"Running Players Off"
- Thread starter MolivaManiac
- Start date
+1. I agree Tbone. You may have more insight into the reasons and certainly they don't need to be discussed on here, but CM suddenly hating JP's game to not play him 1 more minute in any game defies my sense of logic. Ergo, that there had to be other intervening factors. My only point. And if there were other factors in play, than I am certainly OK with Mooney's decision, if it was strictly basketball, that would be more head scratching.
Player wise, I think that a strong majority of evaluators would say that (in 2015-16) JP had more player potential than JJ.
If punishment is in play for a player, any discipline should be commensurate with the violation. Banishing a promising player to the bench for the majority of the season because of some off-court issue would be insane! That would not be discipline and/or teaching an important lesson, it would be much more like childishly holding a grudge.
I strongly suspect that this situation with JP is another in the long list of highly questionable Mooney personnel decisions. I like Pistol's game. I hope that he stays and that he enjoys a fabulous career.
If punishment is in play for a player, any discipline should be commensurate with the violation. Banishing a promising player to the bench for the majority of the season because of some off-court issue would be insane! That would not be discipline and/or teaching an important lesson, it would be much more like childishly holding a grudge.
I strongly suspect that this situation with JP is another in the long list of highly questionable Mooney personnel decisions. I like Pistol's game. I hope that he stays and that he enjoys a fabulous career.
First I want to say I know nothing of the situation with JP and am NOT implying anything about that situation. But one line above did stand out to me.
"Banishing a promising player to the bench for the majority of the season because of some off-court issue would be insane!"
Including medical, legal, or academic issues?
I don't think there's any conspiracy at work here. If there were some off-court issue that deserved discipline in the form of a suspension, he would have been suspended. We've suspended players before, including Josh Jones before he was kicked off the team. So the idea that Mooney would somehow "privately" discipline JP and just not play him seems illogical. I think his defense just wasn't good enough for Mooney's liking. Maybe he gave him certain parameters or things he needed to demonstrate a proficiency for in practice in order to earn game time and he never did. Who knows.
Given the title of this thread, I think it's wrong to continue this discussion of Jesse. He is clearly not being run off. It's still his decision to make. At season's end, I would have bet that he'd transfer. I'm sure the coaching staff has briefed each player, about what they need to work on, and what role they might play in future. I'm hoping Jesse stays, he has talent, and if he transferred, it might well be to a lesser program.
Competition for playing time will be even greater next year. On the other hand, CM has indicated he may play more guards than in the past.
Competition for playing time will be even greater next year. On the other hand, CM has indicated he may play more guards than in the past.
Yes, at a presser, I recall CM answering a question about future changes, and he did state that at times, we might use 3 or 4 guard sets. Not surprising. Many non power conference schools do so, some successfully, and some not. The fact is, that most of the really good bigs, go to power conference schools. But there are many more talented guards, than talented front court players.
I like the idea of playing our best players, regardless of position, and playing hard for 40 minutes. If we get outrebounded, that's been our SOP, force turnovers, be efficient on offense.
If an issue was severe enough to warrant a 20-game penalty, there should be suspension and/or dismissal. I think it was a personnel decision by the coach.
The reason JP's playing time decreased seems pretty clear to me. To understand why we must understand the entire team. Our team last year was very good offensively and very bad defensively. Almost every game we lost was due to defense, we put up more than enough points to win virtually every night. It was evident about halfway through the season that our poor defense and good offense was not a fluke, or an unlucky streak, it was our team. The reason JP's minutes decreased is the same reason JJ's increased: defense.
JP was just bad at defense. It was not for a lack of effort, he just didn't understand our defense. JP has good basketball tools, he showed promise on offense, but we didn't need offense. On the other hand JJ was much more raw offensively, he was not as good as JP, but he was lightyears ahead on defense. By the end of the season Mooney considered JJ, a true freshmen, to be one of the best defenders on the team. JJ was playing ~16 minutes a game towards the end of the season and being used as a defensive sub in offensive-defensive substitutions. He was certainly not being played for his offensive abilities, but we didn't need offense.
I think if we had a different team last year, a team where our defense was great and our offense was bad, a team where we needed offense, JP would have seen much more playing time. That was not the case, and if JP does not figure out our defense (which truly is not as hard as it is made out to be on the board, extremely similar styles are played by many other successful teams) then his minutes are not likely to increase. I hope he will get comfortable with the system and be a contributor next year, but it hinges on his ability to play defense.
JP was just bad at defense. It was not for a lack of effort, he just didn't understand our defense. JP has good basketball tools, he showed promise on offense, but we didn't need offense. On the other hand JJ was much more raw offensively, he was not as good as JP, but he was lightyears ahead on defense. By the end of the season Mooney considered JJ, a true freshmen, to be one of the best defenders on the team. JJ was playing ~16 minutes a game towards the end of the season and being used as a defensive sub in offensive-defensive substitutions. He was certainly not being played for his offensive abilities, but we didn't need offense.
I think if we had a different team last year, a team where our defense was great and our offense was bad, a team where we needed offense, JP would have seen much more playing time. That was not the case, and if JP does not figure out our defense (which truly is not as hard as it is made out to be on the board, extremely similar styles are played by many other successful teams) then his minutes are not likely to increase. I hope he will get comfortable with the system and be a contributor next year, but it hinges on his ability to play defense.
If I state it as a fact, people will still question the veracity of it, if I state it as an opinion, that gives it less credence than it in fact has. I would suggest that people be somewhat logical that it's not a coaching oversight that JP was getting meaningful time that then dropped through the floor. UR doesn't always come out publicly on these kinds of things.
Additional note, my only point in even addressing this is to quell two theories, 1) that CM was somehow ignoring JP and 2) that JP doesn't have the talent to play for us. I don't believe either to be true. I think JP will be fine and will be a solid contributor next year.
My inquiries lead me to believe there were no discipline issues. My guess is strictly hoops decision and the competition in front of him. I think by next season he will better understand and get more time, unless the competition pushes him farther down the bench.
lol, I still can't tell if you're saying this is a fact or not! maybe it's me. this shouldn't be hard. straight answer. do you know something or not?
There can be a problem without it being a "disciplinary issue". Actually makes me feel better if there was something albeit minor that was impacting the decision not to JP (if true). I trust Mooney almost without doubt to handle any off court issues, big or small, with keeping what is best for the player, team, and university in mind. And that is a sometimes a difficult balance to get.
Mooney is very spiteful, as we have all seen many times over the years. Just look at the little hand shake game he plays as the players leave the floor. Looks like JP pissed him off and was punished.
I don't feel knowledgeable enough (nor comfortable) sharing what I do know, but can safely say that it played some part in his playing time reduction although probably not all of it. I think fan2011 made a salient point that part of JPs lack of time had to do with his struggles on defense where we were already exposed. Again, my only point in even bringing this up is to try to address the conspiracy that CM somehow became anti-JP, which I don't believe to be the case.
You could be right, I do not know for a fact. I can say that we did not see evidence that would support the theory that JJ is a good defender, much less very good or great.
You may not have seen anything, but I saw a lot from JJ that showed he was a good defender. He was very good at switching correctly and, most importantly, staying in front of his man. He also demonstrated the ability to cover a large variety of players, he had he lateral quickness and instincts to stay in front of quick guards and the strength to guard small forwards. Fortunately what you or I think of a player has no impact on their playing time. It was obvious Mooney considered JJ to be one of our top defenders, which is why his playing time increased at the end of the season.
Its the offseason, I am going to be a lunatic for at least the next 7 months.
Lol, if struggles on defense reduced your playing to 0 minutes, we would have had no one on the floor all year.
I have a feeling KoVien may end up at a D2 school like Ashland or ODU (Ohio Dominican University) close to his home. Just a hunch.
Also, judging from JP's Instagram, he seems to like it here, and is good friends with the freshman walk-on.
Also, judging from JP's Instagram, he seems to like it here, and is good friends with the freshman walk-on.
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