Fan1 great point about the overhead. Doctors will also tell you that the #1 cost in their overhead is malpractice insurance and it is also growing at the fastest rate. That is what tort reform needs to help. Tort reform has significantly helped the English medical system. Yes it also probably needs to be tied into better licensing requirements for doctors.
A PROPOSAL
- Thread starter tarrantula
- Start date
T, the problem is that spending needs to be cut BIG TIME. then you can look at other things to do to tweak but if spending is not controlled then any discussions or actions are useless. typically in washington, when they are discussing cutting, they are talking about cutting the increase in a dept's budget, not talking about actually cutting the darn dept back. we are going to spend $1.5 trillion more than we take in this year. if you took all of the rich people's money, would not put a dent in it so why even talk about increasing taxes on the wealthy? just get spending under control and then if there are those who feel that the rich just have to pay more to be fair or make them feel better, go for it. do the thing that needs to be done first then figure out how to punish the achievers, the wagon pullers.
Spinner, you make a good point. Both parties spend too much time arguing minor points and not addressing the major ones. You are right, if we increase the tax on the wealthy, the resulting revenue increase is a drop in the ocean. Should the super rich pay more in taxes? Perhaps, but that is not a solution. The only solution is to stop "printing money" and going farther into debt. You and I cannot spend more that we earn. If we do, we lose our house. I cannot understand why our elected officials have so much trouble understanding this point. As I said earlier, I am a proponent of "re-elect no one." Since it appears that once elected to do the people's work, the number one job seems to be to get re-elected, term limits would go a long way toward actually making these folks work for a living. Mr. Obama is no longer our President; he is a candidate for President and getting re-elected is his only focus. It happens with every first term President.
Obamacare is a slippery slope. If the federal government can require that we purchase health insurance what will stop it from requiring we buy other things? Article 1, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution limits the power of government. How can Congress under the Commerce Clause regulate nonactivity? Congress can regulate "commerce" i.e. transactions that actually take place.
supreme court has pretty much always upheld the commerce clause when it comes to screwing the people and will not be surprised if they do it again.
Lets start with Foreign Policy- Our Reverse Imperialism-America the Policeman of the World and every other countries credit card. Ex: We go into Iraq, lose people, spends gobs and gobs of money on an unfounded war and we still have to bend over to pay for their oil. And yes, I'm for alternative fuels, the President's solar energy debacle aside. Nothing would please me more than to turn our backs on the ME.
Gen'l, "screwing the people" - surely you must have in mind the use of the commerce clause to forbid interstate prostitution, The Mann Act, (a slight delimma in Nevada).
Here Come the Chickens Home to Roost
Gen'l, "screwing the people" - surely you must have in mind the use of the commerce clause to forbid interstate prostitution, The Mann Act, (a slight delimma in Nevada).
Here Come the Chickens Home to Roost
i love prostitution, especially going across state lines! just saying the feds get the nod and that clause is so broad and self-serving.
I appreciate the conversation. Differing views, but no name calling so far. I got up at 6:30 to begin gathering info to put on here concerning how various countries treat taxing and spending and how they are doing debt wise. My wife just came by and told me that she wants me to take her to Roanoke, so best laid plans get put aside for the moment. It is very difficult to compare tax rates worldwide because tax laws are complex and vary greatly around the world. One thing that I did notice(based on data gathered in 2005) is that the US and Japan are unique in that their corporate tax rates are about 10% higher than rates for personal income taxes. Most other industrial nations are the opposite..in Germany, France, Italy and the Scandanavian countries the personal tax rates are at least 10% higher than corporate rates. Also, looked quickly at tax revenue as per cent of GDP. US, Japan and China have percentages below 30%, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Germany, France and Scandanavian countries all 40% or higher. I got figures on the national debt of several countries, but now have to convert those figures from their currency to ours. Gotta go to Roanoke. To be continued.
This post was edited on 5/26 9:45 AM by tarrantula
This post was edited on 5/26 9:45 AM by tarrantula
well corporate taxes are humorous since the corporation only acts as a conduit for passing the money along to the govt. the people pay that tax too, just is not positioned that way. none of this discussion matters much anyway, i believe in smaller limited govt, you believe the opposite, neither of us will change those views, just like the legislators in dc. at some point though, things will have to change or we sink, pretty simple.
Especially when the corp sends profits offshore and then lobbies (and at great expense but not compared to the tax savings) hard for the government to lower the offshore, bring it on home tax rate, every few years so the money can be brought back more cheaply. I'm for severe cuts but believe the overseas give aways is the place to start.
people and corporations try everything they can to pay less taxes, what in the heck is wrong with that? why don't you guys just take all of OUR money. would rather not have a partner who takes my money like that but that is just me. there are still communist countries out there, cuba, n. korea, china and bet they would all take immigrants.
I join with Anach in the feeling that the first correction needs to be in foreign aid. I have always been a fan of Ron Paul because of his advocacy of that philosophy and, as I have mentioned before, voted for him for President several years ago. Number 2 in my book would be our "policeman of the world" expensive habit. We went to war in Viet Nam during my youth to prevent the spread of communism which was seen as a threat to our national security. Fought at great expense in money and human lives. I was in the infantry during that time and every Memorial Day I take the "Green Book" of our KIAs I purchased at The Wall and look at the names of friends who were with me during the training who were killed in the fighting. We lost that war; not from a lack of valor by our troops, but (IMO) from strategy that did not comprehend the situation. It turned out that the spread of communism was not the spectre it had been made out to be and has died on its own vine or mutated to less agressive models around the globe.
Ironically, our good capitalistic manufacturers jumped in bed with those Asian communist countries full of cheap labor and moved their factories to China and Viet Nam. The furniture that formerly was made here in Martinsville, is still being manufactured by the same companies, only it is now done at plants in Asia. Several of my good friends from here have been living in Viet Nam for the past several years Good news on that front in my neighborhood this morning as our local paper quotes a local industrialist as saying he expects manufacturers to start moving plants from China and Viet Nam to our area again.
Although we have moved on from the fight against Communism, we continue to be constantly fighting on some front. We were attacked in our home land and the country was united in the desire to see that those attackers were found and punished. The death of Osama has brought some solace to the families of his victims. Nonetheless, if you look at our history after WWII, you see a long line of military involvements around the world:
1950...Korean War; 1961..Cuba; 1961-1973..Viet Nam; 1965...Dominican Republic; 1982..Lebanon; 1983...Grenada; 1989...Panama; 1991(Desert Storm)..Iraq; 1993...Somalia: 1994...Haiti; 1994...Bosnia; 1999...Kosovo; 2001-present...Afghanistan; 2003-2010(Iraqui Freedom).This does not include a long list of situations where we sent smaller groups of troops and planes to quiet a situation in some foreighn land.
I am not saying that any of these actions were not warranted..I'm not informed enough to make a valid judgment in that regard.However, I believe that financial concerns require prudence and a demand for cooperation from other nations in these maters. I wonder about our involvement in Iraqui Freedom. The CIA acknowledged a few years ago that Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction and that there was never any hard evidence that they had such weapons. I also wonder why it is necessary that we maintain troops in Germany and other parts of Europe that were put there after WWII to make sure that peace was maintained. The Cold War has dimished with the fall of communism in Eastern Europe..our current dangers seem to arise in the Mideast and Afghanistan.
A pie chart of Federal Spending for 2012 that I examined showed these slices of the pie: Defense...24%; Health...22; Pensions...22%; Welfare 12%; Miscellaneous...20%. There are as many varieties of predictions for the future as there are predictors. The Federal budget for 2013 as submitted would call for $2,902 trillion in revenue and $3,803 trillion in expenditures. Leaving a deficit of $901 billion. Despite Spinner's advocacy of cuts in pensions, I would expect that actions in that area would be prospective only in application. I would expect both parties to sense that cutting Social Security benefits for folks who have paid into the fund for more than 40 years to be political suicide. I think that all of us agree that the deficit needs to be reduced before we find ourselves on the edge of bankruptcy...the arguement is how and where to do that. I hope that all of you will continue to comment on these matters on this "Off Topic" site and that each of us can broaden our prospective from the discussions. I also hope that everyone will be respectful of disagreement and not take the arguments personally. I have just begun my research and will continue to post info from articles that I find from topic search in Google. Many of you guys have economic knowledge that far exceeds my own, I hope that you will participate in the discussion.
This post was edited on 5/27 12:01 PM by tarrantula
This post was edited on 5/27 12:08 PM by tarrantula
Ironically, our good capitalistic manufacturers jumped in bed with those Asian communist countries full of cheap labor and moved their factories to China and Viet Nam. The furniture that formerly was made here in Martinsville, is still being manufactured by the same companies, only it is now done at plants in Asia. Several of my good friends from here have been living in Viet Nam for the past several years Good news on that front in my neighborhood this morning as our local paper quotes a local industrialist as saying he expects manufacturers to start moving plants from China and Viet Nam to our area again.
Although we have moved on from the fight against Communism, we continue to be constantly fighting on some front. We were attacked in our home land and the country was united in the desire to see that those attackers were found and punished. The death of Osama has brought some solace to the families of his victims. Nonetheless, if you look at our history after WWII, you see a long line of military involvements around the world:
1950...Korean War; 1961..Cuba; 1961-1973..Viet Nam; 1965...Dominican Republic; 1982..Lebanon; 1983...Grenada; 1989...Panama; 1991(Desert Storm)..Iraq; 1993...Somalia: 1994...Haiti; 1994...Bosnia; 1999...Kosovo; 2001-present...Afghanistan; 2003-2010(Iraqui Freedom).This does not include a long list of situations where we sent smaller groups of troops and planes to quiet a situation in some foreighn land.
I am not saying that any of these actions were not warranted..I'm not informed enough to make a valid judgment in that regard.However, I believe that financial concerns require prudence and a demand for cooperation from other nations in these maters. I wonder about our involvement in Iraqui Freedom. The CIA acknowledged a few years ago that Iraq never had weapons of mass destruction and that there was never any hard evidence that they had such weapons. I also wonder why it is necessary that we maintain troops in Germany and other parts of Europe that were put there after WWII to make sure that peace was maintained. The Cold War has dimished with the fall of communism in Eastern Europe..our current dangers seem to arise in the Mideast and Afghanistan.
A pie chart of Federal Spending for 2012 that I examined showed these slices of the pie: Defense...24%; Health...22; Pensions...22%; Welfare 12%; Miscellaneous...20%. There are as many varieties of predictions for the future as there are predictors. The Federal budget for 2013 as submitted would call for $2,902 trillion in revenue and $3,803 trillion in expenditures. Leaving a deficit of $901 billion. Despite Spinner's advocacy of cuts in pensions, I would expect that actions in that area would be prospective only in application. I would expect both parties to sense that cutting Social Security benefits for folks who have paid into the fund for more than 40 years to be political suicide. I think that all of us agree that the deficit needs to be reduced before we find ourselves on the edge of bankruptcy...the arguement is how and where to do that. I hope that all of you will continue to comment on these matters on this "Off Topic" site and that each of us can broaden our prospective from the discussions. I also hope that everyone will be respectful of disagreement and not take the arguments personally. I have just begun my research and will continue to post info from articles that I find from topic search in Google. Many of you guys have economic knowledge that far exceeds my own, I hope that you will participate in the discussion.
This post was edited on 5/27 12:01 PM by tarrantula
This post was edited on 5/27 12:08 PM by tarrantula
T, first thing i would do is say no money for foreign affairs until we get our house in order, none, then cut all govt checks or direct deposits, ALL, by at least 10%. that would be a good start. then move on to the bureaucracies and start eliminating and cutting, real cutting, not fake cutting. we pay income tax, tax on our investments, death tax, tax, or will again shortly, sales tax, tax on our phone, tax on our cell phone, tax on our cable or dish tv, gas tax, pretty much every thing we do gets taxed. i want to keep as much of MY money as i can, especially when it is going to a bloated, wasteful and out of control entity. will we really be able to slow it down or change its course, probably not. those in dc, dont really want to do what needs to be done because people will get hurt but if we do not, everyone is going to get hurt. it is just common sense that we cannot keep living on other people's money in this manner. at least with a corporation, this is for A, people have a choice to buy from them or not but with the govt, no options, we have to pay them.
Gen'l corps have no loyalty to us as pointed out by T so why give them special treatment (unbeknownst to Rommey, a corporation is not a person)? I dont believe in hindering but dont treat them like they are infallible.
Corps like the govt have many layers of waste. No difference in calling the IRS, DMV, Verizon, Anthem or Comcast, you get voice buttons and incompetent employees. They've all caught on the "How about letting me speak to your supervisor or next higher up?" Probably just get passed on to their neighbor in the next cubicle as they both just lol. Isnt it odd that the best service comes from small companies but the best retail prices from big entities with bloated workforces, like Walmart? Name me a big corp that is run efficiently, offers a good product and proper service?
Corps like the govt have many layers of waste. No difference in calling the IRS, DMV, Verizon, Anthem or Comcast, you get voice buttons and incompetent employees. They've all caught on the "How about letting me speak to your supervisor or next higher up?" Probably just get passed on to their neighbor in the next cubicle as they both just lol. Isnt it odd that the best service comes from small companies but the best retail prices from big entities with bloated workforces, like Walmart? Name me a big corp that is run efficiently, offers a good product and proper service?
corporations are people, been there and done that. there are a few who are not moral or ethical but the majority are and they do want to treat their customers the right way and do business the right way, some are not run well but others are run quite well. know that they don't sit around figuring out how to screw people, just not like that at all but also are not there to lose money and try and keep it streamlined and profitable.
Spinner, we certainly disagree on many details of the needed corrections, but I think that the finished product that each of us desires has many similarities. You, I will concede, have more knowledge of the business world than I. I would probably know more from first hand experience about the difficulties of good folks who do not have the skills to prosper, but deserve a chance to survive in our society. You are cynical about spending on social programs; I am cynical about trusting our corporate moguls to work for the common welfare in a free market economy. Both of us see the perils of the times we live in and understand that if our government, as it was conceived by our founding fathers and as it is decribed in our constitution, fails... then "that rough beast" that T.S. Elliot talks about will be born. We cannot sit back and allow this country to undergo financial bankruptcy... nor can we sit idle and allow it to undergo spiritual bankruptcy. Let's hope that wise men prevail.
This post was edited on 5/27 11:29 PM by tarrantula
This post was edited on 5/27 11:29 PM by tarrantula
Re: GREECE
With all the Greek owned restaurants and festivals, if a % of the proceeds were collected each month and sent to the mother land, then Greece would be bailed out in less then a year.
With all the Greek owned restaurants and festivals, if a % of the proceeds were collected each month and sent to the mother land, then Greece would be bailed out in less then a year.
Re: GREECE
T and A, and i do not mean that sexually, think Bobby Ukrop, Bill Goodwin and thousands more like them who run corporations and who give back to their communities with gusto and who are not out to screw people. do not concentrate on social spending, want ALL spending cut, it just has to be. i grew up poor and know what that is like, also know the fam did not become dependent on someone taking care of us. although the social programs have a wonderful objective, feel we have destroyed so many families and have created a large population dependent on others who will never become productive individuals on their own and break that cycle. would rather find a way to break the dependence than to keep that cycle going. now there are too many votes for some to really want to help people take care of themselves, cannot give up that block.
T and A, and i do not mean that sexually, think Bobby Ukrop, Bill Goodwin and thousands more like them who run corporations and who give back to their communities with gusto and who are not out to screw people. do not concentrate on social spending, want ALL spending cut, it just has to be. i grew up poor and know what that is like, also know the fam did not become dependent on someone taking care of us. although the social programs have a wonderful objective, feel we have destroyed so many families and have created a large population dependent on others who will never become productive individuals on their own and break that cycle. would rather find a way to break the dependence than to keep that cycle going. now there are too many votes for some to really want to help people take care of themselves, cannot give up that block.
Re: GREECE
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin
"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic."
-- Benjamin Franklin
Re: GREECE
I am the product of a mother who demanded that her children be respectful of everyone, regardless of their station in life, and a father whose emphasis was on hard work. She taught me a love for reading; he made sure that I had plenty of summer and after school jobs that left me with aching muscles. In today's world, my Mom would be considered a liberal; my dad a conservative. I think of myself as a "Consiberal" I look back on both of them as exceptional individuals. Neither ever practiced nor advocated discrimination against those of a different philosophy.
I am very encouraged by the disappearance of racial and ethnic separation in my local community in recent years and dismayed by what I perceive as a growing lack of tolerance with differing viewpoints on a National level.
This post was edited on 5/28 12:12 PM by tarrantula
I am the product of a mother who demanded that her children be respectful of everyone, regardless of their station in life, and a father whose emphasis was on hard work. She taught me a love for reading; he made sure that I had plenty of summer and after school jobs that left me with aching muscles. In today's world, my Mom would be considered a liberal; my dad a conservative. I think of myself as a "Consiberal" I look back on both of them as exceptional individuals. Neither ever practiced nor advocated discrimination against those of a different philosophy.
I am very encouraged by the disappearance of racial and ethnic separation in my local community in recent years and dismayed by what I perceive as a growing lack of tolerance with differing viewpoints on a National level.
This post was edited on 5/28 12:12 PM by tarrantula
Re: GREECE
after decades of the democrats controlling everything, now the other side has won some elections and have a voice so we have a two party deal now, although most in washington, dem or repub want to keep the govt big, gives them power in their own minds.
after decades of the democrats controlling everything, now the other side has won some elections and have a voice so we have a two party deal now, although most in washington, dem or repub want to keep the govt big, gives them power in their own minds.
Re: GREECE
Ukrops and BG are good examples and of course ECR. When Martins took over they put up a sign something like All pocketbooks and bags subject to inspection. Pointed it out to a friend as we walked in one day and said that was it for her.
As to wars with both hands tied behind our back and feet tied, how about starting a war and not properly equipping your own forces against the most simplistic of weapons, an ied.
Disabled vets
Ukrops and BG are good examples and of course ECR. When Martins took over they put up a sign something like All pocketbooks and bags subject to inspection. Pointed it out to a friend as we walked in one day and said that was it for her.
As to wars with both hands tied behind our back and feet tied, how about starting a war and not properly equipping your own forces against the most simplistic of weapons, an ied.
Disabled vets
Re: GREECE
like i said, the govt is the worst, most inefficient entity out there and needs to do a lot less, not more. as to martins, at least you can go somewhere else if you don't like their policies, with our govt, you pay or go to jail.
This post was edited on 5/28 2:28 PM by WebSpinner
like i said, the govt is the worst, most inefficient entity out there and needs to do a lot less, not more. as to martins, at least you can go somewhere else if you don't like their policies, with our govt, you pay or go to jail.
This post was edited on 5/28 2:28 PM by WebSpinner
Boy, I could go on and on about this topic. Basically, I see it as a spending problem. It's real easy to spend other people's money. And almost all politicians are drunk with this power. Wher else but Congress could a budget increase that is slightly smaller than was originally proposed, be called a "spending cut"? And as far as Social Swcurity is concerned, who in this group of scholars actually believes that the federal government can invest it better than we can? And for all you libs who talk about people paying their fair share, why don't we start with the 40% who are paying nothing (yet receive the majority on the benefits?
How about a poll to see how many folks who voted for Obama and are now having buyers remorse?
How about a poll to see how many folks who voted for Obama and are now having buyers remorse?
I'm not, I'm still celebrating war monger Bush not being in the WH. I hoping Cantor and Macaca go down. I do have a dilemma on 6/12...Radtke or Marshall. I would go Marshall but I dont think he has a chance in the primary. Radtke may beable to pull off a grass roots surprise. Toodling around the countryside on my two wheeler, I see many more Radtke signs in yards than Macaca.
This post was edited on 6/4 10:37 PM by Anachnoid
This post was edited on 6/4 10:37 PM by Anachnoid
This discussion has been what I hoped it would be...informative and civil. Extreme disagreement on some concepts; agreement on the basic feeling that the current system is not working. My own belief that there is not another model currently in use around the world which could be pointed to as an engine of prosperity just reinforces my view that population growth is the fly in the worldwide governmental ointment. Maybe, it's time for another Constitutional Convention...maybe, we need to first have another Continental Congress to examine the framework before we sit down to consider the rules.
This is a pipedream of course. The thing that made the first such sessions work was a common abhorrence of the current system and an understanding that there must be unity and to have that there must be compromise,but the purpose of such compromise must always be the general good. Unity seems to be in short supply these days and compromise is on vacation. Nonetheless, it is interesting to fantisize about how we might start over. What changes to the way that we choose our leaders and make our laws might steady the national ship?
Impossible? Why don't we see if there's any commonality beneath our deep seated differences. We are the core group of conspirators. Whom do we invite to our new Continental Congress? One common denominator of the group who have offered opinions here is that all are disenchanted with the way our current system works. If I were to ask for representatives from all the states to meet and consider a new "Declaration of Independence"; a new Constitution; etc. I think that the first rule I would propose is that no delgate may be selected who is now or has in the past served as an elected official of government on any level. Let's get some fresh ideas from college professors, corporate executives, military and police officials, doctors, farmers, engineers, scientists and, I blush when I say this, even a few private practice attorneys(preferably with some experience in mediation). Folks who have not bought into the "Go Along to Get Along and Get Rich While You're Doing It" style of government" Any volunteers?
This is a pipedream of course. The thing that made the first such sessions work was a common abhorrence of the current system and an understanding that there must be unity and to have that there must be compromise,but the purpose of such compromise must always be the general good. Unity seems to be in short supply these days and compromise is on vacation. Nonetheless, it is interesting to fantisize about how we might start over. What changes to the way that we choose our leaders and make our laws might steady the national ship?
Impossible? Why don't we see if there's any commonality beneath our deep seated differences. We are the core group of conspirators. Whom do we invite to our new Continental Congress? One common denominator of the group who have offered opinions here is that all are disenchanted with the way our current system works. If I were to ask for representatives from all the states to meet and consider a new "Declaration of Independence"; a new Constitution; etc. I think that the first rule I would propose is that no delgate may be selected who is now or has in the past served as an elected official of government on any level. Let's get some fresh ideas from college professors, corporate executives, military and police officials, doctors, farmers, engineers, scientists and, I blush when I say this, even a few private practice attorneys(preferably with some experience in mediation). Folks who have not bought into the "Go Along to Get Along and Get Rich While You're Doing It" style of government" Any volunteers?
Along the lines of pipedreams, T, NY Gov has announced that he will ask legislation to relax possession of small amounts of the chronic...just as NYC cracks down on big gulps. What am I missing (and no Gen'l Homer, but thanks anyway, I just did a marble count and all are accounted for)?
I dont think anyone on here is opposed to fiscal responsibility but the question is how to divide the pie and take care of those that cant help themselves. And no, we cant eat the pieplate.
I dont think anyone on here is opposed to fiscal responsibility but the question is how to divide the pie and take care of those that cant help themselves. And no, we cant eat the pieplate.
our govt was created, designed to do a few things but has morphed into trying to do everything for everybody and in doing so has created a class of people completely dependent on others. would like to spend money, lol, to try and end that dependence not making it larger, just to grab votes. that is just one aspect, the main thing is that govt is very wasteful, epic fraud and passing law after law trying to micromanage us, this is at all levels of govt. we should just get back to doing a few things and quit trying to be the maker and master of all things.
