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Random Thoughts Thread

SpiderK said:
I really hope someone is working very hard on Nate and AJ. Maybe Queally could send them to a “big man’s camp” in the off season.
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Mr AJ is test for Coach. Can he coach the pivot ? So he has player pivot he likes with some skill I think , what he does with this player after 1 year of this is what you do for me work to play 5minutes a game for help pivot rest.
Now we all see. But if I am Coach the Kwezi choice still to embarrass for many reasons. Time for Mr AJ to help Coach to shut my mouth about the pivot. I am hoping.
 
Spider2020 said:
I’d prefer Verbinskis (and the new guy) be productive for three years and then have options for their last year, rather than ride the pine here for four years.
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LOL! So true, me worried about him transferring when we don't even know if he will ever be a productive A10 player.
 
coachfezz said:
Mr AJ is test for Coach. Can he coach the pivot ? So he has player pivot he likes with some skill I think , what he does with this player after 1 year of this is what you do for me work to play 5minutes a game for help pivot rest.

SO I think we will have a pivot from FIBA next . Easy to fit the place. I thikn is good strategy fro Coach. But Golden is golden player and is American . This as recruiting is golden and Coach and staff much to get the credit . I think it IS time to pivot quiet for me. Lets look forward, Lets kick the ass when everyone thinks we will not.
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I find interesting that Mooney in the JOC article on one hand states the 2017 OCC schedule was too hard (maybe lessening how bad 2-10 record was?) and also gives himself some praise for scheduling 3 P5/6 schools (when in reality wasn't that JW's doing?)
 
Duke defense last season ranked #9 in Kenpom. Best since 2011. Duke's defensive fingerprint listed as "some zone." Always was "mostly man" before last year. Surprised by ranking but I guess shouldn't be since it's Coach K.

Kenpom's Defensive fingerprint definitions ....
Mostly man: The team probably plays man defense on the vast majority of its possessions.
Some zone: It’s likely that this team plays a significant number of possessions in a zone defense.

Coach K had star power frosh (one and done) who weren't recruited to play defense. I think it takes more time to improve defensively as frosh than on the offensive side. Maybe hide that deficiency by help out zone D. Less foul issues for these players to keep them on the court.

Of course Mooney is no Coach K but of the big 3 back for UR, 2 aren't good on defense and their movement on the court suggest they won't get significantly better. In man defense JJ as a 2 would have players go by him and as a 3 get posted up. So Woj might be the 5th starter but can he play D at all? Bottom line is that Mooney's switching man or whatever you want to call it last season was as Charles would say .... terrible! Also your adding plenty of new pieces to learn Mooney's elaborate defense that appear to be counted on to play game one.
 
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SouthJerseySpiderFan said:
Duke defense last season ranked #9 in Kenpom. Best since 2011. Duke's defensive fingerprint listed as "some zone." Always was "mostly man" before last year. Surprised by ranking but I guess shouldn't be since it's Coach K.

Kenpom's Defensive fingerprint definitions ....
Mostly man: The team probably plays man defense on the vast majority of its possessions.
Some zone: It’s likely that this team plays a significant number of possessions in a zone defense.

Coach K had star power frosh (one and done) who weren't recruited to play defense. I think it takes more time to improve defensively as frosh than on the offensive side. Maybe hide that deficiency by help out zone D. Less foul issues for these players to keep them on the court.

Of course Mooney is no Coach K but of the big 3 back for UR, 2 aren't good on defense and their movement on the court suggest they won't get significantly better. In man defense JJ as a 2 would have players go by him and as a 3 get posted up. So Woj might be the 5th starter but can he play D at all? Bottom line is that Mooney's switching man or whatever you want to call it last season was as Charles would say .... terrible! Also your adding plenty of new pieces to learn Mooney's elaborate defense that appear to be counted on to play game one.
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All of this. This board is so focused on what this team will look like offensively this year. Largely ignored is how bad we have been defensively the past 2 years, how we lost our two best defenders, and how difficult it is for new players to quickly pick up our defense.

I think we are going to be fine scoring the ball this year. Sherod, Grant, and Gilyard are going to put up some points. Can we stop anyone though, that is the million dollar question that will determine this season and ultimately whether Mooney is coaching us beyond it.
 
if we don't have strong individual defensive players, then we won't be a strong defensive team as a unit whether we play man, zone, or matchup.

those that think zone is some magic wand, it's not. it can hide defensive weaknesses at the high school level. not here. you'll get lit up from 3 if you can't recover from help position.

the team had more preseason work than ever this year due to rule changes. I hope they're more advanced in our base defense than a team with many new faces normally would be.

speaking of Duke, did you guys stay up last night? holy crap! probably the most physically gifted Duke team ever. those freshmen are incredible. Zion is one of a kind.
 
A future opponent, Hampton Pirates, appeared to have 58 rebounds last night while their opponent had 58 points. Should be interesting to see how they do against their next opponent...
 
SMan, I guess we just have opposite thinking in regards what a zone could do for Mooney's team. And like you stated, Duke once again has gifted frosh this season. Physically athletic I believe though more thought of in an offensive way. So my question to you is, what reason do you think Coach K after forever using a tight man defense switched suddenly last season to a zone?

 
really good article about it below. he tried the zone to hide his 2 poor defensive big men.

coaching in youth ball (which is as far as I got - so far!), nothing is more effective than a well played active zone. at the college level, you have to be incredibly athletic and have incredible length to play a zone right. there's a lot of ground to cover. Duke had both. they should have been dominant defensively in either man or zone. but they played their 2 bigs together which sounds great, but neither could defend the perimeter and Carter couldn't protect the rim.

we're not incredibly quick. we're not incredibly long. we'll give up open 3's all night. in my opinion.

I was struggling to keep my eyes open last night, but I didn't notice Duke playing any zone. not sure though.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/26/17163732/duke-zone-marvin-bagley-wendell-carter
 
spiderman said:
if we don't have strong individual defensive players, then we won't be a strong defensive team as a unit whether we play man, zone, or matchup.

those that think zone is some magic wand, it's not. it can hide defensive weaknesses at the high school level. not here. you'll get lit up from 3 if you can't recover from help position.

the team had more preseason work than ever this year due to rule changes. I hope they're more advanced in our base defense than a team with many new faces normally would be.

speaking of Duke, did you guys stay up last night? holy crap! probably the most physically gifted Duke team ever. those freshmen are incredible. Zion is one of a kind.
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Nope. Zion IS Lebron.
 
spiderman said:
really good article about it below. he tried the zone to hide his 2 poor defensive big men.
we're not incredibly quick. we're not incredibly long. we'll give up open 3's all night. in my opinion.

https://www.theringer.com/2018/3/26/17163732/duke-zone-marvin-bagley-wendell-carter
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Good article there SMan. I think it more or less says what I stated in why Coach K did it. And of course UR isn't long and lanky aka Syracuse but I thought as bad as Mooney's defense was last year, along with unproven newbies coming aboard, give it a try.
 
97spiderfan said:
Can we stop anyone though, that is the million dollar question that will determine this season and ultimately whether Mooney is coaching us beyond it.
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Whether we're willing to pay a million dollars for someone to not coach is also a million dol.......um...
 
Ulla1 said:
Nope. Zion IS Lebron.
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Lebron plus 30 pounds and with an extra 5" in his hops. Zion can pass, but he's not Lebron level there. not sure he's that kind of shooter or ball handler either, though looked good this game.
maybe a taller young Charles Barkley is a better comp ... again with even more hops.
 
spiderman said:
Lebron plus 30 pounds and with an extra 5" in his hops. Zion can pass, but he's not Lebron level there. not sure he's that kind of shooter or ball handler either, though looked good this game.
maybe a taller young Charles Barkley is a better comp ... again with even more hops.
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They were mentioning that ZW would possibly be back up PG when Trey Jones goes out. That is like saying Dick Butkus is the backup QB. Obviously he can dribble also and handle pressure.
 
If Mooney went to a zone defense, I think we can agree more opportunities for opponents to shoot from beyond the 3PT line. Mooney's team last season was the worst at defending them since he arrived at UR. Not a good combination it would appear. And coaches these days realize the value of taking additional 3PTA over shooting jumpers inside the line.

The zone does help a team that lacks depth avoid starters that need to play most of the game from getting in foul trouble. All the time you see a coach go to a zone to try to avoid a key performer from picking up an additional foul. The Spiders also last year were like a swinging door the way opponents went right by them in getting to the basket with Mooney's defense. And arguably speaking UR's best two man up defenders are gone.

Another reason for Mooney going to a zone is improvement with defensive rebounding. Not so much as the Spiders box out better to prevent offensive rebounds. The fact is looking at the 351 D1 team stats, offenses that ranked high in 3PTA usually don't get as many offensive rebounds as those that go inside more on offense.

Let's look at some numbers. On the left are Kenpom team offensive rebounding rankings for 2017-18. And on the right are the Kenpom rankings for top 50 teams that shot plenty of 3PTA last season.

#241 Savan St (1)
#286 Belmont (2)
#216 Citadel (3)
#296 Wash St (4)
#335 Elon (5)
#324 Davidson (6)
#208 Quinnipac (7)
#331 Coppin St (8)
#319 Pitt (9)
#341 Mt St Mary (10)
#255 New Mex (11)
#140 Nova (12)
#212 Rice (13)
#238 Furman (14)
#325 Marist (15)
#350 Fordham (16)
.#95 Cent Mich (17)
#217 Akron (18)
#334 Princeton (19)
#337 UMKC (20)
#227 USC Up (21)
#177 Vanderbilt (22)
#257 Illinois St (23)
#281 Utah St (24)
#303 Utah (25)
#121Missouri (26)
#266 Colgate (27)
.#35 UNC Greens (28)
#326 Marshall (29)
#283 Northeastern (30)
#290 Wofford (31)
#271 Fort Wayne (32)
#231 Troy (33)
#134 Canisuis (34)
#330 San Diego (35)
#345 Wyoming (36)
#327 Creighton (37)
#247 UTSA (38)
#291 North Florida (39)
#289 Presbyterian (40)
#302 Fairfield (41)
#211 Marquette (42)
#287Louisa Monroe (43)
#260 UMBC (44)
#320 N Dakota St (45)
#229 Miami Ohio (46)
#267 S Alabama (47)
#277 Dayton (48)
#297 American (49)
#309 S Dakota St (50)

As shown plenty of teams with brutal, I mean BRUTAL numbers when it comes to offensive rebounding along the lines of Spider teams all too often. Easy to see a pattern exists. Safe to say I believe from the stats there is a correlation between teams that try lots of 3PTA who also are poor at offensive rebounding. So since UR was poor at defense last season, along with perennially subpar at defensive rebounding, Mooney trying a zone might suggest his team would automatically improve at defensive rebounding as a sidebar.

I see 4 UR opponents on that list that fit the bill that a zone would help on the boards. More importantly is other opponents that may not try many 3PTA but may score inside more which hurt the Spiders last season. Why not force them to beat you from deep? Unfortunately Mooney being not comfortable going zone will no doubt stick with his standard b-ball philosophy regarding defense. Crossing my fingers the new players pick it up fast and team gels defensively as an unit. Though I wouldn't bet on it. Go Spiders!
 
SouthJerseySpiderFan said:
If Mooney went to a zone defense, I think we can agree more opportunities for opponents to shoot from beyond the 3PT line. Mooney's team last season was the worst at defending them since he arrived at UR. Not a good combination it would appear. And coaches these days realize the value of taking additional 3PTA over shooting jumpers inside the line.

The zone does help a team that lacks depth avoid starters that need to play most of the game from getting in foul trouble. All the time you see a coach go to a zone to try to avoid a key performer from picking up an additional foul. The Spiders also last year were like a swinging door the way opponents went right by them in getting to the basket with Mooney's defense. And arguably speaking UR's best two man up defenders are gone.

Another reason for Mooney going to a zone is improvement with defensive rebounding. Not so much as the Spiders box out better to prevent offensive rebounds. The fact is looking at the 351 D1 team stats, offenses that ranked high in 3PTA usually don't get as many offensive rebounds as those that go inside more on offense.

Let's look at some numbers. On the left are Kenpom team offensive rebounding rankings for 2017-18. And on the right are the Kenpom rankings for top 50 teams that shot plenty of 3PTA last season.

#241 Savan St (1)
#286 Belmont (2)
#216 Citadel (3)
#296 Wash St (4)
#335 Elon (5)
#324 Davidson (6)
#208 Quinnipac (7)
#331 Coppin St (8)
#319 Pitt (9)
#341 Mt St Mary (10)
#255 New Mex (11)
#140 Nova (12)
#212 Rice (13)
#238 Furman (14)
#325 Marist (15)
#350 Fordham (16)
.#95 Cent Mich (17)
#217 Akron (18)
#334 Princeton (19)
#337 UMKC (20)
#227 USC Up (21)
#177 Vanderbilt (22)
#257 Illinois St (23)
#281 Utah St (24)
#303 Utah (25)
#121Missouri (26)
#266 Colgate (27)
.#35 UNC Greens (28)
#326 Marshall (29)
#283 Northeastern (30)
#290 Wofford (31)
#271 Fort Wayne (32)
#231 Troy (33)
#134 Canisuis (34)
#330 San Diego (35)
#345 Wyoming (36)
#327 Creighton (37)
#247 UTSA (38)
#291 North Florida (39)
#289 Presbyterian (40)
#302 Fairfield (41)
#211 Marquette (42)
#287Louisa Monroe (43)
#260 UMBC (44)
#320 N Dakota St (45)
#229 Miami Ohio (46)
#267 S Alabama (47)
#277 Dayton (48)
#297 American (49)
#309 S Dakota St (50)

As shown plenty of teams with brutal, I mean BRUTAL numbers when it comes to offensive rebounding along the lines of Spider teams all too often. Easy to see a pattern exists. Safe to say I believe from the stats there is a correlation between teams that try lots of 3PTA who also are poor at offensive rebounding. So since UR was poor at defense last season, along with perennially subpar at defensive rebounding, Mooney trying a zone might suggest his team would automatically improve at defensive rebounding as a sidebar.

I see 4 UR opponents on that list that fit the bill that a zone would help on the boards. More importantly is other opponents that may not try many 3PTA but may score inside more which hurt the Spiders last season. Why not force them to beat you from deep? Unfortunately Mooney being not comfortable going zone will no doubt stick with his standard b-ball philosophy regarding defense. Crossing my fingers the new players pick it up fast and team gels defensively as an unit. Though I wouldn't bet on it. Go Spiders!
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A) Mooney runs a zone defense. It’s a matchup zone, and in simplified terms, it’s essentially switching on all ball screens and switching on runners through the zone. I personally love it (my first ever post was about it). However to be fair, it’s far more complicated and has only worked well with experienced players. This has been a point of major criticism of Mooney as many believe he should adjust his complicated zone to the players he has, instead of forcing the zone on them.

B) Zones are notoriously bad for rebounding. I hope you take my word on it, but feel free to research more. The best way I can describe it is in a man defense you know who you’re supposed to box out. In a zone, it’s harder to find who to box out, which leads to more offensive rebounds.
 
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A) N19, I guess didn't make clear meant a traditional zone ...... 2-3, 2-1-2, etc. etc. etc.

B) Lol. No research necessary, but for your knowledge I knew that many years before my post.
 
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Va Tech last year switched, I believe, to basically our defense. it was a game changer for them. it's more effective than man or zone when run right by the right guys. I'm a big fan of the defense ... just not our version of it last year.
man and straight zones are both very easy to attack.
 
Wasn't looking to pile on Mooney (beyond caring now) with my above "short story" post so deleted something like this at the end of it before hitting Post Reply. Though Mooney appears comfortable in thinking his job is safe as UR coach without showing substantial progress this year. Sometimes drastic issues need drastic changes.

Didn't watch the Longwood game and not the best opponent to tell if Mooney's patented defense has improved from last season? We shall see or maybe the level of player talent on this year's team make the point of drastic change moot?
 
nathanw19 said:
A) Mooney runs a zone defense. It’s a matchup zone, and in simplified terms, it’s essentially switching on all ball screens and switching on runners through the zone. I personally love it (my first ever post was about it). However to be fair, it’s far more complicated and has only worked well with experienced players. This has been a point of major criticism of Mooney as many believe he should adjust his complicated zone to the players he has, instead of forcing the zone on them.

B) Zones are notoriously bad for rebounding. I hope you take my word on it, but feel free to research more. The best way I can describe it is in a man defense you know who you’re supposed to box out. In a zone, it’s harder to find who to box out, which leads to more offensive rebounds.
Click to expand...

Traditional zones are bad for rebounding. Match-up zones, where you should be on a man, should not be confusing on whom to box out. We just don't actually do it. When a shot goes up, we look at the rim, not for a person to box out. Always have.
 
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There was a NCAA game last night where 2 players scored 33 of their team's 43 first half points. They also scored 32 points of their team's 43 second half points. Consistency for sure with their coach going right back to the well.

Wondering though why the opponent coach didn't make any adjustment defending them? Maybe he did but these 2 star players come from the 4th ranked team in the 26th ranked conference in the country. Guess that coach had no chance at stopping that talent.
 
Anyone else notice there hasn’t been a “team” photo at the top of the roster page this year? I don’t know why but I have found that odd.
 
SouthJerseySpiderFan said:
There was a NCAA game last night where 2 players scored 33 of their team's 43 first half points. They also scored 32 points of their team's 43 second half points. Consistency for sure with their coach going right back to the well.

Wondering though why the opponent coach didn't make any adjustment defending them? Maybe he did but these 2 star players come from the 4th ranked team in the 26th ranked conference in the country. Guess that coach had no chance at stopping that talent.
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That coach of the 263 ranked team did put the tired 6’10” 260lb kid on the 5’11” guard that blew by him for 10 layups and 38 points.
 
Play Sal more! His movements offensively on court tell me he can be a player. Live with the defense breakdowns Mooney. The team as a whole has been poor on defense. The kid has some wingspan and can handle the ball adequately.

JJ got 27 minutes and I would feel comfortable giving some of those to Sal. Against better coached teams UR needs to get bigger. Glass half-full wanting Sal to progress like Cayo but sometime this year and not next season.
 
Here’s a random thought:

It’s always fun to read the board after a win and loss. After a win, it’s always asking things like whether we have “turned things around” and after a loss it’s always “Mooney should be fired now”

What I implore everyone is to not be prisoners of the moment. Look at the bigger picture, don’t look at games in a vacuum and say a win against a (underachieving) Wake Forest teams means everything is okay and don’t say a loss against Hampton means the world is coming to an end.

The reason I am in the belief that Mooney should be fired at the end of the season is because I’ve seen both empirically and analytically (thanks Fan2011) that we have been declining over years and the system Mooney implements just doesn’t work in today’s day and age of basketball. I really hope that the powers at be don’t base their decision on Mooney on emotion. Look at the facts, history, and what transpires before us. If we some how pull off 25 straight wins and win the A10 tournament (extreme as an example but the point is the same) I will happily change my position.

I’m not inherently against Mooney. I just recognize that what he’s been doing just hasn’t been good enough. The way I see it, is this schedule we have both OOC and in conference will be good enough for around 15-16 wins. This will continue the “we’ve improved and things will get better mindset” that we have been on for 7 years now. It’s frustrsting because we will beat enough teams like IUPUI, St Francis, and a really bad Wake Forest team, to give the impression that things are getting better. I will never root against Richmond, but I also know that the only real way for us to get the change we need is for us to to have another bad season so even the powers at be can’t justify keeping Mooney.

Also as another random thought.

If anyone listened to Mooney’s press conference after yesterday’s game, he told a student reporter that the question they asked was a great question and then Mooney immediately looked over at JOC and said “see John”. I can only assume that this was in reference to John’s question to Mooney about what he wants to say to the fans after the Hampton loss. This idea that Mooney can’t take any criticism, answer tough questions, or want to confront the reality that what he’s been doing is not good enough, is also frustrating.
 
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spiderstudent17 said:
Also as another random thought.

If anyone listened to Mooney’s press conference after yesterday’s game, he told a student reporter that the question they asked was a great question and then Mooney immediately looked over at JOC and said “see John”. I can only assume that this was in reference to John’s question to Mooney about what he wants to say to the fans after the Hampton loss. This idea that Mooney can’t take any criticism, answer tough questions, or want to confront the reality that what he’s been doing is not good enough, is also frustrating.
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I referenced this on the other thread. Mooney is dug in. It's a pathetic look, really.

I hope folks will consider sending JOC a note of support.
 
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17, you again make some very good points. I was pro Mooney for many years. But NO Webspinner, I was not clamoring to extend him 10 years. In fact, I had a weird gut feeling after our s16 run that Mooney would slide. I kind of felt that the 5 year stepping stone plan was the model we would need to follow to be successful, unless we could luck into a Mark Few, or Gregg Marshall (he may have been available?) type - and I didn't think Mooney was that. So time to move on. I supported him for years after, but always feeling like we could be better. Many a season I felt like we had a decent roster, but 1-3 players from being really legit - which as Trap and 97 point out year after year.

JOC is not a hard hitting shock journalist. He asks one difficult question from time to time, and the thin skinned Mooney gets pissed. I watched that interview, yes Mooney is still mad about that. Wish JOC had rode him hard the last 6 years, it does seem to be motivating him finally.
 
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Just read JOC article this morning. He doesn’t even know who we have played. He said we had lost to Longwood and Radford at home.
 
SpiderK said:
Just read JOC article this morning. He doesn’t even know who we have played. He said we had lost to Longwood and Radford at home.
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Whatever can be said about JOC's ability as a writer, the way Mooney treated him was uncalled for completely no matter what. Even if JOC made mistake after mistake in his articles, that ONE question he asked Mooney was so ON POINT. Mooney can't get that GREAT question out of head it appears by his putdown of JOC in the post game video.
 
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