Burton going through draft process again, no decision on returning to UR

[Eight Legger]

Well, if you believe Mooney, he says he doesn't talk to the guys about whether they are coming back and doesn't try to influence them, so I guess we just have to wait and see. And then hope by the time Burton decides, there are some good transfers left who want to come here.

 

[97spiderfan]

If Burton returns, we have a total of two set in stone starters (Quinn and Burton), if he doesn't we have just Quinn. No one else on the roster has earned a starter spot in my opinion on this team and if we find someone on the transfer market that is a better option, I think our staff can legit promise them the chance to come here and be the starter from Day 1.

I hope and suspect all of our players get better, but right now, Roche, Bigelow, Dji, Randolph, Jaynell have not proven that they should step up on the court next year and be an incumbent starter. They all have much to prove and fairly large holes in their game to improve upon.

So, yes, I could see if we strike some gold in the transfer market, that one of those guys might see the writing on the wall, regarding PT, and might decide they can find more elsewhere. I don't want to lose any of them, but we have to get more top level talent on this roster, that is just a must.

 

[VT4700]

Well, what would you do, EL? Make Tyler decide now even if he is undecided? Didn't we just go through this last year, and land 3 good transfers while Tyler was undecided? If a transfer wants to come here, play 36+ minutes, be the guy, take nearly 200 3s, and average about 20 a game, then, okay, maybe the Tyler decision would impact that, but I don't think too many guys in the portal fit that for us. Actually, there are very few Tyler types out there anyway, and even if there were, he plays a position where both could play a ton of minutes. It's not like we are waiting for a PG decision or a decision from a big. Any transfer we land could play big minutes along with Tyler, and could still produce big numbers.

Not sure why you think this is a big deal, except for the all too common on here turn everything into another shot at Mooney theme. I would think quality transfers would be 100% fine playing with a team first, class act like Tyler, especially when they wouldn't even have to worry about playing the same position.

 

[spider23]

Well, if you believe Mooney, he says he doesn't talk to the guys about whether they are coming back and doesn't try to influence them, so I guess we just have to wait and see. And then hope by the time Burton decides, there are some good transfers left who want to come here.

I do think there are conversations, and Mooney has a good idea about Tyler and can share with potential portal candidates when/if the topic comes up.

 

[spider23]

97, agree for the most part on "incumbent" starters. I do like Bigs as a starter, based solely on his defense and rebounding. I know I value that a little more than most, and the defensive teams can look ugly at times (UVA, SDSU) when you have that and some offense you can be very good.

My incumbent starters, if Burton is back:
F - Burton
F- Bigelow
C - Quinn/Walz

Love Walz size, athleticism, smarts. Now get motivated and make yourself a starter.

 

[VT4700]

Good point Native. It’s not inconceivable we’ll have 4 ships open. By the article JOC infers but think it’s also a natural inference. We’ve avoided the outgoing transfers for most part here tho.

I do think the uncertainty of Burton won’t help. Last year I think it was more widely assumed he’d be back. Now who knows & that also affects transfers. Who to target by us. And vice versa who is interested in us. If Burton returns some will like that we’d have better chance to be good. If Burton gone some will like the more shots etc that will be available. If we r targeting a pg or combo it doesn’t affect that a ton. Still waiting to June is not ideal & has some trickle effect but presumably we may know more behind the scenes.

I don't see how Burton's choice will affect who we target. Look at it this way....if you had 2 Tylers on your team, would you play them both big minutes? Of course you would, right? And, like you mentioned, transfers could be looking at it like a win win. We will be better with Tyler, or of he leaves, maybe more shots for them. With the hundreds (thousands?) of transfers out there, Tyler's decision should really not affect us at all.

 

[VT4700]

I do think there are conversations, and Mooney has a good idea about Tyler and can share with potential portal candidates when/if the topic comes up.

Possible, but if Tyler is unsure, Mooney would be unsure as well. I think Mooney will always be honest with transfers and recruits, and share what he knows. Just use it as a positive. "We have a guy looking into the NBA right now". If transfers do their research like they should, they will see we could have a lot of playing time available, with or without Tyler.

 

[97spiderfan]

97, agree for the most part on "incumbent" starters. I do like Bigs as a starter, based solely on his defense and rebounding. I know I value that a little more than most, and the defensive teams can look ugly at times (UVA, SDSU) when you have that and some offense you can be very good.

My incumbent starters, if Burton is back:
F - Burton
F- Bigelow
C - Quinn/Walz

Love Walz size, athleticism, smarts. Now get motivated and make yourself a starter.

I can find strengths in Bigs for sure, much of what you noted, defense rebounding. And if he is our starter at the 4, that is not the worst thing in the world. I do think his offense is problematic though, especially with the type of offense Mooney runs.

I do agree our biggest issues are at the guard position, that is clearly in need of an alpha player at the position.

 

[VT4700]

97, agree for the most part on "incumbent" starters. I do like Bigs as a starter, based solely on his defense and rebounding. I know I value that a little more than most, and the defensive teams can look ugly at times (UVA, SDSU) when you have that and some offense you can be very good.

My incumbent starters, if Burton is back:
F - Burton
F- Bigelow
C - Quinn/Walz

Love Walz size, athleticism, smarts. Now get motivated and make yourself a starter.

Good points, and I would be fine with Bigs starting if we had enough shooting out there. I agree about Walz as well. Nothing says he has to be the backup. Go after it, big guy!

But, if these are 3 of our starters, we better find 2 guards who can shoot high 30s from 3 because we have 2 guys in the 20s and a non threat from 3 in the 3 spots you listed. With teams having 3 and 4 guard lineups and so many with multiple shooters now, I would be a little concerned with all 3 of them starting.

 

[GKiller]

I don't see how Burton's choice will affect who we target. Look at it this way....if you had 2 Tylers on your team, would you play them both big minutes? Of course you would, right? And, like you mentioned, transfers could be looking at it like a win win. We will be better with Tyler, or of he leaves, maybe more shots for them. With the hundreds (thousands?) of transfers out there, Tyler's decision should really not affect us at all.

Well if we don't know if coming back we don't know how aggressively to target a minimum 3rd guy in the portal. Our candidate pool will be less in June. So there's that. & I think if a key guy leaves or stays it affects how u go about replacing him. So I think when constructing a roster it would be a normal thing to weigh. The timing is not ideal but plenty deal with it and we want these "problems" at UR. U r right it might not affect us at all. we don't know. Strategy could be go get a guard and then get next best possible players regardless.

 

[8legs1dream]

yeah it is kind of a big deal to know whether or not you will have the best player on your team coming back lol recruiting wise at least

 

[spiderman]

uncertainty really limits things from the transfer's point of view. a wing player looking for a good situation isn't going to commit here without knowing, since Burton's going to command 36 mpg if he returns.

 

[97spiderfan]

uncertainty really limits things from the transfer's point of view. a wing player looking for a good situation isn't going to commit here without knowing, since Burton's going to command 36 mpg if he returns.

Burton can play the 3 or the 4, so I think we can still offer a wing player pretty good minutes and either they get to be the stud wing on the team OR they get to team up with Burton to make a really dynamic tandem.

I kind of actually think the opposite that having Burton still undecided could help with recruiting a bit. With him still in play, a transfer can look at us and see another great talent on the team, hence better chance to win next year.

 

[VT4700]

uncertainty really limits things from the transfer's point of view. a wing player looking for a good situation isn't going to commit here without knowing, since Burton's going to command 36 mpg if he returns.

???? You and your 1-5 stuff continues to amaze me. So, another "wing" can't play with Tyler? And, how many 6'7 Tyler types are in the portal anyway? So, if Tyler leaves, you think we will just find another Tyler to play "the wing"?

 

[spiderman]

???? You and your 1-5 stuff continues to amaze me. So, another "wing" can't play with Tyler? And, how many 6'7 Tyler types are in the portal anyway? So, if Tyler leaves, you think we will just find another Tyler to play "the wing"?

no, we're not going to reload with another Tyler.

guys in the portal are looking for a better situation. could be winning more. could be higher level. could be playing more. or just a better fit. maybe something else.

but they're not looking for uncertainty. some forward would love to play with Tyler. another forward would love to replace Tyler. neither of those types will likely want to commit not knowing if Tyler is coming back.

in my opinion.

 

[SpiderAlways]

no, we're not going to reload with another Tyler.

guys in the portal are looking for a better situation. could be winning more. could be higher level. could be playing more. or just a better fit. maybe something else.

but they're not looking for uncertainty. some forward would love to play with Tyler. another forward would love to replace Tyler. neither of those types will likely want to commit not knowing if Tyler is coming back.

in my opinion.

We all know only one opinion matters around here

 

[whampas]

Well, if you believe Mooney, he says he doesn't talk to the guys about whether they are coming back and doesn't try to influence them, so I guess we just have to wait and see. And then hope by the time Burton decides, there are some good transfers left who want to come here.

If that's Mooney's MO, it helps explain his less than stellar recruiting success.

 

[VT4700]

no, we're not going to reload with another Tyler.

guys in the portal are looking for a better situation. could be winning more. could be higher level. could be playing more. or just a better fit. maybe something else.

but they're not looking for uncertainty. some forward would love to play with Tyler. another forward would love to replace Tyler. neither of those types will likely want to commit not knowing if Tyler is coming back.

in my opinion.

Okay, let's go back to your previous post and maybe you can explain your opinion better. So, if Tyler returns, why would this not be a good situation for a wing player? Why couldn't a transfer play with Tyler? I guess I am just confused that you continue to say stuff like this about positions ( like with our Bizjack debate) when all kinds of teams out there have 3 or 4 guard starting lineups, or, yes, a lineup with more than one wing.

 

[MrTbone]

So one problem from this year at least has been eliminated purely through attrition: no more combos of Matt grace with Neal Quinn. That alone gets us back 8 generally unproductive minutes per game.

Beyond that, not a ton of reasons to be optimistic about next year even if Tyler returns, we had a losing season and generally didn’t look competitive against most of the “top” A10 competition.

Perhaps a little better merely after a year of seasoning? PG play would have to improve dramatically and I think Bigelow has to step up to produce 12/7 per game Or something close.

Perhaps a couple of high performing transfers change our trajectory but they didn’t last year, so either they weren’t great, need more time, or just weren’t coached/used effectively. It’s possible all three could be at least partially true.

I personally don’t expect Tyler back. I think it’s Quinn, Bigelow, and I guess Nelson? Roche or Marcus at the off guard barring a new transfer. I guess noyes at SF but a transfer there seems needed even though noyes has great potential.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Cayo and Noyes are same height with Cayo possibly little heavier and played the #4. Noyes
would offer difference of outside shooting ability, but would be more a hybrid 4 than Cayo.
Key to all of this is having our guards being a scoring threat which opens up everything else.

 

[spiderman]

Okay, let's go back to your previous post and maybe you can explain your opinion better. So, if Tyler returns, why would this not be a good situation for a wing player? Why couldn't a transfer play with Tyler? I guess I am just confused that you continue to say stuff like this about positions ( like with our Bizjack debate) when all kinds of teams out there have 3 or 4 guard starting lineups, or, yes, a lineup with more than one wing.

like I said, playing with Tyler could be a GREAT situation for the right guy. replacing Tyler could be a GREAT situation for the right guy. but I think not knowing what Tyler's plans are is a bad situation for any prospective transfer.

the good players entering the portal are getting 30 or more calls their first day, and then constant calls from coaches trying to build relationships. it's a lot. they're looking for reasons to narrow their list. they'd like a reasonably clear understanding of the situation. not "we're not sure if our star forward is coming back".

I'm just saying I hope Tyler decides sooner rather than later.

 

[spiderman]

Cayo and Noyes are same height with Cayo possibly little heavier and played the #4. Noyes
would offer difference of outside shooting ability, but would be more a hybrid 4 than Cayo.
Key to all of this is having our guards being a scoring threat which opens up everything else.

Noyes looks smaller to me, but I agree if he's added enough strength he can play big forward.
size doesn't matter offensively. it's a question of who he can defend.
there are opponents where it wouldn't be a problem, and others where it could be.

 

[VT4700]

like I said, playing with Tyler could be a GREAT situation for the right guy. replacing Tyler could be a GREAT situation for the right guy. but I think not knowing what Tyler's plans are is a bad situation for any prospective transfer.

the good players entering the portal are getting 30 or more calls their first day, and then constant calls from coaches trying to build relationships. it's a lot. they're looking for reasons to narrow their list. they'd like a reasonably clear understanding of the situation. not "we're not sure if our start forward is coming back".

I'm just saying I hope Tyler decides sooner rather than later.

All good. We can just disagree.

 

[8legs1dream]

I'm just saying I hope Tyler decides sooner rather than later.

I agree unfortunately last year he waited until the last possible day to announce what was going on (June 1)

 

[spiderman]

All good. We can just disagree.

I'm going to regret this but I have to ask ... do you think Tyler waiting has any impact to a potential transfer who has a bunch of options and is looking to lock up his spot?
besides the fact that Mooney doesn't know if he has 2 or 3 spots to fill?

 

[SFspidur]

The combine doesn't wrap up until May 21. I really don't see any way he decides (at least officially) before then.

 

[VT4700]

I'm going to regret this but I have to ask ... do you think Tyler waiting has any impact to a potential transfer who has a bunch of options and is looking to lock up his spot?
besides the fact that Mooney doesn't know if he has 2 or 3 spots to fill?

No. Zero impact. I think the main reason we disagree so much here is how you worded your post. You said "his spot". I don't think a transfer "wing guy", as you say, would worry about having just one spot. I doubt transfers hear "come here and be our small forward wing guy". They have probably not heard small forward or power forward used at all, and if they hear "wing guy", they are probably used to playing with multiple wings at the same time. So, no, I don't think transfers are concerned about Tyler's status because, even if Tyler comes back, we have starting spots and big minutes available.

 

[spiderman]

if Tyler is coming back the transfer will compare himself mostly to Bigelow for a starting spot, and to Noyes and Tanner for the backup roles knowing he's really only fighting for one spot and Tyler is the other foward.
if Tyler isn't coming back there are 2 forward spots available.

please don't get caught up in my use of the term "forward". I'm using it for non-post, non-PG, and bigger than Roche/Randoph/Dji. and yes, I agree an unusually sized guy with guard skills like the D2 kid mentioned today could play almost anywhere on the floor and would compare himself to other guys on our roster.

 

[VT4700]

Miami just went to the final four starting 4 Gs and a F. Their tallest starter was 6'7.....I just don't think teams and players worry about these positions as much as you do.

 

[spider23]

I do think size/lenghth and athleticism are very very helpful. Watched SDSU this year, and they could overwhelm teams in MW and smaller conferences for most part. Against Arkansas, and Uconn, they had trouble getting clean looks and rebounds. Many different ways to win a game, and Miami was good with small ball $NIL, but I still like having some length and positional size on defense. If Burton is back, I really like the size/athleticism grouping of Burton, Bigs and Dji as a defensive unit. If one of Dji or Bigs can be a consistent three threat that is a nice unit, but if not - to 4700's point - either can't play for long stretches or need a couple stone cold scorers from the portal.

 

[spiderman]

Miami just went to the final four starting 4 Gs and a F. Their tallest starter was 6'7.....I just don't think teams and players worry about these positions as much as you do.

Miami can call Omier a forward all day, but he defended the 5 and he played offense like an old school 5.
dude weighs 250. they can call Miller a forward too, but he's 6'7" and pulled down over 6 rpg.

we call Burton a forward. if you want to call him a guard that's fine. but when you line him up with Quinn, Grace, Goose and Nelson ... I think you can pretty easily slot them into 1-5 roles for discussion purposes.

you can go through every Spider team all the way back to Tarrant and do the same.

 

[ManiBenton]

r u positive it has ended?

For his sake I hope so. There's no reason for him to stay here. Why would he? The team isn't in the position to compete (especially with that fraud as coach)

 

[ManiBenton]

This may come as a shock to you, but our players love U of R and Coach Mooney, which is why we have one of the top retention rates in the country of our key players. Mooney has also done a great job in developing players where most of our starters in recent years have gone on to play professionally, despite not be rated that high out of high school.

The 2 starters that did transfer under Mooney basically torpedoed their careers.

It would shock me that he'd settle for another trash year instead of going somewhere where he can win.

 

[ManiBenton]

Well, he also won an A-10 tourney and a dance game, which many said he would never do here.

He was teammates with "The best class in Richmond Basketball History" (According to your boy CM) and only made the tournament once. This class was still a huge disappointment due to their lack of results thanks to CM. All you Mooney lovers need to quit praising this man, he isn't good. Jerry Wainwright was a better coach than him.

 

[ManiBenton]

You have said this about Tyler for 3 years now, and Grant and Jacob before that. Maybe at some point u will get one right.

Maybe at some point you'll realize the situation this program is in and has been in for since the 2010-11 season. 10 years of disappointment and watching CM makes one, all the Mooney Lovers pop out. UR greats like TJ and Kendall not even making the tournament due to CM but as soon as Maybe you'll also realize that there's nothing Richmond can do to help his college career anymore. If he stays he'll put up good numbers like this year, but finish in 13th-14th.

 

[SFspidur]

TB named second team all-state.

 

[spider23]

I am starting to feel this deja vu situation could bite us in the A$$ this season. We don't seem involved in a "replacement" in the portal. My spidey senses tell me Mooney believes Burton is coming back, so if we can get another legit guard I think our roster will be in really good shape. But if Burton does decide to go G league route, or portal route, we could be in a bad spot.

 

[8legs1dream]

I just hope he doesn't wait until the last possible minute to decide again.

 

[spiderman]

I just hope he doesn't wait until the last possible minute to decide again.

I kinda think he has to though.

 

[SFspidur]

Yeah, I don't see how he can decide until he's gone through all the pre-draft stuff.

I believe the transfer portal deadline for grad transfers is May 1, so that's one date lurking out there. No idea if that's something he's even considering.