Rotation 2021-2

[spider23]

I know, not much left up to the imagination this year, but here we go:

1 - Gilly - not much scraps left here. 37 minutes per game. Will Nelson be healthy and get on the floor this year? Or will Wilson take any available minutes?
2 - Most intrguing spot obviously. I am penciling in Dji here as starter. Hoping he comes back with a 33+% 3pt shot. Like his length/defense here at the 2. As much success as we have had rolling out 2 very small guards, it has killed us on defense and not pushed us into the dance. Goose will certainly be in play, but hoping Dji wins the spot and Goose gets a lot of burn. Wilson looked good and plays D, but size and question on scoring I go Dji. Like his dad's confidence too .
3 - Burton - 30 minutes/game, more if stays out of foul trouble. Yes, Sherod needs to play if healthy. Goose here too. And....Crabtree too. But Crabtree has not been able to stay on the court so not counting on him.
4 - Cayo - Great improvement year to year BUT needs to keep it up, and improve on defense and mid range jumper. It's great he can hit a FT now, but sometimes not great on D, and can be painful to watch a guy sag five feet in the lane when he has the ball at the elbow. Lots of opportunity for Sal here.
5- Golden. The load balance with bringing in Grace worked well, Mooney will no doubt stick with the same plan. Grace played pretty well in NIT and throughout the year. Needs improve strength/aggression/quickness, but wont matter he will get minutes to rest Grant.

I think it would make sense to use a line up with Burton at the four some, especially when more shooting is needed - that allows Sherod and Crabtree to get some minutes.

Freshmen - Will be interesting to see if any get opportunity. Likely would only be due to injury.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I got a feeling Sherod fills in that 2 spot. For two reasons - he was probably our best shooter prior to the injury, and I don't expect that to change much post-injury. And because Mooney always favors the upperclassmen.

I know people on here will say he is not a 2 - but he is 6-4/6-5 and has good length. With him on the floor - Burton, Cayo, and Sherod basically become interchangeable on defense and can switch everything among the 3 of them. BUT - I don't expect Sherod to play 30+ minutes a night. I could see him getting 25-30 a night, which leaves some time for other guys. Mainly Wilson and DJ.

Goose becomes our main bench player. But he can sub in for Cayo, Sherod, or Burton. Crabtree might get some minutes, but with Sherod back - he will be limited as well - but I think he sees some time.

Odd men out are likely incoming frosh - I see little to no time for them available. And I could see nights where Wilson or DJ play very little or none at all. And we get the story of "got to find minutes for them".

I agree Grace is main sub for Grant. Might see Sal from time to time for Golden or Cayo, but not enough to make an impact.

 

[Eight Legger]

Sherod can play the 2 on offense but not on defense. As long as we have someone else in the court to defend the other team's 2, it's not a problem. But in the lineup above that sense most likely, it would have to be Burton, and I'm not positive we want him defending the 2 too much either.

 

[spiderman]

Sherod is a really good basketball player. assuming he's healthy I think he plays a lot. he's not going to be a top defender in man to man whether he's a 2 or a 3, but he's smart and will make it work.

Gilly
Nick
Burton
Cayo
Grant

we're running it back and we have the talent. great bench too.

 

[Eight Legger]

The problem I have with him at the 2 is that his man will beat him off the dribble often, and then the rest of our defense has to play catch up. This happened a decent amount two years ago. If there's a scheme to backfill and mitigate that, then maybe it can work. But a couple years ago, it led to a lot of open shots for the other guys.

 

[CarolinaSpider]

Sal and Grace played well in NIT and i can see Cayo getting more rest and Sal filling in here.
There are quite a few lineups we can use. I would love to see more pressure defense like we did in
the NIT. We have depth and should take advantage of it.

 

[97spiderfan]

The problem I have with him at the 2 is that his man will beat him off the dribble often, and then the rest of our defense has to play catch up. This happened a decent amount two years ago. If there's a scheme to backfill and mitigate that, then maybe it can work. But a couple years ago, it led to a lot of open shots for the other guys.

This is why I think Dji is in the running for significant minutes at the 2. From an offensive perspective, having Sherod start at the 2 is a no brainer. However, having Sherod trying to guard a quick 2 guard is not going to go well, especially when the interior defense provided by our starting center is the basic equivalent of a turnstile.

I think Dji makes our defense significantly better and I think with our other weapons on the court, what we need is not additional offensive power but for us to play better defense.

I personally would love to see Grant play a hard 20-25 minutes per game on both ends of the floor, knowing that we have Grace and Sal to provide suitable back-up minutes. Than Grant play 30 minutes of soft defense. If Grant can play the former and up his defense, it might make sense for Sherod to start at the 2.

 

[spiderman]

I think Grant's defense gets bashed undeservedly. it was solid last year. no, he isn't a leaper. he can't cover up mistakes made by perimeter guys. neither can Matt or Sal. but when Grant helps, someone needs to rotate to his man. taking a hard foul which is so often proposed on this site isn't the answer.

Nick helps spread things out so much on the offensive end. if he shoots anywhere near the 43.8% from 3 that he hit his last year, he plays all he can.

I also wonder if Nick being back will help Jacob. we really need him to get back to his historical percentages. 41% from 2 is pretty awful and 33.6% from 3 is below his standards too.

 

[SpiderTrap]

Grant averaged 27 minutes last year. I think he stays there or goes up to 30. Burton was at 30 and I could see him increasing, even to a point like Francis and Gil of 35+ - assuming he can stay out of foul trouble. The biggest ? is Sherod. Predictions and expectations for him I believe on this board fall from coming off the bench for 10-15 minutes as a shooter to being a starter for 30 minutes.

I think if Sherod can play 25+ a night and look close to the same as he was before, I don't think we see Wilson or DJI all that much. Yes - they played well at the end of season when given the chance, but I just think Mooney, at least to begin the season - will give the minutes and opportunities to upperclassmen like Sherod and Gustav before those 2.

And I really don't see many minutes for the frosh, which will beg the question - do they redshirt - since I don't believe they get the extra COVID year.

 

[spiderman]

correct, they don't get an extra year. I'd like to go into the year with the freshmen telling them we won't burn your year just for the heck of it ... only if we think we're going to use you extensively. if we don't use them, it's a redshirt. no guarantee they'd stay for their 4th year of eligibility, but it's the right thing to do to give them that option.

unless of course one or more is so good he forces his way into the rotation this year.

 

[97spiderfan]

I think Grant's defense gets bashed undeservedly. it was solid last year. no, he isn't a leaper. he can't cover up mistakes made by perimeter guys. neither can Matt or Sal. but when Grant helps, someone needs to rotate to his man. taking a hard foul which is so often proposed on this site isn't the answer.

Nick helps spread things out so much on the offensive end. if he shoots anywhere near the 43.8% from 3 that he hit his last year, he plays all he can.

I also wonder if Nick being back will help Jacob. we really need him to get back to his historical percentages. 41% from 2 is pretty awful and 33.6% from 3 is below his stan

I'd rather see 20-25 minutes from Grant/Nick/Cayo of full on max effort, knowing that we can throw Wilson, Dji, Goose, Connor, Sal/Grace in for another intense 15 minutes or so. We should use this depth to wear teams down, it is our huge advantage.

We have had a habit of our own players being worn down at the end of the game these past few years, we should use our depth to make sure that is that is the other's team problem this year.

 

[SpiderTrap]

correct, they don't get an extra year. I'd like to go into the year with the freshmen telling them we won't burn your year just for the heck of it ... only if we think we're going to use you extensively. if we don't use them, it's a redshirt. no guarantee they'd stay for their 4th year of eligibility, but it's the right thing to do to give them that option.

unless of course one or more is so good he forces his way into the rotation this year.

There are two things working against the frosh. Our loaded upperclassmen team with basically everyone returning and the fact Mooney usually favors the upperclassmen. You could argue this team is similar to the 2nd year of our back to back NCAA team from 10 years ago. In 2011 - we had a lot returning from the 2010 NCAA team. Frosh that year were Sparrow, Williams, and Lindsay. Lindsay was the only one to really break the rotation getting 16 minutes a game and playing in every game. But I also think he had a much better opportunity as we lost Gonzalvez to graduation, and the only suitable replacements were Brothers (only a soph at the time) and then Lindsay. Whereas on this team I think with Sherod returning and Goose returning - I think the opportunity to break the rotation at the 2 spot - which is really the only spot with a lot of opportunity, is a little more slim than back in 2011.

But I agree - if you don't plan on using a frosh every game for 5+ minutes a game, then don't burn them. Let them redshirt.

 

[spiderman]

thinking about redshirts ...

I think we'd all agree Noyes makes sense. I know he can probably play the 2, 3 or 4 but at his height and with our roster configuration I think the long term plan is at the 4. at that spot he's a little thin, he's got Cayo and Sal ahead of him, and Burton can slide there if needed. so a shirt makes sense.

Nelson, I don't know. he's been sitting out a long time already. having him sit all the way until 11/2022 might be too much assuming he's expected to be thrown right into the rotation then.

I'd have to hear more about Dread, but he certainly looks physically ready to play.

and Randolph might be our most talented freshman scorer.

but yeah, there's a lot of quality players ahead of all of them.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Solid assessments guys esp 23😉…If I’m a betting man, and I’m not really 🤣 I personally don’t think Nick is playing the 2. I do like to think I have a little inside edge 😀 I do agree that Dji can make us better defensively up top but he is still relatively unproven. I’ll tuck Spidertraps assessment in the back and be more than happy to bring it back up at a later date😀. But hey it’s always fun to speculate about the guys. We should be very good. 🕷🏀

 

[spider23]

Love Nick the player, his shooting ability and clutch shot making. But he was not a guard in Mooney's scheme pre injury and certainly not post injury. Handle and defense are much more suited to wing/forward. He will be on the court making shots if healthy enough, but will be on the court with 2 guards.

 

[Eight Legger]

If you told me only one of our freshmen didn't redshirt, I'd say it would be Nelson. He plays a position that is probably the easiest HS-to-college transition, and I think he's also the most college-ready player. But I guess that also depends on how we view Wilson. I don't really think of him as a true point guard, but if Mooney does, then Nelson probably redshirts too.

 

[spiderman]

Love Nick the player, his shooting ability and clutch shot making. But he was not a guard in Mooney's scheme pre injury and certainly not post injury. Handle and defense are much more suited to wing/forward. He will be on the court making shots if healthy enough, but will be on the court with 2 guards.

I don't know. maybe we ask Gilly to be a total PG instead of him giving the ball to someone else to bring up half the time. we don't have to run a 2 PG offense. once we're in our offensive set, there's no difference between a 2 and a 3.

to me, even with our depth I think Grant, Jacob, Tyler and Nathan are all getting close to 30 mpg. I just don't see Nick getting just 10 mpg behind Tyler if he's healthy. that's not who he is as a player. he's a 1200 point scorer and a leader. he's worked hard to get back. if healthy, I'm betting he plays. personally I start him at the 2 and he probably comes out first. then maybe he comes back in at the 3 to give Burton a rest. but we'll see.

 

[RichmondNative]

I honestly am surprised that Nick came back to play and will be even more surprised if he plays 25+ minutes a game. It is a huge bonus that he came back because of his leadership abilities, but I don’t see him as one who is going to push for max minutes. There may be games where Nick plays 25+ because he is hot and the matchup is favorable however. This all assumes that his knees don’t cause any issues and I definitely hope he does not have any setbacks.

As others have mentioned, there is a bunch of depth on this team and CM HAS to use it. To rely solely on the “super seniors” plus Burton all year is a sure way to make the worst of a great situation. That being said, I don’t think we will see most of the freshman beyond what is allowed to still get a redshirt. Assuming Nelson is physically ready to play, I could see him being the exception.

 

[SpiderDad75]

Love Nick the player, his shooting ability and clutch shot making. But he was not a guard in Mooney's scheme pre injury and certainly not post injury. Handle and defense are much more suited to wing/forward. He will be on the court making shots if healthy enough, but will be on the court with 2 guards.

This right here 😀

 

[spiderman]

He will be on the court making shots if healthy enough, but will be on the court with 2 guards.

if he's healthy and shooting 43.8% from 3, are you sliding Burton to the 4 and playing Sherod for Cayo? because if he's healthy and shooting 43.8% from 3, he's going to play a lot more than the 8 mpg behind Burton.

I've said it before ... this would be a good problem to have, but it would still be a problem.

 

[RichmondNative]

what we need is not additional offensive power but for us to play better defense.

It is as simple as the statement above. The problem with last year’s team as compared to the previous year was defensive efficiency. If you want to be ranked high by the computers as well as going deep in tournaments, a team has to have great defense. No team is going to simply outscore its opponents every night. Scoring is fun to watch, but it alone isn’t going to lead to postseason success.

Looking forward to a well balanced Spider team.

 

[spider23]

Great points, been a complaint of mine for awhile, Mooney doesn't seem to instill the tough mindset and or prioritize defense as much as I would like. Grant and TJ before him seem to be coached to avoid fouling. Which is what u want your players to do in general, but it just seems to be an area where we struggle. Even Burton for all his strength and athleticism gets beat off the dribble way too much. Wilson is a very good defensive player and hoping Dji is too this year. Give those guys some minutes.

 

[spiderman]

guess I just don't think Sherod is as bad a defender as you guys think.
I think his assist to turnover ratio, his rebounding, and his shooting more than offsets the defensive differential of the alternatives.

 

[SpiderTrap]

I think we are getting to caught up in a traditional 2 guard position. That doesn't really exist in Mooney's offense. You just have a PG to bring the ball up but after that - it is 3 wings, and 1 center. I think Sherod, Cayo, and Burton fit those 3 wings. Are we worse on defense with them - maybe. But if defense is the priority - then Goose gets the start and we all know that is not happening.
I also don't think we need 2 ball handlers all the time. Gilyard can handle those duties and every so often I think Burton or Sherod can bring the ball up to give him a rest. Not a lot of course, but here and there, I don't see an issue.
But my biggest hunch is the fact that I can't remember the last time Mooney played a younger player over an upperclassmen. SO if Sherod is able and close to his old form (lets say 85% or better of what he used to be) - then I don't see him playing Wilson or DJI ahead of him. I even think if we didn't have Sherod this year - you might be looking at Goose starting instead of them.

 

[spiderman]

if Nick is at 85% I'll likely change my mind. but he came back 100% from this injury before. he didn't drop off at all. shot a little worse from 2 but insane from 3 and rebounded at an all time clip. I hope and expect him 100% but we'll see.

as for Mooney playing seniors, I think he plays the guys who he thinks will play the best for him. I'm not surprised if it's often the 22 year old who's been here a few years, not the young guy. but he's played young guys when they're the best option. I can't think of many young guys that looking back I feel should have played a ton more earlier.

 

[SpiderTrap]

We generally don't have young guys ready to go from day 1, and when and if we do - that usually means we are not very good. But he also doesn't do a good job planning for the future. So while yes - Sherod might be the better player this year and that means less minutes for Wilson and/or DJI - you can't simply relegate them to the bench and not play them at all or only get them in the game for mop up duty. You play for now, but you also have to have an eye on the future, so you got to get those guys some minutes this year to prep for next year so they will be ready. Otherwise - we are doomed back into our cycle of waiting every 3-4 years for a bunch of juniors/seniors until we have a good team again. Not to mention - in the age of the transfer portal, much easier for guys to now leave if you don't play them even though you plan is play them a lot next season. They might just leave and go elsewhere cause that trust is now gone.

 

[spiderman]

this is such a weird year with the "super seniors". I have no idea how you can get relevant playing time to enough guys with a 15 man roster.
end of the day, you have to go through preseason and determine your top 10 or so. it can change as the season progresses, but you can't just give out time with this many kids and a 40 minute game. you've got to play to win every game. planning for the future sounds great but we've got a loud fan base complaining about 10 years without dancing. coach has to assume there might not be a "next year" if he doesn't win.

 

[spider23]

guess I just don't think Sherod is as bad a defender as you guys think.
I think his assist to turnover ratio, his rebounding, and his shooting more than offsets the defensive differential of the alternatives.

I think Sherod is a very savvy defender, and very good for his limitations, just not at the 2 spot. He is better suited to guard a forward. If you were to put him heavy minutes at the two, with the lack of rim protectors, and some other deficiencies - it becomes problematic. And yes I do agree his shooting offsets a lot, BUT there is a lot less to offset if he is guarding a forward instead of a guard.

 

[SpiderDad75]

I don’t think Nick is a bad defender…but been around high level 🏀 for a while and in this day and age of basketball you are what you can guard and I don’t think he can guard consistently at that level. But you guys have seen him more than I. In terms of having 2 ball handlers on the court, you have Gilly and Zay but Dji was recruited to Wake as a PG and primarily everywhere else as well. I’m confident he could handle those duties if needed. One thing Nick will be able to do is spread the court bc if his shot. Something I think we missed last season. If you add Connor in the mix 🤞🏼 that’s another really good shooter. (The day I was there he didn’t work out with guys but I watched him hit about 12-13 3s in a row. 🔥 I don’t know about y’all but I’m super excited for the season. As a dad of a player it seems like forever since watching my son and I’m really anxious 😀. He’s been working really hard and I’ve had to make him a take a break since he’s home until Aug 20ish. 🕷🏀

 

[spiderman]

He is better suited to guard a forward.

totally agree. perfect world he's a 3. but our roster isn't set up to fit him there. so either he's just not playing very much as a backup 3, or he's playing out of position as a 2. question is what makes us better as a team? that's something Mooney will have to figure out.

 

[RichmondNative]

Basically it is the same story as last year where the 3 was thought to be a shared spot between Tyler and Nick. Now suddenly folks think that Nick with 2 surgically repaired knees can suddenly play the 2 spot, since Blake graduated and left. Depending on the matchup that can easily be a disaster. So CM is going to have to make adjustments, something I have never seen him do in the 8 years I have attended games at Robins.

 

[spider23]

Native, I was trying to stay positive , but you brought it up. IF all the guys are healthy we have a ton of guys that seem to be good enough to get minutes. I don't get the warm fuzzies about Mooney's ability to optimally manage the situation, and utilize the pieces. Unfortunately, attrition due to injury has been a given lately, but I am hoping that we get to see Mooney in action with all players available. Between Connor and Nick's injury history, we will be lucky to have one fully healthy and available for most games.

 

[Eight Legger]

23 nailed it. Nick does some things very well as a defender, but not at the 2. We need guys at the 1 and 2 who can stay with their men so that the rest of our defense doesn't have to play catch-up. Nick is better on the post defensively, where he can use his body to distract shots. If he has to chase guys around the perimeter, we are in trouble.

 

[MrTbone]

There will be a massive temptation to play nick at 2 to capitalize on his three point shooting. It will be a coaching challenge to recognize if the offensive upside offsets the defensive downside which I think would be appreciable.

Hopefully that analytics guy has been replaced to give the staff some guidance on the net effect of their decisions.

 

[spiderman]

I'm starting Nathan, Nick and Tyler until I see someone better than Nick. I'd play Blake at the 2 if he came back but he's gone. maybe Dji or Isaiah or Goose or a freshman has improved so much that they bump Nick, but until I see it ...

if it makes us feel better to call Tyler the 2 and Nick the 3 defensively, that's fine. Tyler can still crash the boards. he's probably going to be a 2 at the next level anyway.

 

[MountainSpider]

If Nick is healthy enough to warrant a lot of playing time, he should be able to get enough minutes coming in whenever either Cayo or Burton comes out to not need much time at the 2. Based on last years numbers, there is about 20 minutes of playing time for him as a backup for those two. 10 minutes of Sherod/Burton. 10 minutes of Sherod/Cayo and 20 minutes of Burton/Cayo

 

[spiderman]

If Nick is healthy enough to warrant a lot of playing time, he should be able to get enough minutes coming in whenever either Cayo or Burton comes out to not need much time at the 2. Based on last years numbers, there is about 20 minutes of playing time for him as a backup for those two. 10 minutes of Sherod/Burton. 10 minutes of Sherod/Cayo and 20 minutes of Burton/Cayo

that's certainly an option if you aren't giving Sal any time.

 

[PhillySpider]

I just don't think we can excel with Nick at the 2. In addition to very real defensive problems with that lineup, that group lacks a secondary ball handler and Nick offers virtually no play making/creativity either. Not sure we get a ton of looks for Nick if he's the two because we have virtually no one that can drive and cause help and rotations etc. So Nick at the two is more than just a defensive problem - - - its a fit problem.

The defensive problem alone though makes that a tough sell to me. That proposed 5 has no above avg. on ball defenders (even Jake is barely average on the ball) and several well below avg. on ball defenders (including Nick who is a huge step down from Blake on the ball). We have some guys who are bball smart and savvy and can play decent off the ball defense, but we need to have some folks who can keep their man in front of them without a lot of help. We may not be very good on defense next year at all - - with or without Nick.

 

[spiderman]

Not sure we get a ton of looks for Nick if he's the two because we have virtually no one that can drive and cause help and rotations etc. So Nick at the two is more than just a defensive problem - - - its a fit problem.

agreed he'd be a bad fit in a dribble drive offense. we don't do that. we're going to pass to the high post, run through, or dribble handoff and roll, etc.
eventually Nathan will drive ... possibly kick of help comes. or Grant goes to work.

Blake could handle but he wasn't creating for anyone.

 

[GKiller]

watch for Sherod to also get some time behind Golden at the 5. Offensively he’s a fit shooting & passing at high post. Defensively we’d go “small” but that could be good & we wouldn’t be that small anyway. Sherod can guard a big in spot minutes too. I said this last year about Sherod playing some 5 pre injury. It would be smart & I believe Mooney is onboard we’ll see.