Transfer Portal
- Thread starter spiderman
- Start date
DeMarr doesn't shoot 3's. that's not a positive in the offense we'll run. but he's a starter from an ACC team that won 9 games in conference. he's a good player and we need good players.
reality is that if an athletic 6'5" guard from BC was in the portal and he shot 38% from 3, he wouldn't be visiting UR. I think we'd be very lucky to land DeMarr Langford.
reality is that if an athletic 6'5" guard from BC was in the portal and he shot 38% from 3, he wouldn't be visiting UR. I think we'd be very lucky to land DeMarr Langford.
Extend, extend, extend. The rankings you posted are impressive but not as impressive as 3 NCAA appearances in 18 years.
This is where there seem to be huge chasms of difference as to what people see and also as to expectations. I don't see Roche living up to expectations many had for him and thus not (or at least not yet) being a quality transfer. But there are wide discrepencies on players and a disconnect about the coach that I find hard to reconcile. If all our players are so great and we have such high expectations each year - - how is it not a coaching problem when we consistently fail to live up to the expectations? Also, if Roche is such a good shooter and more than acceptable defensively WHY didn't he play more? That must be a coaching error that we sat him so much? (for the record, I don't believe it was a coaching error - - just a player not as good as he is given credit for by some on here.
Now as to our players - - We also seem to just see players very differently (and by we throughout I mean lots of people on this board in both directions - - and including me). So I will start with Roche (and I am just using him as an example because of the post above - - I think we over assess many, many players) and several assessments in the above post. First I will start with the very last sentence. That he is more than acceptable defensively. Not even just acceptable - - but MORE than acceptable. What I see is Roche is a bad defensive player. Period. Full stop. He absolutely works hard, but that isn't enough to keep him from being a bad defensive player. Unable to keep guards in front of him and almost no physicality. Now I guess its possible that that someone might find him a "more than acceptable defender" because they are willing to accept bad defense, but that's a losing recipe. Even Mooney, who certainly loves him some offense couldn't find more time on a struggling team for Roche because of his defensive shortcomings. In addition, I have seen little to indicate Roche is anything more than a catch and shoot guy. No dribble drive game (in fact no real dribble game at all), no penetration, no making others better etc. He's a shooter (and not a scorer). That's fine and there are roles for shooters, but a one dimensional player makes doing certain other things harder too. We'd be better able to use Roche if we had better creators and guys who could penetrate and kick etc. And this is not to pick on Roche - - - he's a contributor and gives effort which is important, but he is just not as good as folks on here give him credit for. I find this true at the upper end of the roster where I think Burton gets well more credit for his game than is deserved. I hear NBA talk on here and I see him very, very far from NBA talent and without and NBA level skill (and that includes his athleticism).
But this is just an example of the wide ranging opinions on this board on so many players. Its hard to figure out how it all ranges so greatly. One man's "More than acceptable defender" is another man's (me in this case) "bad defensive player". Its perplexing to me that things so consistently are so wide apart (Mooney in general being a poster child for dramatically differing opinions).
This is not to criticize anyone's opinion or say those whose opinion differs from mine are wrong, just observing how far apart opinions on this board often are! But why is that?
Some of us are coming to accept that this is the best that we can do, and we should not expect much more. Look across town, they are hosting and in a battle with Dayton for a top international prospect. That's just a day in the life of a VCU coach on the job for a few days or weeks or whatever. We apparently spoke with Basimile, but there was some "private" excuse why we couldn't get him. So yes, we are left with critiquing, propping up, downgrading, etc the players we have.
Because we are sharing opinions. Opinions are not facts, and therefore, it is not surprising to me that people on here will have different opinions and not agree on everything. And, opinions are only far apart if you make them far apart. For example, I differ from most on here about Mooney. I am glad he is our coach. But, I can accept the opinions of others if they want him gone, and I don't call anyone crazy for wanting him gone. I do call out posts that get on Mooney when the topic is unrelated to him and the attack not justified, but as far as wanting a new coach, I get it and can accept those opinions. But, ask yourself how many people that want him gone can accept that I want him here? Very very few, right?
So, as a result, I would not call our opinions far apart. But, just looking at this post of yours, you probaby would call those far apart. Like with your Roche example. I think he is more than acceptable defensively, but obviously, more than acceptable is an opinion that can be spread out by many. There is no definition of more than acceptable, but mine in this case would be something like does not hurt us defensively. When in there last year, I never noticed teams isolating their guy and picking on him. I never noticed him getting beat that often. Bottom line, I just didn't see where his defense was ever a problem. But, I can accept if other opinions say he wasn't very good defensively. I would disagree, but I can accept that opinion. Sounds like you cannot come close to accepting my opinion that he is more than acceptable defensively. So, as I said earlier, opinions are only far apart if you choose to make them that way.
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yes, I'm saying playing Goose so much over Roche was a coaching error.
no way to know if I was right but we finished in 11th the other way, so maybe.
we may never see Roche in a full time role. Coach likes 2 ball handlers. even said he preferred Roche as Burton's backup, so he sees him in more of the 3 role. not sure I agree. as 23 mentioned, he's not physical enough on the block against a bigger guy. but Coach might prefer Dji or Smith next to King for additional ball handling.
if King is a true lead guard like Gilly and doesn't need ball handling help, I think Roche fits with him in the backcourt better than he did with Nelson. I also think King could do a better job than Nelson getting Roche the ball when and where he can do damage. but if we land someone like Langford and if Burton is back, I don't expect there to be much time available at those perimeter spots. Burton could play 4 but Coach didn't seem to want to do that last year so not sure why it would change.
The greatest inflation on this board is that the A10 is a strong mid-major conference. Historically one could make the argument, but definitely not over the last few years and I don’t see anything changing this year. It is perhaps a fairly balanced conference and that makes the conference game’s entertaining to watch because any team can win on a given night. These facts make the recruiting efforts by Mooney and staff even more depressing because even though there is “investment” in the program, the Spiders are missing the most important piece. The fans have to hope that the staff can find diamonds in the rough and build an experienced quality team after numerous years. However, that formula has been generally unsuccessful over the last 18 years, the recruiting landscape has undergone historic change in the last 2 years, and a future that consists of 3 underclassmen isn’t much of a foundation. Temper the expectations because it is going to be a long road. The largest donor has already done this, so please fall in line.
I think our recruiting is only going to get worse. I was in favor of the NIL concept, where athletes would be allowed to earn money without losing eligibility. whether it was because they had tons of followers and could be paid as influencers or if a car dealorship wanted to pay them to be in a commercial, it made some sense to me. I thought it was ridiculous that a booster couldn't even take a team out to dinner.
but now that NIL is simply a means to pay players to come to a school, the little guy has no chance any more. outside of Queally, who many love to bash here, how many others are putting big money into the program? we don't have the volume of donors to compete. it's not a one time collection. it's got to be every year. and we don't have the numbers.
did you all see the Hunter Dickinson quotes. the guy's at freaking Michigan ... a monster program with big money ... and he's complaining about what he was paid. he left for a bigger NIL at Kansas.
“The people hating on me would leave their job right now for a $10,000 increase,” Dickinson said. “I got, at Michigan, less than six figures. I got less than six figures at Michigan for the year.”
(and then he proceeds to get absolutely silly)
“I feel like people don’t realize how much courage it took — for a guy who was there for three years, was an All-American for the team,” Dickinson said. “I did have a legacy there, and I basically gave that up to try to be selfish and do what’s best for me and my career, not what’s best for anybody else’s career.”
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couragous is an understatement, Hunter. you're a gosh darn hero.
but now that NIL is simply a means to pay players to come to a school, the little guy has no chance any more. outside of Queally, who many love to bash here, how many others are putting big money into the program? we don't have the volume of donors to compete. it's not a one time collection. it's got to be every year. and we don't have the numbers.
did you all see the Hunter Dickinson quotes. the guy's at freaking Michigan ... a monster program with big money ... and he's complaining about what he was paid. he left for a bigger NIL at Kansas.
“The people hating on me would leave their job right now for a $10,000 increase,” Dickinson said. “I got, at Michigan, less than six figures. I got less than six figures at Michigan for the year.”
(and then he proceeds to get absolutely silly)
“I feel like people don’t realize how much courage it took — for a guy who was there for three years, was an All-American for the team,” Dickinson said. “I did have a legacy there, and I basically gave that up to try to be selfish and do what’s best for me and my career, not what’s best for anybody else’s career.”
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couragous is an understatement, Hunter. you're a gosh darn hero.
While that is all true, the number of college teams hasn't changed, the number of total scholarships allowed hasn't changed, the number of players coming out of high school each year hasn't changed - so we are still pulling from the same pool of talent either way. And for every Hunter Dickinson who makes this kind of move, there is a player pushed out of his spot who will now be looking for a new team, whether or not that next team can pay him big bucks.
But yes, for smaller schools it's a numbers game that will be hard to keep up with. It sort of always was like this anyway, but just compounded now with the new rules. I wonder if there will be more rules changes coming soon to try to reign in some of the chaos.
But yes, for smaller schools it's a numbers game that will be hard to keep up with. It sort of always was like this anyway, but just compounded now with the new rules. I wonder if there will be more rules changes coming soon to try to reign in some of the chaos.
I felt we had many advantages (and some disadvantages) competing for talent against our peers.
I don't know going forward if many high school kids or college transfers will weigh our advantages as heavily as they'll compare the size of the checks.
I don't know going forward if many high school kids or college transfers will weigh our advantages as heavily as they'll compare the size of the checks.
In retrospect, PQ should have said I'll give 10 million instead of 15 million for the practice gym ( if I recall the other 15 mil was raised ) and put aside $5 million for NIL. Again, that was not known at the time - but it is crazy.
I think the trickle down effect is getting us too. So the guys just outside of the big bucks will now be super popular among the rest of the schools. Jay Pal good example. And who knows, he may end up getting the $.
With smaller schools the issue becomes the constant turnover. In the past - mid-majors could compete, because in most cases they had consistency. Guys stayed 4 years and when you had an experienced team you could create upsets against P6 teams who had more talent, but less experience.
Now with NIL and transfer portal - you bring in a kid from HS as a mid-major, but you now need to worry - if he has a good season with us - is he gone and moving up? Kinda like we are the minor league farm system for the Power conference programs.
It is true - the pool is the same, but the pool for the P5 is much better because now do they not only get the best HS kids, but they also get the best transfers that either move from one P5 to another P5 program or a kid moving up from mid-majors to P5.
Smaller schools adjust by doing the same - but we must do it on a different scale - get HS kids, look for kids transferring up from low D1 programs (who might not have the talent to translate moving up) or find a P5 kid who has not played much and looking for more time by moving down. Its like getting the scraps at the dinner table and the question is - who can make the best meal with those scraps.
Now with NIL and transfer portal - you bring in a kid from HS as a mid-major, but you now need to worry - if he has a good season with us - is he gone and moving up? Kinda like we are the minor league farm system for the Power conference programs.
It is true - the pool is the same, but the pool for the P5 is much better because now do they not only get the best HS kids, but they also get the best transfers that either move from one P5 to another P5 program or a kid moving up from mid-majors to P5.
Smaller schools adjust by doing the same - but we must do it on a different scale - get HS kids, look for kids transferring up from low D1 programs (who might not have the talent to translate moving up) or find a P5 kid who has not played much and looking for more time by moving down. Its like getting the scraps at the dinner table and the question is - who can make the best meal with those scraps.
well that part of it hasn't changed.
what's changed is NIL. we have to secure donations. we're not going to keep up financially with the P5's but we have to know and at least match the market in conference . because a little money is a lot to a college kid. we're going to lose recruiting battles if another A10 or similar school offers even $10k more than we can put together.
Along with NIL, another key change is the no sit out transfer rule. That hasn't really bit us yet, but it can't be good for mid majors who develop guys into solid players, and then they can move up to P6 without having to sit out a year.
yeah and when coupled with the NIL, schools with money can literally go shopping for a player they need next year. and some schools are clearly not waiting for a kid to enter the portal before they talk NIL.
guys scoring 6 ppg have 40 team lists.
it's bizarro world this year.
it's bizarro world this year.
8legs1dream
Team Manager
I was going to say the exact same thing.
Bench guy with vanilla stats from a school you've never heard of: 50 offers from all over the country
Yep, I think we are far from alone with having 3 or 4 spots left. Definitely the new normal each spring. But, I get it with a guy like this. Only averaged 6 a game, but he is really good at something.....shooting 3s. 39-89 (43.8%) from 3 will get you plenty of attention out there.
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Remember that "heard from" does not equal offer. I'd assume the majority of schools are not actually offering. More likely it represents a call/text/DM from an assistant coach introducing themselves and asking what the player is looking for in his next school etc., but never progressing to an offer stage.
Barnes was the 6MOTY in his conference, but I agree that 40+ schools reaching out on those stats seems excessive.
In other news, I just set up a fake profile Catfishing big NIL donors. My hops, my rivals profiles, my offers, they are so tantalizing. I have taken in ~ 6.23 Million so far. This is too easy. If you notice this profile gone and a new one that sounds a lot like me in a couple weeks, think nothing of it.
I could, just imagine a combination of Dominique, Jordan and Spud Webb and you have pretty good picture.
Got any eligibility left? We still have plenty of spots available. 😀
All NIL has done is make it easier and legal for big programs to pay their players. They were always paying them in some manner, but now they can do it legally and on a bigger scale. And yes - this involves recruiting and getting players out of transfer portal - but this really only relates to power conference schools.
NIL is a pipe dream for a school like UR. We couldn't get donors involved to buy Mooney contract, so now you think you can get donors to buy players for a coach you wanted to buyout? Good luck. And honestly - I have a feeling if a bunch of donors tried to setup a collective for NIL - the school would step in and set up some rules that would make it impossible to operate. I can see rule #1 - kid must have a 3.0 GPA to receive NIL money. #2 - if you give money to one kid, then every athlete in every program must get the same. Those would be the rules I could see UR putting in place. They don't want to relax admissions any further, then they certainly don't want money flowing to the kids. Rule 3 every dollar you give a kid in NIL, must be matched with a donation to UR.
NIL is a pipe dream for a school like UR. We couldn't get donors involved to buy Mooney contract, so now you think you can get donors to buy players for a coach you wanted to buyout? Good luck. And honestly - I have a feeling if a bunch of donors tried to setup a collective for NIL - the school would step in and set up some rules that would make it impossible to operate. I can see rule #1 - kid must have a 3.0 GPA to receive NIL money. #2 - if you give money to one kid, then every athlete in every program must get the same. Those would be the rules I could see UR putting in place. They don't want to relax admissions any further, then they certainly don't want money flowing to the kids. Rule 3 every dollar you give a kid in NIL, must be matched with a donation to UR.
What made the A10 strong previously was the ability to have strong upper classmen laden teams. Thats out the window now with NIL. Kevin Anderson would of been gone after his sophomore year here if NIL/Portal was in its place.
Does anyone think that 03 St. Joes Team or 2020 Dayton Team would of happened in the era of NIL? Not a chance.
I personally dont enjoy following off season roster movement like its the stock market.
At some point this will need to be reined in a bit. i don't think the intent was for a sizeable percentage of players to change teams every year (notice I said "teams" not "schools").
There is another way to look at it, NIL can also be the great equalizer. You can be Podunk U and have no bball program history or success but if you have the right money you can now assemble a top flight team.
Ultimately if you believe in the players right to earn off their NIL, then you sort of have to accept that there will be haves and have nots. That’s the beauty and the bane of capitalism.
Ultimately if you believe in the players right to earn off their NIL, then you sort of have to accept that there will be haves and have nots. That’s the beauty and the bane of capitalism.
I think one way to rein in the transfer portal is you give kids one free transfer. They can move without sitting out just once. BUT - other circumstances will allow a move without penalty as well. The two main ones would be 1) Coach leaves or gets fired. 2) You graduate from the school within 4 years But if you transfer 1 time and then just want to transfer again, you now have to sit out and redshirt - this will make schools and kids think twice about it.
That's basically what the rules are right now. They've just been very lenient with the waivers for "BUT" situations during COVID chaos. Supposedly they're tightening up on that, but it remains to be seen.
A blanket policy to allow multiple undergrad transfers without sitting out was considered last summer but not enacted. They're continuing to study the issue.
A blanket policy to allow multiple undergrad transfers without sitting out was considered last summer but not enacted. They're continuing to study the issue.
yeah will be interesting to see if NCAA institutes some sort of cap on NIL at some point.
Agree with spiderman, this is not what I had thought it would be and I'm a supporter of paying the players because of the vast revenue they bring in.
Agree with spiderman, this is not what I had thought it would be and I'm a supporter of paying the players because of the vast revenue they bring in.
