Patrick Beilein returns to Buffalo

[97spiderfan]

Bucknell played in the 2011, 2013, 2017 and 2018 NCAA tournaments. Bucknell played in the 2012, 2015 and 2016 NITs.

So, Bucknell has played in the NCAAs or the NIT every year since 2011. I'd say that's a pretty good program to compare ourselves to, wouldn't you?

Bucknell would not like being compared to our program though. But no. Bucknell is a Patriot League school in an autobid league. Patriot League programs do not commit near the resources that A-10 programs do. The fact that Bucknell has done so well this decade with their league affiliation/resource allocation is beyond commendable.

We are in the A-10. The schools we should be comparing ourselves with our league schools. That is who we have chosen to compete against. Have to think one of the reason's Hardt came here versus staying at Bucknell is to be able to be a school that competes at a higher level.

One can only wonder what has to go through his mind, when he compares what Bucknell has done this past 8 years and what we have done.

 

[Wood Hall]

One can only wonder what has to go through his mind, when he compares what Bucknell has done this past 8 years and what we have done.

Hopefully, he's thinking we need to get better. And that we need a new coach to accomplish that goal.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

Not sure if you guys mean directly from D-II or D-III, but each of Mason's Dave Paulsen and former GW coach Mike Lonergan cut their teeth at D-III (Williams and Catholic, respectively). But, each had a stop prior to A-10, if that is your point.

 

[SpiderTrap]

That is exactly my point. I have no problem with Beilein and think he is doing a good job working his way up the ranks, but taking him at this point in his career is a big reach for a school of our nature in a top 10 basketball league in the country. If we were still in the CAA or Patriot league, then its a different conversation. Every coach has come from somewhere, and you can always look back and say - wish we would have gotten him before everyone else. Tom Izzo coached HS for one season in Michigan, you don't think some schools are looking back and saying - why didn't we get him then? Or Roy Williams coached basketball and golf in HS for 5 years before entering college ranks - too bad UR didn't reach out to him after 3 years of HS coaching.

Here is a thought though - what is we win 15-16 games, which I think we will - and instead of firing Mooney, Hardt tells him he must shake up his staff. Similar to what happen down in Clemson with Brownwell - where they got rid of Winiecki. It seems to be working for them as they bounced back nicely the following year. What is Hardt asked Mooney to get rid of Jones and/or Jenkins - then I would be interested in bringing in Beilein as an assistant. Young guy who could possibly recruit - probably runs a similar system to his dad with a premium on shooting and passing, which is the same with Mooney. That could be interesting.

 

[Eight Legger]

Hardt is on record a week or two ago on 950 saying that he doesn't make demands like that of head coaches but that he lets them make their own decisions.

 

[GKiller]

Sure add Beilein as assistant. Then add Jeff Van Gundy and Nancy Lieberman too. Then Mooney can keep his job.

 

[97spiderfan]

Hardt is on record a week or two ago on 950 saying that he doesn't make demands like that of head coaches but that he lets them make their own decisions.

I don't think that is a bad policy. Head coaches should be able to assemble their own staff. Mooney's staff is deficient in a number of areas but Mooney is loyal to a fault.

In most cases though, if the head man hires lousy assistants, it is a reflection of the head coach and changing the assistants, amounts to changing some deck chairs on the Titantic. But if there was ever a deck chair that needed thrown overboard, Rob Jones would be it. That guy brings nothing to our program.

 

[SpiderTrap]

But if Hardt is in the position where he can't get rid of Mooney because our school doesn't want to pay the fee, which has been described numerous times over on here. Shouldn't he step in and tell him to get rid of an assistant, much cheaper to get rid of, and maybe hire some new assistants.

I agree - Mooney is in charge and the blame would lie with him. But when you can't get rid of the CEO, maybe replace the people below who do much of the work (ie recruiting) - and maybe this helps us win - which at the end of the day is all that matters.

 

[97spiderfan]

But if Hardt is in the position where he can't get rid of Mooney because our school doesn't want to pay the fee, which has been described numerous times over on here. Shouldn't he step in and tell him to get rid of an assistant, much cheaper to get rid of, and maybe hire some new assistants.

I agree - Mooney is in charge and the blame would lie with him. But when you can't get rid of the CEO, maybe replace the people below who do much of the work (ie recruiting) - and maybe this helps us win - which at the end of the day is all that matters.

Good question. It would be really unfortunate if we hired a new AD and then tied his hands with making the most consequential hiring decision an AD could make. That is not how an athletic department is supposed to run. I doubt Hardt will have a long tenure if that is the case.

 

[spiderman]

I don't get complaints about our current recruiting. I'm very happy with the classes the last 3 years, and Burton looks like a good get too.
firing someone for recruiting now is 4 years late.

 

[SpiderTrap]

No complaints about current recruiting? Our team is essentially 6 - maybe 7 deep right now, and you saw what happens when we experience an injury. The dropoff is too much from starters to bench - and that goes back to recruiting. Jones, Lewis, and Jenkins have all been assistants for over the past 3 years or longer - some of this rests on them in terms of recruiting.

I hope Hardt is not handcuffed - but look at our last 2 AD's, they left pretty quick - did they maybe see the writing on the wall? That at UR - 2 biggest decisions you can make are football coach and basketball coach and money was going to drive that decision over winning - so maybe a factor why they left? I know there were other reasons as well, but I wonder if this was just one of the reasons as well.

 

[97spiderfan]

Our class last year:

AJ Ford (transferred D-2)
Solly Stansbury (Quit team mid season)
Bryce Schneider (redshirted, only getting time in blow outs)
Tomas Verbinkus (redshirted, walk on are getting more PT than he does)
Cayo (starter)
Gilly (starter)

4 of the 6 (2/3) players in last years class are not A-10 level players and are not going to make an impact on our team. How can you say you are happy with last year's class. You can't have a 33% hit rate on a 6 member class and say that is a successful recruiting class.

 

[nathanw19]

Our class last year:

AJ Ford (transferred D-2)
Solly Stansbury (Quit team mid season)
Bryce Schneider (redshirted, only getting time in blow outs)
Tomas Verbinkus (redshirted, walk on are getting more PT than he does)
Cayo (starter)
Gilly (starter)

4 of the 6 (2/3) players in last years class are not A-10 level players and are not going to make an impact on our team. How can you say you are happy with last year's class. You can't have a 33% hit rate on a 6 member class and say that is a successful recruiting class.

I’ll take two starter level players from each class every year.

Yes I realize that hasn’t happened, but that is what happened with the class you pointed out.

 

[spiderman]

I'm happy with the improvement from Yates.
I love the 2021 class of Golden, Cayo, Sherod, Francis and Gilyard.
and I'm excited with what we've seen from Wojcik, Gustavson, Sal and Grace. I understand questions about Bryce and Tomas, but I'm not ruling them out yet. Bryce looked very active in his run. Tomas didn't look healthy. and even if they miss, that's a good batting average.
plus we get Burton next year.

so yeah, Trap. I don't understand the complaints about our recent recruiting. we've been building a really nice roster. we need them to grow old together.

and for crying out loud, this isn't about Mooney. everything doesn't have to be about Mooney. this is about the players on the roster. we have a roster that can be really good next year. I'm not giving up on this season either.

 

[I-M-UR]

Easy on the future rapist claim - that is not even close to the truth. I agree - he was bringing in guys that are not your "typical" UR recruits. But like I said - we complain on here all the time about recruiting and Wainwright is the only guy to get us near a top 100 recruit.

In terms of coaching - his philosophy was easy. Play hard nose man-to-man defense, and on offense - ride your best player as far as he will take you. At UNCW - he rode Blizzard, and then here at UR he was able to ride Skrocki his senior year, with help from Dobbins. Not a terrible philosophy as long as you get that really good recruit every 2-3 years.

Our philosophy now has been - recruit under the radar guys and hope they develop. And it has not been working for a while.

I agree with most of this the one problem is 'hope' they develop.... isn't that part of the coaches responsibility?

 

[97spiderfan]

I’ll take two starter level players from each class every year.

Yes I realize that hasn’t happened, but that is what happened with the class you pointed out.

True. But how many times are you going to have a 6 man class to get those 2? And the other 4 should at least be guys that have a semblance of a game that translates to an A-10 program.

 

[iSpider]

So what are our classes of 2023 and 2024 looking like?
Will we have any scholarships available for those classes?
Assuming that 2023 has a class of one, i.e., Burton, where will the other scholarships come from and when will they be available?
Will Burton be joined his senior year by a bunch of freshmen and sophomores?
Won't the success ratio then need to be one hundred percent?
Aren't we going to have to chase someone off?

 

[nathanw19]

True. But how many times are you going to have a 6 man class to get those 2? And the other 4 should at least be guys that have a semblance of a game that translates to an A-10 program.

That fair.

But I look at it as 2 were 1 year flyers. They didn’t hit, and we’re rolled into people like Woj and Dre.

The other 2 I would hope either develop or move on as well, as their current abilities aren’t good enough for the A10.

I think the killers are players that have no impact over 4 years. You can really only afford 1 of those per class (assuming 15 scholarship players).

 

[spider23]

I like the freshman class. I would say Mooney really needs to improve on his recruiting size/length/athleticism at the 2-4 spots, so we can play defense. Guys like Andre in this class.

I can remember when you had Martel/Butler/K Smith/Garrett/Harper all on the roster as forwards. That was teams that could really compete with high level teams. Had depth and versatility and could really get into teams defensively.

I do think with Burton coming on next year with Andre, and a new coach that could bring in a 6'8 athletic grad transfer to rotate in with Cayo and Golden, you could compete against top teams much better. I do like what I have seen of Sal so far, but I don't see him being a physically imposing player quite yet.

 

[whampas]

I like the freshman class. I would say Mooney really needs to improve on his recruiting size/length/athleticism at the 2-4 spots, so we can play defense. Guys like Andre in this class.

I can remember when you had Martel/Butler/K Smith/Garrett/Harper all on the roster as forwards. That was teams that could really compete with high level teams. Had depth and versatility and could really get into teams defensively.

I do think with Burton coming on next year with Andre, and a new coach that could bring in a 6'8 athletic grad transfer to rotate in with Cayo and Golden, you could compete against top teams much better. I do like what I have seen of Sal so far, but I don't see him being a physically imposing player quite yet.

I fear there will be no new coach next year. It may be several years before I allow myself back in the RC. I hope against the odds that a change is made.

 

[MrTbone]

I’ll take two starter level players from each class every year.

Yes I realize that hasn’t happened, but that is what happened with the class you pointed out.

2 of 3 is ok per class, but 2 of 6 extrapolated means you only have 4 decent players to start and zero bench. Can’t live on that.

 

[MrTbone]

I'm happy with the improvement from Yates.
I love the 2021 class of Golden, Cayo, Sherod, Francis and Gilyard.
and I'm excited with what we've seen from Wojcik, Gustavson, Sal and Grace. I understand questions about Bryce and Tomas, but I'm not ruling them out yet. Bryce looked very active in his run. Tomas didn't look healthy. and even if they miss, that's a good batting average.
plus we get Burton next year.

so yeah, Trap. I don't understand the complaints about our recent recruiting. we've been building a really nice roster. we need them to grow old together.

and for crying out loud, this isn't about Mooney. everything doesn't have to be about Mooney. this is about the players on the roster. we have a roster that can be really good next year. I'm not giving up on this season either.

At what point would you concede? Not being inflammatory, just curious.

 

[MrTbone]

I think the killers are players that have no impact over 4 years. You can really only afford 1 of those per class (assuming 15 scholarship players).

FYI, you only get 13 scholarships.

 

[urfan1]

with 13 scholarships if you fail on 1/3 then at most you have 9, probably 8 players. time to develop, injuries, etc kill your chances of any real success

 

[spiderman]

At what point would you concede? Not being inflammatory, just curious.

when I don't see enough talent to win with.
I never look at it as "we haven't danced in 6 years". maybe I should. but I look forward. I think we have talent on the roster. but days like this make me wonder, when we nobody can hit a freaking shot.

 

[mr.spider]

He wouldn't be my first choice, but I would prefer him to Mooney.

Well, duh. You've said it, I've said, we would do better with no one on the sidelines coaching our team. I honestly mean that.

 

[SpiderRick]

At what point would you concede? Not being inflammatory, just curious.

Maybe after tonight's beat down by an AWFUL team

 

[MrTbone]

when I don't see enough talent to win with.
I never look at it as "we haven't danced in 6 years". maybe I should. but I look forward. I think we have talent on the roster. but days like this make me wonder, when we nobody can hit a freaking shot.

Does coaching factor into your concession or Are you certain that our issues are talent related?

Again, not trying to be inflammatory but it seems evident that there’s one constant in our makeup and perhaps that’s more responsible for our success or failure than just player quality.

 

[spiderman]

Does coaching factor into your concession or Are you certain that our issues are talent related?

Again, not trying to be inflammatory but it seems evident that there’s one constant in our makeup and perhaps that’s more responsible for our success or failure than just player quality.

I didn't feel we were unprepared or poorly coached yesterday. coaches don't make shots. against a 2-3 zone, sure you can find the high/low like Beck said. but you also have to make shots. we were 4-30 from 3 with Grant missing inside shots. all we had was Cayo driving. Jacob lost confidence and stopped shooting. we were hitting backboard and air on pretty open looks. it's crazy.

I think we have talent and we've recruited a bunch of guys that are supposed to make open shots. we got good looks. we missed all of them. certainly deserved to lose.

I don't think Mooney is the cause of all the losses like some of you do, but this isn't working. I'm fine making a change. but don't ask me to write a check. if someone has the money, make the call.

 

[MrTbone]

I don't think Mooney is the cause of all the losses like some of you do, but this isn't working. I'm fine making a change. but don't ask me to write a check. if someone has the money, make the call.

It’s never isolated so I totally agree there. I don’t think CM is uniquely at fault, there’s absolutely evidence that he has not received administrative support at times and has had a talent deficit in part due to that.

I changed my mind three years ago when the senior/junior led team went 16-16 and threw in the towel with last year’s effort. As noted, it isn’t working.