Media Discussion of Spider Hoops
- Thread starter MolivaManiac
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JOC was as blunt as I've ever heard him. On Sal's lack of playing time: "He's lost on offense, he's lost on defense, and he's 200lbs".
Agreed. Both were much more frank and candid. No attempts to sugar coat the situation.
Can you get a medical redshirt for a groin injury? Seems dubious but if he's going to be gimpy all season, just redshirt him. I'd invest that time in other freshmen and let Jacob come back next season healthy with three years of eligibility remaining.
Based on his medical degree? Groin injuries heal. #Science
There’s no evidence that Gilly playing in the second half of the Wyoming game made anything worse. There’s plenty to get on Mooney about, there’s no need to blame injuries on him as well.
Continually re-aggravating a groin injury before it is fully healed can make it a recurring long-term problem. I make my statement confidently upon good authority
** I have no idea whether JOC has ever played the game with a groin injury or not.
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It will heal but it's one of those soft tissue deals that you have to be sure its definitely 100% before returning because even at 80% theres are real chance to re-injure it particularly when you are doing a lot of quick change of motion/direction "Point Guard" type movements. I'm no doctor but I've had a similar injury...takes quite a bit of time to recover and you definitely don't want to rush back.
He didn't really own it. He actually tried to lay some of it at the feet of the "message boards" always complaining that "good coaches always leave" so he felt pressure to do it. He made his "if you extend a guy and you lose, you look like an idiot" comment separate of that....but he didn't link that comment to the situation with Chris Mooney. Technically, Mooney is still >.500 since the extension, and I'm sure he would have pointed that out if pressed on it.
This, I think. It doesn't sound to me like our current or former AD think the situation is as dire as the vast majority of SpiderNation.
Jacob will play through it when he's able, but he'll be at a percentage of his capabilities and hoping not to make it worse.
ideally, you always wait for every injured player to recover 100%. it's just not reality though at any level where wins and losses count.
ideally, you always wait for every injured player to recover 100%. it's just not reality though at any level where wins and losses count.
LOL. We were so happy he was leaving we negotiated a lower buyout just to get rid of him. Mic drop.
This isn’t news but still funny to hear it put like that. I only had a couple interactions w Miller but 1 was around that wainwright to DePaul time. Not being an ole jer fan I basically said F it let him leave who cares. A little more professional than that I guess but point was still clear. But then I caught myself & was like u know that was emotional & not my business blah blah. Miller was like No No you r exactly right.
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The fact that Gilly hasn't played since the Wyoming game is all the evidence you need to say Gilly should have in no way played the 2nd half of Wyoming. He got hurt, played hurt, and now can't play. If he pulls his groin in the A-10 tourney, than yeah maybe you play him, but to try to play him through a groin injury in a meaningless November game is malpractice in my book by our athletic trainers.
From a quick google search on treatment of groin injuries:
Recovery time also depends on the severity of the injury. A mild groin strain may recover within a few weeks, whereas a severe injury may take 6 weeks or longer to recover. You need to stop doing the activities that cause pain until the groin has healed.
So, yeah, playing a kid with a groin injury in the 2nd half goes against the very basic medical treatment for such an injury.
I distinctly remember Mooney playing Ced with injury during Wake game. He was limping around on the court, and it cost us the game as well.
They should not jeopardize Gilly at all. My limited experience with a groan strain, I rushed it, I wanted to play and it made it worse and, it kept recurring and took much longer healing. He's too important and another game or two isn't going to make any difference this year.
Player development is what we're playing for.
Player development is what we're playing for.
On November 12 on Black and Drew (the impetus for this thread):
Drew: "Things are getting worse......this is turning into a bleepshow.....if the Spiders don't emerge from non-conference play with an .800 winning percentage, I'm going to start calling for Chris Mooney's job."
I haven't heard him call for Chris Mooney's job yet....have you?
Drew: "Things are getting worse......this is turning into a bleepshow.....if the Spiders don't emerge from non-conference play with an .800 winning percentage, I'm going to start calling for Chris Mooney's job."
I haven't heard him call for Chris Mooney's job yet....have you?
I remember that as well. Was that the same year, Ced went down with the knee injury.
Maybe he meant at the end of the OOC, not when .800 isn’t possible anymore?
I'll tune in December 31st.
Waiting until the New Year holiday would be very courteous. The Mooneys' tax preparer won't have to deal with multiple W-2s.
Yes, I was at Fordham that year and Ced went down with what appeared to be a game ending knee injury. SDJ came in and lit it up. Moonster put a limping Ced back in. Bad, bad, bad.
I’ll take the bait.
Gilly not playing the last 2 games is not evidence that he shouldn’t have played the second half of the Wyoming game. It’s evidence that he has a pulled groin. There’s is no evidence that he injured the groin further in the second half of the game (which would be the reason not to play). An hour or so extra rest is insignificant to the 6 weeks you quoted it takes to heal.
Furthermore, you were quoting JOC that Gilly wasn’t going to be 100% the entire year. A quick google search showed me that 6 weeks from the injury is Jan 2, which is not the end of the season.
So there is no evidence that playing Gilly in the second half of the Wyoming game further injured the groin, and furthermore, if he was to sit out the estimated 6 weeks for a mild groin strain, he’d be back for the beginning of A10 play.
Also if they can get the house on the market prior to year end and maybe into a rental for the new year, it would make things much easier with the mortgage interest for 2018 ... and then onto the new, higher standard deduction for 2019.
JOC was saying in context that Gilly relies so much on his quickness as part of his game and that the groin is always going to be something given the way he plays the game there will always be a chance that it gets reinjured or tweaked. 6 weeks is normal heal time but Gilly is a college athlete who will be using that muscle so much more than the average person who injures his groin.
Still don't see the sense in playing someone with an injured groin. And I was not referencing an extra hour of rest but an extra hour of playing competitive D-1 basketball on an already injured groin certainly did not make that injury better, at best didn't help the situation, and at worst made the injury worse.
As fans we look at the "normal" estimated recovery time for injuries and always like to use that as a given and then think that the guy is an athlete so he may be back on the faster end of the scale. Certainly possible but a groin injury is really tricky especially for a guy like Gillyard whose whole game is based on sudden change of direction, anticipation, and lateral explosiveness. Similar to a defensive back dealing with a toe injury...these guys run the risk of re-injury by just playing their regular way. Hopefully we don't rush Gilly back and when he comes back he can be confident and back to his old self.
Seems like some large assumptions by JOC. I don’t necessarily disagree that a groin can be a nagging injury, especially if not given the time to properly heal, but to expect Gilly not to be 100% all year is a pretty large leap. As I originally stated, groins heal.
As a non-medical professional, I would expect an elite athlete like Gilly to recover quicker than the average mortal. This assumes he actually lets it heal, as he has the past week.
I understand your insinuation that Gilly’s groin was made worse by the second half. I just disagree that there is any evidence that it was further injured playing in that second half.
I can however agree that playing him in the second half didn’t help the situation and mah have even put Gilly at more risk (even if I disagree that that anything bad actually occurred). I can also agree with JOC that if Gilly doesn’t let the groin heal properly it could bother him all year. But that’s different than your original comment that said JOC expects Gilly not to be 100% all year (especially when there’s evidence that they’re letting Gilly heal up) and that playing in the second half had an impact on the severity of the injury (which there is no evidence it did).
as we're not an at-large type team, our goal should now be to win the A10.
2nd goal is to win the A10 tournament. 3rd and lowest bar goal is to qualify for the A10 tournament. those are the only things that matter now.
so I'm in favor of resting Jacob for a couple more weeks if it will help. half speed Jacob like in the Wyoming game is of no use to us anyway. need him near 100% to accomplish anything this season.
but I expect him to play Saturday. he's extremely competitive and feels he can help his team.
2nd goal is to win the A10 tournament. 3rd and lowest bar goal is to qualify for the A10 tournament. those are the only things that matter now.
so I'm in favor of resting Jacob for a couple more weeks if it will help. half speed Jacob like in the Wyoming game is of no use to us anyway. need him near 100% to accomplish anything this season.
but I expect him to play Saturday. he's extremely competitive and feels he can help his team.
From my years in the business school, I don't think you're missing anything. I think we learned in Monk's Math that groin injuries will heal with rest.
Maybe he thinks 2-3 of our losses will be forfeited back to us due to competitor malfeasance...
well Sman, this is the crap bed Mooney made, now he is living in it. Yes, in fact he is the head man and should take responsibility.
I know a lot of folks on this board hate UNC basketball, but go look up the quotes from Roy Williams after the real JB pulled down his pants and spanked him in primetime. "My Coaching Sucks" Worst coaching job in 31 years etc.
Not saying Mooney has to do this all the time (because that would be a lot). But he is the biggest media baby I have seen in all my fandom. That is what makes our slide even more annoying.
I know a lot of folks on this board hate UNC basketball, but go look up the quotes from Roy Williams after the real JB pulled down his pants and spanked him in primetime. "My Coaching Sucks" Worst coaching job in 31 years etc.
Not saying Mooney has to do this all the time (because that would be a lot). But he is the biggest media baby I have seen in all my fandom. That is what makes our slide even more annoying.
For those of you that want Gilyard to medical redshirt if he's not going to be 100%, there is no guarantee he will play his 5th year with the Spiders. Just like there is no guarantee that Grant and Nick will play their 5th year with the Spiders. Unless he is really that hurt, he should come back this year.
No guarantee either of them will even suit up next year for us. I'm sure they want to win and our program is more about competing.
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