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Patrick Beilein returns to Buffalo

When I checked the game it was 37-34 LeMoyne a few seconds before halftime.
55-18 Buffalo rest of the way...
 
urmite said:
When I checked the game it was 37-34 LeMoyne a few seconds before halftime.
55-18 Buffalo rest of the way...
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At some point, talent wins out over coaching. UB is awfully good this season.
 
I’d rather have proven D1 recruiter at this point. As you said, talent wins out over coaching.
 
PASpider said:
I’d rather have proven D1 recruiter at this point. As you said, talent wins out over coaching.
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I agree to an extent. Look at Danny Manning and Wake Forest. Several 4 star recruits and several top 100 recruits on that team. Yet lost to us and Houston Baptist
 
PASpider said:
I’d rather have proven D1 recruiter at this point. As you said, talent wins out over coaching.
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Why not both? Pat Beilein must have recruited well against his peer group to win every place he's been.

His father was hardly a "proven D1 recruiter" when he came to UR. He certainly didn't get big-time recruits at Canisius, and had never coached in D1 before taking that job. He did OK.
 
Wood, agree. My gut feeling is Patrick Beilein would be an instant upgrade at basketball strategy, recruiting, program building, winning, etc etc etc. I hope that as JB is publicly making a five second congratulatory message for Mooney's desperate plea, behind the scenes he is pushing his kid to Hardt to replace Mooney.
 
With respect to Manning and his 4-star recruits, it should be noted that simply recruiting highly-rated players doesn't equal wins on the court. You need to be able to recruit the "right" highly-ranked recruits, the ones with the requisite talent and potential, and they must have chemistry with the coaching staff and teammates, and be a good fit for whatever system the coach is running.

CM caught lightning in a bottle with a handful of his recruits back in the Anderson/Harper/Geriot era. It has been mostly misses since then, several of them were huge misses. Recruiting is the most important thing that needs to improve once CM is gone.
 
Can we please stop with the Patrick Beilein talk? The only reason we are talking about him is because his last name is Beilein. Lots of coach's son don't end up being half of what their father was. Shane Beimer/Frank Beimer, Jay Paterno/Joe Paterno are just a few that come to mind.

We have the ability to attract a coach with a significant pedigree who is either currently coaching very successfully at a lower level D-1 school or attract a top flight assistant with also a significant pedigree from a big time BCS program.

That is who we will be targeting. We are not taking a young D-3 head coach. Just not going to do it.

Plus, in case you recall, we had to go through Mooney's learning on the job on how to be a D-1 head coach his first few years, so we really want to hand the program over to another coach who has to have his training wheels on the first few years.
 
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97spiderfan said:
We are not taking a young D-3 head coach. Just not going to do it.
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dana-carvey-bush-1.jpg
 
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Shane Beimer/Frank Beimer, Jay Paterno/Joe Paterno are just a few that come to mind.

Remind me, at which school were those sons successful head coaches, like Pat Beilein has become?

We have the ability to attract a coach with a significant pedigree who is either currently coaching very successfully at a lower level D-1 school or attract a top flight assistant with also a significant pedigree

Like Sloane, Dooley, Mooney, or Wainwright?

The two most successful coaches in the last 50 years of the men's basketball program had either almost no Division I experience (Tarrant) or only five years of experience at a low-level Division I program (Beilein) when they took over at UR.

We need someone who can coach, and also understand the unique challenges our academic restrictions present.

I'm not saying Pat Beilein is that guy. But he certainly merits more than a cursory glance, or a blanket dismissal. Every great D1 coach got his first job someplace, and someone probably complained he wasn't experienced enough..
 
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Dooley was a hire within. Wainwright had a nice run at UNC-W and was the type of coach we should look to hire. That said, we should have analyzed his coaching X's and O's a bit better and seen that his success was based on Brett Blizzard vs. his coaching acumen.

Mooney had 1 year D-1 coaching experience, which was quite mediocre. That is not who we should be seeking to hire.

I still don't think Hardt is gonna waste much of our coaching search on a D-3 candidates. We need a guy who has been in around a winning D-1 program for a minimum of 3 plus year for a head coach and probably 5 plus years for top flight assistant.
 
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Hardt hired the current Bucknell coach, Nathan Davis. He had more D1 experience than Beilein does, but he was coaching at Randolph-Macon, a DIII school.
 
Is the difference between a D1 coach and a D3 coach the same as the difference between a D1 player and a D3 player? I think not. Shouldn’t be so hung up on where our next coach comes from. As long as he or she knows their shit I’m fine.
 
If we had another transfer come to UR, would you rather we get someone from Buffalo or Randolph Macon? Same principle applies to coaching.

Sure, a coach can pan out from Randolph Macon, but I want to see a more proven track record of success at varying upward levels.

The same way we need to stop recruiting players that have no other D1 offers and hope they become the next KA, we need to stop thinking as though we can't get a top coach here. Of course we can. To compete with the big boys, we need to have the confidence to go out and offer those 3/4 star recruits and land a couple of them. Same thing with coaching. We need to go out and get someone like Nate Oats. That's how you move the needle. Not hoping that a coach from some random DIII school will become the next Mike Krzyzewski
 
If we had another transfer come to UR, would you rather we get someone from Buffalo or Randolph Macon? Same principle applies to coaching.

To broad a question, a bench warmer vs an D-III All American, I may want the D-III AA.
 
Wood Hall said:
Hardt hired the current Bucknell coach, Nathan Davis. He had more D1 experience than Beilein does, but he was coaching at Randolph-Macon, a DIII school.
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True. And I think for a Patriot league school that is probably an option. Patriot League schools do not have near the same facilities, athletic budget, and organizational commitment as top level A-10 schools do. Although, I do question our organizational commitment to our program beside the $$$ we commit to it.
 
Too much of a reach - no offense to Pat Beilein, but he needs a stop in between at a lower level D1 program before moving on to UR or another school of our level. If our program hires him - then we are basically saying, lets take the cheapest option available and lets use his name - Beilein - to create a buzz.
 
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we all want the best coach we can obtain, should such a search begin, don't think one should eliminate any name based on one criteria whether it be age or prior school or what have you. why handcuff yourself, interview all the guys or ladies you want to so we don't miss a gem who might be under the radar, etc.
 
97spiderfan said:
Dooley was a hire within. Wainwright had a nice run at UNC-W and was the type of coach we should look to hire. That said, we should have analyzed his coaching X's and O's a bit better and seen that his success was based on Brett Blizzard vs. his coaching acumen.

Mooney had 1 year D-1 coaching experience, which was quite mediocre. That is not who we should be seeking to hire.

I still don't think Hardt is gonna waste much of our coaching search on a D-3 candidates. We need a guy who has been in around a winning D-1 program for a minimum of 3 plus year for a head coach and probably 5 plus years for top flight assistant.
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Wainwright was a nice enough guy, very funny but I don't want another Wainwright.
 
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97spiderfan said:
Dooley was a hire within. Wainwright had a nice run at UNC-W and was the type of coach we should look to hire. That said, we should have analyzed his coaching X's and O's a bit better and seen that his success was based on Brett Blizzard vs. his coaching acumen.

Mooney had 1 year D-1 coaching experience, which was quite mediocre. That is not who we should be seeking to hire.

I still don't think Hardt is gonna waste much of our coaching search on a D-3 candidates. We need a guy who has been in around a winning D-1 program for a minimum of 3 plus year for a head coach and probably 5 plus years for top flight assistant.
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I-M-UR said:
Wainwright was a nice enough guy, very funny but I don't want another Wainwright.
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+1
 
actually loved the way he scheduled, set it up so that if we did well, we danced and we did. his prob was going after too many recruits who were a question mark academically and the butting of heads eventually nailed him. that is why it has to be a fit from all angles, can't hire a guy who has been successful by getting any player he wants, will not work here, has to be a guy who wins because he can coach and work within the framework provided by our administration for the guys he pursues.
 
I would not mind another Wainwright type - someone who schedules to play anyone at anytime. And someone who pushes the envelope in terms of recruiting. We complain on here all the time about recruiting and trying to get near a top 100 recruit or at least have a close to top recruiting class in the A10 - I think you need a Wainwright type to do that, and of course once the kids get in - we have to dance to prove it can work here at UR.
 
I would love to know what Wainwright did all those years at UNCW to fool us. He got here and basically had no offensive scheme at all. Then recruited a future rapist by hiring his high school coach. Not really the best look. But I agree, he did schedule tough and it paid off despite him.
 
Easy on the future rapist claim - that is not even close to the truth. I agree - he was bringing in guys that are not your "typical" UR recruits. But like I said - we complain on here all the time about recruiting and Wainwright is the only guy to get us near a top 100 recruit.

In terms of coaching - his philosophy was easy. Play hard nose man-to-man defense, and on offense - ride your best player as far as he will take you. At UNCW - he rode Blizzard, and then here at UR he was able to ride Skrocki his senior year, with help from Dobbins. Not a terrible philosophy as long as you get that really good recruit every 2-3 years.

Our philosophy now has been - recruit under the radar guys and hope they develop. And it has not been working for a while.
 
If we had another transfer come to UR, would you rather we get someone from Buffalo or Randolph Macon? Same principle applies to coaching.

Actually, it doesn't at all. Coaches don't play. Successful DIII players rarely move to DI. In coaching, that transition happens all the time.
 
How many DIII coaches go from coaching DIII to coaching (head coach) a P5 school?

How many DIII coaches go from coaching DIII to coaching (head coach) a high mid-major program, such as the A10?
 
If we hire another wainwright I will definitely turn in my fan badge and retire. It should be possible to hire someone who isn’t skirting the edges to recruit and also can draw up some kind of inbounds play.
 
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SpiderTrap said:
How many DIII coaches go from coaching DIII to coaching (head coach) a P5 school?

How many DIII coaches go from coaching DIII to coaching (head coach) a high mid-major program, such as the A10?
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Bucknell's, for one. I'm am sure there are others. McKillop came from high school.

As I said, we need someone who can coach, and also understand the unique challenges our academic restrictions present.

I'm not saying Pat Beilein is that guy. But he certainly merits more than a cursory glance, or a blanket dismissal. Every great D1 coach got his first job someplace, and someone probably complained he wasn't experienced enough.

PS: Pat Beilein coaches at a DII school.
 
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Beilein left Ole Jer a loaded team, a Cadillac. The team did well in spite of Ole Jer coaching imo. But I did like some of his philosophies like scheduling and the recruiting attitude, not the execution.

Back to Pat Beilein, I've talked him up a bit on the other thread. I'm confident he'll continue to do well and move up. I mean he could have easily been the top assistant now at Michigan if he wanted and some people are fine with a top P5 assistant. He's doing his dad's track but also got some experience at D1 plus NBA. And he knows Richmond. But I get the apprehension or why he wouldn't be on top of the list. Not the top of mine either, just saying do not be surprised if his name comes up in a serious way. Especially if we can't land a few of the top candidates on list. You miss him this go around, he's likely passed us by next time in market for a coach. There are a lot of good options out there right now though.

Also Tim Cluess to Iona is another example of coach moving up from D2 and doing well. If Buck and Iona aren't high mid majors they are close enough. It's not the most common path we get that but sometimes you have to look deeper. I doubt it happens but like Wood says don't dismiss it b/c UR certainly won't.
 
So we are comparing ourselves to Bucknell and Iona now. How times have changed. Not too long ago - on the heals of the NCAA appearances, we were thinking we were a good fit for the new Big East - ready to compete with the likes of Villanova (National Title Winner), Butler, Creighton, and Xavier - consistently ranked and NCAA tourney teams (not to mention Creighton is mentioned in the FBI probe as offering money to recruits) - and now, just a few years later - we are thinking a DIII coach with a nice last name might be a good fit as our new head coach - IF (and its a big IF) our administration decides (and I don't think they will) to fire Mooney and pay him 2-3 million not to coach our team. And we are saying hiring a DIII coach or DII coach worked for Iona and Bucknell - so it could work for UR?? Maybe we should join the patriot league after all. And as someone mentioned Nathan Davis was an assistant at DI level before going back to Macon - he had stops at Navy, Bucknell and Colgate.

Cluess is the type of guy we should be looking at. DII to Iona, and then at Iona - 5 NCAA appearances and 2 NIT appearances in last 7 years We can hire Cluess and Beilein can get his feet wet at Iona.
 
SpiderTrap said:
So we are comparing ourselves to Bucknell and Iona now. How times have changed. Not too long ago - on the heals of the NCAA appearances, we were thinking we were a good fit for the new Big East - ready to compete with the likes of Villanova (National Title Winner), Butler, Creighton, and Xavier - consistently ranked and NCAA tourney teams (not to mention Creighton is mentioned in the FBI probe as offering money to recruits) - and now, just a few years later - we are thinking a DIII coach with a nice last name might be a good fit as our new head coach - IF (and its a big IF) our administration decides (and I don't think they will) to fire Mooney and pay him 2-3 million not to coach our team. And we are saying hiring a DIII coach or DII coach worked for Iona and Bucknell - so it could work for UR?? Maybe we should join the patriot league after all. And as someone mentioned Nathan Davis was an assistant at DI level before going back to Macon - he had stops at Navy, Bucknell and Colgate.

Cluess is the type of guy we should be looking at. DII to Iona, and then at Iona - 5 NCAA appearances and 2 NIT appearances in last 7 years We can hire Cluess and Beilein can get his feet wet at Iona.
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With Cluess record why has he not moved on before now?
 
Bucknell played in the 2011, 2013, 2017 and 2018 NCAA tournaments. Bucknell played in the 2012, 2015 and 2016 NITs.

So, Bucknell has played in the NCAAs or the NIT every year since 2011. I'd say that's a pretty good program to compare ourselves to, wouldn't you?
 
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