ADVERTISEMENT

Buffalo and Lafayette

L

Long Island Spiders

Star
Sep 9, 2021
1,459
1,515
113
Terrible games

Combined for just two wins between the two of them

Mooney says often that it’s hard for him to build a schedule but come on
 
Seriously. I don't know if we just have dumb luck or what, but we play an inordinate number of REALLY atrocious teams every year. I'm chalking Siena being awful to bad luck. I don't know enough about why these teams suck out loud, but we really need to beat them both by 21+ just to maintain our relative spot in the NET.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: MDspider8, Spiders4ever and Long Island Spiders
I believe we have the 4th hardest out of conference schedule in the A-10. Please correct me if I am wrong. I do think luck does play apart. Hard to predict how good a team will be when the schedule is made. Also, this year we were unlucky in that a number of teams we have played recently home and away like Boston College, Wichita State, Northern Iowa and William and Mary, resulted in an extremely difficult road schedule and a very easy home schedule. Our record would have been better if the 3 difficult teams were home and W&M was away.
 
Neither of them has defeated a D-I school.

Buffalo's win was over D-II Roberts Wesleyan and Lafayette's was over D-III Wilkes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23
80sfan isn't wrong though...as middling as our overall OOC SOS is, it is ranked 4th in the A-10 according to KenPom. Look at all these pathetic 300+ ones.

It's actually almost impossible to understand how St. Joe's has such a bad ranking considering they've played Kentucky, Villanova, and Princeton.

36. Dayton
139. VCU
147. Davidson
163. Richmond
174. Loyola
178. SLU
183. Rhode Island
185. Duquesne
264. Mason
293. Bona
305. Fordham
321. UMass
322. St. Joe's
325. La Salle
339. GW
 
SFspidur said:
80sfan isn't wrong though...as middling as our overall OOC SOS is, it is ranked 4th in the A-10 according to KenPom. Look at all these pathetic 300+ ones.

It's actually almost impossible to understand how St. Joe's has such a bad ranking considering they've played Kentucky, Villanova, and Princeton.

36. Dayton
139. VCU
147. Davidson
163. Richmond
174. Loyola
178. SLU
183. Rhode Island
185. Duquesne
264. Mason
293. Bona
305. Fordham
321. UMass
322. St. Joe's
325. La Salle
339. GW
Click to expand...
That is pretty absurd. Who else did they play, 10 teams from the Colonial District? Sorry, I mean the Revolutionaries District...
 
  • Like
Reactions: mr.spider and Spiders4ever
SFspidur said:
80sfan isn't wrong though...as middling as our overall OOC SOS is, it is ranked 4th in the A-10 according to KenPom. Look at all these pathetic 300+ ones.

It's actually almost impossible to understand how St. Joe's has such a bad ranking considering they've played Kentucky, Villanova, and Princeton.

36. Dayton
139. VCU
147. Davidson
163. Richmond
174. Loyola
178. SLU
183. Rhode Island
185. Duquesne
264. Mason
293. Bona
305. Fordham
321. UMass
322. St. Joe's
325. La Salle
339. GW
Click to expand...
Bracketologists.com has some interesting SOS & OOC SOS as well...

Richmond Spiders Nitty Gritty at Bracketologists

bracketologists.com bracketologists.com

I'm not sure but I think Kenpom only includes SOS that you have already played.
 
7 of Kenpom top 12 schedules are SWAC.

Purdue, Memphis and Texas A&M are in there.
Texas A&M played 6 in the Top 32 plus #71 and only one of those at home.
 
urmite said:
Bracketologists.com has some interesting SOS & OOC SOS as well...

Richmond Spiders Nitty Gritty at Bracketologists

bracketologists.com bracketologists.com

I'm not sure but I think Kenpom only includes SOS that you have already played.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I think that's correct regarding KenPom. NCAA's official NET SOS numbers appear to be the same.

Something seems off about Bracketologists' numbers. They have Dayton's overall NET OOC SOS ranking at 220. Dayton's current official NET OOC SOS ranking according to the NCAA is 47, and there's no way their remaining games against #108 Oakland and #86 Longwood could drop their SOS that much.
 
SFspidur said:
Yeah, I think that's correct regarding KenPom. NCAA's official NET SOS numbers appear to be the same.

Something seems off about Bracketologists' numbers. They have Dayton's overall NET OOC SOS ranking at 220. Dayton's current official NET OOC SOS ranking according to the NCAA is 47, and there's no way their remaining games against #108 Oakland and #86 Longwood could drop their SOS that much.
Click to expand...
Which is odd because I'm sure they are just trying to pull it from the NCAA...
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderLaw
Well - part of the problem is you have to be good recently and consistently to get good games. Otherwise - we get viewed as a not so good team, but dangerous enough we could pull out a win - and if we were to upset a good team - it could really hurt them if we go off and have a .500 season. If you win consistently - that fear goes away because you become a game that would be a good win for the opponent, but even if they lose - its not a resume killer.

Generally speaking - we have on average 13 OOC games a year.

2 of those games (sometimes 3) are part of an event. This will largely be based on how well we have done recently. Win more, and you get invited to better events. These should be good games for us - top 100 type games at a minimum.

3 low games -these should be buy games or local games with lower end teams. VMI, Siena, Queens fall into this category.

4-5 Medium games - these should be games, that should be around top 100-150 games. Maybe mid-major teams, or lower division teams who could do well in their conference. This could be a Wichita State, Northern Iowa, or maybe a lower level team expected to do well in their league - JMU, Liberty has been really good lately, Longwood won a lot of games - these are just local examples, but you could also look to Hofstra (won CAA last year), Princeton and Yale have been atop the Ivy lately, Iona, Toledo, etc.

2-3 P6 games - these need to be games on our own with bigger conference opponents. This year we got Florida and BC. You can get by with 2, but it is likely then adding a game to medium bucket above.

Some of the medium bucket games will pan out - some will not. But if you hit .500 with those games - meaning if you schedule 5 of them and 3 of them turn out to be good teams, and 2 turn into duds - your okay.
 
Colorado should, of course, be added to the BC & Florida group.

So, the idea is to schedule enough lower level teams to earn a good record so that you are then a good enough team next year to have the ability to schedule good teams?
 
Colorado is part of the 2 game event. I keep that separate because I think UR falls into this trap of relying on that event to supply us the good games we need on our schedule. Some years - that works out. But some years - those games are not so good. And you can't just rely on those games along. That is why I think you need to get into an event - but in addition to that - we need to schedule 2-3 more P6 games on our each year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: brooklyn brownstone, Eight Legger and urfan1
To Lafayette's defense - they did lose Quinn to UR and they had another player last year transfer to Penn State.
 
we're not alone in having trouble getting good games.
GMU plays Bridgewater College tonight.
and SDSU (a final 4 team) plays Saint Katherine tonight after already playing Point Loma Nazarene.
 
Yes, when I look at ESPN scores, nightly I see a lot of D1 teams playing non D1 games. Some of the scores are hideous. SDSU usually seems to play one non d1 local team annually - played 2 this year, but also played or play Washington, St mary's , Cal, Gonzaga, Stanford. Again, I wonder if these non D1 games count either way in metrics? Obviously if you were to lose one it could look pretty bad, but not sure if affects your kenpom, net, etc?
 
They are excluded from all of the metrics, but I assume a loss would still raise eyebrows with the committee.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23
Not sure when these games are scheduled. In August not one eyebrow would have been raised after seeing them on the schedule.

Buffalo has been a very representative MAC program over the past decade, with NCAA appearances and wins. They had an off-season coaching change so I assume they had some roster attrition.

Lafayette has been a middle-of-the-road Patriot League team, IIRC. It made the Patriot League championship game last year.

So it's highly unusual for both teams to be this bad. But, never miss a chance to take a shot at Mooney, even for things he has no control over.
 
McNeese State beat Mississippi College of Women or something like that by about 80. I assume the other team was a men's team, but kind of an odd situation for them going to a school with that name.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: gospidersgo
Siena wasn't a true buy game even though they got paid. It was forced on us as part of the daytona tourney. re: scheduling I've said b4 but this I think is our biggest issue. We almost always have to take a bad game or 2 to get 1 or 2 good ones neutral. Would be nice for to have more scheduling control even tho u will always have some of these low NET games, at least we could choose to have 1 less at minimum. We never get in the 3 game all neutral site tourneys like a VCU. Now VCU has earned that, but other A10 teams get them too.

Mooney is beholden to his agent at Gazelle Group, maybe some off the books agreement they have idk but we r too regularly in those imo. Get in the better OOC tourneys and that is 1 immediate improvement.

Also we discussed Buffalo and others plenty in offseason. It's not hard to project these days. No doubt our staff has data and follows prospects of teams, it's their job. So Wood I agree that Buff has been a very representative MAC program for a while, but we also knew they were bad last year and projected to be worse this year, so I disagree it didn't raise 1 eyebrow. Overall we'd get better luck with Buffalo other years tho.
 
Mooney talked about scheduling at the end of the Behind the Web show with Bob Black last night. Question came up due to the game this week being on Thursday instead of the usual Wednesday. He said the usual points that it is tough to schedule and only getting tougher with the P6 primarily scheduling OOC games with other P6 schools. That is the real point here. UR can’t get better games because it plays in the A10. The only way it can do better is to finish better than Dayton and VCU every year.

The one positive with the schedule is that it only includes D1 opponents, even though many are at the bottom of the barrel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider fan
GKiller said:
Siena wasn't a true buy game even though they got paid. It was forced on us as part of the daytona tourney. re: scheduling I've said b4 but this I think is our biggest issue. We almost always have to take a bad game or 2 to get 1 or 2 good ones neutral. Would be nice for to have more scheduling control even tho u will always have some of these low NET games, at least we could choose to have 1 less at minimum. We never get in the 3 game all neutral site tourneys like a VCU. Now VCU has earned that, but other A10 teams get them too.

Mooney is beholden to his agent at Gazelle Group, maybe some off the books agreement they have idk but we r too regularly in those imo. Get in the better OOC tourneys and that is 1 immediate improvement.

Also we discussed Buffalo and others plenty in offseason. It's not hard to project these days. No doubt our staff has data and follows prospects of teams, it's their job. So Wood I agree that Buff has been a very representative MAC program for a while, but we also knew they were bad last year and projected to be worse this year, so I disagree it didn't raise 1 eyebrow. Overall we'd get better luck with Buffalo other years tho.
Click to expand...
I agree - some of this scheduling is predicting the future, and the transfer portal probably makes that a little harder - but thats why you have a person on the staff probably now a days dedicated to scheduling as the bulk of their duties - and some of that is looking at teams, their roster, and where you project they will be in a year or 2 in advance as some of these games are scheduled that far ahead. But some games are scheduled 1 year before - so not too hard to predict those teams.
 
  • Like
Reactions: urfan1
GKiller said:
Also we discussed Buffalo and others plenty in offseason. It's not hard to project these days. No doubt our staff has data and follows prospects of teams, it's their job. So Wood I agree that Buff has been a very representative MAC program for a while, but we also knew they were bad last year and projected to be worse this year, so I disagree it didn't raise 1 eyebrow. Overall we'd get better luck with Buffalo other years tho.
Click to expand...
Blue Ribbon projected Buffalo to be 6th (of 12) in the MAC, and Siena 6th (of 11) in the MAAC.
Lafayette was picked 7th (of 10) in the Patriot.

so none were projected as powerhouses, but they were all expected to be better than they have been this year.
 
If that was their projections - then these are those sub games we are talking about. When playing Patriot league, MAC, or MAAC type schools - we should be looking to play teams that will finish top 3 in those leagues. Not to say that means they will be a great resume win for us - but typically speaking - that means they have a chance to win a lot of games and make the NCAA by winning their tourney.

Good example - we were playing Bucknell, and losing to them regularly - when Bucknell was making a good run in the Patriot league. That is a good game for us because its a very winnable game, and one that COULD end up being a good win for us. Drake last year was another good example.

Princeton would have been a good game this year, especially after their run last year in the NCAA tourney. And they are playing well this year and looking at their roster - they should return (assuming no transfers) 4 of their top 6 players - so calling them now to play next year would be a good idea. JMU - for example, will likely not be a good game next year because they lose just about everyone from their team this year. So that would be a gamble and you would hope they get a lot of transfers coming in. So I would probably stay away from them. UNC-W is having a good year, but similar to JMU - they will lose about everyone in their rotation after this year.

So yes -its a gamble to point. And the portal is making it harder. BUT - its possible to make a good schedule. But lets also be honest - our schedule is not the problem this year. We are just not a very good team right now at this point in the season. Not consistent enough, not shooting well enough and our defense disappears at times. Our schedule has nothing to do with that.
 
spiderman said:
Blue Ribbon projected Buffalo to be 6th (of 12) in the MAC, and Siena 6th (of 11) in the MAAC.
Lafayette was picked 7th (of 10) in the Patriot.

so none were projected as powerhouses, but they were all expected to be better than they have been this year.
Click to expand...

& they could still still finish there or higher technically. Blue Ribbon was just picking league finish. That’s just 1 projection too, tho I respect Blue Ribbon. Issue is maac and patriot r bad leagues. So kinda what Trap is saying, if u r a back half of team in those leagues u will have a bad NET regardless. And with Buffalo no I can’t say anyone would have them ~350 Net like they r now but I think they were around 200 last year and expected to be worse so 250+ is not at all a surprise.
 
I just don't think the schedule is ever the problem. it's losses that are the problem.
JMU's schedule sucks outside of 6-5 Michigan St. they just played NET 353 Buffalo, NET 335 Hampton and NET 360 Coppin State. next they play NET 348 Morgan State. and yet they're ranked. because they're winning.
just win, baby.

yes, Princeton would be a good win. I'd like to play them, realizing there's also a good chance it would be a loss. there are no good losses.

safe assumption we're not getting an at-large this year. but it won't be because our schedule wasn't hard enough.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SpiderDogg
It appears that Buffalo lost everyone except for 2 guys from last year's team when the coach was fired in March. They had guys transfer to UTEP, Iowa State, Central Florida, Arkansas State, Seton Hall, Dayton, IUPUI, ODU, Boston College and Norfolk State. So I guess that explains their situation. Their new coach was a 15-year assistant to Jay Wright at Villanova and he played collegiately for the Babson College Beavers, which can't possibly be the name of a real team.

Not sure what the deal is with Lafayette.
 
long time, well respected coach Fran O'Hanlan retired after the 2022 season.
new hire Mike Jordan was suspended after going 9-20 when a player wrote a letter claiming he was abusive.
they replaced him with a new guy this year. some players left. Jordan is suing Lafayette alleging racial discrimination and wrongful termination.

I wanted us to offer Lafayette player Leo O'Boyle when he announced he was grad transferring last spring. 1,000 point scorer who shot 41% from 3 as a senior. shows what I know! he's scoring 3.3 ppg for Penn State in 13 mpg.
 
  • Like
Reactions: spider23
Looks like they lost some good talent. Stand out freshman wing Josh Rivera transferred to Fordham and is averaging 11 pts 5 boards.

lafayettestudentnews.com

Men’s basketball sees three key players transfer after successful season

In keeping with the roller-coaster of a year that saw it go on a seven-game losing streak, suspend a head coach, appoint a new one and reach the Patriot League Tournament Final, the Lafayette men’s basketball team will go into next season with three key players on other college squads. The...
lafayettestudentnews.com lafayettestudentnews.com
 
spiderman said:
I just don't think the schedule is ever the problem. it's losses that are the problem.
JMU's schedule sucks outside of 6-5 Michigan St. they just played NET 353 Buffalo, NET 335 Hampton and NET 360 Coppin State. next they play NET 348 Morgan State. and yet they're ranked. because they're winning.
just win, baby.

yes, Princeton would be a good win. I'd like to play them, realizing there's also a good chance it would be a loss. there are no good losses.

safe assumption we're not getting an at-large this year. but it won't be because our schedule wasn't hard enough.
Click to expand...

Just win baby. I’m in favor. Can u tell someone at U of R? Because we have that 55% two decade issue. U either get a coach who can win more w same kind of players or get a coach who can win more by getting better players.

We’ve had the do u schedule harder discussion b4 - I’m admittedly a subscriber to the schedule tougher approach - but I don’t really think that was the context here.

U and 8legger hit on the Buff and Lafayette issues. Those would have been well known to staff.
 
Eight Legger said:
It appears that Buffalo lost everyone except for 2 guys from last year's team when the coach was fired in March. They had guys transfer to UTEP, Iowa State, Central Florida, Arkansas State, Seton Hall, Dayton, IUPUI, ODU, Boston College and Norfolk State. So I guess that explains their situation. Their new coach was a 15-year assistant to Jay Wright at Villanova and he played collegiately for the Babson College Beavers, which can't possibly be the name of a real team.

Not sure what the deal is with Lafayette.
Click to expand...
You have never heard of Babs Beavers? ;)
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Eight Legger
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

spider23

OT: Bill Walton passes

Replies
6
Views
704
UR Basketball Board
bullfrog91
B
Anachnid

The bidding wars

Replies
1
Views
514
UR Basketball Board
MrTbone
MrTbone
C

Box and One

Replies
11
Views
1K
UR Basketball Board
plydogg
plydogg
SFspidur

Davidson women cancel remainder of their season

Replies
30
Views
2K
UR Basketball Board
spider23
spider23
spider23

Mike Walz - Player Eval

Replies
23
Views
2K
UR Basketball Board
Not-A-Homer
Not-A-Homer
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back