"Running Players Off"

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GW playing in MSG Thursday for Trophy.What are we doing on Thursday?Looking for players,I hope.Lonergan and what he's done in last 3 years
is noteworthy.Take he and his team anyday.Great recruiter.Neither UR nor GW have rostered players that are members of Mensa.We would take 28-10 and an NIT championship any year.

 

[SpiderK]

we'll see how they turn out over time, but didn't those 3 freshmen barely do more than Kovien?

Heck, we had two seniors that barely did more than Kovien and used hundreds of minutes to do it.

 

[spiderman]

Heck, we had two seniors that barely did more than Kovien and used hundreds of minutes to do it.

ugh. again?
point was that Wade is getting praised here for filling roster spots late whether they're any good or not, yet we grab a 6'7" shooter to fill a hole created when someone transferred in late May and some complain that we should have had a better backup plan.

 

[Eight Legger]

ugh. again?
point was that Wade is getting praised here for filling roster spots late whether they're any good or not, yet we grab a 6'7" shooter to fill a hole created when someone transferred in late May and some complain that we should have had a better backup plan.

I hate VCU but Billbury and Hamdy played key roles for them this year. And both were very late transfers under Wade. We got a guy who played one minute.

 

[spiderman]

the transfer and the juco were good. the 3 freshmen didn't do anything.
and we're not taking a juco that was academically ineligible as a freshman.

 

[97spiderfan]

We clearly should have had a better "back-up" plan than signing a guy who played 1 minute and then transferred the next year. I'm not sure we could have found a worse back-up plan than that.

Maybe bringing in a player like Billbury would have been a better plan considering we had a huge gaping hole at the SG position.

 

[spiderman]

We clearly should have had a better "back-up" plan than signing a guy who played 1 minute and then transferred the next year. I'm not sure we could have found a worse back-up plan than that.

Maybe bringing in a player like Billbury would have been a better plan considering we had a huge gaping hole at the SG position.

yeah maybe. or maybe we had concerns. maybe the fact that he was suspended for the last 6 games at his last school raised some red flags. and yes, maybe a kid deserves another chance, but that's a decision you make for your program. you don't just offer any kid because he can play.

 

[97spiderfan]

Didn't have to be Billbury specifically, but we had several holes, that we elected or were unable to fill. As you like to point out there 800 transfers each year, you think just one of them would have appropriately filled one of these holes.

We have several holes this year and in future years, I hope we can get one of those 800 or so transfer on board to meet a program need. I'm sure they all don't have questionable paths or are knuckle dragging idiots that can't meet admission standards. Mooney's job is to get those players.

 

[spiderman]

you've seen the list so far. the vast majority are guys with no numbers at all. and yes, many won't meet out admissions standards. the few that were doing anything at all are attracting a ton of interest. many schools have openings now. talking to a fan of Memphis, they currently have like 5 slots to fill as kids have announced they're transferring out.

 

[Eight Legger]

you've seen the list so far. the vast majority are guys with no numbers at all. and yes, many won't meet out admissions standards. the few that were doing anything at all are attracting a ton of interest. many schools have openings now. talking to a fan of Memphis, they currently have like 5 slots to fill as kids have announced they're transferring out.

So what's your solution? Cry uncle and roll over?

 

[spiderman]

no, keep working. but as fans, don't whine every time a kid chooses somewhere else. and don't tell me what a great job Wade did filling 5 spots compared to us when one had red flags due to a team suspension, one was an academic issue juco, two true freshmen barely played, and the 3rd I can't find anyone about ... I assume redshirted.

 

[Eight Legger]

I don't know who is whining because a kid picked another school. I think the complaining is that with 800 transfers and a bunch of recruits, the best we could do was a guy who was never going to see the floor for us anyway. And VCU's freshmen didn't play because they returned 4 starters and had a lot of talent on the team already, a "problem" we didn't face.

 

[spiderman]

guess I'm just still waiting for the constant frustration to subside and I'm afraid it won't all off season. we're complaining about recruiting when by all accounts the last 3 we've landed are terrific. we don't know about the last freshman class yet. other than Khwan they didn't play a ton. so we assume they're no good, yet we give Wade credit for being some recruiting savant for landing 5 kids who as I've mentioned either didn't do anything, or had red flags, or had academics that wouldn't fly here.

 

[spider23]

Spiderman, I guess people may be complaining about recruiting b/c we did have some good classes early, which triggered our back to back NCAA's, then seemed to slack off - as opposed to striking when the iron is hot. Like Shaka and Wade continue to do. We probably feel that if we continue to harp for for 4 more years that hopefully we continue to recruit like we did in the 2016 class for a sustained perior and not just 2 years

 

[97spiderfan]

Wade deserve credit for bringing in 2 guys who plugged immediate holes and allowed VCU to make into the NCAA and win a game in his first year on the job. Time will tell if Wade is a good recruiter and can sustain that success. Mooney has already answered that question for us.

Perhaps my "frustration" will wane when I see us bringing in a full class of players that at least profile as quality A-10 players. The 3 players he brought in so far appear to profile as that, but being that we have 6 scholarship openings, according to my math, he is 50% done with his recruitment requirements this year.

 

[spiderman]

let's see how this month goes.
I'm very excited with the current class so far and while they're only verbals, I'm very excited about the early start of the next class too with Godwin and Schneider. And I'm excited that we're building an early relationship with B Golden.

 

[97spiderfan]

let's see how this month goes.
I'm very excited with the current class so far and while they're only verbals, I'm very excited about the early start of the next class too with Godwin and Schneider. And I'm excited that we're building an early relationship with B Golden.

I agree. The 5 incoming recruits all appears to A-10 level prospects. That is a big improvement. If Mooney is able to fill out the remainder of this class with a similar level prospects or transfers, than I think we will see really concrete evidence that he may be turning the ship around from 3 years of really below average recruiting.

 

[MrTbone]

We clearly should have had a better "back-up" plan than signing a guy who played 1 minute and then transferred the next year. I'm not sure we could have found a worse back-up plan than that.

Maybe bringing in a player like Billbury would have been a better plan considering we had a huge gaping hole at the SG position.

Interestingly, I would say all/most of us, felt the need for a more traditional SG for this past season, knowing that TD was not really that kind of player. I would be willing to bet that CM didn't see that as a need for us which may have been correct if our defense hadn't been so dreadful.

 

[spiderman]

I hope I'm wrong, but I think it's a long shot that he fills out the whole class with guys similar to Buck, Sherod and Golden if they're as good as we think. but we'll see. if he does I'll be so excited I wont be able to sleep!
I think Wesson's totally at that level. possibly Ford. but we're one of many vying for those two. don't get the nod from one of them and we're probably realistically looking at a pretty big drop off. that's why CM's done everything possible with Wesson. like he did with White III.
some interesting transfers available. we'll know a lot more within a few weeks.

 

[coachfezz]

i think question for me is how Mr Wade does very good as rookie and Coach plays magic defense

 

[MrTbone]

So what is the deal on Ford btw? Everyone's on Wesson like a fat kid on a cupcake, but seems like we've got scholarships to give. I don't know how the offers really work I guess...is there some kind of pecking order that the coaches tell the recruits that "we're waiting to hear from this guy, but if he doesn't accept, we want you?" Seems impractical, but clearly there are more offers out there than spots, and I presume it's not just a first come, first served scenario.

 

[Eight Legger]

Wesson's offer will be there until he signs elsewhere. Not sure about Ford, given that we may prefer a transfer or two.

 

[PhiDeltaSpider]

So what is the deal on Ford btw? Everyone's on Wesson like a fat kid on a cupcake, but seems like we've got scholarships to give. I don't know how the offers really work I guess...is there some kind of pecking order that the coaches tell the recruits that "we're waiting to hear from this guy, but if he doesn't accept, we want you?" Seems impractical, but clearly there are more offers out there than spots, and I presume it's not just a first come, first served scenario.

I suspect we will pick up a transfer or two this offseason, and I hope they will be good ones; however, what bothers me the most about this sorry Kovien mess is that this young man burned one year of his eligibility by "playing" less than one minute in a meaningless game. Mooney's decision to use up this young man's eligibility by playing him for less than a minute was unconscionable. For the life of me, I cannot figure out what Mooney thought he would gain by purposely taking away a year's eligibility from Kovien. If he was not good enough to play, then why play him at all or better yet, why recruit him? If he was a project and just needed some "seasoning," then play him in other games and let him get better. If he can't cut it, then let him sit the bench and transfer with 4 years of eligibility left. It makes no sense. Please, someone enlighten me. What am I missing?

 

[97spiderfan]

We have 3 openings and huge need at the 4. I think we would take both of them if they both wanted to come. Wesson clearly is Option A though, but I bet if Ford said he wanted to come here, we would take him tomorrow.

Reality is we could take both of these guys and still have another scholarship for a transfer of our choice.

 

[spiderman]

I agree Wesson's offer stands. I assume Ford's does too. it could be that Ford wants to know where Wesson is going, if the question is "if I sign are you still going hard after Wesson" and the answer is yes.

 

[spiderman]

I suspect we will pick up a transfer or two this offseason, and I hope they will be good ones; however, what bothers me the most about this sorry Kovien mess is that this young man burned one year of his eligibility by "playing" less than one minute in a meaningless game. Mooney's decision to use up this young man's eligibility by playing him for less than a minute was unconscionable. For the life of me, I cannot figure out what Mooney thought he would gain by purposely taking away a year's eligibility from Kovien. If he was not good enough to play, then why play him at all or better yet, why recruit him? If he was a project and just needed some "seasoning," then play him in other games and let him get better. If he can't cut it, then let him sit the bench and transfer with 4 years of eligibility left. It makes no sense. Please, someone enlighten me. What am I missing?

Phi, I wonder if there's any precedent to requesting another year of eligibility in this case. I know VCU did that with the juco transfer last year after he got bad advice to stay in Juco for an extra year which somehow burned a year of college eligibility. wherever Kovien ends up, he should look into this. the NCAA shouldn't deny him for 1 minute in the spirit of the rule.

 

[Eight Legger]

I think the Dominaus thing looks worse than it was. At the time, I doubt Mooney was thinking "Hey, this is the perfect opportunity to really screw this kid over as punishment for our terrible recruiting analysis of his talent. I'll never play him another minute all year."

He put him in to get a minute of action, but then at some point it became apparent he just wasn't going to play any more. Everyone else on the roster was ahead of him, for one reason or another. Whether he had played 5 more minutes or 70, would it really have mattered in the end?

 

[urmite]

no, keep working. but as fans, don't whine every time a kid chooses somewhere else. and don't tell me what a great job Wade did filling 5 spots compared to us when one had red flags due to a team suspension, one was an academic issue juco, two true freshmen barely played, and the 3rd I can't find anyone about ... I assume redshirted.

Only one of their 3 freshman played, or else they are going to be forfeiting games. 2 of them were declared ineligible by the NCAA for play this past season but I believe at the same time cleared to play next season. One of them was because of foreign transcripts, don't know about the other. Both were committed to other schools (Minnesota & St John) who decided to not take the chance on waiting a year (their status was undecided at the time).

I thought Billbury was not just suspended from the team but expelled from school. I also thought the reason was that he had sex with his wife (ok, his fiancé got pregnant).

Kovien is 6'5" but listed as 6'7" in High School (measurement changed first week he was here). I believe he was not considered in the top 1000 High School seniors by recruiters, but had been playing much better after they last evaluated him. Whether that is worth taking a chance on for your 12th or 13th man is debatable but should be dismissed out of hand.

What type of chances we want to take on recruits is a different discussion.

 

[fan2011]

Wesson's offer will be there until he signs elsewhere. Not sure about Ford, given that we may prefer a transfer or two.

I think the Dominaus thing looks worse than it was. At the time, I doubt Mooney was thinking "Hey, this is the perfect opportunity to really screw this kid over as punishment for our terrible recruiting analysis of his talent. I'll never play him another minute all year."

He put him in to get a minute of action, but then at some point it became apparent he just wasn't going to play any more. Everyone else on the roster was ahead of him, for one reason or another. Whether he had played 5 more minutes or 70, would it really have mattered in the end?

Also, since he is transferring it literally doesn't matter at all. He will have to sit out next year, and will use his redshirt then. If he redshirted this year, he would lose a year next year sitting out instead of losing it playing 1 minute for us this past season. He gets 3 years at his next school either way.

 

[spiderman]

thanks, mite. didn't know the details on Billbury. makes sense coming from Oral Roberts.
looking at VCU stats, freshmen Riullano and Scissum played in a few games. Nwankwo and Doughty didn't. I don't know more than that though.

 

[spiderman]

Also, since he is transferring it literally doesn't matter at all. He will have to sit out next year, and will use his redshirt then. If he redshirted this year, he would lose a year next year sitting out instead of losing it playing 1 minute for us this past season. He gets 3 years at his next school either way.

good point!
Could transfer to D2 and play right away though, right?

 

[urmite]

thanks, mite. didn't know the details on Billbury. makes sense coming from Oral Roberts.
looking at VCU stats, freshmen Riullano and Scissum played in a few games. Nwankwo and Doughty didn't. I don't know more than that though.

Yes, I was going to rag on them about Billbury until I saw the details. Riullano is a walk-on, and the son of Nwankwo's High School host family.

 

[MrTbone]

I suspect we will pick up a transfer or two this offseason, and I hope they will be good ones; however, what bothers me the most about this sorry Kovien mess is that this young man burned one year of his eligibility by "playing" less than one minute in a meaningless game. Mooney's decision to use up this young man's eligibility by playing him for less than a minute was unconscionable. For the life of me, I cannot figure out what Mooney thought he would gain by purposely taking away a year's eligibility from Kovien. If he was not good enough to play, then why play him at all or better yet, why recruit him? If he was a project and just needed some "seasoning," then play him in other games and let him get better. If he can't cut it, then let him sit the bench and transfer with 4 years of eligibility left. It makes no sense. Please, someone enlighten me. What am I missing?

As has been noted in other threads, sometimes these guys choose not to take the coach's advice on redshirting. No idea if that's what happened here. CM has shown a strong propensity to advocate developmental redshirts, so I'm presuming either the staff thought Kovien could contribute or Kovien himself thought so. We short-benched everybody, so Kovien isn't the only guy treated this way. If he had played mop-up time in roughly half our games, he would have played 15-20 minutes instead, so what's the magic line where his time goes from being meaningless to meaningful?

 

[spiderman]

I'd say about 200. wait, was that rhetorical?

 

[MrTbone]

I'd say about 200. wait, was that rhetorical?

I appreciate the effort...

 

[urmite]

As has been noted in other threads, sometimes these guys choose not to take the coach's advice on redshirting. No idea if that's what happened here. CM has shown a strong propensity to advocate developmental redshirts, so I'm presuming either the staff thought Kovien could contribute or Kovien himself thought so. We short-benched everybody, so Kovien isn't the only guy treated this way. If he had played mop-up time in roughly half our games, he would have played 15-20 minutes instead, so what's the magic line where his time goes from being meaningless to meaningful?

If they are going to transfer then no magic line, if they are going to stay then however many minutes it takes for them to be a better player the next year. (Unlike spiderman, is that vague enough for ya?)

 

[TBSpyder]

CM has proved himself immature at times, and mean spirited. I admire him as a coach, but he's less than perfect. It matters not what Kovien decided about redshirting, CM inexcusably played him for a minute. I can't imagine what Kovien could have done to excuse that.

He will transfer to a D2 school, but now will only have 3 years of eligibility, thanks to CM. The fact that no announcement has been made, about transfers out, leads me to believe that one or two players are still mulling it over. I'm very surprised about JP, he was so enthusiastic at start of season, and moribund at the end. I expected him to transfer. I hope he doesn't. If he doesn't, I'd assume the coaching staff has indicated we are going to play with more 3 or 4 guard sets , this year. PF is the other player who CM stiffed at end of season. We are woefully short of bigs next year. If PF and Grant Golden, can contribute next year, we may have a stronger team than many expect.

 

[MrTbone]

CM has proved himself immature at times, and mean spirited. I admire him as a coach, but he's less than perfect. It matters not what Kovien decided about redshirting, CM inexcusably played him for a minute. I can't imagine what Kovien could have done to excuse that.

He will transfer to a D2 school, but now will only have 3 years of eligibility, thanks to CM. The fact that no announcement has been made, about transfers out, leads me to believe that one or two players are still mulling it over. I'm very surprised about JP, he was so enthusiastic at start of season, and moribund at the end. I expected him to transfer. I hope he doesn't. If he doesn't, I'd assume the coaching staff has indicated we are going to play with more 3 or 4 guard sets , this year. PF is the other player who CM stiffed at end of season. We are woefully short of bigs next year. If PF and Grant Golden, can contribute next year, we may have a stronger team than many expect.

Would it change your opinion if there was an off court problem that caused/necessitated him not getting any playing time?

 

[TBSpyder]

Would it change your opinion if there was an off court problem that caused/necessitated him not getting any playing time?

Yes, it would. But I'm not aware of such a problem.

 

[MrTbone]

Well consider it a distinct possibility. I think most folks on this board would acknowledge CM to be a likable guy and a fairly upstanding representative of the university, regardless of where they land on his coaching performance. So What's more likely...he played a guy for 1 minute out of spite? Or that a kid rode the pine for other reasons. Just because you/we are unaware of a problem doesn't mean it doesn't exist.