Mens - @ William and Mary Wed 12/18 7pm Flo

[97spiderfan]

No. Disagreeing on the general statement of our staff being smart. I have a really tough time seeing us playing 3D chess here with our roster when we sit in the 270 in the NET and can't beat low level Patriot League and CAA teams.

This roster is the type of roster that gets coaches fired.

 

[GKiller]

This roster is the type of roster that gets coaches fired.

Just setting up for extension if we r halfway decent in A10. All the coaching accolades he’ll get r pending with this roster. U must reward performance. That is what we r told. The only difference is the press release won’t say we continue to be “one of the top basketball programs in the NATION”.

 

[spiderman]

No. Disagreeing on the general statement of our staff being smart. I have a really tough time seeing us playing 3D chess here with our roster when we sit in the 270 in the NET and can't beat low level Patriot League and CAA teams.

This roster is the type of roster that gets coaches fired.

I meant we're being smart in not being reactionary, benching someone like AP because he wasn't shooting well and because we're losing.
patience is smart there. he's a talented player. and he's here 2 years.

 

[Eight Legger]

Let's take our minds off things for a moment and ponder that Apostolos Roumoglou is AP and not AR, while Adrian Peterson was AD and not AP.

 

[97spiderfan]

I meant we're being smart in not being reactionary, benching someone like AP because he wasn't shooting well and because we're losing.
patience is smart there. he's a talented player. and he's here 2 years.

We really don't have any options. If we had someone more talented than AP, they would be playing right now. We don't, so he plays by default. And not picking on AP in particular. He is no better or worse than the rest of the assembled talent not named Delonnie Hunt.

 

[urmite]

I meant we're being smart in not being reactionary, benching someone like AP because he wasn't shooting well and because we're losing.
patience is smart there. he's a talented player. and he's here 2 years.

So all 13 players aren’t here for only one year from now on?

 

[brooklyn brownstone]

Just setting up for extension if we r halfway decent in A10. All the coaching accolades he’ll get r pending with this roster. U must reward performance. That is what we r told. The only difference is the press release won’t say we continue to be “one of the top basketball programs in the NATION”.

If the reward for 2/3 of a good season that never sniffed NCAA Tournament contention or discussion is a HC contract extension, what is the punishment for the 2 losing seasons that bookend it? Specifically what comes from the bottom completely falling out this season? If the answer is continue on, nothing to see here, we're leafy, then it's just ridiculous and this is all a waste of our time.

Somehow I don't think there is going to be a refund, nor should there be. The AD gave that extension. Moon has a terrific agent, best in the country apparently. But something has to give. I'm interested in the reaction - or lack of it - from the AD or NIL boosters.

If your whole mantra is "I'm a winning coach" but then you cease to be able to beat Q4 teams or the dregs of the A10, 55% becomes 45% or worse very quickly and you're now a losing coach doing less with more resources.

I'd like to reiterate that UR's schedule is TRASH, and these results are mind-boggling against it.

My personal view is that UR consistently goes after project guys who the coaches think might grow into UR's offense. I think the approach just has to change. If the best class ever gives you 2 losing seasons, 1 NCAA and 1 bubble year - what is the expectation from all classes that are not the best ever? Time to recruit guys who are stars in the making, starters from Day 1. If the staff cannot do that - they are failing at their jobs.
---
To shift gears and address recent play to end this lengthy post: The recent results of giving up 90+ points, for me nothing has changed from how UR was defending from the Maine game (which was a month ago!!!), it's just that the competition started hitting more of their wide open looks, like Marist did (6 weeks ago!!) Many on here realized immediately that the poor shooting from 3 by opponents in early games kept those games close - yet still resulted merely close wins (like Maine) or even losses (like Bucknell.) And that those looks would become big points if those open shots started going in. Now they are. Weeks later, same stuff.

If spiderman is correct in his posts today and some of the current guys have actual talent - then it seems so simple where the issue is.

 

[8legs1dream]

If your whole mantra is "I'm a winning coach" but then you cease to be able to beat Q4 teams or the dregs of the A10, 55% becomes 45% or worse very quickly and you're now a losing coach doing less with more resources.

He's been here so damn long now it would take probably 6-7 seasons worth of whatever this season ends up being to get down to 45% and there would be plenty of moral victories along the way to pull him through with an extension regardless

 

[VegasSpider]

Because you don't go zone against a team that is already crushing you from distance. That's not a good choice.

I did not pay for Flo, so didn't watch, so I'm only guessing based on the radio call, but it sounded like we continually over-helped and left guys open, and sagged off their big men at the top of the key. So same stuff that's been burning us in prior games. So the adjustment isn't "go zone", it's STAY CONNECTED TO THE GUY YOU ARE GUARDING AND DON'T EFFING RUN 30 FEET AWAY TO HELP ON SOMEONE ELSE

I understand that... and fair enough... and since im invisible behind the keyboard i probably should've pre-emptively expected this perfectly valid and reasonable response.... and communicated that I appreciate the strategy behind going zone/playing man etc..... but this isn't a one body problem.

We've had some really good shooting teams.... but I think everyone on this board will tell you what has happened to them when the opposing team goes zone out of a timeout.... and it isn't that we shoot them out of it, lol. There's confusion and typically a shot clock violation. So, if nothing else, it breaks our rhythm even if for one possession. Keeps us guessing. Doesn't let us get comfortable and get the same guy the same shot from the same spot three possessions in a row (as an example).

And im with you on the other points.... they are ALSO problems . But last night's problem was more that they were constantly posting up D-Lo and Mikkel over and over again. We did nothing to help either of them. And in spite of all the talk that Mikkel could be our best defender OF ALL TIME at some point.... he's still a Sophomore and 5'10'' and their guards had like half a foot on him.

In any case, I'm honestly more upset we didn't just try to run them off the court. If we lost 122-119... I would've been much more ok with that compared to what happened last night. And maybe we're just not deep enough at the guard spot right now with B Artis hurt? I don't know. Im trying to come up with any reason to justify what i saw last night.... cause I don't like any other answer im coming up with.

 

[spider23]

Way back in the day, Mooney would go with the "posse", which included freshman and young guys, specifically remember Brothers being in that group. Worked super early in the season, it allowed for a change of pace, a new look on D - these guys pressed and trapped. It also allowed the younger guys to get game action, and actually have some fun and success. And it worked, b/c it was such a different look from our match up zone.

To Vegas point, need to have defenses dialed up and ready to go, he was not talking about go to 2-3 zone and sit in it. But yes, throwing a zone for a few possessions certainly has confused the heck out of Mooney. Again, good example I heard talked about recently was Pope at Kentucky was switching between three defenses to slow down Gonzaga and reel the game back in. Moon is above such tomfoolery. Or now he is.

 

[kneepadmckinney]

I understand that... and fair enough... and since im invisible behind the keyboard i probably should've pre-emptively expected this perfectly valid and reasonable response.... and communicated that I appreciate the strategy behind going zone/playing man etc..... but this isn't a one body problem.

We've had some really good shooting teams.... but I think everyone on this board will tell you what has happened to them when the opposing team goes zone out of a timeout.... and it isn't that we shoot them out of it, lol. There's confusion and typically a shot clock violation. So, if nothing else, it breaks our rhythm even if for one possession. Keeps us guessing. Doesn't let us get comfortable and get the same guy the same shot from the same spot three possessions in a row (as an example).

And im with you on the other points.... they are ALSO problems . But last night's problem was more that they were constantly posting up D-Lo and Mikkel over and over again. We did nothing to help either of them. And in spite of all the talk that Mikkel could be our best defender OF ALL TIME at some point.... he's still a Sophomore and 5'10'' and their guards had like half a foot on him.

In any case, I'm honestly more upset we didn't just try to run them off the court. If we lost 122-119... I would've been much more ok with that compared to what happened last night. And maybe we're just not deep enough at the guard spot right now with B Artis hurt? I don't know. Im trying to come up with any reason to justify what i saw last night.... cause I don't like any other answer im coming up with.

We are in full agreement that it is an "Also" problem, as you state it.

As for running, I think the issue there is we have two guards. White is still injured, and GWIII is a lawn ornament, apparently. Jack Graham isn't the answer. So it's hard to press a pressing team if you basically have no subs at guard that the coach is willing to use.

But as a conceptual matter, I'd love it if we pressed more. But it's so, so, so hard for Mooney to bring himself to do that because you have to be comfortable giving up the occasional fast break easy basket, and Mooney would rather slide down a razor blade log flume into a lemon juice swimming pool than give up a transition basket. Hence our systematic aversion to offensive rebounding. But the few times we really, really committed to it (the URI game in the A-10 tourney comes to mind), it was really effective.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Funny, a former D1 head coach told me the exact same thing 10 years ago at an AAU tournament, calling it the best job in the country. Big bucks and Zero pressure to win.

What that coach told you 10 years ago is still applicable today & will be for the next years until there's a change. A possible 20 loss year this year won't make a difference, as back to back 20 loss seasons is just history & numbers; nothing more.

 

[SpiderGuy]

Agree, there seems no path to the success many of us want in any kind of near term. Let's just say Mooney decided to leave. Do we really think Hardt will pick an awesome new guy? Yes Roussell was a good hire, but that was lucky in that he pulled him over from his previous place of employment. Don't have faith in him to find a gem in this case.

Can Bucknell football coach coach a basketball team?

 

[SpiderGuy]

So, play Walz and Beagle together? Sure. Worth a try.

Agree, but we are 11 games into the season, and I don't think it's happened? I doubt Moon will try it.

 

[Section9.RowD]

So, play Walz and Beagle together? Sure. Worth a try.

Been hoping and thinking this was going to at least be attempted all season ... the Naples tournament would have been a great time to experiment but might as well try against VMI

 

[CarolinaSpider]

I understand that... and fair enough... and since im invisible behind the keyboard i probably should've pre-emptively expected this perfectly valid and reasonable response.... and communicated that I appreciate the strategy behind going zone/playing man etc..... but this isn't a one body problem.

We've had some really good shooting teams.... but I think everyone on this board will tell you what has happened to them when the opposing team goes zone out of a timeout.... and it isn't that we shoot them out of it, lol. There's confusion and typically a shot clock violation. So, if nothing else, it breaks our rhythm even if for one possession. Keeps us guessing. Doesn't let us get comfortable and get the same guy the same shot from the same spot three possessions in a row (as an example).

And im with you on the other points.... they are ALSO problems . But last night's problem was more that they were constantly posting up D-Lo and Mikkel over and over again. We did nothing to help either of them. And in spite of all the talk that Mikkel could be our best defender OF ALL TIME at some point.... he's still a Sophomore and 5'10'' and their guards had like half a foot on him.

In any case, I'm honestly more upset we didn't just try to run them off the court. If we lost 122-119... I would've been much more ok with that compared to what happened last night. And maybe we're just not deep enough at the guard spot right now with B Artis hurt? I don't know. Im trying to come up with any reason to justify what i saw last night.... cause I don't like any other answer im coming up with.

We never attacked the press and like one announcer critiqued, we took 9 seconds to get up court, then another 10 seconds to get into the offense. We should have gotten the pass to the center of court, then looked to the second level for attacking the lane. Gilly, Dji and Blake were great at attacking the press. Maybe due to our guard depth, Mooney chose to not go fast.

 

[Eight Legger]

Against VMI, we should try literally anything different. A 13-man rotation. Five new starters. Run and gun. A 5-0 Pentagon zone defense. Walz playing point and Tyne playing center. Boyden coaching and Mooney selling popcorn.

 

[RichmondNative]

….we struggled to beat the press the entire second half .... and when we did .... with them having three guys stuck in the back court... we'd still pull the ball out and try to set our offense with like 12 seconds left on the shot clock.

This is the thing that drove me crazy while watching the game in person. On the plus side, I guess Mooney has command of his players because they did exactly what he told them to do.

It was a scrimmage that happens to count in the season record. More opportunities to refine the system and get ready for A10 play.

There were a few exceptions, especially Dusan in the first half. He wanted to take it to the Tribe and did. I heard Mooney debating this while on the radio show on Monday and obviously he gave Dusan some opportunity to “play his game”.

As everyone has been saying, the most significant problem is on the defensive side of the ball. It was basically layup line at the beginning of the game. Then UR settled in a bit for the 1st half. Unfortunately, the trend reappeared in the 2nd half along with the same over rotate and let a player who is canning 3s have a wide open look D.

As far as the environment at Kaplan, excitement is definitely building there and there were probably twice as many people there as there were 2 years ago. The new coach has brought new life to the program. What a surprise….

 

[72Spider]

Barely 2k at the game

 

[VT4700]

As far as the environment at Kaplan, excitement is definitely building there and there were probably twice as many people there as there were 2 years ago. The new coach has brought new life to the program. What a surprise….

There were 3,179 people there 2 years ago and 2,393 this year.

 

[97spiderfan]

Against VMI, we should try literally anything different. A 13-man rotation. Five new starters. Run and gun. A 5-0 Pentagon zone defense. Walz playing point and Tyne playing center. Boyden coaching and Mooney selling popcorn.

We will do nothing different against VMI and you all are gonna like it.

 

[spider23]

We will do nothing different against VMI and you all are gonna like it.

Thank you sir, may I have another.
WAP
Thank you sir, may I have another.
WAP

 

[RichmondNative]

There were 3,179 people there 2 years ago and 2,393 this year.

Ticket sales are a convenient metric, but they don’t tell you that the reason for the disparity is a weekday vs Saturday game and doesn’t count butts in seats either.

I was in the building both times and although my statement was more hyperbole than factual, my perception stands. The W&M fans were much more engaged this time than last. I will say that the average Robins Center crowd is significantly better than the crowds I have experienced at W&M basketball games. But is basketball the premier program at W&M? Of course not.