Special teams play

[AnnapSpider]

Am I the only one that thinks that we possibly have the worst special team play in the conference?
Today's game we kicked the ball out of bounds, we had a two yard punt, we time and time again let JMU get past the 30 on every kickoff, and our returns were short to miserable.
I'm probably forgetting something.
But, this has been going on for several years now. Why?

 

[SpiderK]

Am I the only one that thinks that we possibly have the worst special team play in the conference?
Today's game we kicked the ball out of bounds, we had a two yard punt, we time and time again let JMU get past the 30 on every kickoff, and our returns were short to miserable.
I'm probably forgetting something.
But, this has been going on for several years now. Why?

We should have kicked the ball out of bounds every time we kicked off. They only get the 35. Someone should be fired for Broadus punting out of end zone

 

[Stonewall D]

Someone tell me why Broadus was punting? Please. That made no sense.

 

[Ulla1]

Someone tell me why Broadus was punting? Please. That made no sense.

D, same question. I cannot fathom why he was asked to punt. OSC

 

[MolivaManiac]

Broadus was likely asked to punt because he gets the ball out of there faster than DJ and JMU was coming after it with us down there deep. Broadus has actually done a decent job punting - yesterday's punt was not good. that shank did not cost us the game.

I agree with the thread in general. what was average starting field position for both teams? kick returns and kickoff coverage were huge.

 

[NOVA Spider]

D, same question. I cannot fathom why he was asked to punt. OSC

Let's think about this for a minute. Broadus has not punted but twice all year and he puts him in to punt in his own end zone and has him roll out right toward the sideline before he actually punts the ball. Keep in mind the ball is on the right hash as it is. Any semi- shank and it's going out of bounds very short. Someone needs to reassess who's in charge of the special teams, because that idea is mind boggling. And what game were you watching Molivia, because that shank was one of the reasons we lost. It led to a TD a few plays later.

 

[MolivaManiac]

They would've taken over at the 45 and not our 20. it would've taken them, what, 2 more plays to score? Who cares?

We got no stops all day. That's the story. not the punt.

 

[NOVA Spider]

They would've taken over at the 45 and not our 20. it would've taken them, what, 2 more plays to score? Who cares?

We got no stops all day. That's the story. not the punt.

You're guessing that would have happened. Who knows? They could have fumbled or got a few penalties if they had a longer field. They may have been forced to kick fg. All I'm saying is the idea of having him do that set Broadus up to fail.

 

[MolivaManiac]

You're guessing that would have happened. Who knows? They could have fumbled or got a few penalties if they had a longer field. They may have been forced to kick fg. All I'm saying is the idea of having him do that set Broadus up to fail.

It's a fair observation on your part.

As to my "guess", we got zero stops all day. I "guess" that 25 yard difference may have yielded our only stop of the day but there's loads of evidence that it wouldnt.

 

[NOVA Spider]

It's a fair observation on your part.

As to my "guess", we got zero stops all day. I "guess" that 25 yard difference may have yielded our only stop of the day but there's loads of evidence that it wouldnt.

 

[NOVA Spider]

The defense had just forced a turnover right before the shank, so my "guess" is it could have happened again.....???????

 

[MolivaManiac]

ALL RIGHT... YOU WIN. THE SHANK COST US THE GAME. THERE WERE STILL 25 MINUTES TO GO IN THE GAME AND WE SUBSEQUENTLY LED THE GAME WITH A FEW MINUTES LEFT. BUT IT WAS THE SHANK.

So sorry.

 

[8legs]

Whether it cost us the game or not might be debatable, but it was indeed a costly play that got them jacked up even more. I am a big fan of our coach but he has to see how special teams have been our Achilles heel since he's been here and yesterday was the worst. Since they never punted it's reasonable to assume they would have scored anyway. They had to start their possessions 20-25 yards better than us. Speed is a killer, especially when you don't have it.

 

[Eight Legger]

That punt coming right after we finally forced a turnover was definitely a big momentum swing. But I agree that it was pretty likely they would have scored again anyway, even after a good punt. But, maybe we would have held them to a FG instead of a TD. Who knows.

Bottom line is that our defensive line pretty much cost us the game. No pressure whatsoever on the QB, no ability to stop the run. When both of those things happen, the other team doesn't punt and we lose.

 

[SpiderRick]

If we were around midfield, and it's fourth down and less than 5 yards, Broadus punting MIGHT not be a bad idea because of potentially faking the punt and running or throwing. But from our own end zone? Broadus is a great athlete, but I really don't think that NOW they are using him wisely.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I said our weakest link for the game was Special Teams and it was but like Mo said in another post, it has been the case since Legg was coordinator. If our hide and seek defense is going to play like it did yesterday, then we must not give up such poor field position. I echo Mo, we need a change at ST Coordinator after this year.

 

[8legs]

Defense yesterday was definitely a big disappointment. Not a very good effort with 2 weeks to prepare. However, JMU has been scoring on everybody and starting from mid-field every time didn't help.
When you have slow coverage guys and a kicker that can't kick it inside the 10 yard line you have a recipe for disaster. Thought this ODU transfer was supposed to be great. Is he still bothered by the injury? Why can't we recruit a lightening fast returner like everybody else seems to have?

 

[AnnapSpider]

I said our weakest link for the game was Special Teams and it was but like Mo said in another post, it has been the case since Legg was coordinator. If our hide and seek defense is going to play like it did yesterday, then we must not give up such poor field position. I echo Mo, we need a change at ST Coordinator after this year.

Carolina's post is more to the point. The shank was only one unfortunate mishap. But the continued rotten play of the special teams et al , cost us the game. If we weren't so good on offense and defense the number of losses would be much greater.
I have sat in the stands with almost total disbelief that our special teams are part of the same team during the rest of the game/games.

 

[I-M-UR]

Defense yesterday was definitely a big disappointment. Not a very good effort with 2 weeks to prepare. However, JMU has been scoring on everybody and starting from mid-field every time didn't help.
When you have slow coverage guys and a kicker that can't kick it inside the 10 yard line you have a recipe for disaster. Thought this ODU transfer was supposed to be great. Is he still bothered by the injury? Why can't we recruit a lightening fast returner like everybody else seems to have?

The stops on kick offs in the first half was miserable 50, our 40 etc (I believe the out of bound kick was the best stop we had in the first half), but after half time we had a number of stops inside the 30 which for this group is good. but you're right our drives had to be 80 yards theirs 50 to 60.

 

[SpiderFan26]

Are we eeally debating if the shank cost us the game? THEY PUNTED 0 TIMES. If you dont force the other team to punt the entire time, you dont deserve to win. We had to avoid a shootout, and we didn't.

 

[SpiderRick]

Defense yesterday was definitely a big disappointment. Not a very good effort with 2 weeks to prepare. However, JMU has been scoring on everybody and starting from mid-field every time didn't help.
When you have slow coverage guys and a kicker that can't kick it inside the 10 yard line you have a recipe for disaster. Thought this ODU transfer was supposed to be great. Is he still bothered by the injury? Why can't we recruit a lightening fast returner like everybody else seems to have?

We have one. Brian Brown. But they won't use him. And don't give me the crap about we don't want him injured, he's way too talented to not use him WHEN THERE IS A NEED. They didn't worry about injuries when they had our best defensive player returning punts. And why do we take every return right up the middle, only to get stuffed early.

 

[SpiderFan26]

Rick, do you think there is even a hole for the returners to run through? Drake and Abell and Brissett aren't Brian Brown but if there were even some room we wouldn't be getting lit up at the 20 each time. This is scheme issues, has gone on during a long span. When you are getting hit that early and that often it goes deeper than the guy returning. That's why I wouldn't risk Brown because I don't think even he could do much more.

 

[Spiders05]

what was average starting field position for both teams? kick returns and kickoff coverage were huge.

Our best start was on our 24 yard line. JMU only had one start worse than that all day.

Our average start off kickoffs was at the 20. JMU's average start was at the 41. Throw out their one long return and it was still at the 33.

 

[Stonewall D]

They would've taken over at the 45 and not our 20. it would've taken them, what, 2 more plays to score? Who cares?.

I do not understand. Are you saying the coaches made the right decision to have Broadus punt in that situation? Yes or no.

 

[KE Spider]

Agree - HUGE problem yesterday was our Special Teams were anything but....again. Setting up a good opponent at the 40 on average on ALL four first half possessions gave their offense confidence, not to mention 24 points. If they had started a couple (even one) of those drives at the 20 or 25 and not been able to drive the length of the field, different game from a mental perspective for both their O and Spider D.

Still expected a better showing from our D and less from Schor. The young man makes very good decisions with the ball.

Learn, live, and move on. We have some Hens to roast next Saturday.

 

[VT_Spider]

If we can get this issue fixed we can go so much further. Special teams is a third of the game and great teams are great at it. It's amazing to me how growing up a UR fan and seeing our terrible special teams and then seeing the special teams that Tech plays and how sound they are at it. They take it very seriously and always have several impact plays in the return, kicking, or blocking kicks game. The kickoff thing is ridiculous for us. I know they scored every time they touched the ball yesterday but if we give them a longer field it at least gives them more room to make mistakes. It cost us big time yesterday

 

[KE Spider]

For the record, I am not blaming our ST players. We have plenty of heart, speed and talent out there, but somehow the total is less than the sum of the parts. That's not on them.

 

[Ulla1]

Defense yesterday was definitely a big disappointment. Not a very good effort with 2 weeks to prepare. However, JMU has been scoring on everybody and starting from mid-field every time didn't help.
When you have slow coverage guys and a kicker that can't kick it inside the 10 yard line you have a recipe for disaster. Thought this ODU transfer was supposed to be great. Is he still bothered by the injury? Why can't we recruit a lightening fast returner like everybody else seems to have?

Excuse me, but our field goal kicker can easily kick it inside the 10 when given the opportunity. All of our kickers do what they are told, targeting different areas. Our problems are not caused by a lack of "Legg". OSC

 

[VT_Spider]

For the record, I am not blaming our ST players. We have plenty of heart, speed and talent out there, but somehow the total is less than the sum of the parts. That's not on them.

Exactly right. Special teams is about effort and heart and I do think we have that. We just are never in the right spot on coverage or we badly mishandle the kicking game

 

[Ulla1]

Exactly right. Special teams is about effort and heart and I do think we have that. We just are never in the right spot on coverage or we badly mishandle the kicking game

Bingo! OSC

 

[Hanca]

Schor had great game but was never pressured. Felt like I was watching the Bob Trott 3 man rush special for most of game. D just looked bad and could never get a stop. Special teams, as regard both kickoff coverage and returns are miserable. Legg has got to be replaced as many have said for years.

 

[8legs]

Excuse me, but our field goal kicker can easily kick it inside the 10 when given the opportunity. All of our kickers do what they are told, targeting different areas. Our problems are not caused by a lack of "Legg". OSC

Ulla, with respect, I watched Sager practice kicking from the 35 during half time and he must have kicked 15-20 times and only once did he kick it inside the 10 yard line and that went out of bounds at about the 5. If he can kick it into the end zone where they get the ball without a run back opportunity on the 25 and we're not doing it then we're not only bad on kickoffs, we're stupid. I understand when he pooches it or squibs it, he's following directions, but if he could kick it into the end zone our strategy would or should be different. I'm still asking, is he injured?

 

[Ulla1]

Ulla, with respect, I watched Sager practice kicking from the 35 during half time and he must have kicked 15-20 times and only once did he kick it inside the 10 yard line and that went out of bounds at about the 5. If he can kick it into the end zone where they get the ball without a run back opportunity on the 25 and we're not doing it then we're not only bad on kickoffs, we're stupid. I understand when he pooches it or squibs it, he's following directions, but if he could kick it into the end zone our strategy would or should be different. I'm still asking, is he injured?

8, I was referring to Trau who has the leg to put it in the endzone. Think Coach is afraid he could get hurt if allowed to kickoff. He has certainly been a blessing on extra points (100%) and field goals (15 of 17). I recall a few years ago when the outcome of any kick was a mystery. OSC

 

[32counter]

8, I was referring to Trau who has the leg to put it in the endzone. Think Coach is afraid he could get hurt if allowed to kickoff. He has. He has certainly been a blessing on extra points (100%) and field goals (15 of 17). I recall a few years ago when the outcome of any kick was a mystery. OSC

Trau doesn't have the leg to kick into the end zone nor has he ever.ODU transfer did at ODU but he came up hurt at ODU and at UR remains not at 100%.A 50 yd FG v UVA showed his leg strength at optimal health and it was not wind aided.
Ironic that JMU kickoffs had our guys catching the ball inside our 5yd line and maybe getting back to the 20yd line.Nice downfield coverage by the purple people.

 

[wr70beh]

Schor had great game but was never pressured. Felt like I was watching the Bob Trott 3 man rush special for most of game. D just looked bad and could never get a stop. Special teams, as regard both kickoff coverage and returns are miserable. Legg has got to be replaced as many have said for years.

I thought we pressured him ok, he just slipped out of our rush and put the ball right on the money . The guy is a good QB, give credit where credit is due.

 

[spiderjpo]

We chose to play mostly coverage package to try to mask our secondary. Waller and Jordan going out did not help our cause. The one play our coverage fooled Schor, we dropped the INT in the red zone unlike against VU we made that play. Lots of little things make a big difference with evenly matched teams.

 

[mcspider]

Because someone asked something about this above here, I looked up all the starting positions for the game...
JMU - 1st half: 35, 48, 37, UR 39; 2nd half: 25, UR 20 (after shank), 29, 23, 29, UR 8 (after turnover on downs)
UR - 1st half: 18, 20, 23, 24, 23; 2nd half: 18 (after JMU fumble), 22, 20 (JMU missed FG), 20, 13 (assessed a 10 yard penalty on return), 17.

By comparison that sucks. It does look like adjustments were made at halftime. We started just kicking it as long as we could and covering it as best we could. By and large that worked out much better in terms of starting field positions. The two bad defensive starts in the 2nd were due to the shank and the turnover on downs late. Our starting field position for the game on the other hand was just horrible. Our own 24 yard line was the best starting position of the day.

One of my questions is this, is part of our problem that we tend to use less of our veteran players on special teams? And if so, why is that? Potential injuries? Conserving energy for their true positions? Developing the younger guys? Plays that I remember from years ago were our starting offensive and defensive players making big plays. Eric McBride with the unfathomable "I'll take that" against App St. is one example of this.

 

[Captain Anderson]

The folks arguing that we made zero stops and that the shanked punt (and poor coverage in general) cost us are both right. Coverage on kickoffs continues to be a problem against well coached teams. Stony Brook got us on the opening kickoff of the 2nd half up there and basically grabbed momentum that we never recovered from. Defensively we don't seem very dynamic in terms of pass rush and I know we rush 3-4 a lot to protect the secondary.

This kick coverage issue needs to be addressed now and even more so over the offseason. Championship teams are good in all 3 phases (See Alabama's perfect onside kick in the title game last year). Giving good teams the ball at midfield or worse is just beating yourself.

 

[MidloTrader]

Lots to agree with here. #1 recruiting goal should be to find a kickoff specialist who can send the ball out of the end zone 75-80% of the time. Then there are no worries on injuries to ST players and opponent has to start at their 25 yard line every time. End of that problem at least.

 

[SpiderK]

Fire special teams coach "twice"