Just curious

[spiderman]

So your answer is just shut up and send a check?

if you feel not going to the games will force the change you want, then clearly you shouldn't go.
if you feel not giving the program any of your money will force the change you want, then clearly you shouldn't give them your money.
if you feel bombarding the university with complaints about the coach and the direction of the program will force the change you want, then do that.
heck, walk a picket line at games if it's a cause you feel strongly about. do whatever you want!

but I personally believe the LEAST effective thing anyone here can do if you want change is to repeatedly post negatively on this message board. doing so because your voice is supposedly being heard is laughable.

I follow this team because I enjoy it. even when they only win 23 games like last year. even this year ... somehow. when I no longer enjoy it, I'll stop. come to think of it, that's how I feel about this board. used to enjoy it a lot more! but on occasion I still find something to keep me coming back.

 

[spider23]

spiderman, I have been directly told that the staff reads our posts.

 

[spider23]

So at the least this is a good outlet to let our opinions known and vent to Mooney.

 

[spiderman]

spiderman, I have been directly told that the staff reads our posts.

awesome. someone on the staff reads this.
that doesn't enact a coaching change in any way. not even close.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

The Broccoli family will not be buying any tickets. The business I run (which is 100% Spider-owned) will also not hold MBB season tickets or do any advertising in basketball season. There are just better ways to spend the money.

I'm under no illusion that it will make the least bit of difference, but it's really the only vote we have. If it was in the budget, we'd give to every single discretionary fund except Men's Basketball. I still doubt the message would be received.

The little florets are Spiderlings, so we'll get an allotment of free games, plus I have plenty of friends, colleagues and clients who will invite us to the occasional game. I will still root for the team to win every game, and hope the new players pan out - it'll just mostly be on TV.

 

[VT4700]

spiderman, I have been directly told that the staff reads our posts.

You are kidding, right? If not, we would have maybe the only staff in the country that reads and cares what message boards say. And, as a result, I would have lost a lot of respect for our staff.

Have you seen pretty much all other message boards? Every single one of them has its share of negative fans that will complain about anything. Even the most successful teams out there. Coaches realize this. They do not care what you, I or anyone else says on a message board.

 

[ur2K]

Do you guys think Chris Mooney is a good coach - taking the contract out of the equation?

 

[spider23]

Pray tell Spiderman, what should we be doing to help enact a coaching change? You are full of good ideas that will not work, what would you suggest.

 

[spider23]

You are kidding, right? If not, we would have maybe the only staff in the country that reads and cares what message boards say. And, as a result, I would have lost a lot of respect for our staff.

Have you seen pretty much all other message boards? Every single one of them has its share of negative fans that will complain about anything. Even the most successful teams out there. Coaches realize this. They do not care what you, I or anyone else says on a message board.

Not kIDiNg!

 

[97spiderfan]

Not kIDiNg!

I have literally been in the Robins Center seeing some on our coaching staff referencing posts on the board. Yes, they read the board.

Maybe they have initiated a self ban now because they know they have big flaming pile of poo on their hands. Mooney cares what others think, otherwise why would he get his panties all in a bind when asked a question about the status of the program?

 

[fan2011]

Do you guys think Chris Mooney is a good coach - taking the contract out of the equation?

I have done a lot of analysis on this, and the conclusion that I have found again and again is that Richmond's talent level under Mooney has been extremely low relative to the rest of the A10, but Richmond seems to get much more out its players than it "should" on a consistent basis.

Richmond currently ranks 13th in the A10 for average player ratings (http://www.verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10). These ratings can have huge variance on an individual player level, but as a team wide statistic they are predictive of performance. We have been in the bottom 4 of the A10 in terms of talent level for as long as I have been following recruiting. Just looking at the past 7 years, Mooney has won ~53% of A10 games, where the expected win % based on the recruited talent level is ~30%. The difference between expected and actual performance is extremely large for Mooney.

This is the crux of the situation. Even though Mooney's teams outperform their talent levels, they have not been able to completely make up for the lack of talent. Recruiting is part of being a good coach, so the question for me has been is the recruiting problem completely on Mooney? Or are there institutional barriers that have hampered Mooney? If there are institutional barriers, how big are they and could a different coach overcome them? Are we working towards getting rid of these barriers if they exist (practice facility, new AD, etc)? These are all questions that I really don't think any of us know the answer to.

If the recruiting problem is mostly on Mooney I would say on the whole he is not a good coach since his recruiting deficiencies overshadow the aspects of coaching which he is good at (and since he gets more out of his players than he should I do think he is good at other aspects of coaching).

This is a very cold, mathematical view of Mooney's coaching based on a simple empirical model of team talent level vs team performance and it could be completely wrong, but it is the lens through which I view things. I'm looking forward to seeing some analysis from other posters on the board.

 

[spiderman]

Pray tell Spiderman, what should we be doing to help enact a coaching change? You are full of good ideas that will not work, what would you suggest.

I thought I laid it out already. the one that has no chance of working is daily complaints on a message board.

complaining directly to decision makers can have an effect. not supporting the team can have an effect either with your donations or attendance, if you're willing to do that even though it has a negative effect on the current members of the team and school.

but really, unless you have the money I don't think firing is an option yet. the school can't write that big check. I can't think of a school outside the P5 that writes that check. and I've seen posted here that we can because we have a lot of money, which just shows a lack of understanding of how an endowment works.

 

[ur2K]

I have done a lot of analysis on this, and the conclusion that I have found again and again is that Richmond's talent level under Mooney has been extremely low relative to the rest of the A10, but Richmond seems to get much more out its players than it "should" on a consistent basis.

Richmond currently ranks 13th in the A10 for average player ratings (http://www.verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10). These ratings can have huge variance on an individual player level, but as a team wide statistic they are predictive of performance. We have been in the bottom 4 of the A10 in terms of talent level for as long as I have been following recruiting. Just looking at the past 7 years, Mooney has won ~53% of A10 games, where the expected win % based on the recruited talent level is ~30%. The difference between expected and actual performance is extremely large for Mooney.

This is the crux of the situation. Even though Mooney's teams outperform their talent levels, they have not been able to completely make up for the lack of talent. Recruiting is part of being a good coach, so the question for me has been is the recruiting problem completely on Mooney? Or are there institutional barriers that have hampered Mooney? If there are institutional barriers, how big are they and could a different coach overcome them? Are we working towards getting rid of these barriers if they exist (practice facility, new AD, etc)? These are all questions that I really don't think any of us know the answer to.

If the recruiting problem is mostly on Mooney I would say on the whole he is not a good coach since his recruiting deficiencies overshadow the aspects of coaching which he is good at (and since he gets more out of his players than he should I do think he is good at other aspects of coaching).

This is a very cold, mathematical view of Mooney's coaching based on a simple empirical model of team talent level vs team performance and it could be completely wrong, but it is the lens through which I view things. I'm looking forward to seeing some analysis from other posters on the board.

Very helpful analysis. Seems to me that we’re trying to run systems that we don’t recruit particularly well for - especially on defense where the defense works well with interchangeable parts.

Offense has evolved beyond the traditional PO but could be even better with better shooting.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

I was (foolishly) hoping Andrew would ask Miller about the contract, and whether he felt that was an impediment to moving on from Mooney. He has said that Miller has refused to answer questions about the contract in the past.

I can't remember the last significant OOC win at the Robins Center. The NIT games, I suppose - but those were teams that also couldn't garner an at-large bid. Is the LVI game against Cal the signature win of the past 7 years? That team had a phony #14 ranking at the time (seriously, look up the teams they built their 4-0 record against, and they had already lost to SDSt in the tourney - if the rankings had been updated between games they'd have dropped).

spiderman is right - until the clamor comes from those much further up the Spider Club food chain, it ain't happening. And there is no clamoring. They have all moved into the Acceptance stage of grief. Those of us here are hanging out in Denial, Anger, Bargaining or Depression.

 

[I-M-UR]

Do you guys think Chris Mooney is a good coach - taking the contract out of the equation?

For me he's basically had a 500 record in the a10 since the contract started. So he's mediocre in a mediocre conference. I don't think that was the expectation when we signed the deal. It wasn't too long ago we were hoping for an invite to the Big East, now that thought is laughable. So define 'good'

You can make your overall record look good through scheduling OOC but it's hard to hide your record in conference.

 

[VT4700]

I have literally been in the Robins Center seeing some on our coaching staff referencing posts on the board. Yes, they read the board.

Maybe they have initiated a self ban now because they know they have big flaming pile of poo on their hands. Mooney cares what others think, otherwise why would he get his panties all in a bind when asked a question about the status of the program?

Sorry, but I will choose to not believe this. I will not call you a liar, but instead will give you the benefit of the doubt in that this is what you think you heard. Sure, Mooney cares what some people think (boosters, his AD), but no way does he care what a bunch of message board "fans" think.

 

[Ulla1]

The Broccoli family will not be buying any tickets. The business I run (which is 100% Spider-owned) will also not hold MBB season tickets or do any advertising in basketball season. There are just better ways to spend the money.

I'm under no illusion that it will make the least bit of difference, but it's really the only vote we have. If it was in the budget, we'd give to every single discretionary fund except Men's Basketball. I still doubt the message would be received.

The little florets are Spiderlings, so we'll get an allotment of free games, plus I have plenty of friends, colleagues and clients who will invite us to the occasional game. I will still root for the team to win every game, and hope the new players pan out - it'll just mostly be on TV.

Broc, don’t attend! Outstanding! Thank God and Greyhound you’re gone!

 

[fan2011]

I was (foolishly) hoping Andrew would ask Miller about the contract, and whether he felt that was an impediment to moving on from Mooney. He has said that Miller has refused to answer questions about the contract in the past.

I can't remember the last significant OOC win at the Robins Center. The NIT games, I suppose - but those were teams that also couldn't garner an at-large bid. Is the LVI game against Cal the signature win of the past 7 years? That team had a phony #14 ranking at the time (seriously, look up the teams they built their 4-0 record against, and they had already lost to SDSt in the tourney - if the rankings had been updated between games they'd have dropped).

spiderman is right - until the clamor comes from those much further up the Spider Club food chain, it ain't happening. And there is no clamoring. They have all moved into the Acceptance stage of grief. Those of us here are hanging out in Denial, Anger, Bargaining or Depression.

That Cal team ended up with a 4 seed and was packed with NBA players. They were a very legit team, #14 ranking was not far off. Pretty sure Mooney is close to or above .500 against ranked opponents, which is pretty crazy.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Broc, don’t attend! Outstanding! Thank God and Greyhound you’re gone!

Interesting response. I didn't say I wouldn't attend. We cheer loud and proud when we do.
Odd that you'd want to run off former Spider athletes who are still big supporters of Spider athletics as a whole.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

That Cal team ended up with a 4 seed and was packed with NBA players. They were a very legit team, #14 ranking was not far off. Pretty sure Mooney is close to or above .500 against ranked opponents, which is pretty crazy.

That team had a lot of talent, no doubt about it! However, they were unranked as soon as they lost to us (6th game) and didn't regain the top 25 until the Pac10/12 tourney. What did they do with that 4 seed again?

I miss the days where we'd pull off an upset against our marquee OOC opponents. I genuinely feel bad for recent grads/students who haven't had the experience. It's a lot of fun.

Pretty sure almost all (or all?) of our RC wins against ranked opponents have been Atlantic 10 games. That's still great. But I think we should all expect the occasional home win against the top teams in the conference.

 

[Ulla1]

Interesting response. I didn't say I wouldn't attend. We cheer loud and proud when we do.
Odd that you'd want to run off former Spider athletes who are still big supporters of Spider athletics as a whole.

Broc, based on your posts, you are done with the Spiders. No way I would chase away a fellow Spider. Maybe you should change the tenor of your posts. Go Spiders!

 

[whampas]

Broc, based on your posts, you are done with the Spiders. No way I would chase away a fellow Spider. Maybe you should change the tenor of your posts. Go Spiders!

Mirror.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Broc, based on your posts, you are done with the Spiders. No way I would chase away a fellow Spider. Maybe you should change the tenor of your posts. Go Spiders!

Maybe you should pay closer attention.
I bleed Red & Blue. LONG-time football ST holder. We go to LAX, baseball, women's BB; heck, we're even in the tiny contingent that attend S&D meets!

I'd like nothing more than to see a return to glory for MBB. I don't think the program's current leader is the one to get us there. It is possible, you know, for someone to love the Spiders and still believe that.

 

[Ulla1]

Maybe you should pay closer attention.
I bleed Red & Blue. LONG-time football ST holder. We go to LAX, baseball, women's BB; heck, we're even in the tiny contingent that attend S&D meets!

I'd like nothing more than to see a return to glory for MBB. I don't think the program's current leader is the one to get us there. It is possible, you know, for someone to love the Spiders and still believe that.

Broc, my wishes are the same as yours. But I feel it is not my decision who coaches our basketball team. I will support all of our teams regardless.

 

[iSpider]

I was (foolishly) hoping Andrew would ask Miller about the contract, and whether he felt that was an impediment to moving on from Mooney. He has said that Miller has refused to answer questions about the contract in the past.

I can't remember the last significant OOC win at the Robins Center. The NIT games, I suppose - but those were teams that also couldn't garner an at-large bid. Is the LVI game against Cal the signature win of the past 7 years? That team had a phony #14 ranking at the time (seriously, look up the teams they built their 4-0 record against, and they had already lost to SDSt in the tourney - if the rankings had been updated between games they'd have dropped).

spiderman is right - until the clamor comes from those much further up the Spider Club food chain, it ain't happening. And there is no clamoring. They have all moved into the Acceptance stage of grief. Those of us here are hanging out in Denial, Anger, Bargaining or Depression.

Man, that is one depressing outlook. I hope that you are wrong.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

Man, that is one depressing outlook. I hope that you are wrong.

Only if you're in the Depression stage.

 

[MrTbone]

this astounds me.
I get you want Mooney fired. but you think reducing revenue will speed that up? and making it a worse environment for the players and students is the answer?

again ... if it was just firing a guy, that would be easy. it's firing a guy AND paying him millions to leave, and paying a new guy. I don't know where you think that money comes from. we aren't allowed to use the endowment for it. you all know that, right? are you ponying it up? I'm not. you want to take $4 mil out of out athletic budget for next year? are you asking PQ or some other big donor?

you guys call for CM to be fired, and blame everyone from the AD to the most generous donors we have to the "complacent" fans for not getting it done. yet you don't answer the question of how we pay the buyout.

start up a GoFundMe or something. if you want him gone so bad, you need to raise a lot of money.

There is a bit of a catch22 here. If ticket sales are strong, it’s a tacit approval of the performance. And lower ticket sales means we have less money to contribute towards a buyout.

I’m not convinced that we are pocketbook voters as fans and even less convinced that our Administration is evaluating CM critically if attendance goes down.

It would take a massive shift in attendance coupled with a public campaign stating the fans won’t come back until there’s a change that might get someone to take notice.

 

[MrTbone]

Sorry, but I will choose to not believe this. I will not call you a liar, but instead will give you the benefit of the doubt in that this is what you think you heard. Sure, Mooney cares what some people think (boosters, his AD), but no way does he care what a bunch of message board "fans" think.

Only sociopaths don’t care if they’re liked. If he reads, he probably doesn’t care enough to change how he operates, but I suspect he in fact cares.

 

[ChoppinBroccoli]

There is a bit of a catch22 here. If ticket sales are strong, it’s a tacit approval of the performance. And lower ticket sales means we have less money to contribute towards a buyout.

I’m not convinced that we are pocketbook voters as fans and even less convinced that our Administration is evaluating CM critically if attendance goes down.

It would take a massive shift in attendance coupled with a public campaign stating the fans won’t come back until there’s a change that might get someone to take notice.

Yep. That's why I said I don't think it'll make a bit of difference. But I can tell the IMG guys why we won't advertise for MBB, and hope they pass on the message. Still won't matter; we're small potatoes - we'd need a lot more potatoes to generate the grease. (sorry)

 

[SpiderK]

There is a bit of a catch22 here. If ticket sales are strong, it’s a tacit approval of the performance. And lower ticket sales means we have less money to contribute towards a buyout.

I’m not convinced that we are pocketbook voters as fans and even less convinced that our Administration is evaluating CM critically if attendance goes down.

It would take a massive shift in attendance coupled with a public campaign stating the fans won’t come back until there’s a change that might get someone to take notice.

Two things there.
1: I hate to penalize my family by not buying tickets to something we all love to do together to prove a point. I understand the theory completely, but it’s much more important to me than say boycotting Starbucks.

2: The otherside is, Pittsburgh had an empty arena all year and fans got the desired results.

 

[AnnapSpider]

I have done a lot of analysis on this, and the conclusion that I have found again and again is that Richmond's talent level under Mooney has been extremely low relative to the rest of the A10, but Richmond seems to get much more out its players than it "should" on a consistent basis.

Richmond currently ranks 13th in the A10 for average player ratings (http://www.verbalcommits.com/conferences/atlantic-10). These ratings can have huge variance on an individual player level, but as a team wide statistic they are predictive of performance. We have been in the bottom 4 of the A10 in terms of talent level for as long as I have been following recruiting. Just looking at the past 7 years, Mooney has won ~53% of A10 games, where the expected win % based on the recruited talent level is ~30%. The difference between expected and actual performance is extremely large for Mooney.

This is the crux of the situation. Even though Mooney's teams outperform their talent levels, they have not been able to completely make up for the lack of talent. Recruiting is part of being a good coach, so the question for me has been is the recruiting problem completely on Mooney? Or are there institutional barriers that have hampered Mooney? If there are institutional barriers, how big are they and could a different coach overcome them? Are we working towards getting rid of these barriers if they exist (practice facility, new AD, etc)? These are all questions that I really don't think any of us know the answer to.

If the recruiting problem is mostly on Mooney I would say on the whole he is not a good coach since his recruiting deficiencies overshadow the aspects of coaching which he is good at (and since he gets more out of his players than he should I do think he is good at other aspects of coaching).

This is a very cold, mathematical view of Mooney's coaching based on a simple empirical model of team talent level vs team performance and it could be completely wrong, but it is the lens through which I view things. I'm looking forward to seeing some analysis from other posters on the board.

Have you lost your mind? Putting logic and numerical notations in a review of our program? That has to be borderline blasphemy or something.

 

[MrTbone]

Yep. That's why I said I don't think it'll make a bit of difference. But I can tell the IMG guys why we won't advertise for MBB, and hope they pass on the message. Still won't matter; we're small potatoes - we'd need a lot more potatoes to generate the grease. (sorry)

There’s certainly more impact to being a corporate (non)-sponsor. I applaud your commitment.

As I’ve mentioned before, I go to enjoy the games and get out of the house. It pains me to see us suck but I’ll still go. If someone mounted a serious campaign that had the legs to really get the AD to consider changing horses, I could potentially be convinced.

 

[Eight Legger]

There is a bit of a catch22 here. If ticket sales are strong, it’s a tacit approval of the performance. And lower ticket sales means we have less money to contribute towards a buyout.

I’m not convinced that we are pocketbook voters as fans and even less convinced that our Administration is evaluating CM critically if attendance goes down.

It would take a massive shift in attendance coupled with a public campaign stating the fans won’t come back until there’s a change that might get someone to take notice.

This is what gets me. How many upper level Division I programs operate this way? I mean how do we expect anyone to take us seriously when we do? It's just insanity, like we're screaming into the abyss and no one hears us.

 

[MrTbone]

This is what gets me. How many upper level Division I programs operate this way? I mean how do we expect anyone to take us seriously when we do? It's just insanity, like we're screaming into the abyss and no one hears us.

How do you mean? Is your comment directed that UR may not meaningfully consider ticket revenue?

I expect we aren’t unique. I imagine a lot of programs operate at a loss. But I suspect they are predominantly in mid major conferences.

 

[Ulla1]

How do you mean? Is your comment directed that UR may not meaningfully consider ticket revenue?

I expect we aren’t unique. I imagine a lot of programs operate at a loss. But I suspect they are predominantly in mid major conferences.

UR is in a mid major conference.

 

[Eight Legger]

How do you mean? Is your comment directed that UR may not meaningfully consider ticket revenue?

I expect we aren’t unique. I imagine a lot of programs operate at a loss. But I suspect they are predominantly in mid major conferences.

Mostly was directed at your last paragraph, which I unfortunately agree with... The idea that short of some kind of massive boycott, we will just proceed merrily along regardless of what is happening on the court, with relative indifference, because that's how we operate a an athletic department. Sad but true.

I'm rapidly reaching the point of apathy.

 

[whampas]

Mostly was directed at your last paragraph, which I unfortunately agree with... The idea that short of some kind of massive boycott, we will just proceed merrily along regardless of what is happening on the court, with relative indifference, because that's how we operate a an athletic department. Sad but true.

I'm rapidly reaching the point of apathy.

Come over to the gray side.

 

[72Spider]

UR is in a mid major conference.

Wrong

 

[Ulla1]

Wrong

https://herosports.com/college-basketball/mid-major-ncaa-tournament-gonzaga-rhode-island-nevada-cncn

 

[97spiderfan]

Come over to the gray side.

The problem with a boycott or not showing up for games is that we give so many tickets away for literally nothing that it won't make a dent. It's not like we are VCU where we are getting $25 or $50 bucks a seat every night. Many of our seats are given away free, in large groups for reduced prices or for like $5 so we have a good environment and attendance.

If were were selling all of our tickets at face value, we probably would be averaging about 3,000 a game, instead of 6,000.

I'm considering not renewing my season tickets next year, just as a statement that I am dissatisfied. That won't move the needle one iota, I know that, but perhaps my conscious will feel better. As K, said though, my kids love going to the game and it something we enjoy doing as a family, so I'm trying to weigh those two. The reality is if I don't renew my season tickets is I could still go to every game and end up paying a lot less through the Kids Club and the cheap tickets that are available for every game, save the VCU game.