UR getting D1 mens lacrosse?
- Thread starter GKiller
- Start date
Looks like lacrosse will have three years as a varsity club team and then the decision will be made as to whether or not it is to go varsity or drop back down to club status. They have a budget of $120,000 a year.
LAX to varsity?
LAX to varsity?
A, do you know if there are title 9 implications for the level that men's lax is at currently or does it only apply to scholarship status sports?
I don't know with any certainty, but my first inclination is that they do not count currently.
With the demographics of the school (44% male last year), I can't imagine that we could add any more male scholarships without also giving more to the ladies.
With the demographics of the school (44% male last year), I can't imagine that we could add any more male scholarships without also giving more to the ladies.
Re: Upon Further review
Looks to be temporary with another decision in three years.
Just keep the money pumping in...
Looks to be temporary with another decision in three years.
Just keep the money pumping in...
Re: Upon Further review
how many sports must a D-1 fbs school provide? is this the groundwork to get to that level with all that is going on in the gridiron world?
how many sports must a D-1 fbs school provide? is this the groundwork to get to that level with all that is going on in the gridiron world?
Not sure if anyone has seen this yet. Figured I would post it. Looks to be a nice step in the right direction.
Men's Lacrosse
Men's Lacrosse
Trustees meeting this week and will discuss moving lacrosse to D-I. The kicker is that they would do so without increasing the athletic budget, and the only way to offset the add is by axing another men's sport.
Yes, let's pit our student-athletes against each other..it left such a great taste in our mouths last time we did this.
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/2012/apr/18/tdsport01-upgrade-to-division-i-possible-for-ur-me-ar-1849945/
Yes, let's pit our student-athletes against each other..it left such a great taste in our mouths last time we did this.
http://www2.timesdispatch.com/sports/2012/apr/18/tdsport01-upgrade-to-division-i-possible-for-ur-me-ar-1849945/
Amen.
Very interesting piece. I would certainly hope that adding Lacrosse wouldn't be at the direct detriment of others.
How many scholarships does Men's Lax require?
I would think we could add a sport like Women's Volleyball relatively easily and inexpensively (chief expense would be a coach's salary) that would offset adding Men's Lacrosse.
Having played both LAX and soccer in HS, and and as an ex-Spider soccer player, I would love to see us add LAX, but not at the expense of another men's sport.
http://www.conquestgraphics.com
Having played both LAX and soccer in HS, and and as an ex-Spider soccer player, I would love to see us add LAX, but not at the expense of another men's sport.
http://www.conquestgraphics.com
just get the feeling that why add another sport if we are not going to "go for it". if just another pedestrian sport but no goal of being competitive nationally, then do not do this. sure w&l was competitive when there were about 12 schools with the sport. just like women's basketball when only a handful of schools fielded teams, immaculata, odc/odu were tops but when the big conferences got into the business, tough for others to compete other than a few exceptions. although we fit the profile, not in a bcs conf and think this would probably be a waste of any monies we put into it, unless there is an ulterior motive or agenda for doing it. if we felt like we could compete, make the playoffs, win a national championship, then go for it but if just adding another sport with no real support then no.
Well lets see. From my team mates in swimming/water polo and later years, we have medical doctors/surgeons, lawyers, dentists, college professors, other doctorates, small business owners and large national business owners, many of whom I do not see on the annual list of contributors as they feel we were dissed and they could stroke pretty big checks. I suspect that each "non-revenue" sports could be self-sustaining but for the title IX restrictions. As to supporters, we had nice size crowds in the RC pool. And what do they add to a university? Character and depth. For years I did not join the Spider Club for their lack of support during the termination of my sports. By quirk I was a member for the past two years but do not believe I will be renewing as this is salt.
Oh and if you ask these guys they will tell you they came to UR to swim and/or play polo.
This post was edited on 4/18 9:41 AM by Anachnoid
Oh and if you ask these guys they will tell you they came to UR to swim and/or play polo.
This post was edited on 4/18 9:41 AM by Anachnoid
i understand but detest the attitude of you guys. did the university really have a choice? sure you guys could have come up with some money to support the sport but what could you do to help the university reach compliance with title IX? sports had to go, did not want to do that, no school really does but almost all, big and small have or are giving up sports. it is just like children stating that i am taking my ball and going home. again, respect the right for you to do anything you like but personally think it is wrong. i did not like or currently like all the things that UR does across the board but am not going to say i won't support you any longer, just juvenile.
I'm not questioning the post-UR success of non-rev sports competitors. They got into UR. They should be successful. You'll find medical doctors/surgeons, lawyers, dentists, college professors, other doctorates, small business owners and large national business owners among the general UR population who weren't on scholarship, too.
Guess I'm questioning non-rev scholarships in general. I get what succesful sports programs add to a university, but I only get it for the sports that a decent percentage of the students watch. Non-rev sports attract family and friends of the athlete, few others.
I never played lacrosse but I see it's popularity. It would likely attract people and bring some additional interest to UR. So if the board says they aren't looking to add costs and won't add a women sport to offset the men's scholarships, then I think you have to compare LAX to existing men's sports and decide which adds more to the universiy. Would LAX add more than say men's cross country?
One last thing ... doesn't non-compliance to title IX only reduce federal funding to a university? Are we even receiving funding? If so how much, and is it worth it to turn down something like the lights donation offer mentioned by others?
Guess I'm questioning non-rev scholarships in general. I get what succesful sports programs add to a university, but I only get it for the sports that a decent percentage of the students watch. Non-rev sports attract family and friends of the athlete, few others.
I never played lacrosse but I see it's popularity. It would likely attract people and bring some additional interest to UR. So if the board says they aren't looking to add costs and won't add a women sport to offset the men's scholarships, then I think you have to compare LAX to existing men's sports and decide which adds more to the universiy. Would LAX add more than say men's cross country?
One last thing ... doesn't non-compliance to title IX only reduce federal funding to a university? Are we even receiving funding? If so how much, and is it worth it to turn down something like the lights donation offer mentioned by others?
Web, rumor has it that the alleged terms were a new pool and $1M to support womens and mens polo for five years. And to further, if the alleged terms were accurate the alleged rumored laugh is that it might have been doable. I suppose if there was interest it could all be revisited.
At the meeting:
Former Pres paraphrasing - when you come back to campus dont you want to see the professors who taught you and your classmates?
Dr. Ortho paraphrasing- No former pres, when I come back its to see my team mates.
Have the women stepped up contributions? If so the pie should be bigger allowing for more slices and we wouldnt be having this discussion.
At the meeting:
Former Pres paraphrasing - when you come back to campus dont you want to see the professors who taught you and your classmates?
Dr. Ortho paraphrasing- No former pres, when I come back its to see my team mates.
Have the women stepped up contributions? If so the pie should be bigger allowing for more slices and we wouldnt be having this discussion.
Well, we know that if they promote Lax (and I believe this is a sport that UR could be very good at given the demographics of our students), they aren't going to touch football or basketball. They probably wouldn't touch baseball either, given that we have had some success in the sport recently and have had some guys go on to have great MLB careers. Track doesn't have any scholarships now (all are allocated to XC).
That, in my opinion, leaves soccer, golf, tennis and XC.
There is at least one big donor/board member that I can think of who is very much in the lax camp. It wouldn't surprise me to see this happen and I hate it at the same time, because all it says to me is that we couldn't find a way to fund a woman's sport.
I'm against women's volleyball until we get Milhiser up and running as a practice facility.
This post was edited on 4/18 12:06 PM by Spiders05
That, in my opinion, leaves soccer, golf, tennis and XC.
There is at least one big donor/board member that I can think of who is very much in the lax camp. It wouldn't surprise me to see this happen and I hate it at the same time, because all it says to me is that we couldn't find a way to fund a woman's sport.
I'm against women's volleyball until we get Milhiser up and running as a practice facility.
This post was edited on 4/18 12:06 PM by Spiders05
I love lax, and while I hate for it to kill another sport here, I think overall the school would benefit from having it despite the uproar it will cause if it indeed means the end of a men's program. I would hope they would try and find a way to add another women's sport on top of that but it looks they arent going to do that. This will happen, weather its now or in a few years that I would bet on. They are taking it very seriously as a club. Now that they have Robbins stadium, its a perfect size venue for lax. UVA and VMI are the only other schools I think in the state with it and I am sure would have good home draws if we ever hosted them. Plenty of area talent to draw from as well with Collegiate/St. Chris and the emerging public school teams.
Ferrum, I agree completely. Short-term pain, long-term gain.
This could be a big draw to our campus for locals. Despite the local teams not being big players even regionally, the desire to watch local collegiate lax would definitely bring people to campus.
Schools like Bucknell, Lehigh, Duke, Denver, Loyola, Johns Hopkins have all been successful in the sport, so I feel as though we too could be, as long as we put forth the effort.
This could be a big draw to our campus for locals. Despite the local teams not being big players even regionally, the desire to watch local collegiate lax would definitely bring people to campus.
Schools like Bucknell, Lehigh, Duke, Denver, Loyola, Johns Hopkins have all been successful in the sport, so I feel as though we too could be, as long as we put forth the effort.
spiderman, the penalty isn't a "decrease" in federal funding. The penalty is a lawsuit and whatever damages come from that.
Almost every college receives federal money in some form, with Pell Grants for students being the thing that catches them and subjects them to Title IX requirements. At UR, nearly 10% of students receive Pell Grants of up to $5,000 per year.
I'm not even sure how to respond to some of the other comments in this thread about non-revenue sports...a rather shocking wake-up call for me.
So I guess I'll say that like any other extracurricular activity, they add richness to the campus and attract a broad cross-section of students. You need some of all of it...sports, music, clubs, etc.
Almost every college receives federal money in some form, with Pell Grants for students being the thing that catches them and subjects them to Title IX requirements. At UR, nearly 10% of students receive Pell Grants of up to $5,000 per year.
I'm not even sure how to respond to some of the other comments in this thread about non-revenue sports...a rather shocking wake-up call for me.
So I guess I'll say that like any other extracurricular activity, they add richness to the campus and attract a broad cross-section of students. You need some of all of it...sports, music, clubs, etc.
Been told by parents of kids that have attended Ivy schools and played LAX there that kid would have considered/ attended UR but it did not offer LAX as a D-1 sport.Most top notch prep schools in New England,certain L.I. schools,top D.C. Metro schools as Landon and Georgetown Prep,top Baltimore area schools as Gilman are all feeder schools for top D-1 LAX schools.These kids are for the most part high achievers academically.UR to date has been excluded from their college plans because it hasn't offered D-1 LAX.
SF, how can it leads to lawsuits? There are non-compliant schools. If they were being sued they'd comply, no?
Students deserve a wide variety of sports, clubs, etc. as part of a balanced education. Just not sure why participants outside of revenue producing sports get money ... when that started and why. I get it for revenue producing sports. They add prestige, publicity, pride, etc. Plus they bring in money, both directly and indirectly. But for other sports and activities, the costs of the scholarships are passed on to the rest of the student population, inflating the cost of their education. For what? Possible bragging rights over a handful of other schools non-rev sports teams? It's not like we're producing hoards of olympic athletes, doing it for national pride.
Guess my frustration all comes back to the price tag of a UR education these days. I dread having to tell my kids someday that I don't think I can afford this school, even if the people in charge of aid say they think I can.
Students deserve a wide variety of sports, clubs, etc. as part of a balanced education. Just not sure why participants outside of revenue producing sports get money ... when that started and why. I get it for revenue producing sports. They add prestige, publicity, pride, etc. Plus they bring in money, both directly and indirectly. But for other sports and activities, the costs of the scholarships are passed on to the rest of the student population, inflating the cost of their education. For what? Possible bragging rights over a handful of other schools non-rev sports teams? It's not like we're producing hoards of olympic athletes, doing it for national pride.
Guess my frustration all comes back to the price tag of a UR education these days. I dread having to tell my kids someday that I don't think I can afford this school, even if the people in charge of aid say they think I can.
am sure towson gets all of the great students we should have gotten but for no lax. i am all for having as many sports as we can have that we make a commitment to do it right.
spiderman, schools have been sued...most (like UR in 1998) move to comply before the suit gets filed. As for why there are still schools out of balance, I don't know...presumably no one has thought it worth their while to sue (or threaten to sue) those schools.
Your initial comments didn't mention scholarships, so it seemed like you were objecting to the mere existence of non-revenue sports. Certainly the scholarship issue can be debated, but I'm a firm believer that sports in general are an integral part of the student experience for many college students.
As a participant in a non-scholarship, non-revenue sport, I think the sports should be offered even without scholarships. The marginal cost of operating UR's men's swim team at the time it was axed was estimated at about $20,000 per year...a piddling amount. Now, that's not counting coaching salaries since those coaches were needed for a women's team anyway, but you get the point...it ain't much in the grand scheme of things.
In my view, there should be fewer scholarships and more opportunities, but such is the competitive nature of things...no one wants to be perceived at sucking at anything
There is exactly one profitable sport at UR...men's basketball. So let's drop scholarships from all the rest of them.
Your initial comments didn't mention scholarships, so it seemed like you were objecting to the mere existence of non-revenue sports. Certainly the scholarship issue can be debated, but I'm a firm believer that sports in general are an integral part of the student experience for many college students.
As a participant in a non-scholarship, non-revenue sport, I think the sports should be offered even without scholarships. The marginal cost of operating UR's men's swim team at the time it was axed was estimated at about $20,000 per year...a piddling amount. Now, that's not counting coaching salaries since those coaches were needed for a women's team anyway, but you get the point...it ain't much in the grand scheme of things.
In my view, there should be fewer scholarships and more opportunities, but such is the competitive nature of things...no one wants to be perceived at sucking at anything
There is exactly one profitable sport at UR...men's basketball. So let's drop scholarships from all the rest of them.
At meeting
Paraphrasing former president- we just dont have an unlimited amount of money to keep funding these sports...
Paraphrasing Dr. Ortho - Former President, we know whats going on. We have contacted counsel for the plaintiffs in the possible Title IX action....
Former Pres sat back in his seat.
We didnt really have full scholarships. Partials were given mostly to salve some egos. Most on our team paid their fare and some of us worked as lifeguards. And as to fitting demographics of the school, how about we just have the country club sports of golf, tennis and swimmming........
SF, I suspect you would agree, we could have a very competitve mens swimming program and not have scholarships
Paraphrasing former president- we just dont have an unlimited amount of money to keep funding these sports...
Paraphrasing Dr. Ortho - Former President, we know whats going on. We have contacted counsel for the plaintiffs in the possible Title IX action....
Former Pres sat back in his seat.
We didnt really have full scholarships. Partials were given mostly to salve some egos. Most on our team paid their fare and some of us worked as lifeguards. And as to fitting demographics of the school, how about we just have the country club sports of golf, tennis and swimmming........
SF, I suspect you would agree, we could have a very competitve mens swimming program and not have scholarships
At least there were partials in your day...those went to the women in what, '92?
To be honest, I have a hard time seeing UR being competitive in men's swimming without scholarships. We were at the bottom of the heap in the CAA, and I really didn't see any way out of there. Of course, W&M had some success in our last few years, and they were the other non-scholarship program, but they had the benefit of being a public school.
JMU has done extremely well in the CAA in recent years without scholarships as well. So maybe it could be done, but certainly not in the state UR was in in its last few years
It works in other sports too...UR has had some success with its non-scholarship men's sports, so they've found a way.
Of course, my point is that you don't necessarily have to be "competitive" if the idea is that you offer as many sports as possible to contribute to the overall well-rounded student experience.
To be honest, I have a hard time seeing UR being competitive in men's swimming without scholarships. We were at the bottom of the heap in the CAA, and I really didn't see any way out of there. Of course, W&M had some success in our last few years, and they were the other non-scholarship program, but they had the benefit of being a public school.
JMU has done extremely well in the CAA in recent years without scholarships as well. So maybe it could be done, but certainly not in the state UR was in in its last few years
It works in other sports too...UR has had some success with its non-scholarship men's sports, so they've found a way.
Of course, my point is that you don't necessarily have to be "competitive" if the idea is that you offer as many sports as possible to contribute to the overall well-rounded student experience.
Unless there's been a change UR doesn't offer any men's track/XC scholsrships. Here's the quote from and RTD article when we placed in the Nationals.
The fifth-year senior distance runners redshirted ? though UR doesn't offer men's track scholarships ? as they pointed to this season as one that could be special. It is.
The fifth-year senior distance runners redshirted ? though UR doesn't offer men's track scholarships ? as they pointed to this season as one that could be special. It is.
Guess some of you don't see what's going on with sports and kids these days. Even in Richmond area, lacrosse is really growing. It's fast and really appealing and fun for young people. Think we'll see more schools around here going from club to teams over time. Talent pool is definitely increasing in a lot of places, not just NE. So if UR can make it work with going D1 for guys, I say go for it!
S-man, also a bit of history. After the RC was built and UR began expanding up the east coast, admissions and Norris E. the swim coach coordinated on visits to schools to recruit swimming/polo students, each year extending the area until they finally reached Greenwich/Stanford. Later swimming/polo brought in kids from StL and Dallas. One of my room mates was from Bolles and came to UR for swimming/polo. So the sports assisted in spreading the word of our good school during the early reaping of Mr. R's benefits.
SF I believe under the right circumstances and specifically the coach a run could be made at success in non-athletic scholarship swimming. DIII mens swimming has increased due to the number of D1 programs that have dropped the sport.
So can anyone not answer the question. We've had title ix compliance for 13 +/- years, has there been an increase in athletic donations from the girls?
SF I believe under the right circumstances and specifically the coach a run could be made at success in non-athletic scholarship swimming. DIII mens swimming has increased due to the number of D1 programs that have dropped the sport.
So can anyone not answer the question. We've had title ix compliance for 13 +/- years, has there been an increase in athletic donations from the girls?
when i attended UR, women had zero athletic scholies, was that right? NO. like any program that is initiated to right a wrong, title IX has swung too far, gotten to powerful to reign it in, fine tune it. i have a daughter and she deserves the right to earn a scholie just like a guy. A, you guys evidently don't send any money in so have no room to attack others for not doing it. this is our school, you support it even when you might not agree with things that they do. if one is so narrow that they only came to school for one thing and only wish to support one thing, too bad. i have met and become friends with many alums who are younger, older than myself and had nothing to do with as an undergrad and i enjoy those relationships just as much as with the guys i hung with on campus as a student. why limit yourself to such a small circle in life?
When is the quidditch team getting scholarships and funding? It would be a tragedy to leave them behind.
They don't. That's what I don't get. We're not going to go through all this to have a non-scholarship lacrosse program. The scholarships are going to have to come from somewhere else. Soccer?
Thats what my main fear is. Soccer does not deserve to be dropped for lax. LAX > Soccer in my book, but they were there first and have had success in the past though they arent as strong as they were a decade ago. Do they still play off campus? If Mr. Ukrop had something to say about it though I bet it isnt dropped. If we didnt drop soccer and instead dropped a non-schollie sport, does that mean well go non-scholarship lax if we do add it?
This sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen for the Athletic Department in the short term becuase some sport is not going to be happy when they get dropped, I think there are too many logistics to overcome for it to happen this soon.
This sounds like a nightmare waiting to happen for the Athletic Department in the short term becuase some sport is not going to be happy when they get dropped, I think there are too many logistics to overcome for it to happen this soon.
Can anyone ganger a guess where all our men's scholarships are?
Football - 65
Basketball - 13
Baseball - 7 or 8?
Soccer - 7 or 8?
Golf - 3 or 4?
Tennis - 3 or 4? Less?
Track and Cross Country - 0
Is that about right?
How many scholarships does Lacrosse eat? I would guess it is similar to Soccer and baseball.
Football - 65
Basketball - 13
Baseball - 7 or 8?
Soccer - 7 or 8?
Golf - 3 or 4?
Tennis - 3 or 4? Less?
Track and Cross Country - 0
Is that about right?
How many scholarships does Lacrosse eat? I would guess it is similar to Soccer and baseball.
I did a little research and Men's Lacrosse programs have 12.6 scholarships to distribute.
Scholarship breakdown: Scholarship money can be passed out among some or all of the team, meaning partial scholarships are common in college lacrosse.
12 and 2/3 scholarships is a lot for UR, so I wonder if we would only partially fund the program.
Scholarship breakdown: Scholarship money can be passed out among some or all of the team, meaning partial scholarships are common in college lacrosse.
12 and 2/3 scholarships is a lot for UR, so I wonder if we would only partially fund the program.
a little old, but some interesting stuff on UR athletic scholarships.
"Richmond went from awarding 103 athletic scholarships to men and 39 to women in 1997?98 to awarding 84 to men and 84 to women two years later."
http://magazine.richmond.edu/fall07/feature_1/inde
"Richmond went from awarding 103 athletic scholarships to men and 39 to women in 1997?98 to awarding 84 to men and 84 to women two years later."
http://magazine.richmond.edu/fall07/feature_1/inde
FY '06 (July '06-Jun '07) it appears as though we had the following scholarships:
MBB_______13
FB________59
Baseball___8.5
M. Track___0
M. Ten.____1
M Golf_____2
M. Soccer__8
WBB______15
W. Golf____2
FH________11.5
Lax_______11.5
Swim_____10
W. Ten.___8
W. Track__12.5
W. Soccer_12
Each was valued at $35,800. 174 total, down from 176 the year before when they were valued at $32,000. Half-scholarship cuts were made to baseball, W. Track, FH and Lax.
MBB_______13
FB________59
Baseball___8.5
M. Track___0
M. Ten.____1
M Golf_____2
M. Soccer__8
WBB______15
W. Golf____2
FH________11.5
Lax_______11.5
Swim_____10
W. Ten.___8
W. Track__12.5
W. Soccer_12
Each was valued at $35,800. 174 total, down from 176 the year before when they were valued at $32,000. Half-scholarship cuts were made to baseball, W. Track, FH and Lax.
