Spider Collective NIL

[Eight Legger]

Let's say we pay five transfers $1 million apiece and then win the A10 regular season and tournament, spend most of the year ranked, start selling out weekday games in addition to weekend games, then make the Sweet 16.

Playing in three NCAA games would net the league about $6.5M. If it's still paying 75% of that to the team that earned it, then we get $4.8M. Then factor in the added ticket revenue (probably fewer discounted tickets would need to be sold, too), merch and concessions, visibility, application bump, etc... It's a big time win.

I realize that signing five top guys doesn't guarantee anything, of course, but I bet it would give us a pretty good shot at this scenario.

 

[SFspidur]

What's stopping probably 150–200 other D-I schools from trying the same strategy?

 

[spiderman]

What's stopping probably 150–200 other D-I schools from trying the same strategy?

the ability to raise $5M per year, I'd assume.

 

[Eight Legger]

the ability to raise $5M per year, I'd assume.

Correct, I was responding to the theoretical idea of taking allocating some of our endowment this way. I realize it wouldn't happen.

But it seems like very few schools are going THAT high on NIL yet. Miami paid a couple guys $500K+ last year and then made the Final Four, so it paid off for them.

 

[SFspidur]

Yeah, but the argument seems to be that the tactic pays for itself, so as long as you can get that initial $5 million you're good to go.

Until everybody else tries to do the same.

 

[Eight Legger]

My point is just that no one else IS doing it right now, that's all.

 

[spiderman]

My point is just that no one else IS doing it right now, that's all.

just Arkansas.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Bill Tracking - 2024 session > Legislation

lis.virginia.gov

I’ll wait on your update

 

[spider23]

Hey, if Arkansas is committing to $5 million, I'm sure the new Kentucky coach will be negotiating to have $10 million in funds available.

As much as it sounds like a lot, to the Tyson family, they probably burn that much in jet fuel in a few weeks.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Calipari was getting what $9.5/year as coach at UK? Pretty sure they will find resources. But big donors at Ak and OK St. have to also factor in $$ needed for football, their real priority. UR doesn’t have that so maybe we can compete in the bball $$ space. And not just compete with other leafy schools, but be in the top NIL quad each year. SLU and Dayton appear committed. No idea what VCU’s situation financially is. Other A10 schools may have more issues. Richmond has a built in advantage, no reason not to exploit it for the good of the school.

Or we could just buy more rakes. All those leaves.

 

[mr.spider]

Set aside $100M out of the endowment once and use the interest annually to fund the core of the NIL and supplement with the Spider Collective.

 

[fan2011]

maybe I am missing something here, but I don’t think schools or athletic departments can directly pay athletes for NIL. I don’t think this scheme works because funneling NCAA tournament payouts from schools/athletic departments to athletes through NIL deals is not allowed.

 

[SFspidur]

maybe I am missing something here, but I don’t think schools or athletic departments can directly pay athletes for NIL. I don’t think this scheme works because funneling NCAA tournament payouts from schools/athletic departments to athletes through NIL deals is not allowed.

You’re missing the discussion in this thread about the pending VA law…as soon as that’s signed, VA schools will be able to directly pay NIL.

“No athletic association, athletic conference, or other organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics shall […] prevent an institution from compensating a student-athlete for the use of his name, image, or likeness”

 

[fan2011]

You’re missing the discussion in this thread about the pending VA law…as soon as that’s signed, VA schools will be able to directly pay NIL.

“No athletic association, athletic conference, or other organization with authority over intercollegiate athletics shall […] prevent an institution from compensating a student-athlete for the use of his name, image, or likeness”

haha, not often has there been such a glaringly obvious thing I was missing. That discussion is all on page 1, we are on page 2 now!

 

[SpiderTrap]

Set aside $100M out of the endowment once and use the interest annually to fund the core of the NIL and supplement with the Spider Collective.

IF that were possible, that would take a commitment from the school President, Faculty, and Administration to make Athletics the priority at the school - and I don't think UR will jump into those waters.

 

[mr.spider]

IF that were possible, that would take a commitment from the school President, Faculty, and Administration to make Athletics the priority at the school - and I don't think UR will jump into those waters.

Doesn't that leave ~$2.9B for everything else?

 

[UR80sfan]

Set aside $100M out of the endowment once and use the interest annually to fund the core of the NIL and supplement with the Spider Collective.

That is not how endowment funds work. They payout a fixed percentage (4% to 5%) of assets per year. (the formula is a little more complicated than that). All of this annual payout is already included in the schools annual budget. If you increase one area you need to take away from another.

 

[mr.spider]

That is not how endowment funds work. They payout a fixed percentage (4% to 5%) of assets per year. (the formula is a little more complicated than that). All of this annual payout is already included in the schools annual budget. If you increase one area you need to take away from another.

Exactly how it works. Use the interest from the allocated portions to fund different programs. Just expand the allocation for athletics and use the interest to fund the NIL program.

With $3B to allocate, we should be able to manage.

 

[mr.spider]

That or drop Mooney's salary by half, and pay the players instead. The players have saved his job all this time anyway. If he really wants this cushy job for the rest of his life, he should be willing to take a paycut and still make over a half a million a year. Worse case (maybe best case), we get a better coach if Mooney's not cool with 500K+ per year.

 

[Eight Legger]

For what it's worth, Maryland is paying Ja'Kobi Gillespie, a pretty talented transfer guard from Belmont with two years left, $250k this coming year. That's a Big Ten school. Right now, it would take "only" about $1 million total for us to field a pretty solid starting lineup.

 

[97spiderfan]

That or drop Mooney's salary by half, and pay the players instead. The players have saved his job all this time anyway. If he really wants this cushy job for the rest of his life, he should be willing to take a paycut and still make over a half a million a year. Worse case (maybe best case), we get a better coach if Mooney's not cool with 500K+ per year.

Believe if Mooney took a paycut of 50%, he is still making well north of $500K. Thought his salary was in the 2.4 million range. If he took a 50% pay cut, he is still making more than 1 million annually. If we put the other 1 million in the NIL as Eight proposes, than we can go out and buy us a really nice squad.

Assuming Mooney can coach them up would lead to all of the increased revenues (NCAA money, ticket sales, increased exposure for entire university), which we could then reinvest back into Mooney's salary and future NIL payouts. Mooney could negotiate his salary to be incentive driven to make up difference too. Give him an extra $250K for making the NCAA, 250K for every win in the NCAA something like that.

It would be a really interesting exercise for a mid major to try out. We won't because that is not how we do things at UR, but some more innovative athletic department/coaching staff may.

 

[8legs1dream]

million dollar offers are now on the table for each conference's player of the year to come be a Spider!

 

[Eight Legger]

LET'S GO! Way to step up, 8legs!!

 

[SFspidur]

VCU pushing hard on getting people to support their collective.

 

[SpiderTrap]

VCU pushing hard on getting people to support their collective.

View embedded media

Interesting how the schools can't directly fund the NIL Collectives (at this time), but they can market them and ask donors to donate to them.

 

[spider23]

One interesting note, recently ran into my Kansas State buddy, who is involved with NIL at K State. He mentioned that apparently , at least in there case, there is a contract, in which the athlete has to do x, y, z to fulfill their obligation. Seems like it is an issue that they pay out the money, athlete transfers and they did not fulfill there obligation. Did not get to deep into the woods but sounds like NIL fund or whatever could go after the money at that point.
So I could see - players spend the money, don't pay taxes in some cases, and then NIL fund sues for lack of fulfilling contract.

 

[mr.spider]

It is very important that the school step in and allocate some of the endowment towards NIL when the law is signed. It is the only way a smaller school like ours with fewer alumni can be competitive. We simply do not have a large enough alumni base to gather the necessary funds compared with much bigger schools. If the school does not decide that athletics is important, we will quietly slip into the sunset. This seems like an essential time to write letters, email, and call the president and staff to voice our concerns.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

IRS will have a field day with NIL cases in short order.

 

[VT4700]

Believe if Mooney took a paycut of 50%, he is still making well north of $500K. Thought his salary was in the 2.4 million range. If he took a 50% pay cut, he is still making more than 1 million annually. If we put the other 1 million in the NIL as Eight proposes, than we can go out and buy us a really nice squad.

Assuming Mooney can coach them up would lead to all of the increased revenues (NCAA money, ticket sales, increased exposure for entire university), which we could then reinvest back into Mooney's salary and future NIL payouts. Mooney could negotiate his salary to be incentive driven to make up difference too. Give him an extra $250K for making the NCAA, 250K for every win in the NCAA something like that.

It would be a really interesting exercise for a mid major to try out. We won't because that is not how we do things at UR, but some more innovative athletic department/coaching staff may.

"We won't because that is not how we do things". LOL, as if any other school's coach would take a 50% pay cut and do what you are saying. Some of the things our coach, AD, and athletic department get blamed for on here continue to amaze me.

 

[Anachnid]

It all feels nasty and dirty to me. No rules. School A nil booster can approach school b player during season and offer $$$$$ to quit school immediately and transfer to new school, at beginning of next semester. What enforcement is in place to stop them?
If these players are so amped about getting paid, go pro. Stop using the colleges like a college girl with no self esteem.
Yes IRS can have a field day if it so desires.
S23 I sure would like to know what value this payees are giving the payors for the grift.

 

[mr.spider]

I don't like this NIL stuff at all, but it is reality, and it serves as an opportunity for us if we take it. Please write to President Hallock and Mr. Hardt: president@richmond.edu & athleticdirector@richmond.edu. My letter has been sent.

 

[SFspidur]

Zero chance they redirect any of the existing endowment. It would have to be new money.

 

[mr.spider]

As a small school working against much larger alumni bases, if the school doesn't step in and allocate money to this cause, athletics will essentially cease to exist. This is a very critical time that feels nothing short of "Save Richmond Athletics". We are at cross-roads where we can either step up big-time and be commensurate with any university out there or fall back to Div II or Div III, or at least into the basketball equivalent of FCS.

 

[RichmondNative]

There is no way any logical person is going to get involved with the current Wild West of NIL payments. The risk/reward makes no sense. Millions of dollars can be spent and a team could still not make the NCAAs. There were plenty of examples this year.

In addition, all this hype has to be coming from the NIL agents. They get a percentage, so of course they want as much money for their clients as possible. Then there is the simple ethics question of what the players are doing for this money. The NIL concept was supposed to be about the ability to be paid for promotions (ie marketing potential). How can there be hundreds of thousands of dollars tied to a player who no one knows for marketing? Tyler Burton had zero value marketing to anyone in Philly. So a player is being paid to play and there is no market rate established. It simply makes no sense and no institution with an academic reputation is going to soil it by pandering to athletes. There is already plenty of questioning why head coaches are the highest paid university staff members, so you are telling me universities are going to line up to pay one to two year temporary residents more money than its tenured staff too?

On a different tangent, anyone who thinks that UR needs to make a big splash in athletic success in order to attract students has obviously not been to any athletic contests on campus. Student attendance levels at games are low and I haven’t seen any drop in enrollment. There is no correlation.

The faster a new model is established for minor league professional basketball and football the better. The era of colleges filling the gap is over. Colleges have way bigger problems than sports looming anyway. Take a look at the demographics. Better save that endowment money.

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

"We won't because that is not how we do things". LOL, as if any other school's coach would take a 50% pay cut and do what you are saying. Some of the things our coach, AD, and athletic department get blamed for on here continue to amaze me.

Your constant indignation makes me wonder if you are Guy Pearce living out the real life version of Memento and every time you log on is like your first 15 minutes on the internet with zero idea of what came before or what is going on.

Message boards are one of the best places for stupid theories. Not all are serious. We're talking about college basketball, which ranks about 10,000th in most people's list of concerns. Relax. Or tattoo "Relax" on your knuckles.

 

[mr.spider]

Your constant indignation makes me wonder if you are Guy Pearce living out the real life version of Memento and every time you log on is like your first 15 minutes on the internet with zero idea of what came before or what is going on.

Message boards are one of the best places for stupid theories. Not all are serious. We're talking about college basketball, which ranks about 10,000th in most people's list of concerns. Relax. Or tattoo "Relax" on your knuckles.

This is a basketball message board, so I hope it ranks a little higher than 10,000th here. Otherwise, why the hell are we all here?

 

[mr.spider]

There is no way any logical person is going to get involved with the current Wild West of NIL payments. The risk/reward makes no sense. Millions of dollars can be spent and a team could still not make the NCAAs. There were plenty of examples this year.

In addition, all this hype has to be coming from the NIL agents. They get a percentage, so of course they want as much money for their clients as possible. Then there is the simple ethics question of what the players are doing for this money. The NIL concept was supposed to be about the ability to be paid for promotions (ie marketing potential). How can there be hundreds of thousands of dollars tied to a player who no one knows for marketing? Tyler Burton had zero value marketing to anyone in Philly. So a player is being paid to play and there is no market rate established. It simply makes no sense and no institution with an academic reputation is going to soil it by pandering to athletes. There is already plenty of questioning why head coaches are the highest paid university staff members, so you are telling me universities are going to line up to pay one to two year temporary residents more money than its tenured staff too?

On a different tangent, anyone who thinks that UR needs to make a big splash in athletic success in order to attract students has obviously not been to any athletic contests on campus. Student attendance levels at games are low and I haven’t seen any drop in enrollment. There is no correlation.

The faster a new model is established for minor league professional basketball and football the better. The era of colleges filling the gap is over. Colleges have way bigger problems than sports looming anyway. Take a look at the demographics. Better save that endowment money.

Yeah, the NIL stuff is crap, but if we want to be relevant, we have to play along.

The 2nd half of your statement sounds like a quitters attitude. I thought we could agree on a sports messageboard, we would want to promote and grow our sports program. If we are looking to go "fcs" basketball, what a waste.

 

[nathanw19]

It is very important that the school step in and allocate some of the endowment towards NIL when the law is signed. It is the only way a smaller school like ours with fewer alumni can be competitive. We simply do not have a large enough alumni base to gather the necessary funds compared with much bigger schools. If the school does not decide that athletics is important, we will quietly slip into the sunset. This seems like an essential time to write letters, email, and call the president and staff to voice our concerns.

It’s just not how an endowment works… it’s not a bank account with billions of dollars or even an investment portfolio with billions of dollars, that a school can dip into as they please.

It’s better to think of it as a net worth statement. And even then, many donations are made with specific uses, so the school can’t just lop off a chunk and put to basketball. And a lot of that net worth is in real estate. Or it’s already funding something else, etc.

Believe me, I’m pro Richmond throwing money at the problem and spending big on basketball, and I’ve already warned my significant other if we ever win the Lottery that a chunk will be going towards Making Richmond Basketball Great Again, but I don’t think it’s realistic or again how endowments work to be hoping for what you’re hoping for.

 

[MrTbone]

"We won't because that is not how we do things". LOL, as if any other school's coach would take a 50% pay cut and do what you are saying. Some of the things our coach, AD, and athletic department get blamed for on here continue to amaze me.

While I disagree with many of VT’s positions, totally agree here. No coach would do this except under very unusual circumstances.

 

[mr.spider]

While I disagree with many of VT’s positions, totally agree here. No coach would do this except under very unusual circumstances.

Probably not. But after earning 15M minimum while at Richmond, with the option to earn 500K more per year for basically as long as he wants, you'd like to think maybe he'd like to give back to the school and at the same time help his chances at making some NCAA runs and leaving a little legacy to his name.