D1 games maybe
but on Wed night he will come in at the 4:30 mark when we are up 75-45.Opening Night Lineup - Just for fun
- Thread starter spider23
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but on Wed night he will come in at the 4:30 mark when we are up 75-45.yeah, i agree, there was for sure some conditional phrasing in Moon's comments there. I'm not expecting a ton of minutes as he comes back from injury here.
BTW, Mooney confirmed on Behind the Web last night that tomorrow's starters will be Hunt, Tyne, Tanner, Neskovic, and Walz. Congrats Spiderman for the correct call!
Do we think we will go 10 deep, with subs being Roche and the other 4 transfers? Is B. Artis healthy and available to play?
8legs1dream
Graduate Assistant
Expected this once they were DNP in the scrimmages. Hoping they were on board with this from the jump and aren’t lured to the portal.
With transferring so easy and popular, I don't agree with redshirting guys. The chances are probably low they will be around for year 5 here anyway. Seems like it would open up more transfer possibilities. After their redshirt sophomore year, if they are good, they would be attractive to a lot more schools because they would have 2 years left and not 1.
Also, even if they are behind guys, there will likely be games where everyone would play. I would rather see them a few times this year because you can't copy a real game in practice, and also playing some this year might be enough to keep them happy and eliminate transfer possibilities next year. Or, what if a guy or two gets hurt? We might need them anyway and it would be better having players ready to play all year instead of having to take the redshirt off during the season. And, even another reason I don't like it is even though we would like to think our guys who redshirt will go all out everyday in practice, where is the incentive if you know you will never play this year?
Also, even if they are behind guys, there will likely be games where everyone would play. I would rather see them a few times this year because you can't copy a real game in practice, and also playing some this year might be enough to keep them happy and eliminate transfer possibilities next year. Or, what if a guy or two gets hurt? We might need them anyway and it would be better having players ready to play all year instead of having to take the redshirt off during the season. And, even another reason I don't like it is even though we would like to think our guys who redshirt will go all out everyday in practice, where is the incentive if you know you will never play this year?
Even if they seem fine with it now, who knows what could change during the season or after? Just seems like a bad idea. Just playing in 5-7 games, even if limited minutes in routs, could be a big difference in keeping guys happy and into the program. Tanner played 6 games and 25 total minutes last year. Now, he is likely starting this year. Who knows what thoughts might have entered his mind last year had he known he would never get minutes.
Yeah I agree with those reasons. I'm not against redshirting in theory, especially if u just were not going to play & have a very good team in front of u, but it's kind of a relic in college bball w the portal. Because as u stated, while no fun to predict someone leaving when they just came thru the door, the odds do go up that it will be another team benefitting in future from our redshirting, and not us.
and idk how much the purely developmental redshirts work out for us overall. I'd say more do not work but that's my initial vibe from memory. Bucknor under JB was 1 but he was really young as frosh & that's a long time ago.
And it just stinks it's another year we aren't getting a freshman stud. doesn't mean they have to be a top scorer, guys like Tyne and Burton were solid contributors, but that seems our ceiling recently, and plenty of teams get fresh that can make a bigger difference immediately.
The reports on Robinson sounded like he could help too. But must be too raw idk. if they were ready I don't think u make that decision, not in 2024.
Missed this news yesterday though I know sec9 alluded to it in a response. I'm with 4700 here, don't see much upside to redshirting in this environment. Have always felt that it mentally de-emphasizes development by knowing not going to play. And like gkiller notes, it basically indicates we didn't get a freshman stud. Not to bang on Graham, but he is getting a ton of minutes as a true guard and seemed in over his head vs pressure from a d2 back court. Would rather see McGlothin get those minutes and be up to speed for later in the year potentially.
I think our depth chart is as balanced as it ever has been. These frosh are
very talented but getting adequate playing time may be difficult. You want
to recruit the best players you can regardless their years remaining. You roll
the dice and and hold your breath. If the frosh are so outstanding in practice,
then you want them playing. Hopefully works out like Trey Davis’s first year when
he and three other talented frosh were redshirted and all but one stayed four years.
very talented but getting adequate playing time may be difficult. You want
to recruit the best players you can regardless their years remaining. You roll
the dice and and hold your breath. If the frosh are so outstanding in practice,
then you want them playing. Hopefully works out like Trey Davis’s first year when
he and three other talented frosh were redshirted and all but one stayed four years.
I too am not a huge fan of the redshirt but I don’t think the “won’t stick around for 5” rationale has much to do with it. Look at all the 5th year guys we’ve had here. I can only think of 4 guys who were heavy rotation guys leaving for their fifth year during the CM era.
Bigger concern is you have someone promising who is impatient. I think they might be more impatient if they don’t redshirt and still don’t play.
Worried about B Artis ... hoping we hear today that him not playing the 2nd half was just a precaution . not sure
Who are all the redshirt 5th year guys we have had here? Seems like all of our
redshirts the past several years are elsewhere now. My comment about a 5th year is related to the rules now, which makes transferring so easy, so redshirting several years ago would be completely different than redshirting now.
Trey and others would have had to sit out a year had they transferred. Big difference now when you can see an opening on a team and transfer right away. Look at Tyler and Dji. Let's say they were redshirted instead of covid. If you play well, there will be transfer possibilities your 5th year. If Bryson and Jaylen play well for us, they will be very attractive as 5th year guys to power schools. I think the risk of guys getting impatient and leaving soon after their redshirt year is too great to hope you have a guy stay all 5 years.
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Mooney was asked about it in postgame, and he said they’re just easing him back him.
Also said to RS Fr having talked to players and parents, decision jointly made to RS. FYI my interpretation of his words.
I have heard the "decision made jointly" talk a lot where the guy eventually ended up transferring.
The potentially payoff of having these two around as 5th year seniors is very high, even if it is unlikely we will see that payoff. But the cost is almost 0 to do this. We have 11 other scholarship players. I don't see a lot of Jason Nelson, Malcom Dread, Isiah Wilson, etc. types in that 11. These two are just not going to play much this year unless we have a lot of injuries, in which case we'll probably burn the shirts.
This decision is in the best interest of these two players, even if they don't spend that fifth year here. Hopefully they will appreciate that and realize the grass is not greener elsewhere.
I get what you are saying, but what I worry about is a year without playing gives these guys a lot of time to wonder what elsewhere might look like. Let's say they each only play 5 games this year. Well, maybe they have a game where they score 4 or 5 points, make a 3, or get a dunk. Now, they are waking up with more energy, and going to class the next day feeling much better about things here. At practice the next day, they would actually have a play they made to talk about with their teammates instead of being a forgotten redshirt. I realize everything might be just fine right now, and they could both be 100% good with redshirting right now, but things change. With the transfer rules, I think you have to worry about that when talking redshirting. A year is a long way away, and I don't want to lose these guys.
I don't have inside info on Robinson and McGlothin in particular, but I've heard from other non-Richmond people regarding this kind of redshirt so I assume it's similar.
it's really not the school looking to redshirt a kid to save him for a 5th year in 2029. that would seem crazy. and for a coach, you're better off having the kid available now, just in case. but you have an honest conversation with the kid and his family. you're looking to do what's best for the kid. and the kid makes the decision.
some kids like Tanner last season will opt to play and take their chances. maybe they get a real shot. maybe someone gets hurt. maybe not. do you think Tanner benefitted from 24 garbage time minutes played last year? I don't. he's ready this year because he's good and worked his butt off. not because of the 24 minutes.
other kids will take the development year. they get a 5th year of school paid for and can get a masters. they may or may not stay at that school for the 5th year. it could be a great opportunity to move on and try somewhere else ... if things work out then up a level to a power conference with a bigger NIL. if not, then down a level to play more. but a 5th year paid. or they can stay. but that decision is 4 years away.
it's really not the school looking to redshirt a kid to save him for a 5th year in 2029. that would seem crazy. and for a coach, you're better off having the kid available now, just in case. but you have an honest conversation with the kid and his family. you're looking to do what's best for the kid. and the kid makes the decision.
some kids like Tanner last season will opt to play and take their chances. maybe they get a real shot. maybe someone gets hurt. maybe not. do you think Tanner benefitted from 24 garbage time minutes played last year? I don't. he's ready this year because he's good and worked his butt off. not because of the 24 minutes.
other kids will take the development year. they get a 5th year of school paid for and can get a masters. they may or may not stay at that school for the 5th year. it could be a great opportunity to move on and try somewhere else ... if things work out then up a level to a power conference with a bigger NIL. if not, then down a level to play more. but a 5th year paid. or they can stay. but that decision is 4 years away.
haha this is the exact same discussion had when Marcus Randolph didn't redshirt and was now a sophomore vs. Jason Nelson, Dread and Noyes all redshirting. We lost all of them anyway, redshirt or not.
I think it's just a player and his family keeping the option open to having 4 years to play actual basketball in games, with an option to maybe get a free grad degree out of it if a pro career option doesn't pan out (and now to get an additional year of NIL!!!) Some guys like Randolph and Tanner bet on themselves and that's fine too.
The thing to remember is that each year/situation may be different. Tanner maybe looked at the roster and saw more immediate opportunity in his future, so chose not to redshirt last year.
But in looking at this year's team, if the coaches are honest with the players and tell them they are unlikely to see the court because of the experience and depth above them BUT that guys like Roche and Dusan will graduate and there will be real opportunity next year to get minutes (likely as backups to Tanner and AP), then it's fair to expect them to take a full year of opportunity down the line rather than a few minutes of (likely garbage time) ball this year.
I think it's just a player and his family keeping the option open to having 4 years to play actual basketball in games, with an option to maybe get a free grad degree out of it if a pro career option doesn't pan out (and now to get an additional year of NIL!!!) Some guys like Randolph and Tanner bet on themselves and that's fine too.
The thing to remember is that each year/situation may be different. Tanner maybe looked at the roster and saw more immediate opportunity in his future, so chose not to redshirt last year.
But in looking at this year's team, if the coaches are honest with the players and tell them they are unlikely to see the court because of the experience and depth above them BUT that guys like Roche and Dusan will graduate and there will be real opportunity next year to get minutes (likely as backups to Tanner and AP), then it's fair to expect them to take a full year of opportunity down the line rather than a few minutes of (likely garbage time) ball this year.
I definitely get what you are saying, and while I get we need to worry about a kid's interests and what is best for him, I don't think we know what is best for them right now. Like you said, every case is different. So, as a coach, with the way the transfer rules are now, I am going to look out for the program here, and IMO, you need to keep your freshman as involved and as part of the team as possible, even if it just means 5 games and 20 some minutes like Tanner got last year. I am not concerned with whether or not a few minutes helps a guy on the court the following year because it likely doesn’t, but what it does do is keep them involved and maybe puts any possible transfer thoughts on the back burner.
Now, if the player and family are the ones asking to redshirt, then of course you 100% redshirt them in this situation where they won't be part of the rotation, but, while I would always be honest with guys about what playing looks like that year, I would not go to them and the parents and initiate any redshirt talk.
Not a huge fan of the redshirt now with the portal. But also understand that if a player is not going to get much PT that why they may decide to go this route. I get these two mixed up but I know one of them had a lot of hype on hear as a player who had a college ready body and could make an immediate impact this year. Apparently, that was a bit hyperbolic.
I also think there is a mental side to the redshirt decision. You have guys like Tanner and Randolph who kind of took a bet on themselves that they could play. That is a dog mentality, which I like. Also, once you redshirt, I have to think it takes a bit out of the desire to compete 100% ALL of the time in practice when you know you are going to play. If you are not redshirting, have to think you are taking every opportunity you get in practice to impress the coaches to maybe get your shot. Again, shows the dog mentality.
I do understand looking at the roster, knowing you are a freshman, knowing we brought in a senior transfers who plays your spot for a year and understand the odds aren't great.
I do understand looking at the roster, knowing you are a freshman, knowing we brought in a senior transfers who plays your spot for a year and understand the odds aren't great.
not sure it was hyperbolic. Robinson might be the best athlete on the team. and he's strong enough for college ball. just too many guys in front of him right now. the redshirt year is time for him to work on his shot and his game.
I think this final covid year with so many grad transfers showing up on teams will likely add up to more freshmen redshirting.
and when scholarships increase to 15, it will be even tougher for freshmen to earn 1st year playing time, so developmental redshirting may be back permanently.
if you're recruiting a guy who doesn't have that dog mentality even in a redshirt year, then you're recruiting the wrong guy.
these are D1 athletes. the good ones are competitive as hell. even the ones that redshirt.
It’s admirable we have best interest of kid in mind. Odds r 1 of the 2 frosh might not be as good as we thought. Hope not but just math and nature of recruiting that u will miss. And if they even get thru 4 years, the odds definitely go way up to leave as grad transfer because they have the degree. unless u have some killer situation & team returning u r more likely to see what's out there especially with pay for play fake NIL.
Yes we had all those 5th year guys from Covid but they came in same 1-2 year cycle - Golden (6 years) Gilyard, Cayo Goose Grace. Maybe they were just a tight group. Take that group away and it's not great success for other 5th years - Ododa Fore Burton Dji. & I agree with 4700 it's hard to compare otherwise with the previous sit out transfer era.
My main objection is we aren't hitting on enough frosh that u can't keep off court. That's the hard part. It's 1 thing if we have a great deep team, but tbd. If we r so deep & good they can't help us, fine take the redshirt. but if they help u be a better team u don't. With Mooney having a lifetime contract might have a different perspective. Tho personally imo when u r looking at 3 for 20 NCAA I don't know how.
& it is one of Traps fav subjects but imo he's right on this one...we regularly over inflate our depth. Maybe this is the year we have it. But we have guys w prior injuries like B Artis Soulis & Roche. doesn't even factor a new injury which is likely over course of season. if burn the shirt later u r worse off. and like 23 I'm concerned about D. The two frosh I thought had the body type/athleticism to help there. McGlothin is thin but Durant like wingspan which helps if quick enough. so felt like at least 1 of the 2 brought something we may lack.
I do agree with sman we might see more developmental redshirts in future with 15 ships tho
Yes we had all those 5th year guys from Covid but they came in same 1-2 year cycle - Golden (6 years) Gilyard, Cayo Goose Grace. Maybe they were just a tight group. Take that group away and it's not great success for other 5th years - Ododa Fore Burton Dji. & I agree with 4700 it's hard to compare otherwise with the previous sit out transfer era.
My main objection is we aren't hitting on enough frosh that u can't keep off court. That's the hard part. It's 1 thing if we have a great deep team, but tbd. If we r so deep & good they can't help us, fine take the redshirt. but if they help u be a better team u don't. With Mooney having a lifetime contract might have a different perspective. Tho personally imo when u r looking at 3 for 20 NCAA I don't know how.
& it is one of Traps fav subjects but imo he's right on this one...we regularly over inflate our depth. Maybe this is the year we have it. But we have guys w prior injuries like B Artis Soulis & Roche. doesn't even factor a new injury which is likely over course of season. if burn the shirt later u r worse off. and like 23 I'm concerned about D. The two frosh I thought had the body type/athleticism to help there. McGlothin is thin but Durant like wingspan which helps if quick enough. so felt like at least 1 of the 2 brought something we may lack.
I do agree with sman we might see more developmental redshirts in future with 15 ships tho
Another part of this is that Mooney is really betting on a shift back to the importance of developing 4-year players as opposed to grabbing multiple impact players from the portal every single year. He's mentioned it multiple times this offseason. I somewhat agree with him given that the COVID extra year is gone after this season and there will be far less kids in the portal moving forward, but it's still so easy for a player to move on the second something happens that they don't like.
If he's confident that he can keep these redshirts out of the portal, then I understand the strategy. Like VT said though, these are 18/19 year olds and things can change at any moment.
If he's confident that he can keep these redshirts out of the portal, then I understand the strategy. Like VT said though, these are 18/19 year olds and things can change at any moment.
I think NIL makes things also more complex. A potential of 5 years of NIL earnings versus 4—especially when that fifth year could be at age 23—is a reasonable consideration for most 18-year-olds and their families. For a strong post-grad player, the NIL potential may rival what they’d make in a secondary league in Europe or Asia, with the added benefit of being a star in an exciting college environment. Just my two cents.
do I sense sarcasm? I see this as a strength of Mooney and his staff. it's building a relationship with a kid and his parents. it doesn't work if it's only about the best interest of the coach and his program. you want a coach who honestly wants what's best for the kid. that's the family bond and team chemistry Mooney gets credit for.
Mooney may not actually WANT the kid to take the redshirt year. in fact, he probably wants a kid to say "I'll burn it" like Tanner did. but in some cases, when you have enough upper class talent in front of them, you give the kid the choice. kids only get 4 years to play. hate to waste one for a few minutes.
Oh I agree any D-1 athletes are super competitive. But we all know a "dog" when you see one, they have another gear of competitiveness and drive, taking any slight as motivation to be better. Jordan King, dog, Kendall Anthony, dog, Kevin Anderson, dog. We've had lesser players with the same mentality too.
Jordan and Kobe were the ultimate dogs. Their talent alone would have made them perennial all stars, but their singular, unwavering drive to never back down, to treat every single practice as Game 7 is what set them apart.
I'm going to be curious as to who wears that mantle on this team.
No, your spidey sense is off here. it was not sarcasm at all.
but r u trying to tell me something lol.
Tanner is showing you can go from essentially redshirting to day-one starter the next season. Not sure if that impacts the current freshmen’s redshirt decision or not.
