this point. If any of them are already a definite no on returning, that makes recruiting easier to plan for. And then there's the more difficult possibility of "we might not have a spot for you."
 
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spider23

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I was thinking the same thing here, would be great to land Buchanan and Hunger. As much as this is not Mooney's MO, with the bloated roster and unusual circumstances this is a different year. Would be great to get both, kind of doubtful it will happen but if both want to come it would be terrible to have to turn one away.
 

VT4700

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what do you think this means:

“It is kind of like, I feel like they want me there, but they still have their plan as well,” he added. “I definitely feel the love from Coach Capel and Coach Brown, and all of the other coaches on staff, but I guess it is just a work in progress.”

does that sound like his offer is conditional? like hang on until we hear from Farrell and Nguimbi? what else can that mean, that they have their plan and it's a work in progress?
Sounds to me like they want him to redshirt freshman year.
 

VT4700

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ok, here's a ridiculous hypothetical.

we've got 1 spot to fill. that assumes Grace, Sal, and Goose come back. if any don't, we're active in the late market likely for transfers.

or ... what if the dream scenario hits where both Hunger and Buchanan choose UR? you absolutely take them, right? they certainly fit. Luke can play 5 or 4. Darren can play 4 or 3. but taking both means there's not a spot for one of the 3 super seniors if they want to return. we don't normally operate like that. not sure we would. but I'd think we have to consider it in this case. these two are too good.
If all three want to stay, they stay. I wouldn't want to run a program where you offer kids, accept kids, and then tell them to move on. We ask all the recruits to be committed to the program, so I would commit to them.
That being said, I would also be very honest with them. A lot of players play a few minutes here and there the first few years, and then expect to play a lot their senior years. If a lot of playing time is not going to be there for any them, then it makes sense to sit them down, let them know, and see if they might want to grad transfer elsewhere for more playing time. So, let's say Matt is going to be the guy to replace Grant next year and be the starter. Maybe Sal would rather find a school where he can play 20+ minutes his final year?
 

spiderman

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If all three want to stay, they stay. I wouldn't want to run a program where you offer kids, accept kids, and then tell them to move on. We ask all the recruits to be committed to the program, so I would commit to them.
we committed to them for 4 years. I don't know if a 5th year ride is a reasonable expectation. to lose a Hunger or Buchanan because a senior MIGHT want to come back is a steep price.

we tell Mooney "win or you'll be fired". I'd try to land both on the assumption that someone doesn't come back and either grad transfers or goes to Europe. heck, Burton could declare for all I know. if everyone wants to come back, it would be a tough conversation with someone. that's a risk I'll take ... from my keyboard. but I'm not Mooney. tougher to make that call as the head coach. but Hunger and Buchanan won't wait until May.
 

VT4700

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we committed to them for 4 years. I don't know if a 5th year ride is a reasonable expectation. to lose a Hunger or Buchanan because a senior MIGHT want to come back is a steep price.

we tell Mooney "win or you'll be fired". I'd try to land both on the assumption that someone doesn't come back and either grad transfers or goes to Europe. heck, Burton could declare for all I know. if everyone wants to come back, it would be a tough conversation with someone. that's a risk I'll take ... from my keyboard. but I'm not Mooney. tougher to make that call as the head coach. but Hunger and Buchanan won't wait until May.
I hear you Sman, and it wouldn't surprise me if the conversations have already been had, and we already have a good idea of who's coming back and who's not.
 

spiderman

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I hear you Sman, and it wouldn't surprise me if the conversations have already been had, and we already have a good idea of who's coming back and who's not.
maybe. we definitely didn't do that last year, but it didn't affect recruiting then like it does now.

I don't see the benefit to a kid letting it be known he wouldn't be coming back next year though, even if he did know. that could affect how a coach plays you this year. and you might change your mind based on how the season goes.
 
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SFspidur

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Yeah, important to keep in mind that we don't necessarily need Grace, Sal, or Goose to move on in order to free up a spot...a younger guy transferring out also frees up a spot. Not saying I want any of our guys to leave, but with the reality of things today, it's unusual to NOT see transfers.
 

spiderman

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Sounds to me like they want him to redshirt freshman year.
I don't think a coach would have that conversation before a kid even commits. a coach can't know where a recruit falls on the depth chart until right before the season next year.
 

spiderman

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Yeah, important to keep in mind that we don't necessarily need Grace, Sal, or Goose to move on in order to free up a spot...a younger guy transferring out also frees up a spot. Not saying I want any of our guys to leave, but with the reality of things today, it's unusual to NOT see transfers.
yeah, we've never had a roster like this before. we KNOW barring injuries that at a minimum 3 or 4 scholarshipped guys aren't going to play. nobody's happy not playing.
 

VT4700

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I don't think a coach would have that conversation before a kid even commits. a coach can't know where a recruit falls on the depth chart until right before the season next year.
They do have those conversations, and some kids are fine with redshirting.
 

spiderman

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They do have those conversations, and some kids are fine with redshirting.
not sure how much experience you have with this. I can't imagine that discussion before a kid commits this early. especially someone who doesn't need physical maturation.
"we know it's a year from now, but we're confident you won't be ready to help us so we'd plan to redshirt you. but feel free to commit to us".
I know it happens regularly in football. I don't believe that ever happens in basketball.
 

VT4700

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not sure how much experience you have with this. I can't imagine that discussion before a kid commits this early. especially someone who doesn't need physical maturation.
"we know it's a year from now, but we're confident you won't be ready to help us so we'd plan to redshirt you. but feel free to commit to us".
I know it happens regularly in football. I don't believe that ever happens in basketball.
Uh, yes, I do know a little about this. Not ever? Seriously? Do you think every recruit out there thinks they should play as a freshman? Every single one of them? Even ones who know their bodies and strength are nowhere near ready for that? I bet you didn't know that Baylor had 6 guys who redshirted on their title team last year. And, it was their choice, not the coaches because their coach doesn't tell them to redshirt, he asks them if they want to.
 

spider23

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we committed to them for 4 years. I don't know if a 5th year ride is a reasonable expectation. to lose a Hunger or Buchanan because a senior MIGHT want to come back is a steep price.

we tell Mooney "win or you'll be fired". I'd try to land both on the assumption that someone doesn't come back and either grad transfers or goes to Europe. heck, Burton could declare for all I know. if everyone wants to come back, it would be a tough conversation with someone. that's a risk I'll take ... from my keyboard. but I'm not Mooney. tougher to make that call as the head coach. but Hunger and Buchanan won't wait until May.
Agree here, there is just so much flux with rosters and opportunity that one of our multi year seniors or flock of wings does not come back. I feel like we have to take both if we can get them. This would be the classic moon man opportunity lost the last 10 years that leaves a hole in the roster and we miss the ncaa as last 4 out. Sign both and it will work out.
 
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Forgive me if this has been covered, but I thought you don't have to free up a spot. I thought everyone who played last year gets another year, and you don't have to normalize the roster size to accommodate it? Certainly could be wrong, but I thought that was the case.
 

SFspidur

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It's only this season where the cap of 13 is lifted for the super seniors. After that, players can still have the extra year, but they count toward the 13.
 

MrTbone

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If all three want to stay, they stay. I wouldn't want to run a program where you offer kids, accept kids, and then tell them to move on. We ask all the recruits to be committed to the program, so I would commit to them.
We would hardly be telling these guys to move on, they will have gotten a four year education here. I’d feel differently if we were pushing a first or second year guy out the door, which frankly I don’t know that we generally do.

If these guys project to be substantially better than a fifth year guy I think you owe it to the program to get them on scholarship.
 

spiderman

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Do you think every recruit out there thinks they should play as a freshman? Every single one of them? Even ones who know their bodies and strength are nowhere near ready for that?
I specifically excluded the developmental redshirts who's bodies need maturation.
developmental redshirts do happen, though less often than before dure to transfer rules.

I bet you didn't know that Baylor had 6 guys who redshirted on their title team last year. And, it was their choice, not the coaches because their coach doesn't tell them to redshirt, he asks them if they want to.
they had 6 guys who chose to redshirt? lol. where did you get that? so tranfers to Baylor got to choose if they wanted to redshirt? you're right, I didn't know that.

I think they had one skinny kid who needed a year in the weight room, and I already excluded that type of kid. Buchanan isn't that kid.

And, it was their choice, not the coaches because their coach doesn't tell them to redshirt, he asks them if they want to.
and you're telling me this conversation happens DURING THE RECRUIT PROCESS? not just before the season when the coach and player actually know where the player stands and who is healthy and on the roster?

Uh, yes, I do know a little about this.
can I assume you're saying you've gone through this personally or know someone who has?
 
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Forgive me if this has been covered, but I thought you don't have to free up a spot. I thought everyone who played last year gets another year, and you don't have to normalize the roster size to accommodate it? Certainly could be wrong, but I thought that was the case.
Got it--thanks.
 

VT4700

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I specifically excluded the developmental redshirts who's bodies need maturation.
developmental redshirts do happen, though less often than before dure to transfer rules.
No, you didn't. You said this:

I don't think a coach would have that conversation before a kid even commits. a coach can't know where a recruit falls on the depth chart until right before the season next year.

And then this:

not sure how much experience you have with this. I can't imagine that discussion before a kid commits this early. especially someone who doesn't need physical maturation.
"we know it's a year from now, but we're confident you won't be ready to help us so we'd plan to redshirt you. but feel free to commit to us".
I know it happens regularly in football. I don't believe that ever happens in basketball.

Sman, you did not specifically exclude developmental redshirts. Saying "I can't imagine that discussion before a kid commits this early. especially someone who doesn't need physical maturation" is not excluding those that do. Had you done so, I would have agreed and nothing more would have been said. Since you now say "developmental redshirts do happen, though less often than before dure to transfer rules", I can say i agree, and we can move on. All good.
 

spiderman

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omg, I'm obviously not always clear in what I'm trying to say. starting from scratch, I'm saying that Buchanan's statement about how he feels Pitt coaches want him but they have their plan and it's a process likely means Pitt coaches are waiting on a decision from someone ahead of Buchanan. It doesn't make sense that they want him to redshirt. he doesn't physically need it, and you don't have that conversation during the recruiting process with a guy like Buchanan who doesn't need physical maturation.

I'll let it go at this point, including your contention that 6 Baylor players chose to redshirt.
 

VT4700

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"Their plan, their goals, and how they are trying to build their program". To me, that could be a possible redshirt situation. Seems like it would be better for a coach to talk about redshirting than say "we are going to offer you, but we do like some other guys better". Also, I think they have 1 commit and 4 spots left, so I doubt Capel plans to play all 5 freshman next year. But, who knows? I agree it is rare to talk redshirt during the process, but I was just throwing it out there, and mentioning that it does happen. And, it doesn't have to be "you are definitely redshirting" talk. It could be "you will have a chance to come in and compete, and if it makes sense to redshirt and build up your body and prepare yourself better for ACC play, we can look into that".
 

MrTbone

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omg, I'm obviously not always clear in what I'm trying to say. starting from scratch, I'm saying that Buchanan's statement about how he feels Pitt coaches want him but they have their plan and it's a process likely means Pitt coaches are waiting on a decision from someone ahead of Buchanan. It doesn't make sense that they want him to redshirt. he doesn't physically need it, and you don't have that conversation during the recruiting process with a guy like Buchanan who doesn't need physical maturation.

I'll let it go at this point, including your contention that 6 Baylor players chose to redshirt.
You’ve managed to avoid these esoteric arguments with VT for four years.

Welcome to the Thunderdome.
 

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