Could/Should this team be better than last year’s?

[SpiderDad75]

Question is - how quickly do our transfers integrate into the Mooney system. And also - our best teams under Mooney have a top level PG - think Anderson, Gilyard, even the year we just missed and got 1 seed in NIT we had Kendall Anthony. So how that role is filled will be key as well.

My expectation would be we have a similar OOC and A10 record as this year, and the hope is by the 2nd half of the A10 and A10 tourney - guys are coming together and we make a run.

Yes..good points. Every successful team needs that floor leader...I think in the end with Jason and Dji we could have that. Both bring different things to the table. "My expectation would be we have a similar OOC and A10 record as this year, and the hope is by the 2nd half of the A10 and A10 tourney - guys are coming together and we make a run." I agree, and we may lose a game that we aren't suppose to and win a couple that we shouldn't. But like you say at the end we may have what it takes to make another run.

 

[MountainSpider]

It is hard to evaluate which year had better talent, but I think the talent better matches Mooney's system this year. Mooney's teams always seem to start a little slow, but by January I expect this team to gel and be one of the better A10 teams.

Golden --> Quinn
Cayo --> Bigelow
Sherod --> Roche (big upgrade due to Sherod's injuries)
Gilyard --> Nelson (downgrade, but I'm optimistic on Nelson coming close)
Sal --> no scholarship available
Wilson --> no scholarship available

 

[spiderman]

The never created a shot for others makes me think we r not watching the same games.

I exaggerate with "never", but Goose played 25 mpg and had fewer assists than MFG ... who isn't exactly a playmaker. being a guard doesn't make you a capable point guard. Goose just isn't a point guard. he's a 2 but I'd sooner play him at the 3. PG is too important to just throw anyone who can dribble out there.

 

[Ferrum Spider]

I agree mostly. The battle will be for the PG spot and as I have said the team benefits from this. Both have awards Dji was also a 1A Player of the year, recruited by all as a PG, was signed as a PG at Wake Forest and had multiple offers from HM/MM schools. So that doesn't really matter in the grand scheme of things imo. So I don't think Coach will automaticlly slide Jason in bc he "fits the profile" We all win when there is competition at any postiion. But we can agree on your last statement about not looking for PGs in the portal. I can say Jason and Dji have been working out together since the season ended and are pretty close...a win win 🕷️ 🏀

I think this may be the first year in a while we don’t have a PG playing over 30 mins a game because of the options we have there. Traditionally the new or next PG comes in and is playing 34+ a game it seems like.

Nelson’s going to be a stud from watching him in HS. Like his (Dji) game from what I have seen when he has played and If Nelson/Dji are competing for minutes we’re going to be set at PG at all times instead of having to play a guy all game.

I keep looking on this roster for weak links and don’t really see much in terms of talent. The highly touted freshman class wont be thrown into the fire and we replaced all three openings with guys who can contribute from day one. Really it will be about getting the team chemistry and lineups correct.

Seems like we’re off to a better start to capitalizing on our success than we were in 2011.

 

[spiderman]

The highly touted freshman class wont be thrown into the fire ...

outside of Nelson, I don't think the fresman class is all that highly touted.
but I hope they prove they should be.

 

[97spiderfan]

This is really exciting. Waiting for Mooney to crown this the best offseason ever

"Best Transfer Class Ever"

 

[SpiderDad75]

I exaggerate with "never", but Goose played 25 mpg and had fewer assists than MFG ... who isn't exactly a playmaker. being a guard doesn't make you a capable point guard. Goose just isn't a point guard. he's a 2 but I'd sooner play him at the 3. PG is too important to just throw anyone who can dribble out there.

This...Exactly

 

[urmite]

I exaggerate with "never", but Goose played 25 mpg and had fewer assists than MFG ... who isn't exactly a playmaker. being a guard doesn't make you a capable point guard. Goose just isn't a point guard. he's a 2 but I'd sooner play him at the 3. PG is too important to just throw anyone who can dribble out there.

Is PG defined by running the half court offense or by getting the ball past half court?
I feel like there have been times when Goose could do the latter...

 

[SpiderDad75]

Is PG defined by running the half court offense or by getting the ball past half court?
I feel like there have been times when Goose could do the latter...

Not completely...Goose can do this in spots but not entirely. They read, they make decisions, set the offense, set the tone, make plays. Break players down. They do a lot more than just bringing the ball up the court.

 

[VT4700]

I think we are all probably in agreement here. What SDad originally said was Goose could fill in if necessary. And, he could. I think that means if Dji or Nelson is out one game, and the other gets in foul trouble of needs a few minutes break, Goose could fill in. He doesn't need to do everything a true PG does when doing this. Just give us a few minutes if necessary. The thinking is we don't need to go get a 3rd true PG who may never see the floor just in case he is ever needed. Our roster had other needs and we filled them.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I think we are all probably in agreement here. What SDad originally said was Goose could fill in if necessary. And, he could. I think that means if Dji or Nelson is out one game, and the other gets in foul trouble of needs a few minutes break, Goose could fill in. He doesn't need to do everything a true PG does when doing this. Just give us a few minutes if necessary. The thinking is we don't need to go get a 3rd true PG who may never see the floor just in case he is ever needed. Our roster had other needs and we filled them.

exactly

 

[GKiller]

The only thing I will say about that is…Jason and Dji have been PGs all their lives. PGs aren’t just thrown out there whenever you want a PG. They are made/born from an early age for that position.

agree...but u said yourself he could fill in, we were talking spot duty some backup minutes at 1...do I think he can play a little more than spot duty there....yes I do, but would still be filling in & not primary role...we'll see what happens...just speculating like anyone else on here.

 

[urmite]

exactly

And what my questions were attempting to prompt the two sides to reconcile...

 

[GKiller]

I exaggerate with "never", but Goose played 25 mpg and had fewer assists than MFG ... who isn't exactly a playmaker. being a guard doesn't make you a capable point guard. Goose just isn't a point guard. he's a 2 but I'd sooner play him at the 3. PG is too important to just throw anyone who can dribble out there.

see my reply to dad. thought might be exaggeration good to know. most of our assists come from the high post or PG. fact is our O flows much better with goose. Sometimes it's the pass to set up the next pass, the secondary assist. anyway we r talking fill in minutes at PG...it may depend on matchups...yes he can play 3 too he's very versatile...he brings ball handling experience in the offense already...I think we may see him get some time there in spot duty, especially if we have a numbers crunch elsewhere.

 

[Eight Legger]

We have a lot of highly capable players and obviously a bunch of overlap at the 2 and 3. Would it be possible to split the roster in half and petition the A10 to allow us to field two teams next season?

 

[SpiderDad75]

see my reply to dad. thought might be exaggeration good to know. most of our assists come from the high post or PG. fact is our O flows much better with goose. Sometimes it's the pass to set up the next pass, the secondary assist. anyway we r talking fill in minutes at PG...it may depend on matchups...yes he can play 3 too he's very versatile...he brings ball handling experience in the offense already...I think we may see him get some time there in spot duty, especially if we have a numbers crunch elsewhere.

"fact is our O flows much better with goose." How do we know this? Yes maybe with last years version, this years the jury is out . I think we all agree about the spot duty.

 

[urmite]

Can we have a Red & Blue game this year? With each team having 6 "A-10 level starters" on each roster, and 1 player alternating sides per half?

 

[GKiller]

"fact is our O flows much better with goose." How do we know this? Yes maybe with last years version, this years the jury is out . I think we all agree about the spot duty.

historically. 19-20 it did too imo. & I don't see Mooney changing the offense significantly. tho what players do within the O will be different bc lot of new ones w different capabilities. Obv that flow didn't come from the PG position since Gilly played 40 mins but Goose had ball in his hand the next most as a guard, helping Gilly out half court or bringing up.

 

[SpiderDad75]

agree...but u said yourself he could fill in, we were talking spot duty some backup minutes at 1...do I think he can play a little more than spot duty there....yes I do, but would still be filling in & not primary role...we'll see what happens...just speculating like anyone else on here.

yeah for sure...filling in not starting him and playing most of his minutes there was what I was referring too.

 

[SpiderDad75]

historically. 19-20 it did too imo. & I don't see Mooney changing the offense significantly. tho what players do within the O will be different bc lot of new ones w different capabilities. Obv that flow didn't come from the PG position since Gilly played 40 mins but Goose had ball in his hand the next most as a guard, helping Gilly out half court or bringing up.

Did you forget about Blake that 19-20 year? Maybe we can agree to disagree. Blake certainly wasn't great at keeping us flowing but was still solid...he called his own number and was a bucket getter, which I know doesn't equate to what you are referring too. Bringing it up doesn't always mean the offense flowed better with him. Gilly did a heck of a job but not saying Goose wasn't a huge factor. We don't know how it will flow this year until we do. Do I think Goose will help in that postion...yes but not as the primary lead. To me there are only 2 true PGs on this team but again that doesn't mean Goose can't step into that to spell some minutes.

 

[fan2011]

historically. 19-20 it did too imo. & I don't see Mooney changing the offense significantly. tho what players do within the O will be different bc lot of new ones w different capabilities. Obv that flow didn't come from the PG position since Gilly played 40 mins but Goose had ball in his hand the next most as a guard, helping Gilly out half court or bringing up.

You think the offense flowed better with Goose than with Blake in 19/20? Not my recollection. Definitely flowed better with Goose over Wilson at the 2 this year, but that is not a high bar. I do not see Goose as an above average contributor to the offense, his value comes from defense.

 

[SpiderDad75]

You think the offense flowed better with Goose than with Blake in 19/20? Not my recollection. Definitely flowed better with Goose over Wilson at the 2 this year, but that is not a high bar.

Agree...I wouldn't say it flowed really well with Blake but he more than made up for it by just being a dog and a bucket getter. Def agree with your last sentence.

 

[spiderman]

to me bringing the ball up the court has nothing to do with being a PG.
heck, Nick helped bring the ball up the court pretty often before last season. so did Trey Davis. that doesn't make them PGs.

if Coach decides to play Goose with both Jason and Dji on the bench for a few minutes, I'll understand some of you saying Goose played point. I'll contend we decided to play without a point.

a point guard will drive and create a good shot for someone other than himself. think Gilyard, Shawndre, Ced, KA ...
Blake and Kendall could handle ... but they weren't point guards.
they're still more PG than Goose though.

 

[LongTimeSpiderFan]

I think we are all probably in agreement here. What SDad originally said was Goose could fill in if necessary. And, he could. I think that means if Dji or Nelson is out one game, and the other gets in foul trouble of needs a few minutes break, Goose could fill in. He doesn't need to do everything a true PG does when doing this. Just give us a few minutes if necessary. The thinking is we don't need to go get a 3rd true PG who may never see the floor just in case he is ever needed. Our roster had other needs and we filled them.

I believe Goose plays point guard for his national team so he has that versatility.

 

[spiderman]

I believe Goose plays point guard for his national team so he has that versatility.

didn't know that. thanks. is that in the summer?

 

[SpiderDad75]

I believe Goose plays point guard for his national team so he has that versatility.

From what I've seen listed the last time I looked and its been a while, he was listed as a SG as they had 3 PG on the Finish team

 

[GKiller]

Did you forget about Blake that 19-20 year? Maybe we can agree to disagree. Blake certainly wasn't great at keeping us flowing but was still solid...he called his own number and was a bucket getter, which I know doesn't equate to what you are referring too. Bringing it up doesn't always mean the offense flowed better with him. Gilly did a heck of a job but not saying Goose wasn't a huge factor. We don't know how it will flow this year until we do. Do I think Goose will help in that postion...yes but not as the primary lead. To me there are only 2 true PGs on this team but again that doesn't mean Goose can't step into that to spell some minutes.

Blake did have ball in hands more just by sheer mins played & shots taken. Meant last year re: goose but didn’t clarify well. Blake was great player & role was to shoot but the O also stopped with him often. Goose moved the ball. His role 19-20. Last year a little more on ball. Of course that overall flow is never due to 1 player & didn’t suggest it. But I do think we were optimal w goose playing higher mins & his mins seemed to kick in more back half of the seasons. Part of that is D, the D leads to O or puts less pressure on it. I don’t have all the metrics just going by long term observation of spider hoops. To me he has the potential to be more of a playmaker w his driving. & we may get it more. I’m not saying he’s a more natural pg than Nelson or Dji. But seems all agree he could get some time at the PG & fill in. I just personally see a little more than expected than others. That’s all. I didn’t envision as a unreasonable take but maybe some do. It would still be part time. How the other 2 step up will be a factor of course but that is less known than what we know w goose.

We’ll see next season idk what will happen.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

I think there's a good degree of nitpicking here. We're talking backup spot minutes as a ball handler against the press (since "bringing it up" is moot vs no press) and how well the ball moves in the offense. Goose is good at both. GK I think is correct that Goose for the most part understands the Moon offense as well as anyone. He brought a cutting/slashing element that neither Blake nor Nick had to the halfcourt. I do think Dji has that too but Moon does not ask the PG to fill that role as much except on the occasional backdoor cutter. We all know he prioritizes nullifying fast break opportunities and Goose understood that as much as anyone.

If we're talking about the minutes Goose will get, I mean he's gonna get minutes. Moon loves him and his game is solid and above solid on defense. He's a proven glue guy commodity. If he can step up shooting #s his minutes will be steady or rise even. He shut down Jimerson, zeroed him for a half, that was so impressive. We need that.

I also think that Sdad is correct that Goose won't be on the court as primary handler much and my gut tells me that role will split this season, it's as open as it's been. One thing we know Moon loves is that when the ball resets late in the clock, to have a lead guard who can make the play late in the clock. That's an unproven commodity for all our guards at this point.

 

[spiderman]

From what I've seen listed the last time I looked and its been a while, he was listed as a SG as they had 3 PG on the Finish team

does Goose even go home for the summer? aren't we back on campus after 2 weeks?
think he was out all summer last year after his surgery.

 

[urmite]

You think the offense flowed better with Goose than with Blake in 19/20? Not my recollection. Definitely flowed better with Goose over Wilson at the 2 this year, but that is not a high bar. I do not see Goose as an above average contributor to the offense, his value comes from defense.

I will completely disagree with those who say Goose is a PG or that he set up the offense.

But over the years that Gilly & Goose were both on the team, I began to notice that Gilly only seemed to come off the court if Goose was on it. I was a bit surprised and it could just be my imagination but that is what I thought I saw.

 

[GKiller]

does Goose even go home for the summer? aren't we back on campus after 2 weeks?
think he was out all summer last year after his surgery.

he had some Finnish military obligations in summers past too. I hope that is over.

 

[SpiderDad75]

he had some Finnish military obligations in summers past too. I hope that is over.

Yeah haven't heard if he is going home this summer.

 

[Eight Legger]

he had some Finnish military obligations in summers past too. I hope that is Finnished.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[SFspidur]

I thought the military stuff was done once he came back for soph year. He did some time the summer before and the summer after his frosh year to satisfy his requirement.

 

[GKiller]

agree w Brooklyn. I realize not all agree but I think goose should get 2nd most minutes after Burton. Esp if he can shoot ~35% from 3. With a glut of 2-3s u need to find ways to get best players on floor & Goose is steady enough to run the 1 say 20-25% of time. If the combo of the other 2 stake their claim & make that moot so be it.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

"fact is our O flows much better with goose." How do we know this? Yes maybe with last years version, this years the jury is out . I think we all agree about the spot duty.

I think referring to how Goos's overall play was more consistent than Wilson and he made much fewer mistakes. Goos cuts well and is a strong receiver of the passes not a renowned passer. But in fairness to him, he is not a bad ball handler due to fact he typically avoids trouble and knows when to get rid of the ball.

 

[spider23]

I think the good thing is that Goose is a team player. He is going to go out and play hard, play defense, cut hard to the basket no matter what his role. If he is back to coming off the bench, he contributes enough areas that he will get minutes and make an impact. If he is the starter - Mooney choosing to value defense to start the game - and he gives way to more offense - he can play that role well too.


I think the same goes for Crabtree. I was very impressed with his ability in the A10 tourney and NCAA to come in cold off the bench into high pressure situations, play good defense, and work into the flow on offense making good decisions. Watching his high school and Tulane highlights, if he is 100 healthy I think he could be a big time contributor for us. He has the mental game down now it seems, if he is fully back I think he is a very good shooter with plus athleticism. Hoping this is his year.

 

[Eight Legger]

We're probably going to average 106 points per game, I think it's pretty obvious at this point.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I think referring to how Goos's overall play was more consistent than Wilson and he made much fewer mistakes. Goos cuts well and is a strong receiver of the passes not a renowned passer. But in fairness to him, he is not a bad ball handler due to fact he typically avoids trouble and knows when to get rid of the ball.

I agree with this. But on flip side…handling the ball doesn’t make one a PG 😀 (i know I’m a little Petty LaBelle today)He will still help us in that spot

 

[spiderman]

agree w Brooklyn. I realize not all agree but I think goose should get 2nd most minutes after Burton. Esp if he can shoot ~35% from 3. With a glut of 2-3s u need to find ways to get best players on floor & Goose is steady enough to run the 1 say 20-25% of time. If the combo of the other 2 stake their claim & make that moot so be it.

35%? smh
in 4 years he's played 2,277 minutes and hit 46 three pointers total at a 28.6% clip. I'd love you to be right but 35% based on what?
Goose is a good slasher and a good defender. he's not a shooter or a PG. accept him for what he is ... and what he's not.

as 23 said, if he starts and plays a lot it's because Mooney values his defense. it's not because Mooney thinks he'll suddenly become a 35% shooter after 4 years.

and we better be winning. because if not and Goose is playing 25+mpg while a guy who hit 110 threes in one year is watching, I may change my thoughts on that billboard.