If you can hit 70% from inside, no matter who is guarding you, then you need to shoot 47% from three to be taking them.
Not saying that is Grant...
28%=42% layup
36%=54%
47%=70.5%
Andre Weir
- Thread starter spider23
- Start date
Not saying that is Grant...
28%=42% layup
36%=54%
47%=70.5%
Completely agree, but he was much more freely shooting them last year and said after last year it was the one thing he wanted to improve on most. I'm glad that someone talked with him and had him work on other aspects of his game that made him a much bigger weapon than his 3 point shot.
Also, when your big is shooting 3's, it eliminates your best offensive rebounding player. I realize we don't emphasize offensive rebounding that much anyway, but basically if that shot doesn't go in, it is essentially a turnover.
Grant's game from this year to last grew on so many levels and he is a much more complete player now. I'm excited to see how it further evolves next year.
when Grant shoots from midrange, that eliminates our best offensive rebounder too. but it's not a problem since he shoots midrange at a solid percentage.
I like the concept of a big who can shoot from outside. it will usually be a clean look and it draws out the best defensive rebounder. but after 3 years, you are what you are. and 3 point shooting isn't Grant's strength.
watching Grace's form, I really thought that was going to be a successful part of his game. so far it's not. watching Sal's form, I don't think he should shoot out there either. and from Andre's highlight tape ... same thing. and that's ok. we have other guys who can shoot.
Weir is a no-brainer. He plays early and often unless he is just woefully under skilled and major league not ready. He has been brought in to be the future big. He has 1-year to play under/with Golden, and then he is the man. For this reason, Weir plays NOW.
Grace and Sal mostly sit. Neither of them have shown that they are "the man" material. You can't rely on them to lead your team in 21-22. For this reason, they find themselves on the bench as back-up players. It is not about nice guy or mean guy, it is about the future of the program.
If Mooney doesn't get Weir ready quickly ..... shame on him, he'll be cutting his own throat.
Grace and Sal mostly sit. Neither of them have shown that they are "the man" material. You can't rely on them to lead your team in 21-22. For this reason, they find themselves on the bench as back-up players. It is not about nice guy or mean guy, it is about the future of the program.
If Mooney doesn't get Weir ready quickly ..... shame on him, he'll be cutting his own throat.
We could have one of our best teams ever in 2020-2021. Why should we worry about the following year next year? If Weir is ahead of the other back ups, he plays. If not, he waits.
It is real simple. Anyone who doesn't see the need for Weir to be brought on quickly has blinders on. Neither Grace nor Sal have shown that they are capable of leading a winning team in the A-10 and beyond. If the Spiders are relying on them for future, then the future is bleak. Hence my earlier comment.
It is real simple. Anyone who doesn't see the need for Weir to be brought on quickly has blinders on. Neither Grace nor Sal have shown that they are capable of leading a winning team in the A-10 and beyond. If the Spiders are relying on them for future, then the future is bleak. Hence my earlier comment.
I'm hoping that Andre will get a majority of the Sal/Matt minutes this year. I agree with Not-A-Homer in the fact that Sal or Grace are going to get it done in A-10 play. Let's roll with the guy that is going to be taking Grant's spot and build for the future.
If Weir beats out Grace and Sal and is the best back up option early in the year, he plays. If he is the best option toward the middle of the year, he plays. If he is the best option at the end of the year, he plays. If not, we stay with what worked last season, and see what happens in Weir's sophomore year. He should not play just to play. He could still be more than ready to start and be our main big in his second year even if he is not the main back up this year. Look at Grant his true freshman year. He only played the first few games before his health scare, but was more than ready to take over in year 2. When Weir is ready, he plays. Sure, we can hope it is sooner rather than later, but he has to be ready to help us when he plays.
Regardless to what Homer/Ch-Spider says, Grace and Sal have both done a lot to help this team based on the minutes they got. We need to give them time as their junior year approaches, if we do play 20-21 to show what they are made of. More power to them both and to Weir as our future.
Last edited:
First Sal is more a 4 and did not have the body to take on bigger centers. Grace had bigger body but lacked quickness. In both cases they gave Grant breathers and sometimes really contributed doing the little things.
At times Cayo would move over to 5 and Burton would play 4 with Sherod at 3 and usually Gus and Gilyard at guard. This group played good D and held their own. Let’s don’t rush Weir to front of line just yet. First of all if he has to learn the system on both ends of the court. We have a lot more depth so practice competition should be pretty intense.
It has been repeatedly proven that players at the back of the line do not normally "learn the system" as quickly as those who play early and often. This is one of the main justifications to play Weir ahead of Grace and Sal. We can likely agree that you should get to the front of the line by being a better player, or by showing more long-term potential.
For those who like to disagree without understanding what was actually said, Grace and Sal have shown that their skill level is not capable of winning big in the A-10 and beyond. If you have any sort of eye for the game, it will be hard to argue this point. Doesn't mean that they can't be contributors to the team.
It is a poster's prerogative to hope that things will get better for certain players. Hope is a strategy for performance (success), but it normally isn't a good enough tactic to bet your future on. "Hope in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first" is a saying that has the ring of truth to it for a reason. Hope could possibly work, strange things happen, BUT ........
It should be noted that I said previously that Weir plays now UNLESS he is just woefully under skilled and major league not ready. This does not mean that if he is currently at a high school 10th grade level he gets to play regardless. That is not what I said, and that is not what was meant. His size, rep, recruiting status, and the excitement of his new coaches make it reasonable to believe that he is at a higher level coming in.
Another justification for playing Weir right away is that he will improve faster by playing more game minutes with better players. Getting game experience with Gilyard, Francis, Sherod, and Cayo will make him a better player sooner. He has only 1 season with/under Golden. It will be foolish to waste the opportunity by "bringing Weir along slowly."
Truth is, Weir was brought here for his perceived upside. He has 1-year to get ready to be a focal point player. If he doesn't develop quickly, and Grace is your main big in the following season, the Spiders will be in big trouble. Again, that is not being mean to Grace (seems like a nice guy) it is basketball 101.
For those who like to disagree without understanding what was actually said, Grace and Sal have shown that their skill level is not capable of winning big in the A-10 and beyond. If you have any sort of eye for the game, it will be hard to argue this point. Doesn't mean that they can't be contributors to the team.
It is a poster's prerogative to hope that things will get better for certain players. Hope is a strategy for performance (success), but it normally isn't a good enough tactic to bet your future on. "Hope in one hand, shit in the other, see which one fills up first" is a saying that has the ring of truth to it for a reason. Hope could possibly work, strange things happen, BUT ........
It should be noted that I said previously that Weir plays now UNLESS he is just woefully under skilled and major league not ready. This does not mean that if he is currently at a high school 10th grade level he gets to play regardless. That is not what I said, and that is not what was meant. His size, rep, recruiting status, and the excitement of his new coaches make it reasonable to believe that he is at a higher level coming in.
Another justification for playing Weir right away is that he will improve faster by playing more game minutes with better players. Getting game experience with Gilyard, Francis, Sherod, and Cayo will make him a better player sooner. He has only 1 season with/under Golden. It will be foolish to waste the opportunity by "bringing Weir along slowly."
Truth is, Weir was brought here for his perceived upside. He has 1-year to get ready to be a focal point player. If he doesn't develop quickly, and Grace is your main big in the following season, the Spiders will be in big trouble. Again, that is not being mean to Grace (seems like a nice guy) it is basketball 101.
Let me see if I can figure out how much we agree and disagree on this. We might not be that far off. Of course, I agree that Weir doesn't play if he is what you underlined above, and I think most anyone would. I also agree that if Weir shows from day 1 he is the better option, of course he plays. I am also fine with playing Weir if he and Grace are the same, and Weir shows he is ready to help. But, what if he is skilled and "almost ready"? But, not as ready as Grace? This is where I see things at the beginning of the year. Grace will be in year 3 backing up Grant, improved greatly, and did not hurt us when out there. We will again have plenty of other scoring options out there when Grant's back ups are out there. We don't need them to score, but want them to know the system and make the right decisions offensively and defensively so everyone else can do their thing. Do we just throw that experience away in the need to play Weir, even if it means Weir makes one or two more mistakes than Grace? That would be foolish. As time goes by, if Weir shows he is ready and is our better option, he moves ahead of Grace. If he is ready sooner rather than later, he plays. Sounds like you are saying play Weir regardless, as long as he is not what you underlined above, even if it means Grace is the better option. I definitely disagree with this thinking. We need to worry about next year, not 2 years from now. Do you think our 5 member senior class would rather worry about 2 years from now than next year? You have to give yourself the best chance to win games.
One option I would consider is have Weir work with Grant and Grace and keep Sal with Nate. This would give Weir more reps in practice and more time to learn. Also,this could give Weir the extra minutes Sal got last year backing up Grant, even if he starts the year behind Grace. And, I think Sal could benefit by focusing on Nate's game and learning from him.
We won 13 games by 15+ points this year...I sure hope we have enough breathing room to give a decent amount of floor time to a guy who might make a few mistakes.
Of course, the back-up position isn't just going to be given to Weir. It's just that all of us have seen what Grace does in the back-up position for us for 2 years. And while Grace has gotten better the past 2 years for sure, the bar to beat him out is just not that high. And if Weir is our heir apparent to replace Grant, the following year, I think he will exceed that bar early in his freshman season.
Anyone who thinks that the bar for back-up player on an NCAA tournament team is just not to hurt us while they are out there isn't getting it. Reserves have to come and not just not mess up, but make plays on their own. Grace and Sal have not shown they can do that yet.
Just watching tape on Weir and his interest level, I thinl he is gonna make plays out there.
Anyone who thinks that the bar for back-up player on an NCAA tournament team is just not to hurt us while they are out there isn't getting it. Reserves have to come and not just not mess up, but make plays on their own. Grace and Sal have not shown they can do that yet.
Just watching tape on Weir and his interest level, I thinl he is gonna make plays out there.
I remember a guy on a particular team that was doing anything to help his team until near the end of his junior year, then he explored his senior year. He became one of the top players in the Big Ten and a lottery pick. I am not saying that Grace will reach that level but who knows. He is going to come back this summer a different upgraded player. I know a tall order, just dreaming.
I kinda agree w 4700 here. Keep in mind the 5 spot is harder to learn on our team b/c it has a lot of responsibilities. Weir is an unknown to me. Grace showed me enough to trust him. I think the O still moves pretty well with him, he can pass. He's not Kwesi who you couldn't even give the ball to. And he's got two years experience and showed some improvement. Now you can say that's a low bar fine I get that but u need role guys. Fact is when he's out there he has 4 other guys that are better options to score. When Weir plays the same will remain true. If he's flat out better it's a great problem to have. I like his upside but his fresh year likely will be developmental. There will be more opportunities than normal, presumably, because we have a really good team and will have more easy wins. But with our depth there is only so much PT, and I don't think he beats out Grace for what Mooney will want next season.
I agree with this statement. Mooney likes guys in back-up roles who "know" his system and don't mess up. That is largely Grace, particularly on offense. He passes well, doesn't shoot unless it is a wide open look and doesn't turn it over. All good things in Mooney's vision of a back up center, particularly when we can surround him with 4 good scoring options. .
However, if you watch Grace on defense, you will see that despite his size, other teams will immediately attack him in the interior, backing him down in the low post, often times with success. His lack a level of aggressiveness and perhaps strengths makes him exploitable on defense.
I haven't seen Weir in a college game, but he appears to be a big strong kid. If Weir wants minutes, he makes his impact on defense, because I do agree that Grace is giving Mooney, what Mooney wants on offense
seems like a great kid. nice interview ... other than whoever was typing throughout!
love how our big man play sells the program to future big men. Grant for Andre, and certainly TJ for Grant.
love how our big man play sells the program to future big men. Grant for Andre, and certainly TJ for Grant.
In those clips, Grace looks like he has given up on earning playing time. With that lack of effort, I guess we may see more of Sal this year.
not sure if Sal's even competing at the backup 5 spot anymore with Weir here.
he's probably fighting Burton at the 4 behind Nathan ... and I gotta think that's a tough fight for Sal.
if Sal looks really good you can move Burton behind Nick at the 3, but I'm hoping Crabtree is the guy there.
Goose battles Dji behind Blake at the 2 and also Wilson behind Jacob at the 1.
he's probably fighting Burton at the 4 behind Nathan ... and I gotta think that's a tough fight for Sal.
if Sal looks really good you can move Burton behind Nick at the 3, but I'm hoping Crabtree is the guy there.
Goose battles Dji behind Blake at the 2 and also Wilson behind Jacob at the 1.
I don't think Grace was really supposed to be playing much defense in those drills. Looked more like some positioning drills for the offense rather than a legit one-on-one thing. But of course I would expect Weir to be better than Grace soon, if not already, since he was much more highly touted.
Goose isn't really battling those guys imo. He's got an established valuable role. Sure open comp and all that but if he's getting beat out we may be a top 10 team. If anything we should find Goose a few more minutes. I agree with u about Sal not being in mix at the 5.
I fully expect Goose to play. just saying that's his comp. young guys come in. job is to steal someone's minutes. sometimes you can, sometimes you can't. let's see what kind of game Dji and Isaiah have.
If Sal is still Competing for 5spot minutes then something has gone horribly wrong.
Could ease the pressure on Weir next season.
Paul Atkinson Yale in transfer portal.
Yale's Paul Atkinson, the Ivy League co-Player of the Year, says he will transfer this spring
www.espn.com
www.espn.com
Paul Atkinson Yale in transfer portal.
Yale's Paul Atkinson, the Ivy League co-Player of the Year, says he will transfer this spring
Yale's Atkinson, Ivy co-POY, to transfer in spring
Yale big man Paul Atkinson announced on Monday he plans to transfer in the spring after graduating. He was the Ivy League's co-Player of the Year last season, averaging 17.6 points and 7.3 rebounds.
Paul Atkinson Jr. - Notre Dame Fighting Irish Forward - ESPN
View the profile of Notre Dame Fighting Irish Forward Paul Atkinson Jr. on ESPN. Get the latest news, live stats and game highlights.
Atkinson would be a huge pick up, seems like all these IVY big men tend to go p6 though - same problem with big men as always. We definitely should be in the market though.
lol. at the risk of being bashed as a non-believer fan who doesn't set my sights high enough ...
So this thought and some of the other surrounding comments highlights a Mooney "problem" I have that I hope won't be repeated. Mooney likes guys who don't mess up in "complimentary" roles. Its far more for him about what you DON"T do (mess up - - especially on offense) than what you DO do (make plays!!). And he is clear on this in both how he actually coaches and how he doles out playing time.
I don't want Weir competing with Grace for 8 minutes a night where the winner is based solely on who messes up the least. I want Weir training to make plays and is essence to be Grant, not Grant's back-up. This is my single biggest thing I hate about Mooney is so much emphasis on not to mess up (and in fact punishing messing up in all but a few players) and not how to go make plays. Learning to be a play maker and actual impact player will mean making mistakes - - - its as simple as that. They need to make 'em and learn from 'em. Most 18-19 year olds will really struggle when their whole first year or two is spent teaching them to never mess up, no matter what and then the next year asking them to be a playmaker. Some can do it. Many can not. Its certainly easier to go the other way - - - learn to make plays etc. and them get rid of the mistakes (i.e. learn from your mistakes - - not learn than mistakes get you a seat on the bench). Deon Taylor was the poster child for this. Earned playing time early by not messing up and then spent all 4 years doing exactly that while never advancing to making plays. And why would he - - he was continually rewarded (to the bewilderment of many) for simply knowing where to go and where to be all the time.
Don't want this to be Weir. Train him to be Grant - - a focal point and aggressive player. If the key to being Grants backup right now is not messing up, so be it and let Grace have it. But don't start weir thinking about avoiding messing up as his biggest objective. As time goes on, Weir will learn to make plays and mess up less. Andre gets to play when he makes enough plays that it offsets his mistakes - - - not when he simply learns not to mess up.
