Wow, okay. So, we should just blow out every team we play? LOL. I would say keep things real, but real left this message board a long time ago.
Probably the worst of the year
- Thread starter Gospiders06
- Start date
I didn't say blowout. I said not close, meaning we wouldn't have to sweat it out in the end.
A half decent coach is worth ~5-10 points as compared to Mooney.
A pretty good coach is worth ~10-12 points as compared to Mooney
A lot of games would be won that we lost if we added those margins in our favor. And we would have danced many more times.
VT, You seem to have no basis in reality on how much Mooney has cost our program.
Are you saying we should go 0-4 in all those games?
Are you saying we should go 0-4 in all those games?
I like hanging with Spiders and Spider fans.
Nope. Definitely not. But, if every coach who ever lost a game they should win gets fired, most teams would go through 5+ coaches a year. You think we would automatically do much better with a different coach. I don't. I think we have the right coach. I think 2020 and 2022 were fantastic seasons, and I think our program is in great shape. Go back before 2020 all.you want, but I am looking at more recent years as being more relevant. Most people would agree with that.
To answer your last question more directly, no, we shouldn't ditch the players, we should bench the coach. A double technical each game on the coach would be ideal, preferably early on in the game. The 4 points that may cost us to get him out of the arena is well worth it and can easily be made up by the players sheer ability and determination without incurring the softening the coach inevitably casts on them.
then I misunderstood. thought you were saying accept your role. I don't want anyone accepting their role, and any D1 athlete coming off the bench worth his salt shouldn't. you fight for more. that makes everyone better.
Bad end of game Managment. Y’all said keep shooting TB. We give Tyler the ball with 30 seconds and let him go to work. That’s bad coaching there…
Dude, no one called for firing him after one game. How many times has he blown games? Let's see 17 or 18 seasons (I don't even know cause we're so stuck in groundhog day, I can't remember) × 5 or 6 maybe more blown games per year = 85 minimum. I think I can make a determination on that.
we're all frustrated but this is nonsense.
Mooney put the team together so it all falls to him, but the players we all support are the ones on the floor who have to perform. they're not performing. 293rd in shooting percentage. same offense. we've got to play better.
What? K mentioned how Tyler was the main scorer and I said he was the main shooter. I’m supporting the spiders but I was a realist and told you guys this team was going to struggle because they lost 4 1000 pt scorers. But you guys tried to convince me this team was going to not be a rebuild. And it just didn’t make sense to me. and here we are…
Well, I mean, you kind of have to accept your role sometimes. I think team chemistry is better if you do, and I always feel that is important. I don't want my bench guys moping around being frustrated. You can of course try to get better and all that, but, know who you are. Don't have unrealistic pre season expectations. Is that fair to say?
We lost 4 1k scorers and every assistant coach, so I didn’t expect them to be great this year.. I don’t put that blame on mooney personally but some would.
The problem I have is how much the team regressed in the last 2 games. I thought lessons were being learned and the team identity was being established with the win versus Temple. But then there was a complete dismantling versus Toledo. One could say that Toledo is a quality team and that it was a road test for the Spiders to explain the loss away. However, there was another melt down versus W&M in the first half especially and then of course the classic inability to close out a game issue. The reason for that loss is simple - in the last minute of the game W&M wanted it more. That is a big problem and it starts at the top.
Hopefully there is a renewed focus and the home crowd will be the tonic the Spiders need to beat possibly 2nd best OOC opponent on the schedule (58 Net ranking currently). However, I am worried that the excuses are already ready to go - exam week underway and is very hard for the players to focus on both academics and basketball.
Go Spiders!
2 2k and 2 1k to be more specific, and I was guilty of thinking we could just get things running smoothly from game 1. I was wrong thinking that. I can see now it takes time with all these new pieces, especially when you factor what Jacob and Grant did for us. Then, we lose Grace and it is that much more noticeable what our offense was missing. I still like this team a lot and think we will figure it out and start rolling.
I think this team has a lot talent too. They will win some games and put together a bit of a win streak at some point. However, it will very likely be too little. November Games Matter! We need a coach who knows what the hell he's doing with the players he has from the beginning. That's the definition of coaching. You can't take until December or until A10 play or until the season is nearly over to figure it out.
I think we just have different definitions of frustrated. I'm certainly not saying it's ok to mope. you can be frustrated and not mope.
some players are clearly ahead of others. I wouldn't expect Crabtree to be frustrated that he's not playing ahead of Tyler. but I think we still need to tinker with the guard rotation. based on our record, what we're doing isn't working.
They did A LOT. everybody knew that. But everybody also thought Quinn would produce at the same level, thought Matt and goose would produce a lot more, and thought Tyler would be able to win us every game. And that’s just not the case. There’s one proven player on this roster and the rest needed to prove it. Players 2-15 were not proven and that made people think this roster was deeper, but just because there’s more people that can play doesn’t mean depth… big difference.
In this case, I am changing my Mooney off season grade from B- to D. I had reservations about Quinn, but ended up buying the hype after the interviews, and the smoke being blown. I do think Roche and Bigs are good pickups. But honestly, we were in games, and up in games that we just blew. And many of those we just dribbled and passed the ball on the exterior until the clock wound down. We saw that move so often over the last 18 years. As mentioned, if no peak KA or peak Gilly, no plan exists to finish these games.
What are you suggesting? I think we have tinkered. 5 of our guards are averaging 12+ minutes a game. I think we would be crazy to give up on Nelson this early if that's what you're suggesting. We are basically talking just one made shot in 4 these games. I'm just not ready to make a bunch of changes and try bunch of new things because of that. I would feel differently if we were getting blown out and didn't show any signs of life at all out there. But, we have shown what we can do at times. We have gone on huge runs with the guys we are playing. I think we need to play our main guys and let them get through this. It will make them better and the team better. The close losses will turn into wins. But, just my opinion, and time will tell.
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I'm certainly not giving up on Nelson. but he can be developed without playing him 32 mpg. what team plays their freshman PG 32 mpg? has he earned the "main guy" title? maybe he has in practice. I don't know. maybe we're ok playing through his ups and downs. but then we shouldn't be shocked that we're losing some games.
He didn’t come ready to play because one year later he’s still not ready to play.
What I'm saying is that when you blow late-game leads in every loss but one, it's worth asking why. I didn't expect this team to start 7-1, but after watching these 8 games, it's evident that we really should have. How you lose close games matter. Had we been playing catch-up all the time and ended up losing by 3, that's one thing. But to blow a 5-point OT lead at Charleston with a minute left, a 3-point lead against Wichita at home late, a 5-point lead late at W&M, a 4- or 5-point lead late against Syracuse... that's a trend. All those games were right there, begging us to win them, and we lost them all. That's a real problem.
Obviously no team is going to win every close game, but when you lose close games by consistently blowing late leads, it's a lot different from trailing by 10 the whole game and making a couple threes at the end to lose by 4. What's the solution? I don't know, but I'm also not paid $1.3 million a year to win basketball games. It seems to me the coach should be able to figure something out.
It is convenient to only look at one coach and mention blown games. Every coach has teams that lose leads. It's called basketball. It happens. You think it happens to us so dramatically because you follow us. The bottom line is if we keep things recent like we should, you and many on here think we could have done better than 24 - 7 in 2020 and an A-10 title with a win over Iowa in the dance in 2022 with a different coach. I definitely don't. One poster even said we would have been sweet 16 or elite 8 with a different coach last year. LOL. How am I supposed to debate something as crazy as that? So, sorry to not join the whine party on here, but, yes, I am very happy with our coach and our program. And like 2020 and like last year, when I got ridiculed every day for staying positive with our team and coach, I will continue to believe in these guys and our coaches. A few blown leads and close losses won't change that.
Fair enough. I could see playing him less in games where he struggles, especially if his shot isn't falling and the penetration isn't there. Looks like we did that some the last 2 games, with Randolph playing more while Nelson dropped to 26 and 27 minutes. Before the last 2, he was averaging about 34 mpg.
I hear what you saying. What I was trying to say, is he is not ready to play this year because he sat for 2. Had we gotten him 5-10 minutes per game last year, I think he would be more ready to lead us this year. Two years of non real game competition is a long time.
Literally this is the coaches job to get the team ready to play on Game 1. In college, you are going to have significant turnover every single year cause players only play 4 years and now with the portal, turnover is even greater.
The reality is Mooney did a good job in the portal getting good talent what he has done a poor job of getting that talent ready to play in game 1. The good coaches are able to do that, the mediocre ones look like us.
Our turnover was clearly one of the larger ones in college basketball… game 1 they were ready weren’t they? Sorry “talent” didn’t pan out as except. We expected our transfers to be better, they were lower level coming up, that happens all over the place.
LOL...5-10 minutes last year? So, burn his redshirt, then go maybe 16-16 because you sit Jacob, one of the best players to ever play here, more than you should, as a result not be an attractive spot for our transfers, and maybe not get Trevor Smith. All just to give Nelson 5-10 minutes last year? And, this makes us better to you? Hilarious.
You have no interest in the solution
But, you forgot, we are supposed to win EVERY close game. Or, actually, some think we should be so good and so much better than everyone we play that we shouldn't even have close games. Don't you remember, we are clearly different than the other 350+ schools that lose games. It is okay for them to lose, but not us. We must never lose!!!!! 24-7? Doesn't matter. Fire the coach! A-10 tourney title 9 months ago? Who cares, fire the coach. Win over Iowa in the dance, getting our school talked about so positively during the tournament? Doesn't matter. 17 years ago? THAT matters. Any other coach would have done that and more the past 3 years. Who cares that very few do.
This only gets you up to 56%.
We are proud program with a rich history. We expect more.
Just that simple.
Yep. But luckily we are the only “15 Mooney Haters”.
Don't forget about our average computer ranking of 4th in the A10 early this year (pre W/M loss of course) that one poster used in support of the status quo!
Isn’t it up to Mooney to figure out solutions; not posters on a forum? We can debate on a forum, but Mooney loses debates on the basketball court. Sorry, on balance his strategies are not successful - especially at end of game.
