"Running Players Off"

[urfan1]

CM is a very good representative of the University. How about CM played him one minute early in the season in a blow out, CM realized he was farther behind than he believed, practice never showed a level of improvement, so CM never gave him another chance.

 

[Eight Legger]

Yeah, honestly there are about 500 other things I will criticize Mooney for ahead of this. He played the kid one more minute than he deserved to play. The kid was lucky to get a free year at UR. No other D1 school wanted him! Move on.

 

[urmite]

Yeah, honestly there are about 500 other things I will criticize Mooney for ahead of this. He played the kid one more minute than he deserved to play. The kid was lucky to get a free year at UR. No other D1 school wanted him! Move on.

The "one minute" created a potential problem that never materialized. If he stayed and played 10 minutes a game the next few years, then the first year would be an issue.

If Buckingham plays one minute next season and stays, I'm sure there would be a lot more complaints.

 

[97spiderfan]

The "one minute" created a potential problem that never materialized. If he stayed and played 10 minutes a game the next few years, then the first year would be an issue.

If Buckingham plays one minute next season and stays, I'm sure there would be a lot more complaints.

Mooney does some weird stuff but I feel confident that is not going to happen.

 

[SpiderK]

The "one minute" created a potential problem that never materialized. If he stayed and played 10 minutes a game the next few years, then the first year would be an issue.

If Buckingham plays one minute next season and stays, I'm sure there would be a lot more complaints.

If Buckingham somehow played 1 minute for any reason other than injury, I would lead the crew running Mooney out of town. It won't happen.

 

[keefusb]

Here is the thing about all of this. CM signed KD at the 11th hour to save face and not have an open schollie. We all knew KD was a long shot, perhaps something of a project player. But if he was truly a "project", he would have had enough upside for the coaching staff to keep him around for at least another season to help him develop, but clearly this was not the case. I think the kid got jobbed in the interest of filling an open slot with a warm 6'7" body.

The greater issue is our dismal recruiting over the past 5 years. So is CM simply kicking the can down the road (i.e. he saved face last year, but this year, after running KD off, he may have two unfilled scholarships, or perhaps even worse, we end up with 2 more players who are glorified walk-ons like KD, TS, CD, and others.)? What we have is much different than the 3 kids transferring out of Ohio State. Those kids are 3 and 4 star recruits who are leaving because they want more playing time immediately, and are not willing to wait. Our recruiting must get better (even better than it supposedly will be next season), or we will be doomed to the middle of the A10 table or worse for the foreseeable future.

Piss-poor recruiting is the biggest problem we have as a program, followed closely by CM's inability to have any flexibility whatsoever in his system(s). I like CM, and think he is a good representative of our University, but at the end of the day, is a .500 program with "good kids" worth what the school is paying? I tend to think not...

 

[MrTbone]

Here is the thing about all of this. CM signed KD at the 11th hour to save face and not have an open schollie. We all knew KD was a long shot, perhaps something of a project player. But if he was truly a "project", he would have had enough upside for the coaching staff to keep him around for at least another season to help him develop, but clearly this was not the case. I think the kid got jobbed in the interest of filling an open slot with a warm 6'7" body.

The greater issue is our dismal recruiting over the past 5 years. So is CM simply kicking the can down the road (i.e. he saved face last year, but this year, after running KD off, he may have two unfilled scholarships, or perhaps even worse, we end up with 2 more players who are glorified walk-ons like KD, TS, CD, and others.)? What we have is much different than the 3 kids transferring out of Ohio State. Those kids are 3 and 4 star recruits who are leaving because they want more playing time immediately, and are not willing to wait. Our recruiting must get better (even better than it supposedly will be next season), or we will be doomed to the middle of the A10 table or worse for the foreseeable future.

Piss-poor recruiting is the biggest problem we have as a program, followed closely by CM's inability to have any flexibility whatsoever in his system(s). I like CM, and think he is a good representative of our University, but at the end of the day, is a .500 program with "good kids" worth what the school is paying? I tend to think not...

I think it's a .560 program...although I'd still give him a pass for years 1-2. But agree that the origin of the problem the last five years are recruits.

 

[Eight Legger]

Nothing again Joe Kirby, who seems to be an awesome kid, but if he gets a scholarship again next year, shame on the coaching staff. We have three spots to fill and certainly knew for awhile that Dominaus' would be among them. So if we can't fill all three with legitimate players and have to resort to giving a scholarship for a second straight year to a walk-on who never plays, that's pretty incriminating.

 

[TBSpyder]

Earlier in the season, CM said Kirby had really improved his game, and could be near joining the rotation. So, I was surprised to see that it was Moran who joined the rotation. I guess anything is possible. We've made offers to some players who are still uncommitted. Based on a JOC article, I suspect we are possibly close to adding a graduate transfer.

I've never heard CM address why JP stopped getting playing time, and why Kirby and Moran were apparently ahead of JP.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Piss-poor recruiting is the biggest problem we have as a program, followed closely by CM's inability to have any flexibility whatsoever in his system(s). I like CM, and think he is a good representative of our University, but at the end of the day, is a .500 program with "good kids" worth what the school is paying? I tend to think not...

I think it's a .560 program...although I'd still give him a pass for years 1-2. But agree that the origin of the problem the last five years are recruits.

Taking away CM's 1st two years, let's compare two A10 coaches over those 9 years for conference play. Spiders are 86-62 over that time but 8-8 in A10 tourny action. Martelli is only 75-73 but in post A10 play comes in at 14-7. I'm more satisfied by what Martelli has accomplished.

We all want more NCAA and NIT bids and CM has produced consistently better than average teams but has lacked getting them over the hump at the end of the year to satisfy most here. CM 3 times making it compared to 5 for Martelli over the last 9 years. Need not go over his time before that.

I agree great to have a quality person like CM running the Spider program ..... but with this probably his best recruiting class to date, has 2 years to show that "feeling" the program in headed in the right direction and stay there for me to say please continue as coach.

Sure hope though CM can get some Garrett/ANO type grad this season to protect the rim to get the most out of this promising class coming aboard. Don't want to think at the end of next year, if only we had this or that like the defense/great and offense/poor and visa versa the following year. The coach is paid to tie all the pieces together to make it work.

 

[Eight Legger]

I can only deduce that having a rim protector is not as important in CM's scheme as many of us feel it is. Whether or not we had Ododa last year, we still weren't going to have anyone like him or Garrett on the roster next year because we haven't recruited anyone like that. Maybe we can still get one, but that seems unlikely at this point, or it will just be someone who randomly becomes available.

Seems like if this were a top priority, signing a guy like this would have happened a long time ago.

 

[spiderman]

Here is the thing about all of this. CM signed KD at the 11th hour to save face and not have an open schollie. We all knew KD was a long shot, perhaps something of a project player. But if he was truly a "project", he would have had enough upside for the coaching staff to keep him around for at least another season to help him develop, but clearly this was not the case. I think the kid got jobbed in the interest of filling an open slot with a warm 6'7" body.

The greater issue is our dismal recruiting over the past 5 years. So is CM simply kicking the can down the road (i.e. he saved face last year, but this year, after running KD off, he may have two unfilled scholarships, or perhaps even worse, we end up with 2 more players who are glorified walk-ons like KD, TS, CD, and others.)? What we have is much different than the 3 kids transferring out of Ohio State. Those kids are 3 and 4 star recruits who are leaving because they want more playing time immediately, and are not willing to wait. Our recruiting must get better (even better than it supposedly will be next season), or we will be doomed to the middle of the A10 table or worse for the foreseeable future.

Piss-poor recruiting is the biggest problem we have as a program, followed closely by CM's inability to have any flexibility whatsoever in his system(s). I like CM, and think he is a good representative of our University, but at the end of the day, is a .500 program with "good kids" worth what the school is paying? I tend to think not...

again with saving face? ANO left 5/24. we offered Kovien and he committed 5/31. it was filling a late spot, not saving face.
we needed a big recruiting this year and we got one. it needs to continue. we definitely have Khwan in the class before. we'll know better if we'll get more from that class or not next season.

and there's no Garrett/ANO grad transfer.

 

[SouthJerseySpiderFan]

Just hoping or more appropriately praying for a one year stop gap.

 

[sdspider]

I dont like what we have done the last 5 years but am intrigued at this point as I feel the program is either going to get better under Mooney or someone else. There is a fire under his proverbial butt right now. He says things are going to change on D and we do have some decent recruits coming in. It's make or break time and that interests me to see how the saga unfolds.

In fairness to Mooney I felt like he had two potential and realistically close NCAA teams that just couldnt get over the hump. Last year last team left out and the year Ced went down we were literally on the cusp. Throw in the Charlotte debacle and things have not gone his way. It almost seems he is following the Brian Gregory mold but I hope not.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Earlier in the season, CM said Kirby had really improved his game, and could be near joining the rotation. So, I was surprised to see that it was Moran who joined the rotation. I guess anything is possible. We've made offers to some players who are still uncommitted. Based on a JOC article, I suspect we are possibly close to adding a graduate transfer.

I've never heard CM address why JP stopped getting playing time, and why Kirby and Moran were apparently ahead of JP.

I just don't get CM...sorry. Actions speak louder than words.

How many minutes did Kirby play this season? Nearing the rotation...I guess he got near then something reversed?

We probably will never know why JP stopped getting playing time. The bigger question is does he return next year? I really liked his potential, but then something (who knows what) happened.

 

[MrTbone]

JP will return and he will get time.

 

[McSpider67]

Can't disagree

Bad and inept joke.

 

[97spiderfan]

JP will return and he will get time.

Jesse being the first freshman off the bench, playing well in his time in the first half of the year, and then getting zero time the second half of the year is one of the biggest mysteries to me.

I have to think whatever happened had to be something off court, because his on-court performance was actually pretty descent. He has a nice looking stroke and played with a lot of energy. Mooney said it was due to the emergence of Khwan, which I get to a point, but still think he could have found a couple minutes per game for Jesse, especially with SDJ being banged up and Trey basically being a non-factor most games.

 

[fan2011]

Jesse being the first freshman off the bench, playing well in his time in the first half of the year, and then getting zero time the second half of the year is one of the biggest mysteries to me.

I have to think whatever happened had to be something off court, because his on-court performance was actually pretty descent. He has a nice looking stroke and played with a lot of energy. Mooney said it was due to the emergence of Khwan, which I get to a point, but still think he could have found a couple minutes per game for Jesse, especially with SDJ being banged up and Trey basically being a non-factor most games.

I know everyone on here has praised Jesse's play, but I really didn't see it. He always seemed to be in the wrong place. Hopefully he proves he deserves playing time and contributes a lot this year.

 

[MrTbone]

I know everyone on here has praised Jesse's play, but I really didn't see it. He always seemed to be in the wrong place. Hopefully he proves he deserves playing time and contributes a lot this year.

I'm closer to fan2011's opinion than what many others feel about JP, mostly because I think he played like a freshman. No big surprise. JP will be fine I think, I expect he'll contribute.

I know everyone thinks there's some big mystery with JP. I think it's safe to say there was an off court issue that relegated him to the bench for an extended period of time. I don't think we should get too hung up on it, particularly considering that pre-season, we knew there would potentially be a lot of competition between KF, JP, and JJ for time at 2. KF did end up earning a lot of that time.

 

[spiderman]

I think JP can play. love his energy. but ...
this may need a different thread, but for a minute let's assume Sherod and Buckingham are as good as I think they are. I mean, Monte was POY as a junior and could have gotten it again this year. and Nick is POY and scored 2,800 points in HS. that doesn't happen every day. these guys very well could (and maybe should) be day one starters. my ideal situation if we're going to be good next year would have Khwan as 6th man.
1 - SDJ
2 - Buckingham
3 - Sherod
4 - Wood
5 - Cline
Khwan's 1st off the bench this year and takes over the point as a junior. so that's 6.
we have Julius ahead of Jesse at guard, plus 1 or 2 from Golden/Friendshuh/Wesson/Ford. that's as deep as we'll go.
so yes, Jesse has a chance to beat someone out and earn time. but no, I don't have him getting any right now.

 

[MrTbone]

I think JP can play. love his energy. but ...
this may need a different thread, but for a minute let's assume Sherod and Buckingham are as good as I think they are. I mean, Monte was POY as a junior and could have gotten it again this year. and Nick is POY and scored 2,800 points in HS. that doesn't happen every day. these guys very well could (and maybe should) be day one starters. my ideal situation if we're going to be good next year would have Khwan as 6th man.
1 - SDJ
2 - Buckingham
3 - Sherod
4 - Wood
5 - Cline
Khwan's 1st off the bench this year and takes over the point as a junior. so that's 6.
we have Julius ahead of Jesse at guard, plus 1 or 2 from Golden/Friendshuh/Wesson/Ford. that's as deep as we'll go.
so yes, Jesse has a chance to beat someone out and earn time. but no, I don't have him getting any right now.

I have Jesse as our fourth guy at SG behind RunDMB and KF, then JJ. KF projects in years 3-4 as our PG as you note, so JP is our 3rd option behind DMB/JJ.

JP could end up competing better with JJ for backup minutes at 2G, time will tell.

 

[Eight Legger]

I'd like to see this lineup:
1-SDJ
2-Fore
3A-Buck
3B-Sherod
5-Cline

I don't think Wood can start in his current state. He doesn't do enough. I'd rather see us go small with the two freshmen. These guys are two of the most prolific scorers in Virginia high school history, so I think they'll be able to contribute on offense from day one. They may not learn our defense to Mooney's standards right away, but we sucked on defense last year too, so what the hell.

 

[fan2011]

I'd like to see this lineup:
1-SDJ
2-Fore
3A-Buck
3B-Sherod
5-Cline

I don't think Wood can start in his current state. He doesn't do enough. I'd rather see us go small with the two freshmen. These guys are two of the most prolific scorers in Virginia high school history, so I think they'll be able to contribute on offense from day one. They may not learn our defense to Mooney's standards right away, but we sucked on defense last year too, so what the hell.

I think we start all our currently signed freshmen, and go with our 6-man strategy. It didn't work well when we tried it last year, but other teams have used it effectively:



1-SDJ
2-Fore
3A-Buck
3B-Sherod
4-Golden
5-Cline

But on a more serious note, I think the season will start like this:

1-SDJ
2-Fore
3-Buck
4-Wood
5-Cline

We will end the season with a different lineup. If Buckingham and Sherod are as good as advertised and Golden/Friendshuh can take significant time away from Wood we might be pretty good next year. Although I don't know how much Mooney will want to play Friendshuh and TJ at the same time, so PF might not be able to take time from Wood.

 

[spiderman]

8, I agree that's our best 5 players but that's going too small. Sherod should not be playing the bottom of out matchup zone.
I think Wood, but if not then one of the other bigger guys.

 

[97spiderfan]

I know everyone on here has praised Jesse's play, but I really didn't see it. He always seemed to be in the wrong place. Hopefully he proves he deserves playing time and contributes a lot this year.

2011, I know you don't get see a lot of games in person, but I never saw Jesse out of place all that much, watching him live. And personally, I think it is much more difficult to see things like this on TV. He certainly was no more out of place Julius was or I would expect a typical freshman to be. Yes, he was out of place sometimes, always though, I didn't see that.

What I did see was him being aggressive on defense and having a pretty nice looking jumper. I was impressed with his confidence as a freshman, he was a much more confident player than Julius. And being out of place and still making plays like Jesse did, is not something that would result in essentially being benched at mid season. Had to be something off the court that also contributed to that.

 

[MrTbone]

2011, I know you don't get see a lot of games in person, but I never saw Jesse out of place all that much, watching him live. And personally, I think it is much more difficult to see things like this on TV. He certainly was no more out of place Julius was or I would expect a typical freshman to be. Yes, he was out of place sometimes, always though, I didn't see that.

What I did see was him being aggressive on defense and having a pretty nice looking jumper. I was impressed with his confidence as a freshman, he was a much more confident player than Julius. And being out of place and still making plays like Jesse did, is not something that would result in essentially being benched at mid season. Had to be something off the court that also contributed to that.

97, have to disagree. I go to every home game, JP was out of position multiple times on both O and D. Again, freshman stuff, totally correctible, but he was definitely guilty of this.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I'm closer to fan2011's opinion than what many others feel about JP, mostly because I think he played like a freshman. No big surprise. JP will be fine I think, I expect he'll contribute.

I know everyone thinks there's some big mystery with JP. I think it's safe to say there was an off court issue that relegated him to the bench for an extended period of time. I don't think we should get too hung up on it, particularly considering that pre-season, we knew there would potentially be a lot of competition between KF, JP, and JJ for time at 2. KF did end up earning a lot of that time.

I too felt that Jesse was very freshmen like which he was from the standpoint of being lost a lot on both defense and offense. He had a high energy level that I loved and very quick. He and Kwan are the two quickest on the team and next year could be a killer on fast breaks and breaking presses.

 

[97spiderfan]

97, have to disagree. I go to every home game, JP was out of position multiple times on both O and D. Again, freshman stuff, totally correctible, but he was definitely guilty of this.

Fair enough. It's a legit criticism and not completely unfounded, still don't see that as the primary reason he want from 5-10 minutes per game to absolutely zip, especially when he was doing some positive things out on the court. This is type of thing that you know and expect freshman to have to work through, but not giving him anytime, it is tough for him to gain seasoning.

I just saw him and Julius fairly equal in terms of being out of position but saw Jesse making more plays than Julius to counteract his freshman tendencies.

 

[MrTbone]

Fair enough. It's a legit criticism and not completely unfounded, still don't see that as the primary reason he want from 5-10 minutes per game to absolutely zip, especially when he was doing some positive things out on the court. This is type of thing that you know and expect freshman to have to work through, but not giving him anytime, it is tough for him to gain seasoning.

I just saw him and Julius fairly equal in terms of being out of position but saw Jesse making more plays than Julius to counteract his freshman tendencies.

He went from 5-10 minutes to zip because of off court issues, I am confident of this fact. I would agree he made more plays than Julius but I think he made more mistakes too. Net zero effect imho, I think both guys will come in an compete for time next year. I personally like Julius' upside but think there's a place for both of them. We need more depth at SG and SF than we've had, it's been like a thirsty man walking the desert for too long at those spots.

 

[SpiderK]

97, have to disagree. I go to every home game, JP was out of position multiple times on both O and D. Again, freshman stuff, totally correctible, but he was definitely guilty of this.

I agree he was out of position, but so were the older guys. What I liked about JJ and especially JP and KF was the energy and life they breathed into the team when they came in. They seemed to be trying to win as opposed to the older guys who were expecting to lose.

 

[mcspider]

Jesse seems to have good general basketball instincts, but not comfort in the Spiders' O and D systems. Because of the instincts I definitely wanted to see him get more PT, so that he would pick up the systems a little more each time out. But I don't make those decisions.

 

[spiderman]

Khwan picked it up during his time on the bench when he was hurt. And he couldn't even practice. You need to stay mentally sharp, watching and learning. I hope the guys like Jesse who didn't get that much game time took advantage of the sideline viewpoint and mentally took in all aspects of our offensive and defensive schemes.

 

[SpiderGuy]

97, have to disagree. I go to every home game, JP was out of position multiple times on both O and D. Again, freshman stuff, totally correctible, but he was definitely guilty of this.

I was at almost every home game & had good seats. I'm going to split the difference between you & 97. Yes, he was out of place some but not enough to be relegated to zero playing time. On balance I thought he brought more to the mix than JJ. He was a far more productive offensive player - very nice shooter's stroke.

I hope he plays a bunch next year, but with the "perception" of incoming freshmen and the way Mooney doesn't use his bench, I'm not sure how much playing time JP gets... assuming he stays on the team.

 

[MrTbone]

I was at almost every home game & had good seats. I'm going to split the difference between you & 97. Yes, he was out of place some but not enough to be relegated to zero playing time. On balance I thought he brought more to the mix than JJ. He was a far more productive offensive player - very nice shooter's stroke.

I hope he plays a bunch next year, but with the "perception" of incoming freshmen and the way Mooney doesn't use his bench, I'm not sure how much playing time JP gets... assuming he stays on the team.

I feel like a broken record, JPs bench time was not a performance issue. He didn't get benched because of making mistakes. But he did make mistakes. So does every other freshman pretty much.

 

[MolivaManiac]

I just don't understand what is being implied about Jesse not playing. Do people think he was disrespectful to a ball boy or looked at Mooney's wife the wrong way?

Is it really that far of a reach that Mooney really liked Khwan and wanted the give Moran the small handful of remaining minutes?

There are plenty of things to criticize CM about without looking for the boogeyman.

 

[MrTbone]

I just don't understand what is being implied about Jesse not playing. Do people think he was disrespectful to a ball boy or looked at Mooney's wife the wrong way?

Is it really that far of a reach that Mooney really liked Khwan and wanted the give Moran the small handful of remaining minutes?

There are plenty of things to criticize CM about without looking for the boogeyman.

I think you are correct in this regard, KF earned his time at 2. For some reason people seem to think CM cast JO to the wind. It's just not the case. He did lose time though and there's a non playing reason for it.

 

[Ulla1]

Unless you have information to the contrary, there is absolutely no evidence of any off court issue here. Don't know why some of you are always making up stuff. Please try to focus on the facts. OSC

 

[MrTbone]

Unless you have information to the contrary, there is absolutely no evidence of any off court issue here. Don't know why some of you are always making up stuff. Please try to focus on the facts. OSC

I don't know why this is so difficult to comprehend but if you prefer to believe that CM suddenly hated JPs game enough to give him no minutes then I guess that's your prerogative.

 

[ur2K]

I don't know why this is so difficult to comprehend but if you prefer to believe that CM suddenly hated JPs game enough to give him no minutes then I guess that's your prerogative.

But do you know this to be true, or is it conjecture? Big difference there.